Can't wait for the E-3 fun to begin

Barry Fitzgerald said:

I agree with Reichmann! (not often that happens), he just got the
timescale right.

Click to expand...

Well, in the long run, we're ALL dead. But the LARGER sensors will be the first to go extinct, not 4/3/

Member said:

Sorry to say that next few years is still here. Sure 4/3 is still
around..but its not exactly blowing the barn doors off is it?

Click to expand...

It happens to currently be gaining market share faster than any other format.

Member said:

You see people getting excited about the new E cameras? nope..

Click to expand...

Actually, that would be YES.

Member said:

I just see people with canon and nikons around there neck.

Click to expand...

Perhaps you need to remove your head from the oriface that is obscuring your viewpoint

Member said:

Sorry in 5 years time you will be cursing Olympus for locking you
into a format that is too limited.

Click to expand...

Or else, we'll just be out taking photos

Member said:

And the new E-3 just got slapped down with that nice 40D price..you
can be sure Nikon and Sony will eat up the rest of the pie.

Click to expand...

What I can be sure of is that this will make my next 4/3 camera cost less than it would have had there not been an interesting announcement from Canon

Member said:

Leaving the scraps for Oly ;-)

Their market share is appaling..these new cams will just hammer it
even more.

Click to expand...

Actually, it's growing faster than anyone, and they have passed both Pentax and Sony in the past 2 quarters.

Member said:

Not that I want that to happen, but its a shame to see a company take
a route that is clearly limited over the long term.

Click to expand...

Except that it's not.

Member said:

--



Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)

Click to expand...

Buh Bye - if this is your best insight, there's no need to hurry back.

rovingtim said:

rovingtim said:

Tim seems to be writing off the E3 after the 40D
announcement, even though the Olympus specs are better in several
areas.

Click to expand...

Perhaps I was not clear. I was questioning Olympus's ability to
predict the competition. I was questioning the projections Oly made
in the pdf, not the new E.

Click to expand...

Oly's predictions for the 40D in that PDF turned out to be a very good guess.

Oly predicted a 12 MP camera doing 5 FPS, and Canon came out with a 10 MP camera doing 6.5 FPS, that was very slightly splash-proofed. In all other areas, they nailed it exactly. I'd say that's a pretty darn good competitive forecast.

rovingtim said:

As far as I'm concerned, while we won't know for sure until its
released, the new E looks very good.

Click to expand...

Member said:

You see people getting excited about the new E cameras? nope..

Click to expand...

Don't know where you've been, but folks have been foaming at the mouth for months in antisipation of the new Oly releases

Member said:

I just see people with canon and nikons around there neck.

Click to expand...

Folks who buy a camera so they can look cool? I suspect Oly buyers are more interested in how a camera works that what they are seen with.

Member said:

Sorry in 5 years time you will be cursing Olympus for locking you
into a format that is too limited.

Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean by this... please clarify/
There's only so many $$$$ lenses you can lust for.

Add ability to use legacy glass (and Canikon lenses as well as others) and space and budget and imagination become the limiting factors... Or are you refering to Oly being too limited in what you have to spend to get the image quality you want?

Member said:

Their market share is appaling..these new cams will just hammer it
even more.

Click to expand...

Do you have market share figures? Please post. Especially would be interested in market share numbers pre digital vs current.

--
Art P



Select images may be seen here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8131242@N04/

Until the rest of the manufacturers downsize their long lenses to APS, I can't see ever going back to them. Carrying around a N 400/2.8 on a D200 with a tripod and ballhead to match is twice the mass of an Oly outfit. And you know what? I don't see anybody downsizing, either, except maybe Pentax giviing a feeble start with a few, but the longest on their roadmap to date is a 300/4. And of course, N/C promise nothing, so I am very happy with my E510, my 300/2.8 and 90-250/2.8 Oly glass for tele (ie, bird) work. Can't wait for the E3.

The mobility of these outfits let me get vastly more birds deep in the forest that I ever could, very easily hiking two miles or more into the nearby Shenandoah National forest with ease. I also can quickly lift my Oly rig, tripod and all, up into the air and take a picture, now that I have IS. I dumped my HumVee and its machine gun mount along with my massive Nikon rig, saving a fortune. Couldn't drive in in the forest, anyway, so it was worthless.

There is nothing even close to challenge Oly here so far. And of course, with FF, you lose the free telephoto effect of smaller sensors anyway and then you are right back to those monster, slower lenses again. This is the most important thing to me. Wide anglers may not feel this way, and that's a valid aspect to consider.
John Ellis

True enough.
There's always something.

