Close Up

Dan Brown · Mar 27, 2002

Why do you always want to know what people are trying to say with their pictures, you must have started about a dozen feedbacks with this question. It isn't up to the artist to explain what he was trying to say with words, that's why he took the picture. Pictures aren't always related to news story despite what you think! IMHO!

LarryB said:
Mephy:

perhaps you should describe what you are trying to say with this
picture. then we could comment on that.

otherwise its just a seagulls head.

My2¢
--
LarryB
http://www.fotops.com

--Dan Brownwww.pbase.com/wheatenman'If nothing changes, nothing changes'

fotops · Mar 27, 2002

Dan:

I believe every picture is a story. (news or not)

I didn't understand this story. Thats all.
--LarryB http://www.fotops.com

Hide Takahashi · Mar 27, 2002

Mephy,

How are you doing? This type of shot tends to be plain and boring and the first thing I noticed about this was that the image looked soft,or not sharp.

I don't know what shutter speed you used,but when I do bird shots,I always use S-priority mode to use a higher shutter speed to freeze the bird's head movement. Since there is not much color contrast between the seagull and the ocean it lacks the impact or punch. So,I would've tried to fill the frame with the seagull's image,a sharp image,so that the image could stand out.

Just my opinion.

Hide

Mephy · Mar 28, 2002

Thanx for the hints. The only thing is, I believe when I took this picture, this bird was quite a ways off, and I was in the digital zoom range. Once you get there, it seems to be kinda hard to NOT get a softER image than normal. Here at the settings I used, let me know if I should've done something different:

1/800
F8.0
distance = 90.3mm

Hide Takahashi said:
Mephy,

How are you doing? This type of shot tends to be plain and boring
and the first thing I noticed about this was that the image looked
soft,or not sharp.
I don't know what shutter speed you used,but when I do bird shots,I
always use S-priority mode to use a higher shutter speed to freeze
the bird's head movement. Since there is not much color contrast
between the seagull and the ocean it lacks the impact or punch.
So,I would've tried to fill the frame with the seagull's image,a
sharp image,so that the image could stand out.

Just my opinion.

Hide

--I am the Great I amMephy

Dan Brown · Mar 28, 2002

I guess we have a fundemental difference in the paradigm of art. I can't say your beliefs are wrong, just radically different from myself. I am used to stories having a beginning, middle and end. Art dosen't do that for me. It's a moment of time, a feeling, a question, a statement etc. Certainly not a "story". again IMHO

LarryB said:
Dan:

I believe every picture is a story. (news or not)

I didn't understand this story. Thats all.

--
LarryB
http://www.fotops.com

--Dan Brownwww.pbase.com/wheatenman'If nothing changes, nothing changes'

fotops · Mar 28, 2002

Dan:

Every time I look at an image: I connect with it or I dont.
As I go through my day I blink at all the cool images I could have gotten.
Sometimes (actually ofttimes) I stop on a bridge for that certain image.

Photography is a sport. People play to different levels...

There is a minimum expectation I hold for people who share their images. Whether it is to meet D.O.R.K. initiations requirements, boast, be proud of, learn from.

I believe the image should some redeeming value to:
• be interesting
• be timely
• be considered
• be worked
• be focused
• be well exposed
• be complete
• be able to speak for itself (1000 words)
• be the peak of the performance
otherwise it is point and shot. isnt it?

My 2¢--LarryB http://www.fotops.com

DomDP · Mar 28, 2002

having some fun, and he is learning, I don't see every picture in the world as a story.

Some people have a knack to do that, some don't.

You need to smile more bro.--DomDP-NJC-2100UZPbase Supporter http://www.pbase.com/domdp 'Too many people overvalue what they are not and undervalue what they are.' --Malcom Forbes

Brian · Mar 28, 2002

It must have been very bright out to use a 1/800 F8.0. That is nearly the max the camera can do. That's what my camera adjusts to if I point it straight at a 100w light bulb.

Anyway, the only thing you should do different is to turn your digital zoom off. For almost all shots it is nearly worthless. All it does is gives you soft images.

Mephy said:
1/800
F8.0
distance = 90.3mm

Hide Takahashi said:

Mephy,

How are you doing? This type of shot tends to be plain and boring
and the first thing I noticed about this was that the image looked
soft,or not sharp.
I don't know what shutter speed you used,but when I do bird shots,I
always use S-priority mode to use a higher shutter speed to freeze
the bird's head movement. Since there is not much color contrast
between the seagull and the ocean it lacks the impact or punch.
So,I would've tried to fill the frame with the seagull's image,a
sharp image,so that the image could stand out.

Just my opinion.

