'Traditional' camera clubs and digital shooters

Diane B · Mar 20, 2002

I'm not much of a 'joiner' nor an organization type person, but have been hoping to find some kindred spirits in this area. I've known that there is a quite active camera club and discovered they had a web site. Through that, I made some connections and have been told that they are more interested in the image than the gear (yeah, right!!! smile ). There are a number of them that have been 'published', they hold 'competitions' monthly--one month slide and one month prints-- and the group is divided (by whom I'm not sure) as A and B--A being 'novice' shooters. I also know that a number use PS and inkjet printers--that's a start, but they all shoot film. Several have digicams--I was told one of the best photographers has that 'terrific new digicam', the Minolta Dimage and the person I corresponded with has a G2. He was surprised at my G1 images on my Pbase site and said maybe he needed to work a bit more with his G2. Hmmm--my question is---have any of you tried to 'fit in' to a group that is primarily film based and felt comfortable??---or am I just 'whistling Dixie' (that sort of means--looking for the silver lining for you Euros and others).

I bring this up because of a post by Jason, I think (couldn't find the thread this morning) who mentioned the feeling he got at a camera function of a bit of 'superiority' by the DSLR folks (Canon/Nikon I assume) over the Exx. I'm wondering how much of this type of 'looking askance' at someone who shoots only digital will be in a 'traditional' group like this--and esp. with a non-interchangeable lens SLR. I'd be interested in anyone's experience with something similar.

I plan to go this evening as a visitor. I've been told this is print night and the emphasis is on b/w--so that interested me particularly. Guess I'll find out if this is my cup of tea--or not LOL.

Cheers, Diane--Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries
B/W lover, but color is seducing me

Eric K47856 · Mar 20, 2002

Diane,

If these people are such pricks that they can't see past the gear to the image, then it's probably not worth your time to hang out with them.

If the amount of money spent on gear was an indicator of the photographer's skill, then I would be much better than some of my friends. However, many of them blow me away.

-Eric K

Bruce Paterson · Mar 20, 2002

Diane B said:
I'm not much of a 'joiner' nor an organization type person, but
have been hoping to find some kindred spirits in this area. I've
known that there is a quite active camera club and discovered they
had a web site. Through that, I made some connections and have
been told that they are more interested in the image than the gear
(yeah, right!!! smile ). There are a number of them that have
been 'published', they hold 'competitions' monthly--one month slide
and one month prints-- and the group is divided (by whom I'm not
sure) as A and B--A being 'novice' shooters. I also know that a
number use PS and inkjet printers--that's a start, but they all
shoot film.

Well, I joined my local (Scotland, UK) camera club last autumn and have been having a good time, I've learned a lot about composition and presentation. I shoot entirely in digital with my E-10 and enter the monthly print competition (colour and B&W), 3 prints in each category, card mounted. I'm in the 'A' section and my prints have done very well, I'm currently in 5th place in the colour section with three competitions left to go this season. We have a mix of professionally judged competitions and open competition judged by the members. I print large format on an Epson Photo EX and up to A4 on an Epson 890.

I'm the only 'pure' digital member of the club of around 45 members. The other members take 35mm slides or film, scan and then digitally manipulate and print. No one does 'wet work' any more in colour... the B&W guys do their own processing/printing and it is far more difficult for me to make headway in this group

--Bruce

Diane B · Mar 20, 2002

Bruce Paterson said:
Well, I joined my local (Scotland, UK) camera club last autumn and
have been having a good time, I've learned a lot about composition
and presentation. I shoot entirely in digital with my E-10 and
enter the monthly print competition (colour and B&W), 3 prints in
each category, card mounted. I'm in the 'A' section and my prints
have done very well, I'm currently in 5th place in the colour
section with three competitions left to go this season. We have a
mix of professionally judged competitions and open competition
judged by the members. I print large format on an Epson Photo EX
and up to A4 on an Epson 890.

So--the A/B thing seems to be the norm with camera clubs. That's interesting. I appreciate your input. I, like Eric, think that if they are a bit 'snobby' about gear, then that may be a turn off for me. However, on the other hand, having been involved in the professional crafts world for years, I know how some are about tools, techniques, processes and the like--and expect some level of a bit of 'hostility' toward digital as not being 'traditional'.

