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New releases by one of the big 2, and only one post on that event.... It has been different. It has been know to be the start of numerous 150-post "doom and gloom "-threads. Not now.....
It seems we have grown up. I am proud of that....

However I have noticed on the Canon forum... Aaah, nevermind, this is the real world....
Dave Santora said:
I have no idea what your shorthand version of your thoughts was
trying to convey - please translate, or elaborate, or... what did
you mean anyway :)
--
http://www.arizonadigitalphotography.com - finally up, give a look

http://www.davidlakephotos.com - wedding site in the works...
Click to expand...
--
janneman
http://www.pbase.com/jl2


Dave Santora said:
The difference between genius and LBA is that genius has its
limits.
  • Janneman ( adaptation of the Kings quote from Albert Einstein)
Click to expand...
 
Canon still releases EF-S lenses for APS-C.
Nikon new D300 is for APS-C. Canon new 40D is for APS-C.
APS-C is alive and kickin'.

Where is the consumer 24x36? That has not happened, and I don't think it ever will happen. So you claim APS-C will die because of those ultra-expensive professional level 24x36? I don't see that coming. Nothing has really happened since Canon released the 5D. 24x36 stays at the same level price wise. This shows that I was right in my belief that 24x36 will stay as a low-priced alternative to medium format, but will not replace APS-C for semi-pro/advanced amateur and budget pro-level. I also don't see the 4/3" to be replaced anytime soon because of those ultra-expensive 24x36 cameras.
So the Olympus E-510 will die because of Nikon D3 and Canon 5D???

Now, how many E-510 cany you buy for the price of Canon 5D? Isn't it 4-5 E-510's?
--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
 
consumer 24x36... how about film?

Most consumer labs can scan at resolutions equal to about 6 or 8 megapixels - get a good scanner and you've got what your asking for (aside from the fact that each shot now costs money). I get great results from Fuji superia 200 and kodak labs.
--

 
janneman02 said:
New releases by one of the big 2, and only one post on that event....
It has been different. It has been know to be the start of numerous
150-post "doom and gloom "-threads. Not now.....
It seems we have grown up. I am proud of that....
Click to expand...
Actually janneman, this forum only usually does doom and gloom 150-post threads over Canon releases.

Nikon releases pass relatively quietly.
janneman02 said:
However I have noticed on the Canon forum... Aaah, nevermind, this is
the real world....
Dave Santora said:
I have no idea what your shorthand version of your thoughts was
trying to convey - please translate, or elaborate, or... what did
you mean anyway :)
--
http://www.arizonadigitalphotography.com - finally up, give a look

http://www.davidlakephotos.com - wedding site in the works...
Click to expand...
--
janneman
http://www.pbase.com/jl2


janneman02 said:
The difference between genius and LBA is that genius has its
limits.
  • Janneman ( adaptation of the Kings quote from Albert Einstein)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
GMT+1 (BST)
 
I don't want FF - I don't see any benefits for me, and I see plenty of negatives (size, weight, price, storage needs...).

That said, Nikon did get two things right here that the should be commended for: First, they did not succumb to the temptation to do massive resolution. 12Mp is plenty for just about any application, and the (probable) better performance in low-light is much more important than higher resolution. Those that need highest resolution at any cost will get a medium-format back and gear anyway.

Second, they have a much better way to deal with APS lenses than Canon. On a Canon, your APS lenses are wasted if you get an FF camera. On this Nikon, it will effectively revert to a 5.1Mp APS-frame camera for those lenses; they will keep performing like they always have. Good idea.

--
Japan: http://www.lucs.lu.se/people/jan.moren/log/current.html
Images: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jannem/
 
Dave Santora said:
I have no idea what your shorthand version of your thoughts was
trying to convey - please translate, or elaborate, or... what did
you mean anyway :)
Click to expand...
What he is saying is that this forum has only "1" thread on the N*k*n news, where as the C*n*n forum has more N*k*n threads then C*n*n threads...LoL
Dave Santora said:
http://www.arizonadigitalphotography.com - finally up, give a look

http://www.davidlakephotos.com - wedding site in the works...
Click to expand...
--
Hey, look at the 1 eyed human, and look how big it is…



My Pentax K10d galleries http://www.pbase.com/wjwncpro/k10d (GMT-6)
 
Brett St Pierre said:
Anastigmat said:
The D3 has just been announced. Estimated selling price is $5,000.
Click to expand...
So full frame isn't getting any cheaper than. Will this start the
price battle for full frame?
The 5D body is still almost 4x the price of the K10D in my country
which is a big barrier but with competition we might see it get
within range of the ordinary user in a 2-3 years. The hurdle is the
cost of the FF sensor itself ...
Click to expand...
And the extra cost of much better FF lenses to resolve the detail, cheap lenses are a waste of time.