My point and shoot camera is a G7. For months, I saw all kinds of posts over on the Canon forum about how the camera would be perfect if it only had RAW. Well, the new G9 does, but some folks are already complaining that the images look 'flat,' or that RAW on such a camera is a waste of time.
You've gotta laugh.........

http://www.flickr.com/photos/58453489@N00/

Brian G. said:

smokeyjoe said:

I wish I had links
or quotes from the bone-heads that claimed just a few short years ago
that the 4/3rds system was a dead end, or that there was no way that
anyone could make a 4/3rds size sensor with more than 5 megapixels
(apparently, the laws of physics dictated this to be so), or that no
publisher would accept images from an Oly camera.
Hang on to your hats folks, this is gonna get good!

Click to expand...

Of course, on the other hand, it's equally amusing to remember the
bone-heads who claimed, just a few short years ago, that plastic
cameras are cr@p, image stabilization is unnecessary, etc, etc...

Olympus users are prone to the same idiocy as others in their
statements about cameras and their use.

--
Brian

Some monochromes:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/spiritmist/SundayBoating/index.htm
Some more monochromes:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/spiritmist/BWWebPage/index.htm

'To quote out of context is the essence of the photographer's craft.'
John Szarkowski, The Photographer's Eye

Click to expand...

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/58453489@N00/

The future is not in larger sensors, it never will be, not for consumers and to some extent for pros. IQ in the sensor will be improved upon consistently to the point where IQ in a future 1/2.5" or smaller sensor will be equal to an APS-C or 4/3 sensor today, and by future I'm thinking low single digit years.

This is not to say that APS-C and 4/3 are dead -- they'll keep humming along for quite some time, but will gradually lose market share if a newer, more compact standard with acceptable IQ can be developed (and unlike the limitations of technology in film that killed the Pen, sensor tech is still improving by leaps and bounds). I actually don't think 4/3 will expire or become marginalized anytime soon, but I certainly can see it becoming more a professional format over time as excellent consumer formats become smaller.

As someone mentioned above, the key to 4/3 is that it is consistent. You know exactly how a 4/3 lens will perform in any 4/3 body. How many sensor sizes are there in Canon and Nikon digital bodies now, anyway? I find the whole thing pretty confusing.

I also find it rather nice to have a standard that allows you to convert 35mm focal lengths and apertures very easily. Times 2 and divide by 2 are much easier to think about in the head on the go than 1.5, 1.6, etc.

I'm at the point where I don't even think of 'focal length conversions' anymore. T
Soon, that's going to be a thing of the past for many others as well.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/58453489@N00/

paultakeda said:

The future is not in larger sensors, it never will be, not for
consumers and to some extent for pros. IQ in the sensor will be
improved upon consistently to the point where IQ in a future 1/2.5"
or smaller sensor will be equal to an APS-C or 4/3 sensor today, and
by future I'm thinking low single digit years.

This is not to say that APS-C and 4/3 are dead -- they'll keep
humming along for quite some time, but will gradually lose market
share if a newer, more compact standard with acceptable IQ can be
developed (and unlike the limitations of technology in film that
killed the Pen, sensor tech is still improving by leaps and bounds).
I actually don't think 4/3 will expire or become marginalized anytime
soon, but I certainly can see it becoming more a professional format
over time as excellent consumer formats become smaller.

As someone mentioned above, the key to 4/3 is that it is consistent.
You know exactly how a 4/3 lens will perform in any 4/3 body. How
many sensor sizes are there in Canon and Nikon digital bodies now,
anyway? I find the whole thing pretty confusing.

I also find it rather nice to have a standard that allows you to
convert 35mm focal lengths and apertures very easily. Times 2 and
divide by 2 are much easier to think about in the head on the go than
1.5, 1.6, etc.

Click to expand...

. . . . "profound expertise" in this matter ? (In addition to the pubs !)

Paul
Vancouver, WA . . . (USA)

galleries at:
http://www.pbase.com/spdavis/just_between_us_

I am going to ignore the personal remark made above, just to say however hard or wrong my viewpoint may be to some, there is no place for people like that on any forum.

My point is this.......

Let's leave the FF thing aside, we can debate it to death..only time will tell, I stick by my figure of 5 years and semi pros will have FF sensors, and entry level ones may well have say a 1.25 crop. Gonna happen..

Oly do tasty lenses..we know this, every smart person does.

We know they have a real working well dustbuster, no point living in denial, it works. Sweet.

I am talking about the UK, and aside from the blowout bargain E500/400 deals (yes shock I even suggested a few people check it out), Oly UK prices suck eggs!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000OKLEFG/interactiveda3029-21

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Olympus-E-410-Digital-Camera-14-42mm/dp/B000OKJN4K/ref=pd_sbs_ce_2/203-5894047-0515155

Now you work it out, I dont see lots of Oly cameras about, wonder why?

Simply put they need to be attacking the £300 ish market with the 410, and beating the 400D, A-100 market with the E510. It aint happening..it wont happen, and by the time the prices drop down to more reasonable levels, all the big boys will have released their "new swanky" Oly beating models.