Diane--Diane B http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleriesB/W lover, but color is seducing me

Jim Bracegirdle · Mar 20, 2002

Diane B said:
Bruce Paterson said:

Well, I joined my local (Scotland, UK) camera club last autumn and
have been having a good time, I've learned a lot about composition
and presentation. I shoot entirely in digital with my E-10 and
enter the monthly print competition (colour and B&W), 3 prints in
each category, card mounted. I'm in the 'A' section and my prints
have done very well, I'm currently in 5th place in the colour
section with three competitions left to go this season. We have a
mix of professionally judged competitions and open competition
judged by the members. I print large format on an Epson Photo EX
and up to A4 on an Epson 890.

Click to expand...

So--the A/B thing seems to be the norm with camera clubs. That's
interesting. I appreciate your input. I, like Eric, think that if
they are a bit 'snobby' about gear, then that may be a turn off for
me. However, on the other hand, having been involved in the
professional crafts world for years, I know how some are about
tools, techniques, processes and the like--and expect some level of
a bit of 'hostility' toward digital as not being 'traditional'.

Diane
--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries
B/W lover, but color is seducing me

Hello Diane,

I went to our local camera club after an absence of ten years and everyone was so nice that I had come back to see them on Visitors night. Whenever I told some of my old buddies that I had sold all the Leica stuff and was now into digital I felt as if I had said a naughty word. They were all still shooting slides and the women still wanted to prove who could make the best cookies. They are all so happy still in the old groove and not wanting to learn any of that "new computer stuff". I myself enjoy the mental stimulation of the computer and it's so nice not to breathe all the chemicals in the darkroom anymore. I would say go tonight and perhaps the Carolinas are not afraid to step out of their rut and they will surprise you.

I sincerely hope so because I had many good years with the monthly competitions. Not ot mention the bull sessions afterwards whilst sampling the cookies.
Jim.--Jim

Eric K47856 · Mar 20, 2002

I think my original response might have come across as a little harsh. I am well aware that photography is an art, and different people feel that different parts of the art are important. To some, the thing they like most is the smell of the chemicals in the darkroom. To others, it's the ability to produce an amazing effect in photoshop, or just with the naked lens.

I guess what I was trying to say was that if they don't want you in your club, then you'd only be uncomfortable by foisting your current technique on them. If, however, they're open-minded people whose true focus is making a great image, then you'll probably have no problem. Always expect there to be a gearhead around who has invested half his 401k in his Hassy and lenses, and don't expect him to be the warmest fellow regarding your images. On the whole though, hopefully you'll have a welcome reception.

-Eric K

Diane B said:
So--the A/B thing seems to be the norm with camera clubs. That's
interesting. I appreciate your input. I, like Eric, think that if
they are a bit 'snobby' about gear, then that may be a turn off for
me. However, on the other hand, having been involved in the
professional crafts world for years, I know how some are about
tools, techniques, processes and the like--and expect some level of
a bit of 'hostility' toward digital as not being 'traditional'.

Diane
--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries
B/W lover, but color is seducing me

Diane B · Mar 20, 2002

Eric K said:
I think my original response might have come across as a little
harsh. I am well aware that photography is an art, and different
people feel that different parts of the art are important. To
some, the thing they like most is the smell of the chemicals in the
darkroom. To others, it's the ability to produce an amazing effect
in photoshop, or just with the naked lens.

I'm expecting more 'snobbery' (I wracked my brain for a better term because I don't think that's quite it) about not using interchangeable lens, to be truthful, than about digital. I bet if I was using a D1X or 1D there would be more 'connection'. I already know many of them are using Nikons smile .

The fellow I corresponded with did tell me, though, that many of them aren't really computer literate. The club has an online forum but it is only used for a special event because the majority aren't knowledgable about using a mail list or forum. On the other hand, he mentioned that the man who wins the print competitions most often uses PS and never divulges his process until after the competition. So--who knows?!? No way of knowing the acceptance level unless I investigate.

Diane--Diane B http://www.pbase.cClicFpicnic/galleriesB/W lover, but color is seducing me

Paul Jones · Mar 20, 2002

Hi Diane

I joined my local camera club here in the UK (Atherton & District Amateur Photographic Society) about a year ago and it has opened up a whole new hobby for me, as well as a new social life.

Our club has 30 members, of which 4 including me are using digital - 2 using Oly E-20s; one using a Canon G2 and one using a Nikon D1X. The other members use a mix of 35mm and medium format cameras.

At our club it is definitely the 'image' that is important, not the gear. There is definitely no sense of digital V traditional. Everyone is intent on taking the best photos possible with whatever equipment they have.

We have monthly competitions which are judged by an external judge who is not given any details of the print except for its title. The quality is so good that it is hard to differentiate between digital and traditional. I was thrilled when one of my digital prints was chosen as best overall print in the January competition!

