ND filter on G9... gimmick?

I don't mean to be argumentative here. I am probably just naive. I barely know what a ND filter is... but with photoshop (PSE5.0) I have recently learned to use the gradient filter to create what I am told is the same effect. It would be hard for me to believe that an on-board camera filter can be as precise as a bit of post-processing in photoshop when it comes to gradient.

So, is the ND filter a gimmick? Or, does it really represent an excellent feature that should cause me to look more seriously at the G9 than I did before learning it had this feature?

Peter F.

You are missing the point of what an ND filter does. It essentially adds a stop (although I am not sure how much the G9 filter adds) and is very useful when shooting in very bright outdoor enviornments.

I don't actually own any ND filters (yet - future purchase!) but to my understanding the regular ND filters would seem to be useful for shooting in bright conditions where you want to use a small aperture for a shallower depth of field - something you couldn't really do is PS....although i suppose the same effect could be accomplished with some editing. Also useful for long exposures in the daytime...perfect example is a waterfall with the water all blurred.

With the grad ND filter I suppose you could do exactly the same thing in PS though!

It's not really like the gradient filter at all. ND filters are used to reduce the amount of light entering the lens and allow for the use of slower shutter speeds and/or wider apertures.

Let's say it's a sunny afternoon and you come upon a waterfall. You want to put your G9 on a tripod and use a slow shutter speed to get that soft water effect you have seen in magazines etc.

You turn the ISO to its lowest setting, you stop the lens down in A mode to smallest aperture, but it's a bright day and you still get 1/60 second for shutter speed. Invoking the ND filter (or putting an ND or Polarizer on a Lensmate adapter or a Canon LA-DC58H) will allow you to let one stop [depending on whether it's the internal ND or more if it's an external 2X or vari-ND] less light in and the camera can shoot at 1/30 or 1/15 of a second and blur that water more for you.

Hope that helps.
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http://pwscott.smugmug.com

The neutral density filter on the G7/G9 is not a gradient filter, it's a uniform, neutral grey filter. Whether you'll need it or not obviously depends on the kind of photography you do.

The bottom line is that an 'optical' ND filter allows you to use slower shutter speeds with a desired aperture, while maintaining an appropriate exposure. This can be useful when you want to control the degree of motion-blur in a photograph, for example when panning moving objects.

It's unlikely to be something you need to use all that often, but I would definitley say that it's preferable to do this in-camera rather than tinker around in photoshop.
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David Mintzer said:

You are missing the point of what an ND filter does. It essentially
adds a stop (although I am not sure how much the G9 filter adds) and
is very useful when shooting in very bright outdoor enviornments.

Click to expand...

I feel hardly in a position to make much comment here of the G7/G9 ND filter as quite honestly I've just never used it on my G7. But after reading a bit about it in a comment or so here (on Forum) in this last day or so I did just shoot a couple of samples on my G7 .. just to see the effect.

From those - and I hasten to add that as samples they were probably not too representative of general possible pics - but I think that as an educated guess it seemed to adjust for me at least , more than a stop .. it seemed more close to such as a 2-stop difference in those I sampled.

Frankly I just haven't had the need for an ND in my shots here , so far anyway - or should it be "Alas... " .. as I'm afraid our current UK climate certainly isn't that super that it needs anything taking off the light.
Does anybody know of a Filter that puts sunshine ON a pic ???????

As a P.S. to this - I've just been reading an interesting article on ND filters and it reminded readers that this can be a very useful item , not just for over-bright days , but to use in the case of such as Macro close-ups of flowers etc , where switching in the ND can perhaps give a much better (shallow) DOF effect - nice one ?? .. presumably better used if you switch to Av mode ..

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eric-UK

Once you start using the camera a lot more you start to realise how usefull the built in ND filter really is.

I think its one of the best features of the G7/G9

read more about using ND filters here
http://www.mycanong7.com/25701/273101.html

regards
dave

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Powershot A80(sold), Powershot G7

I have used the built in ND with my earlier Gs (G3 and G6) for limiting depth of field and creating motion blur in moving water in bright light-- you certainly cannot do the latter with digital "filters".

ericN2 said:

Does anybody know of a Filter that puts sunshine ON a pic ???????

Click to expand...

Hi Eric, I remember years ago, Cokin used to make a rainbow filter ;-)

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'The primary purpose of any business is to make a profit.'
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neuron09 said:

I have used the built in ND with my earlier Gs (G3 and G6) for
limiting depth of field and creating motion blur in moving water in
bright light-- you certainly cannot do the latter with digital
"filters".

Click to expand...

That's a very good use for an ND filter, but yo most certainly can add blur to water in PP, I've done it many times.

--
'The primary purpose of any business is to make a profit.'
Canon CEO Fujio Mitarai

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home ;jsessionid=GX90G0k1Qp!1508707039?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=186095&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

ND works quite well.