Back to square one...

Now onto the E3...ok so you see that going for less than £899? I dont..try more like a £1100+ at least.

Oly's leaked PDF blasted out..

"Canon users want"
Weather seals
Live view
Dustbusting.

guess what folks..."THEY GOT IT"!!! And the 3" LCD too

Aside from the wireless flash..which canon are lazy on.

They got the kitchen sink...there is no question the 40D will beat the E3 at high ISO...FPS performance, bigger VF. Its outspecced already! And thats before we even see what the other two are up to.

I am no canon fan, not at all..but Oly are going to be left standing at the party with the lights out..everyone has gone home.

Sorry folks, they let the E pro camera slip for too long. Game over.

--



Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)

I doubt MR would stand by his own assessment now, 4 years later.

Not going to offer any prognostications of my own, but you really are what we call on this side of the world a sh*t-stirrer. Makes me {smile}.

Cheers, John

I like you very much and I love reading your posts fortelling the demise of Oly every few weeks or so

These forums would be a poorer place if it weren't for characters such as yourself to lighten the atmosphere and keep everyone cheerful.

Kind regards,
Alistair
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/twonker/

I have to admit, I've always tended to run away from the "most popular" of just about anything. My film cameras were OM and Bronica, and loved them for years. I fell in love with the E-1, and aside from MP, preferred it in every way to my E-500. If it were 10MP, I would be totally satisfied.

I await the E-3, and as long as it is as good as the E-1 was, I will be happy. Any extra technology is welcome. I could care less what Canon or Nikon does, and where the E-3 ranks in that heirarchy.

paultakeda said:

paultakeda wrote:
As someone mentioned above, the key to 4/3 is that it is consistent.
You know exactly how a 4/3 lens will perform in any 4/3 body. How
many sensor sizes are there in Canon and Nikon digital bodies now,
anyway? I find the whole thing pretty confusing.

Click to expand...

Well, within the Nikon system, there is the same number of sensor sizes as there are in the Olympus system, and that number is exactly ONE. Really not all that confusing, actually.

It's only Canon that cannot decide upon which size sensor to standardize upon, and have come up with 3 different ones, none of which optimally use all of their lenses.

Widanglers that is:

John Ellis said:

There is nothing even close to challenge Oly here so far. And of
course, with FF, you lose the free telephoto effect of smaller
sensors anyway and then you are right back to those monster, slower
lenses again. This is the most important thing to me. Wide anglers
may not feel this way, and that's a valid aspect to consider.

Click to expand...

At least, something like it:
sharp the corners wide open
almost no vignetting
excellent distortion characteristics

I suppose it ain't quite the same thing - but the principle is the same
best wishes
--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

Lol.....

I like Olympus...

I just think they should be priced cheaper!

then the compaints fade away ;-)
--



Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)

Member said:

Barry Fitzgerald wrote:
I am talking about the UK, and aside from the blowout bargain
E500/400 deals (yes shock I even suggested a few people check it
out), Oly UK prices suck eggs!

Click to expand...

......

Member said:

Now you work it out, I dont see lots of Oly cameras about, wonder why?

Click to expand...

I would imagine it's because you haven't pried yourself off of a bar stool in ages, in a nation where people are still paying attention to an anachronism like the Monarchy, as though it were the most important institution in the world. Maybe you ought to wake up, get out, and see the world - it's the 21st century, for goodness sakes, so it's time to stop thinking like it's still the 19th.

Here's a hint about semiconductor technology - which, BTW, is what digital cameras are all made of: The hint is this: As devices evolve, they get SMALLER. The BIGGER ones are the ones that get extinct first. It's because that is the inexorable march of photolithography technology which is used to lay out the electronic lines on an electronic circuit. Eventually, (and this is not far away, perhaps 2-3 generations, or 4-6 years time, give or take a bit) a Full Frame sensor will be impossible to make on a monolithic die using any competitive mixed signal semiconductor process - at which point, those high end Full Frame bodies are going to go UP in price to levels similar to current medium format bodies+backs. That will also eventually happen to APS-C sensors, and then later to 4/3 sensors as well, but the SMALLER the sensor, the longer it will be before that happens. So, monolithic APS-C sensors probably will be around for 5 years LONGER than full 35mm frame sensors, and 4/3 sensors will probably be around for 3-4 years LONGER than that.

This is simply the fact of life in the semiconductor business. The stepper reticle is getting smaller as process technology evolves. And it won't be long before the stepper reticle in state of the art mixed signal process technology is too small to make a 35mm full frame sensor on a monolithic die. 5 years, give or take, and full frame sensors become relegated to the $10K+ market for ever after.

DougJGreen said:

I would imagine it's because you haven't pried yourself off of a bar
stool in ages, in a nation where people are still paying attention to
an anachronism like the Monarchy, as though it were the most
important institution in the world. Maybe you ought to wake up, get
out, and see the world - it's the 21st century, for goodness sakes,
so it's time to stop thinking like it's still the 19th.