I have learned a heck of a lot from membership of the club about composition, etc. I have enjoyed every minute of it.

I would recommend that you go along to your local club and give it a try. It can be quite daunting going to anywhere new for the first time, but I hope that you enjoy a similarly good experience to mine.

Best regards

Paul

--Paul Joneswww.pauljones.org

Jim Bracegirdle · Mar 20, 2002

Jim Bracegirdle said:
Diane B said:

Bruce Paterson said:

Well, I joined my local (Scotland, UK) camera club last autumn and
have been having a good time, I've learned a lot about composition
and presentation. I shoot entirely in digital with my E-10 and
enter the monthly print competition (colour and B&W), 3 prints in
each category, card mounted. I'm in the 'A' section and my prints
have done very well, I'm currently in 5th place in the colour
section with three competitions left to go this season. We have a
mix of professionally judged competitions and open competition
judged by the members. I print large format on an Epson Photo EX
and up to A4 on an Epson 890.

Click to expand...

So--the A/B thing seems to be the norm with camera clubs. That's
interesting. I appreciate your input. I, like Eric, think that if
they are a bit 'snobby' about gear, then that may be a turn off for
me. However, on the other hand, having been involved in the
professional crafts world for years, I know how some are about
tools, techniques, processes and the like--and expect some level of
a bit of 'hostility' toward digital as not being 'traditional'.

Diane
--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries
B/W lover, but color is seducing me

Click to expand...

Hello Diane,
I went to our local camera club after an absence of ten years and
everyone was so nice that I had come back to see them on Visitors
night. Whenever I told some of my old buddies that I had sold all
the Leica stuff and was now into digital I felt as if I had said a
naughty word. They were all still shooting slides and the women
still wanted to prove who could make the best cookies. They are all
so happy still in the old groove and not wanting to learn any of
that "new computer stuff". I myself enjoy the mental stimulation of
the computer and it's so nice not to breathe all the chemicals in
the darkroom anymore. I would say go tonight and perhaps the
Carolinas are not afraid to step out of their rut and they will
surprise you.
I sincerely hope so because I had many good years with the monthly
competitions. Not ot mention the bull sessions afterwards whilst
sampling the cookies.
Jim.
--
Jim

Hello Diane,
Jim should proof read before posting.......

I would say go tonight and perhaps the Carolinas are not afraid to step out of their rut and they will surprise you.

I should have said " perhaps the Carolinas, unlike the local camera club here are not afraid to step out of their rut and will surprise you. Sorry for my goof, just in case I was misunderstood.
Jim.--Jim

bill pitcher · Mar 20, 2002

Diane B said:
So--the A/B thing seems to be the norm with camera clubs.

-------------------------------------------------------
Hi Diane,

The A/B thing is just a way for newcomers to "compete" without going up against the more experienced photographers. A "newbie" would enter the "B" category until they have won a few ribbons. After a predetermined number of wins, you would no longer be eligible to compete in "B", and would then be forced to move up to "A" and be faced with stiffer competition. (I haven't belonged to a club for years, so I'm winging it - but you get the idea.) If you are an experienced photographer, you can start off in the "A" group if you want.

Even if you are not a "joiner", and it turns out not to be for you, a year or two in a camera club can be a very rewarding experience.

Regards,
Bill
http://www.goldenbcphotography.com

Jason Busch · Mar 20, 2002

Diane,

I agree with Paul. "Go for it."

I think those people who use their camera as an instant ticket into a "forbidden" realm, don't get much out of it, until they stop worrying about the brand of the camera have, and start worrying about what the limits of the camera are.

The main reason for me upgrading, is because of limits. And believe me, if I could avoid paying out another chunk of money, I would. I've done it twice, and now I figure, if I do it a third time, I might as well get something that is expandable.

Good luck on your new outing!

--'I do just about everything in my CCDs...'--Forum: http://pub57.ezboard.com/bthedigitaldinguscommunityWebsite: http://e10club.topcities.com/

Diane B · Mar 20, 2002

Diane B said:
I'm not much of a 'joiner' nor an organization type person, but

I plan to go this evening as a visitor. I've been told this is
print night and the emphasis is on b/w--so that interested me
particularly. Guess I'll find out if this is my cup of tea--or not
LOL.