Pete

--



http://www.flickr.com/photos/pete_with_pentax/
 
LOL!

You must have been waiting forever to start this thread.

Well, like I’ve said for a very long time, “It’s a Full-Frame World.”

Pentax need to produce a Full Frame camera or they will end up stuck in the APS-C ghetto but I don’t expect them to produce a FF camera until it can be done for around $2,200.

However if they expect that in the long run people will either go APS-C or Medium Format they will experience the same “user churn” than occurred in the past and left them where they are now i.e. people will start out with Pentax but move on when they want more out of the camera because Pentax tires to force them to go MF.
Anastigmat said:
The D3 has just been announced. Estimated selling price is $5,000.
FX format (36mm x 23.9mm) 12mp just like the Canon 5D. Now we have
two DSLR makers moving to full frame, with Sony probably joining the
club next year. When, if ever, will Pentax join the club?
Click to expand...
--
GMT+1 (BST)
 
Not only is FF really expensive, it is also really heavy. I don't want to lug around a 1.5 kg full-frame camera body (let alone weight-lift such a monster with a FF lens attached). The K10d is still the lightest weather sealed camera on the market.

I think Pentax would benefit from not entering the FF war. Better for them to have Medium Format for those photographers that want maximum quality and are willing to pay for it by carrying maximum weight and paying maximum price. Then APS-C for the rest of us.

So then, three down (Olympus, Canon, Nikon) two more to go. I wonder what Sony has up its sleeve ...
 
janneman02 said:
in te past, the moment something new was announced, this forum would
be full off, "why I skip"and "why I stay" and "what would this
mean??" posts...
Click to expand...
janneman02 said:
janneman02 said:
  • Janneman ( adaptation of the Kings quote from Albert Einstein)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I tend to think that now we have some decent lenses that no other brand has, and a solid weather sealed well priced camera, and some stuff to look forward to, its just not that gloomy anymore :)

I look and go "wow, nice" then be happy that I've got a weather sealed package for $2000 AUD. Then go rock hopping up a rainforest creek without worrying.
 
mpixel said:
janneman02 said:
New releases by one of the big 2, and only one post on that event....
It has been different. It has been know to be the start of numerous
150-post "doom and gloom "-threads. Not now.....
It seems we have grown up. I am proud of that....
Click to expand...
Actually janneman, this forum only usually does doom and gloom
150-post threads over Canon releases.

Nikon releases pass relatively quietly.
Click to expand...
Not this time - there are several threads on the Nikon's already and well rightly so IMO - these are very impressive cameras. The D300 is sweet! Well so is the D3 (and clearly better thought out than Canon's FF offerings with DX support + a bunch of nice features and 12MP's and awesome ISO ranges for both cams!). Nikon takes the cake over Canon with these big-time IMO - they are both specs only right now obviously though but man Nikon sounds way more appealing. I thought the new Canon 40D looked nice when it was announced but man is that D300 something or what (even 100% VF coverage - Nice!).
mpixel said:
mpixel said:
However I have noticed on the Canon forum... Aaah, nevermind, this is
the real world....
Dave Santora said:
I have no idea what your shorthand version of your thoughts was
trying to convey - please translate, or elaborate, or... what did
you mean anyway :)
--
http://www.arizonadigitalphotography.com - finally up, give a look

http://www.davidlakephotos.com - wedding site in the works...
Click to expand...
--
janneman
http://www.pbase.com/jl2


mpixel said:
The difference between genius and LBA is that genius has its
limits.
  • Janneman ( adaptation of the Kings quote from Albert Einstein)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
GMT+1 (BST)
Click to expand...
--
Sinan
http://sinantarlan.zenfolio.com/

 
Nope. Just because Canon and Nikon, and soon Sony, have ultra expensive professional 24x36 bodies as low-cost alternatives to digital medium format, this doesn't mean that the world is going 24x36 unless the world is going pro.

The bar for the 24x36 has not been lowered, the cameras has not come down in prices, and the userbase has not been broaded. 24x36 is today where it was last year. Nothing has happened. It is still that rare and ultra-expensive exclusive digital format. Nothing has changed because Nikon comes up with an ultra-expensive 24x36 camera.

Nikon's new D300, Canon's new D40, Canon's new EF-S lenses, all shows that APS-C is coming strong, is alive and kickin' and is here to stay. APS-C is a format for the future, it has already replaced 24x36 film as the dominating digital format for most consumers and semi-professionald, or professionals on a tight budget. And it will stay there.