I used it for shooting with external flash on a bright sunny day (to offset shadows), when the max shutter speed with the flash is 1/250 (whereas with 5.6 aperture P mode would give shutter speed e.g. of at least 1/1000 and going to the smallest aperture is not a good option, since IQ at 8.0 aperture is not at its best).

BTW, this situation cannot be fixed in PP ;-)

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G7 & S5 IS

I have used very often the ND filter in my G5, specially for mountains/landscapes with a tripod you can use lower shutter speeds and it gives a more depth of field.

--
http://www.autospeed.ro
http://forum.amazona.ro

PeterNMIF said:

I don't mean to be argumentative here. I am probably just naive. I
barely know what a ND filter is... but with photoshop (PSE5.0) I have
recently learned to use the gradient filter to create what I am told
is the same effect. It would be hard for me to believe that an
on-board camera filter can be as precise as a bit of post-processing
in photoshop when it comes to gradient.

Peter F.

Click to expand...

Your terminology is a little off. What the G9 has emulates an ND filter, not a ND gradient filter. These are two different devices used for two different purposes.

A straight ND filter reduces the amount of light for the ENTIRE IMAGE. This is done to increase exposure time to show motion, or let the picture be taken with lens more open to decrease depth of focus and blur the background. This is what the ND filter in the G9 does.

A ND Gradient filter is used to reduce light for PART of the image. A classic example is to reduce the light in the sky so you can expose for the foreground elements without worrying about blowing out the sky and background elements. Imagine you are shooting some flowers in a meadow with sunbathed mountains and a bright sky in the background. The flowers are in shade so they need a long exposure, but you want to preventing the sky and mountains in the background from being blown out.

The straight ND filters effects are harder to emulate with PS. You can do blurs and such, but they often look too uniform and just too processed. The ND gradient can be done in PS, but usually requires multiple exposures. You then mask off the parts you want to show or hide. Since your masking can be very precise you can achieve results that cannot be achieved with a physical ND Gradient filter.

So, the short answer is that the ND filter in the G9 is useful, and you can get great ND gradient type results with PS.

jerry
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jerryk.smugmug.com

............As it allows you to keep the lens in the sweet spot (F4 at the wide end, around F5.6 at the long end) in bright weather - Digicams by design have limited shutter speed so yiou have to either make the aperture a lot smaller (which causes diffraction far earlier than an SLR) or use an ND filter to block the light, having one in cam is very handy.....

I don't know how its done in the G7/9 - the G3/5/6's was a hardware unit inbetween the CCD and lens and it Clicked - I don't remember the G7 clicking so maybe they've done it in software now ? (halving the sensitivity of the Amps ?) Dunno, Maybe it does click but however, it can be a useful thing to have

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Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

The article at http://www.mycanong7.com/25701/273101.html includes this text:

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Based on the above information, the question is, when does one use the ND filter? Bright sunny days, snow or bright beach areas will be perfect places to consider the ND filter. The ND filter is used to reduce the light intensity and therefor the dynamic range. External ND filters can be of the gradual type that means from one end to the other end of the filter the ND filter effect gradually increases. When the gradual ND filter is placed on the camera then the clear part covers the landscape and the ND part will cover the sky. This will reduce the light intensity of the sky and therefor the number of steps or the dynamic range. When you apply the build in ND filter of the G7 then you will get the feeling the dynamic range of the sensor has increased. The reason is as discussed, the ND filter will reduce the light intensity.
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External graduated ND filters can reduce the luminance range of a scene. The ND filter built-in to the G7 and G9 can NOT reduce the luminance range of a scene.

Mike Davis
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http://www.accessz.com

HondaHRV said:

I have used very often the ND filter in my G5, specially for
mountains/landscapes with a tripod you can use lower shutter speeds
and it gives a more depth of field.

--
http://www.autospeed.ro
http://forum.amazona.ro

Click to expand...

Could you please explain why you need a lower shutter speed for mountains?
How does it give a more depth of field?

I have used the ND filter in super bright scenes to lower the brightness, which saved the picture, otherwise the range was too great for the camera to record properly.

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5D and G9
Happy together.

I took the G9 to the Jersey shore on a very bright day. The results I got when using the ND were not blown - even the shots of the ocean and sky in the middle of the day. I do believe it works in these situations. It worked for me....I ended up with some great images.

Maria
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I have used the ND filter on my G6 in the Swiss mountains in the winter on very sunny days. The snowy alps were much more visible with the filter on.
Teri
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http://www.pbase.com/terif

FYI - The ND filter in the G9 is equivalent to an ND8 which is 3 stops. (Stated in the manual...)

Although they do handy in other situations the main reason I use mine is this:







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Neil Vanderwolf
Zenfolio Featured Photographer
http://thewarmland.com