I went this evening and everyone was very nice. There were a few jokes about one of the elder statesmenn (he's pretty well known in the state for his landscapes) having to use a digicam for a small commercial job for the hospital--their camera too. He was referred to as a 'voodoo master' LOL. Tonight was b/w print night--very nice, but none of them seemed really into b/w and many of the priints, I believe, were from the past and pulled out of their archives for this evening. I found the judging by the group to be interesting as were their critiques of each print afterwards. The one thing I did notice was that there were quite a number of digital prints---and that they all seemed sort of in awe of the fact that 2 of the members had an Epson 1280. I'll go again--may even join. The one thing I did think, though, was that I believe they would have been blown away by some of our forum member's b/w work smile .

Cheers, Diane --Diane B http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleriesB/W lover, but color is seducing me

Lou Verruto · Mar 20, 2002

Diane,

Bet on it. Camera Clubs are notoriously elitist.

Diane B said:
I'm not much of a 'joiner' nor an organization type person, but
have been hoping to find some kindred spirits in this area. I've
known that there is a quite active camera club and discovered they
had a web site. Through that, I made some connections and have
been told that they are more interested in the image than the gear
(yeah, right!!! smile ). There are a number of them that have
been 'published', they hold 'competitions' monthly--one month slide
and one month prints-- and the group is divided (by whom I'm not
sure) as A and B--A being 'novice' shooters. I also know that a
number use PS and inkjet printers--that's a start, but they all
shoot film. Several have digicams--I was told one of the best
photographers has that 'terrific new digicam', the Minolta Dimage
and the person I corresponded with has a G2. He was surprised at
my G1 images on my Pbase site and said maybe he needed to work a
bit more with his G2. Hmmm--my question is---have any of you tried
to 'fit in' to a group that is primarily film based and felt
comfortable??---or am I just 'whistling Dixie' (that sort of
means--looking for the silver lining for you Euros and others).

I bring this up because of a post by Jason, I think (couldn't find
the thread this morning) who mentioned the feeling he got at a
camera function of a bit of 'superiority' by the DSLR folks
(Canon/Nikon I assume) over the Exx. I'm wondering how much of
this type of 'looking askance' at someone who shoots only digital
will be in a 'traditional' group like this--and esp. with a
non-interchangeable lens SLR. I'd be interested in anyone's
experience with something similar.

I plan to go this evening as a visitor. I've been told this is
print night and the emphasis is on b/w--so that interested me
particularly. Guess I'll find out if this is my cup of tea--or not
LOL.

Cheers, Diane
--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries
B/W lover, but color is seducing me

-- http://www.pbase.com/louverruto/root

JeanneW · Mar 20, 2002

Hi Diane and thanks for the report. I've thought of this from time to time. I'll probably never do it; but if by some miracle I do, your positive report will give me courage!

Jeanne-- http://www.BowserHome.com

Diane B · Mar 20, 2002

JeanneW said:
Hi Diane and thanks for the report. I've thought of this from time
to time. I'll probably never do it; but if by some miracle I do,
your positive report will give me courage!

Jeanne
--
http://www.BowserHome.com

Jeanne, my feeling was that there might be some resistance to the digicam and that almost everyone there shoots film, but I noticed a cap on one of the younger members--'Nikon/3mp/Coolpix'--so we know that one shoots digitally smile . Then, I know my contact shoots with a G2, one of them has a Minolta Dimage (thse are 'extra' cams though--not their major one)---and there were 2 new ones there, one man/one woman--who said they shoot digitally--one has a Sony and I didn't hear the other. The E10 may very well make a 'statement' the first time we shoot together--by george, with the Lipo and perhaps a converter, it looks really 'tough' as they say LOL. I also think that I probably understand the digital printing process better than they seem to, so my prints may help me. Hopefully I will be able to come up with some decent images as a B member. I was surprised that people pulled from their archives and then found that the time factor isn't important as it is with our challenges, so surely I have some things in my 'archives' that will work and I won't feel too apologetic LOL.

BTW, you don't have to participate in the print/slide competitions. There were a number of didn't bring any b/w prints this evening.

I was very hesitant to go tonight--not because I'm any 'shrinking violet'--that I'm not LOL, but because I was afraid that everyone would be more interested in 'gear' than the prints and that didn't seem the case, so that made me want to go again. I'm most interested in the images.

Diane--Diane B http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleriesB/W lover, but color is seducing me

Marshal · Mar 20, 2002

Pretty simple really. Just go and check it out. If there are a lot of people there with a snooty attitude in one way or another, or just a bad attitude period, don't go back.

If they are an active club and have their act together as far as being serious about photography and not just sitting around b.s.ing, if they are welcoming and patient and willing to help you, if they know how to critique an image without being unneccesarily harsh, but at the same time can give a critique and know what they're talking about, if their photo interests are diverse and provide variety from one month to the next, then you've found a good club.