APS-C, 24x36 and digital medium format are happily co-existing now and will continue so into the future. This is the reality. There is no need for Pentax to come up with a "me too" ultra expensive 24x36 product that few people would buy. The 24x36 club is not growing just because new members wants to join the club, the 24x36 club still has a very limited share of the market and this will not increase unless many photographers suddenly wins the lottery.
--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
 
Hi Stig,
Stig Vidar Hovland said:
I have to agree with Brett here. The future is aps-c simply because
of its lower price. Nothing has really changed for me. I simply don't
need full frame as aps-c is a better solution for me.
Click to expand...
Yep, me too. The D3 will also be huge compared to my DS. I would never want to lug that thing around, even if I could afford it.

Pentax is the biggest bang for your buck for a very very compact DSLR system, and no full frame camera is going to change that. The future of advanced digital cameras for hobbyists is not full frame - Nobody really truly wants to schlepp that massive gear around with them on vacation unless they're being paid to do it. My bet is rich hobbyists will end up carrying a different camera on trips and relegating their massive full frame digital bodies to the closet after a few months. Hah! While they're snapping honey and the kids with their noisy point and shoot, the Pentaxians are making fabulous images with tiny but impressive pancake lenses...

-Matt
 
Jan Moren said:
Second, they have a much better way to deal with APS lenses than
Canon. On a Canon, your APS lenses are wasted if you get an FF
camera. On this Nikon, it will effectively revert to a 5.1Mp
APS-frame camera for those lenses; they will keep performing like
they always have. Good idea.
Click to expand...
I have my doubts about the performance for the D3 set to DX format. I don't see how it could perform better than Nikon's entry level APS-C bodies. Buying an ultra-expensive D3 and discover that the DX lenses isn't giving as good images as they did on Nikon's cheapest DSLR -that doesn't sound like a "good idea" to me.
--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
 
Sinan Tarlan said:
mpixel said:
janneman02 said:
New releases by one of the big 2, and only one post on that event....
It has been different. It has been know to be the start of numerous
150-post "doom and gloom "-threads. Not now.....
It seems we have grown up. I am proud of that....
Click to expand...
Actually janneman, this forum only usually does doom and gloom
150-post threads over Canon releases.

Nikon releases pass relatively quietly.
Click to expand...
Not this time - there are several threads on the Nikon's already and
well rightly so IMO - these are very impressive cameras.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but tis seems to be only one of two at the time, I think a third thread started less than half an hour ago.
Gumpy's "DSLR wars"post is a little too general .
SFT007 said:
The D300 is
sweet! Well so is the D3 (and clearly better thought out than Canon's
FF offerings with DX support + a bunch of nice features and 12MP's
and awesome ISO ranges for both cams!). Nikon takes the cake over
Canon with these big-time IMO - they are both specs only right now
obviously though but man Nikon sounds way more appealing. I thought
the new Canon 40D looked nice when it was announced but man is that
D300 something or what (even 100% VF coverage - Nice!).
Click to expand...
But I agree, the new Nikons look fine.... Problem with Nikon is that you have to buy VR glass if you want it and one silly thing, The Nikon rep in te Netherlands could not tell anybody which lenses are sealed enough to use on sealed camera.....
--
janneman
http://www.pbase.com/jl2


SFT007 said:
The difference between genius and LBA is that genius has its
limits.
  • Janneman ( adaptation of the Kings quote from Albert Einstein)
Click to expand...
 
No, it is not a "full frame world" just beacuse Canon and Nikon, and soon Sony, have ultra-expensive 24x36 cameras. The world wasn't medium format when we had medium format cameras in this price bracket. 24x36 digital has taken over the analogue medium format market. The 24x36 analogue market has been taken over by APS-C digital.
And those formats will happily co-exist.

I don't understand how you even can use the term "full frame world" when the majority of photographers hasn't won the lottery yet so they can't afford those ultra-expensive cameras. 24x36 isn't for the common people and never will be, which is proven by the Nikon D3. D3 hasn't made 24x36 more affordable, it is not a consumer or semi-pro 'cam. Nothing has happened yet, 24x36 is still this year at where it was last year - it is still an ultra-expensive pro format for the fortunate rich ones.

The D300 by Nikon and 40D by Canon strongly shows that "it is an APS-C world", and will continue being that. APS-C is here to stay and the latest releases from Canon and Nikon shows that this is true, APS-C is getting stronger than ever before.
--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
 
Anastigmat said:
The D3 has just been announced. Estimated selling price is $5,000.
Click to expand...
The price strongly shows that nothing has really happened. 24x36 is still an ultra-expensive format for the fortunate ones. Unless most photographers suddenly wins the lottery, 24x36 will stay as a minority digital format for the fortunate ones, as a low cost alternative to digital medium format. Digital 24x36 takes over where analogue medium format left. It is an APS-C world, which shows by Nikon's and Canon's strong comitment to APS-C with the release of D300 and 40D, and the release of new EF-S lenses (APS-C) by Canon. APS-C of today has taken over from the analogue 24x36 of the past. It is the dominating format and will continue to be so for the time being.
--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
 
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