Hide

Click to expand...

--
I am the Great I am

Mephy

Mephy · Mar 28, 2002

Yeah, YEAH! Yeah... you tell em..... LoL.... anywayz, ANY picture could tell a story, you just gotta have the creativity to make one up, ex:

As the bird stares me down, I wonder, is he afraid? is he anxious? Is he wondering where Ergo has went with his applianes?!?!?!

DomDP said:
having some fun, and he is learning, I don't see every picture in
the world as a story.

Some people have a knack to do that, some don't.

You need to smile more bro.
--
DomDP-NJ
C-2100UZ
Pbase Supporter

http://www.pbase.com/domdp

'Too many people overvalue what they are not and undervalue what
they are.'
--Malcom Forbes

--I am the Great I amMephy

Brian · Mar 28, 2002

I'm with Larry here. Every picture is a story. It's just some say a lot less than others. "The boy ran. The dog ran....."

Some of my best teachers have been those that were frank, honest and offered advise on how to improve. I like getting praise for what I do, and boy do people get praised around here. But I also, really appreciate it when people offer good concise advise about a picture. Now what I don't like is when people just trash my stuff and don't offer any help in bettering me or my work.

Lary has his own style in helping people. For some his style works, for others it doesn't. Being blunt may not feel good at times, but often it is long lasting medicine.

Hopefully we all take what is said here with a grain of salt 'cause truthfully, most of us here don't produce professional quality pictures on a regular basis.

DomDP said:
having some fun, and he is learning, I don't see every picture in
the world as a story.

Some people have a knack to do that, some don't.

You need to smile more bro.
--
DomDP-NJ
C-2100UZ
Pbase Supporter

http://www.pbase.com/domdp

'Too many people overvalue what they are not and undervalue what
they are.'
--Malcom Forbes

Philip Gammon · Mar 28, 2002

Hi Mephy,

Birds can be tough to photograph. But I think you did a pretty good job.

One comment I have, which has been addressed to a certain extent by yourself and some of the others by cropping the picture, is that you left a lot of "headroom". This is a common fault in a lot of pictures. The photographer puts the subject (the gull's head in your case) in the center of the photograph leaving a lot of empty space in the upper part of the picture.

Have a look here: http://www.pbase.com/image/1144948

It's an example of a gull picture I took. No cropping involved. I was lucky to be close and with the UZi zoom I was able to frame it just right.

I don't want to make it sound like my picture is better than yours but it shows that even though our pictures both show about the same amount of the gull (head and shoulders) mine fills in a lot more of the frame and eliminates the headroom.

So next time if you can get closer or zoom in a bit more you may get better results.

Hope this helps,

Phil

--PBase Supporter http://www.pbase.com/pgammon

Hide Takahashi · Mar 28, 2002

Mephy said:
Thanx for the hints. The only thing is, I believe when I took this
picture, this bird was quite a ways off, and I was in the digital
zoom range. Once you get there, it seems to be kinda hard to NOT
get a softER image than normal. Here at the settings I used, let
me know if I should've done something different:

1/800
F8.0
distance = 90.3mm

Now I know why the image looks soft. If you want a sharp image,don't use the digital zoom. Did you use a teleconverter lens? I don't know what camera you have,but B-300 is an excellent lens. I previously said that I would use S-priority mode to do bird shootings,but you can also use A-priority mode. In this situation, A-priority mode may work better if you're thinking about DOF. If you want to focus on the bird and blurr the background,use a large aperture(small f-#). If you use higher f-#,like f-8,you'll get a deep DOF.

keep on shooting.

Hide

Dan Brown · Mar 28, 2002

Oh, now I get it Larry, you think that you play at a higher level than others. That explains your wonderous self pontificating. People take pictures for many different reasons. I guess your reason is to shoot for a small local newspaper for a local H.S. , and do an occasionaly shot of a building for a property management group. I don't know what "level", that makes you, maybe triple A, to use a baseball comparison. I don't want to burst your bubble but your not all that and a bag of chips!

LarryB said:
Dan:

Every time I look at an image: I connect with it or I dont.
As I go through my day I blink at all the cool images I could have
gotten.
Sometimes (actually ofttimes) I stop on a bridge for that certain
image.

Photography is a sport. People play to different levels...

There is a minimum expectation I hold for people who share their
images. Whether it is to meet D.O.R.K. initiations requirements,
boast, be proud of, learn from.

I believe the image should some redeeming value to:
• be interesting
• be timely
• be considered
• be worked
• be focused
• be well exposed
• be complete
• be able to speak for itself (1000 words)
• be the peak of the performance
otherwise it is point and shot. isnt it?