If after you've been with the club a good while and the best they can do in critiquing is a mealy-mouthed "That's nice" then you're not likely to ever learn much from them.

Take a photography course either for credit or not at a local college or recreation department. The first time I ever took a photo course in college was for a Basic Photo course. I thought it was going to be one of those "easy A" bunny courses, and boy was I in for a surprise! No "Easy A" in that class! If you wanted or expected an A, you'd have to work for it. But I'll tell ya, I really learned the stuff. This was at Western Kentucky University which has one of the best photojournalism departments in the country. Along with the U of MO, they're the best in the U.S. at least.

I was there back in the days when Dave Labelle and Mike Morse were teaching and heading the dept.

Diane B said:
I'm not much of a 'joiner' nor an organization type person, but
have been hoping to find some kindred spirits in this area. I've
known that there is a quite active camera club and discovered they
had a web site. Through that, I made some connections and have
been told that they are more interested in the image than the gear
(yeah, right!!! smile ). There are a number of them that have
been 'published', they hold 'competitions' monthly--one month slide
and one month prints-- and the group is divided (by whom I'm not
sure) as A and B--A being 'novice' shooters. I also know that a
number use PS and inkjet printers--that's a start, but they all
shoot film. Several have digicams--I was told one of the best
photographers has that 'terrific new digicam', the Minolta Dimage
and the person I corresponded with has a G2. He was surprised at
my G1 images on my Pbase site and said maybe he needed to work a
bit more with his G2. Hmmm--my question is---have any of you tried
to 'fit in' to a group that is primarily film based and felt
comfortable??---or am I just 'whistling Dixie' (that sort of
means--looking for the silver lining for you Euros and others).

I bring this up because of a post by Jason, I think (couldn't find
the thread this morning) who mentioned the feeling he got at a
camera function of a bit of 'superiority' by the DSLR folks
(Canon/Nikon I assume) over the Exx. I'm wondering how much of
this type of 'looking askance' at someone who shoots only digital
will be in a 'traditional' group like this--and esp. with a
non-interchangeable lens SLR. I'd be interested in anyone's
experience with something similar.

I plan to go this evening as a visitor. I've been told this is
print night and the emphasis is on b/w--so that interested me
particularly. Guess I'll find out if this is my cup of tea--or not
LOL.

Cheers, Diane
--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries
B/W lover, but color is seducing me

dgrogers · Mar 20, 2002

Diane B said:
I was very hesitant to go tonight--not because I'm any 'shrinking
violet'--that I'm not LOL, but because I was afraid that everyone
would be more interested in 'gear' than the prints and that didn't
seem the case, so that made me want to go again. I'm most
interested in the images.

Oh, you mean we buy our cameras to make images? ARRGGGGGGH! Why didn't anyone tell me this before I bought the E10 (and now the Lipo)???!

Diane B · Mar 21, 2002

dgrogers said:
Oh, you mean we buy our cameras to make images? ARRGGGGGGH! Why
didn't anyone tell me this before I bought the E10 (and now the
Lipo)???!

What is discussed here more--gear or images?? smile

Diane--Diane B http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleriesB/W lover, but color is seducing me

dgrogers · Mar 21, 2002

Diane B said:
What is discussed here more--gear or images?? smile

Diane

Why, gear, of course!! But we get so many new people in here every week with questions about the gear, so it's somewhat expected. Your new friends meet all the time -- you can only talk about a particular lens so many times to the same group of people before everyone gets bored and the group disbands, so I wouldn't expect them to talk about gear all the time. It's still important to know about the gear though, so I imagine gear discussions will pop up from time to time, especially now that you're really introducing digital as a main camera.

A E Hansen · Mar 21, 2002

Marshal said:
Take a photography course either for credit or not at a local
college or recreation department. The first time I ever took a
photo course in college was for a Basic Photo course. I thought it
was going to be one of those "easy A" bunny courses, and boy was I
in for a surprise! No "Easy A" in that class! If you wanted or
expected an A, you'd have to work for it. But I'll tell ya, I
really learned the stuff. This was at Western Kentucky University
which has one of the best photojournalism departments in the
country. Along with the U of MO, they're the best in the U.S. at
least.

You did not find the class too intimidating? I have considered taking one here at Univ. of Missouri, but I will admit that I am sort of afraid to. Photography is just a hooby for me, and this will be more than obvious to the instructor.---- A E Hansen

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