It's better to invest in the 14-54 or in the new E-510?

I currently have mine beloved E-300... what do you think.. it's better to update to E-510 (gaining IS and maybe better photo qualitry) or invest on the mighty 14-54?
New camera or new lens?

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Alessandro
http://www.myfourthirds.com/user.php?id=1804&page=user_images

Personally I would go for the lens. It really is a brilliant lens and I used one with my E300 for a year and got fantastic results. I never even considered replacing the camera with a 510 although it has some nice new features. Instead I kept the E300 and bought an E1 as well.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/jdloudon/

If the E300 has been working superbly for you - which BTW, it is a wonderful camera and has often been underrated - then getting the 14-54 will make a world of difference. Getting the E510 will NOT net you a night and day difference in more definition or IQ (other than a better high ISO response). In fact, the color tonality changes a bit as the E510 uses a Panny sensor. The utterly rich, dynamic Kodak CCD in the E300 can result in some downright stunning colors. The E510 has stunning colors also - but they are a tad different (which is not a bad thing).

Having said that - I have both, and the E300 is not leaving the collection. Other than the very small LCD - I am reminded at how wonderful the IQ is from this camera.

Now if "upgrading" means you want additional gadgets and functions - with some being downright useful (IS), then yes... the E510 will be worth the effort. But I'll tell you again - you'd be very sorry if you got rid of your E300. IMO - the 14-54 would be the best upgrade, but only you would have to reason that one out.

Here are some E300/14-54 images taken last year with this wonderful combo:

















ISO 800 with this combo:



Good shooting...

Ben

Ben Herrmann said:

you a night and day difference in more definition or IQ

Click to expand...

If you shoot RAW this is true but in JPG the difference is like comparing a Post office bicycle to a Fireblade

Ben Herrmann said:

The E510
has stunning colors also - but they are a tad different (which is not
a bad thing).

Click to expand...

I'm finding this panny sensor to give a kind of Fuji edge to the colour - almost S3-Pro like only punchier with far less Dynamic range

Ben Herrmann said:

worth the effort. But I'll tell you again - you'd be very sorry if
you got rid of your E300.

Click to expand...

Hmmm, Not sure about that - if I'd had an E300 and upgraded to a 510 i'd miss it like a hole in the head - E1 Different Story, E500, Maybe a bit (for the Colour in Master or Studio) but definately NOT the Ghetto cam.

If the guy likes the E300 and shoots RAW then the 14-54 (or better still possibly the 12-60) is a good move but if he's shooting JPG, it'll just be faster as any advantage will be melted out with the 300's JPG engine

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Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

I have the 14-54, but if I would not have it, I would wait for the 12-60, or buy the Leica 14-50, or wait for the 14-35. If you want to spend your money now for lenses, buy the 11-22, this lens will be a keeper even if you at some time decide for the 12-60 or 14-35.

If you want to spend your money on bodies, perhaps a e-330 is also an option, but i think it will not easy available in europe if you search for a new one. of cause the e-510 has better high-iso performance than the e330, but why not wait for the next e-510-or-e330-level camera because this one will perhaps also have better focussing during live view than the e-510 and better high-iso than the e-330
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regards
Martin

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Typing errors are intended to provide a basis for global amusement.

Despite I love my Olympus DSLRs, I would like to have a Samsung forum here on dpreview because they have interresting new pocket cams. And I would like to have a digital medium format forum, and I would like to have a Fourthirds System forum which includes PanaLeica.

I would take advantage of the low E330 prices these days. It shouldn't be too difficult to pick up a good mint used example.

Then you have not only an excellent upgrade to the E300, (lower noise at higher ISO, no metering issues, no WB issues, no nasty JPG problems) - but you have new creative possibilities using the tilting LCD, and the option of using LiveView Modes A and B. Don't forget that LiveView on the E510 is nothing like E330 LV Mode A....

You might also have the funds to buy a mint used 14-54 and know that this kit will not only get you superb image quality, but will not lose you money in the future.

All you miss out on is IS - but you need to ask yourself if that is so important - and you can always use a tripod for those low light moments.
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Kind regards,
Rich Simpson

If not, get a new, yes NEW, one from Cameta for $130 with hood. Or you can bid there or with Olympus Auctions and maybe get for less. You will be pleased. I finally got one a couple of months ago and kick myself for not paying the extra $100 to get the 2-lens kit when I purchased my E300.
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'There is a spontaneous, pure expression that is unique to photography.' - Maitani



http://www.flickr.com/photos/zuikonian/

I've not had a problem with it - perhaps I had a good copy.
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Good shooting...

Ben

Ben Herrmann said:

I've not had a problem with it - perhaps I had a good copy.

Click to expand...

They didn't vary in the Noise filter smearing between samples - remember, you were as unimpressed as the rest of us in December 2004 ..

Remember these from back then.. The JPG engine was Disgusting, milles behind the E510 or even the E500 come to that !





--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

Firstly wanna compliment Ben for his wonderful photos... then the 12-60 is out of question since it will cost over 1000 euros... frankly too much for me.

The only option I have is the 14-54 that I'm dreaming from years... it seems speedier (autofocus) it collects more light, unfortunately it does seem to do little in terms of IQ.

With the E-510 there is not only the IS, there is the better auto-exposure/metering (I work in RAW but sometimes have to compensate for over 1 stop... I think that probably doing this I lose something about colors and shades, am I wrong?). Maybe with difficult ambient light the E-510 does perform better?

It's a difficult decision to do... I'm now more toward the 14-54 but if you want to enlarge the discussion it would be appreciated.

Thanks to all for your support.