Click to expand...

Um if I told you I am a big Cromwell fan, and that the best thing he did was chop a kings head off..., and that I have been anti royal family for 20 years..would that convince you?

Might be an idea to stick to the topic..rather than insult me or where I am from.

--



Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)

Barry Fitzgerald said:

DougJGreen said:

I would imagine it's because you haven't pried yourself off of a bar
stool in ages, in a nation where people are still paying attention to
an anachronism like the Monarchy, as though it were the most
important institution in the world. Maybe you ought to wake up, get
out, and see the world - it's the 21st century, for goodness sakes,
so it's time to stop thinking like it's still the 19th.

Click to expand...

Um if I told you I am a big Cromwell fan, and that the best thing he
did was chop a kings head off..., and that I have been anti royal
family for 20 years..would that convince you?

Might be an idea to stick to the topic..rather than insult me or
where I am from.

Click to expand...

I notice that you actually ignored the substantive part of my reply where I actually DID address the topic at hand - the part about semiconductor technology moving inexorably toward making LARGER sensors obsolete. Perhaps I threw in the bit about you anachronistic Brits in just so that you could grasp some small part of my entire reply.

Barry Fitzgerald said:

I agree with Reichmann! (not often that happens), he just got the
timescale right.

Click to expand...

Reichmann is wrong, and doesnt have the brains the balls or the wit to write that

Member said:

Sorry to say that next few years is still here. Sure 4/3 is still
around..but its not exactly blowing the barn doors off is it?

Click to expand...

Olympus never did, they will get an unexpected 10% of dSLR sales this year

Member said:

You see people getting excited about the new E cameras? nope..

Click to expand...

actually, there are, there have been many visitors here asking questions

in your habitual 'i told you so' style where you like the sound of your own words....i guess you missed it

Member said:

I just see people with canon and nikons around there neck.

Sorry in 5 years time you will be cursing Olympus for locking you
into a format that is too limited.

Click to expand...

first 2 yrs now 5, next week 7?
sensor sizes will fall not rise, the popularity of compacts makes it so

Member said:

And the new E-3 just got slapped down with that nice 40D price..you
can be sure Nikon and Sony will eat up the rest of the pie.

Leaving the scraps for Oly ;-)

Click to expand...

nice, you seem to take such great joy in spreading pain on people ";-)"
i guess you are going to come back with 'hey im not an @sshole'
but most know the score by now

Member said:

Their market share is appaling..these new cams will just hammer it
even more.

Click to expand...

growing share is better than falling, we will see Canon share decrease from here no matter what they do

Member said:

Not that I want that to happen, but its a shame to see a company take
a route that is clearly limited over the long term.

Click to expand...

so they would do better by being like everyone else ?

you know, below average APS C, vignetting, average lenses, fall off featureless bimbo cameras, i guess you live in a sad world, fighting the image contrast of white on white

--
Riley

real men get zippo haircuts

Barry Fitzgerald said:

I agree with Reichmann! (not often that happens), he just got the
timescale right.

Sorry to say that next few years is still here. Sure 4/3 is still
around..but its not exactly blowing the barn doors off is it?

You see people getting excited about the new E cameras? nope..

Click to expand...

There's been quite an excitement over the e-410/e-510. In fact, the e-510 is flying off the shelves. Even if the e-3 went down the drain, 4/3rds would still go on.

Member said:

I just see people with canon and nikons around there neck.

Click to expand...

I see quite a few Canon and Nikon guys buying an e-510 and either selling their gear or leaving their gear int he closet. And these are not small cameras either. I have counted like 4 Canon 5D owners here. How do you explain that?

Member said:

Sorry in 5 years time you will be cursing Olympus for locking you
into a format that is too limited.

Click to expand...

I don't know why you keep hampering with this stupidity. Really. If anything 4/3rds is strongest today than it has ever been.

Member said:

And the new E-3 just got slapped down with that nice 40D price..you
can be sure Nikon and Sony will eat up the rest of the pie.

Click to expand...

We don't know what the e-3 will finally include. I would be willing to bet that the E-3 will be far more reliable than that Canon if any past and present builds are any indication.

Member said:

Leaving the scraps for Oly ;-)

Their market share is appaling..these new cams will just hammer it
even more.

Click to expand...

Actually Olympus marketshare has been growing.

Member said:

Not that I want that to happen, but its a shame to see a company take
a route that is clearly limited over the long term.

Click to expand...

I can't even begin to understand why you chose to take the stupid route. All evidence points to the contrary as far as Olympus DSLR's market goes.

Member said:

--



Clint is on holiday! Soon to return! ;-)

Click to expand...

--
Raist3d
Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Vid Games Programmer