My 2¢
--
LarryB
http://www.fotops.com

--Dan Brownwww.pbase.com/wheatenman'If nothing changes, nothing changes'

Mephy · Mar 28, 2002

Philip,

Nice shot!! It IS better than mine =). I know what you mean by NOT centering things, it's a habit. Then again, I have only been "into" photography since I have gotten my Uzi, about 5 months ago. So I AM a beginner, I just love the Uzi and it is a great thing to get into photography with.

As for Brian, I HAD to use the digital zoom to get that close to the bird. I know digital zoom takes away from the quality of the picture, but then again, you have to make sacrifices most of the time.

--I am the Great I amMephy

Dan Brown · Mar 28, 2002

After thinking about this post I guess I was wrong with my baseball analogy. After careful reflection and more discriminating evaluation single A ball would be more like it.

Dan Brown said:
LarryB said:

Dan:

Every time I look at an image: I connect with it or I dont.
As I go through my day I blink at all the cool images I could have
gotten.
Sometimes (actually ofttimes) I stop on a bridge for that certain
image.

Photography is a sport. People play to different levels...

There is a minimum expectation I hold for people who share their
images. Whether it is to meet D.O.R.K. initiations requirements,
boast, be proud of, learn from.

I believe the image should some redeeming value to:
• be interesting
• be timely
• be considered
• be worked
• be focused
• be well exposed
• be complete
• be able to speak for itself (1000 words)
• be the peak of the performance
otherwise it is point and shot. isnt it?

My 2¢
--
LarryB
http://www.fotops.com

Click to expand...

--
Dan Brown
http://www.pbase.com/wheatenman

'If nothing changes, nothing changes'

--Dan Brownwww.pbase.com/wheatenman'If nothing changes, nothing changes'

Inigo Montoya · Mar 28, 2002

Actually, with free access to Lanczos interpolation in IrfanView, there's very little need to use digital zoom. You can get as good, or better results by shooting at max optical zoom, cropping, and then upsizing the results. This gives you greater latitude in how to frame/crop the final image. In addition, if you need to do any other post-processing, I believe you'll find that the upsized images will hold up better than the digital zoom out of the camera.

Mephy said:
As for Brian, I HAD to use the digital zoom to get that close to
the bird. I know digital zoom takes away from the quality of the
picture, but then again, you have to make sacrifices most of the
time.

--
I am the Great I am

Mephy

DomDP · Mar 28, 2002

here, Larry's first response was short and harsh and out of place.

I thought he was trying to incite....Now I know what you said, but in this situation I don't care.

Start slow and work into it.

Are you and Larry on the Portrait site yet....WHY NOT...i WANT TO SEE A STORY PLEASE.

Come on you can do it.

))--DomDP-NJC-2100UZPbase Supporter http://www.pbase.com/domdp 'Too many people overvalue what they are not and undervalue what they are.' --Malcom Forbes

Brian · Mar 28, 2002

I'm still saving up for the WA lens. Maybe I'll do a panorama of myself;-)

DomDP said:
Are you and Larry on the Portrait site yet....WHY NOT...i WANT TO
SEE A STORY PLEASE.

Come on you can do it. ))

Daniella68313 · Mar 28, 2002

what i think is both of you have very interesting seagull photo. The photo with the beach is very nice too, but he could use a bit of sharpening on the seagull alone to make it stand out. The beach on the background add a very soft and nice touch of color.

Your photo is also very interesting for the pattern in background, kind of make a strong contrast with the bird.

Yours is a California Seagull

BTW..those birds are easy to attracs by bringing bread, they will come very close.

Philip Gammon said:
Hi Mephy,

Birds can be tough to photograph. But I think you did a pretty good
job.

One comment I have, which has been addressed to a certain extent by
yourself and some of the others by cropping the picture, is that
you left a lot of "headroom". This is a common fault in a lot of
pictures. The photographer puts the subject (the gull's head in
your case) in the center of the photograph leaving a lot of empty
space in the upper part of the picture.

Have a look here: http://www.pbase.com/image/1144948

It's an example of a gull picture I took. No cropping involved. I
was lucky to be close and with the UZi zoom I was able to frame it
just right.

I don't want to make it sound like my picture is better than yours
but it shows that even though our pictures both show about the same
amount of the gull (head and shoulders) mine fills in a lot more of
the frame and eliminates the headroom.

So next time if you can get closer or zoom in a bit more you may
get better results.

Hope this helps,

Phil

--
PBase Supporter
http://www.pbase.com/pgammon

--Daniella http://www.pbase.com/zylenC7OO discussion group: http://www.homepet.com/cgi-bin/c700/UltraBoard.cgi

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