P.S. for Ben: I too think that the E-300 is a great piece of a camera, perhaps it is 'old' from an engineering stand-point, the E-510 to me seems more 'optimized' in electronics and ergonomics. Anyway I'm more than happy with it, would change only for an Olympus.
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Alessandro
http://www.myfourthirds.com/user.php?id=1804&page=user_images

Tetsuro said:

The only option I have is the 14-54 that I'm dreaming from years...
it seems speedier (autofocus) it collects more light, unfortunately
it does seem to do little in terms of IQ.

Click to expand...

Agree! I have not yet seen any comparison samples convincing me that the IQ is that much better than a good copy kit lens.

Tetsuro said:

With the E-510 there is not only the IS, there is the better
auto-exposure/metering (I work in RAW but sometimes have to
compensate for over 1 stop... I think that probably doing this I lose
something about colors and shades, am I wrong?). Maybe with difficult
ambient light the E-510 does perform better?

Click to expand...

IS, better ISO, faster focusing, Live View, these are all important upgrades from the E-300... and it sure looks better too!

Tetsuro said:

It's a difficult decision to do... I'm now more toward the 14-54 but
if you want to enlarge the discussion it would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

IF I was to pick between the 14-54 and the E-510 it would be the new body without a second thought.

Tetsuro said:

Thanks to all for your support.

P.S. for Ben: I too think that the E-300 is a great piece of a
camera, perhaps it is 'old' from an engineering stand-point, the
E-510 to me seems more 'optimized' in electronics and ergonomics.
Anyway I'm more than happy with it, would change only for an Olympus.
--
Alessandro
http://www.myfourthirds.com/user.php?id=1804&page=user_images

Click to expand...

--
Equipment in profile.

1. My original E300 was sold and a year later I picked up another one (the one I kept).

2. Although I shoot RAW exclusively, I did shoot some scenes with SHQ - worrying about how they will look. But I found them to be quite satisfactory - more so than with the copy I first had. So my attitude has changed about the JPG's coming out of the camera.

It's that simple...

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Good shooting...

Ben

the E-300's output with firmware 1.3.

Perhaps you had a bad lens copy at the time because even the ACR/Master samples are far softer than what you'd expect from this camera.

if you have a good copy of the kit lens then you won't miss much in terms of IQ.

A new body will give you far more pleasure.

don't get me wrong, I thought the kit lens was pretty good, but I think the difference in IQ is considerable. And that extra f/stop makes the E500 handle MUCH better in low light.

That being said, this is not a blanket endorsement of getting the lens instead of a new body, it really all depends on which things cause you to miss shots or cause other aggravations.
--
STOP Global Stasis! Change is good!

Now that you've judged the quality of my typing, take a look at my photos. . .
http://www.photo.net/photos/GlenBarrington

While I really like my E-510 camera compared to my E-300, bigger LCD, nice menu, faster write times to CF card, lighter body, faster focus ... I would not say the IQ is significantly better. The jump form 8mp to 10mp isn't a big deal, as I've printed 24x36 inch prints from my E-300 and they came out very clean.

The E-510 has better low light IQ performance and good IQ in relatively even lighting. The E-300 gives me better contrast and better DR in high contrast lighting ... less blown highlights with my E-300. In fact, I find I'm constantly working the image more to deal with extreme contrast issues with the E-510 compared to my E-300 ... it's really frustrating. I'm having to shoot bracket exposure more or adjust the EV setting to underexpose and push the exposure in postproduction. If I had to do it again, I would be very hesitant about buy the E-510 and wish I had waited to see E-3 come out.

Get the lens ... although I'm not sure if 14-54 would be my first choice, but I guess it depends on your style of shooting. I wish I had bought the 11-22mm lens first before buying the 14-54 since I don't do much low lighting shooting on moving targets. Or I wish I bought my 50-200 before the 14-54 since I use that more than any of my other lenses.

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Zalllon
'If you knew you wouldn't fail, what would you try?' - someone

The price for the 14-54mm is about $400ish and the E-510 body is about $900ish...

Wouldn't you want to compare the 12-60mm vs. the E-510? They are only about $100 off in price.

I would say depends on your budget, too...

The E-300 is a fine camera.

The real decision is to get the fine and well proven 14-54 or try the new 12-60. IF you tend towards the wide angle and thought about an 11-22 the new 12-60 gives you almost that, a 14-54, and a bit more length to boot (albeit at a price only slightly lower than the two lenses put together and a timeframe looking very late in the year).

I have a 14-54 and its a great lens on an E--1, E-330, or E-510. I tend towards longer lenses so I use my 50-200 more but everyone has different lengths they use more than others.

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Regards
Jim

Simon Cowell said:

Perhaps you had a bad lens copy at the time because even the
ACR/Master samples are far softer than what you'd expect from this
camera.

Click to expand...

That was the software level at the time - I redeveloped the RAWs a few months back in C1 and CS2 ACR and there's no comparison, they're way better but this is about the JPG engine not the RAWs, no lens will remove the horrible Sony-A700 like melting what's occuring (I had the 14-54 as well then) .... I can't remember which firmware it had, I had it 3 months from december 04, probably pre-dated 1.3 .

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Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

Ben Herrmann said:

quite satisfactory - more so than with the copy I first had. So my
attitude has changed about the JPG's coming out of the camera.

Click to expand...

Maybe FW 1.3 did improve things, or they sorted things in Hardware (remember Phil saying that the NR was in the True-Pic chip hence why it couldn't be turned off?) .. I didn't have issue with the E500 JPG engine (still a bit plasticky but way better than the 04 E300s)

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Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist