Help! Talk me out of the D1x before Tomorrow!

I'm with BKKSW. Take a look at pictures from the D1X and compare them with pics from the E-xx. Do you see a $3000+ difference? I don't. If you need large prints or fast shots, then maybe you should think about the D60. However, if I were you (and I am following this path myself) stash the $5000 and wait until next year. I have little doubt that you will be glad you did. In the meantime, have fun with your E20.

Bob Howe
I have been reading like crazy!
Maybe Crazy is the operative word here.. The D1X is already over
a year old and it's replacement isn't too far away I'd guess. You
can save money and use the same glass on the D100. We talked about
this in another thread, but my experience with the D1X is that it's
very large and heavy which makes it inappropriate for certain kinds
of use. We are also on the verge of new testing of a new crop of
cameras which will most likely have new features, improved CCD's,
and other nice to have things at half the price..

I personally think by September we'll learn about a new "crop" of
cameras that will put the current crop to shame.. In the
meantime, the E-xx will continue to provide you with an acceptable
tool for your hobby...

I've been there, done that, and had the taste of it in my mouth
only to have a dose of logic and reality strike me microseconds
before opening my wallet..

If you choose to wait, you'll be in good company..

BKKSW
--Bob Howe
 
Jason,
The longer you wait, the cheaper, better, faster technology gets! ;-)
LesDMess
I have been reading like crazy! Visiting other forums! Asking
questions and I am on the Edge! I have the opportunity to buy the
D1x and I have the money, but do I really need it? Maybe I am
trying to work through buyers remorse before I buy the camera. In
my mind I am trying to justify the purchase. I have a passion for
photography but I am not a Pro so I do not make a living with my
camera! Am I going to see that much difference in the Photo
Quality! I have always wanted to own a Pro Body and Lenses so is
this enough reason to buy? If I use the AF Super D Tamron 28-200
Nikon Mount lens until I can afford the Genuine Nikon Glass am I am
going to be disappointed? Is the quality with the Tamron lens and
the D1x goning to be lower than the E-20? How long will it be
before prices fall on the D1x and will it hold is value? My
opportunity for my deal ends tommorrow! No finance charge or
payments for 12 months! Can you see my deliema.

Jason
--
Jason Stoller [email protected]
Catching that special moment with a great camera
--Oly SLR discussion group albums, full size photo and info @ http://www.fototime.com/inv/086F92046880B2F and http://www.fototime.com/inv/20392A0E8516C9A Once in fototime, click on a thumbnail to enlarge in a navigation window.
 
Can you see my deliema.

Jason
--
Jason Stoller [email protected]
Catching that special moment with a great camera
Jason,

You're asking us a lot of questions, which means you're questioning this jump yourself.

In my opinion, if you have that many doubts, you should probably pass on this one. You state that you've always had a desire for pro gear, but not a real need for pro gear.

If it were me (and it sort of is), I'd bank my money for a while and see what else is coming down the pike. These cameras are like computers.......practically obsolete in six months. You have to know that in the next six to nine months something better is going to come along, or the price will drop a bunch.

Like me with my E-10s, I have a desire to upgrade but no need to do so. The 10s are doing everything (and then some) that I need them to do for me and my work. When a real need arises, then I'll make the leap.

My thoughts,

George
 
Tommy don't take me wrong here, I do appreciate your comments and thoughts and I am sorry it came off the way it did. With my E-10 purchase I had absolutely no buyers remorse and that is rare for me. I try to do my homework like everyone else before I purchase and handle the equipment but the sad part here is that I have to drive for three hours just to handle a D1x or find a dealer that has one. One solution is to rent one before I buy and another is to lease one. I agree that money plays a part but its not the only factor and that is what I was trying to say.

Jason
I realize everything is not about the money but it does play a big
part in the toys we buy. If it didn't you probably would have
already bought it and not posted this message and I would go down
there and get a D1X too :-)

Happy shooting...

Tommy
Jason
As far as getting the other camera... if you don't make your living
at it then it would be hard to justify. If you make "some" money
shooting it's borderline. If you just shoot for fun it would
probably be a stretch.

Of course if you have plenty of money then it doesn't really matter
anyhow.

Tommy
I have been reading like crazy! Visiting other forums! Asking
questions and I am on the Edge! I have the opportunity to buy the
D1x and I have the money, but do I really need it? Maybe I am
trying to work through buyers remorse before I buy the camera. In
my mind I am trying to justify the purchase. I have a passion for
photography but I am not a Pro so I do not make a living with my
camera! Am I going to see that much difference in the Photo
Quality! I have always wanted to own a Pro Body and Lenses so is
this enough reason to buy? If I use the AF Super D Tamron 28-200
Nikon Mount lens until I can afford the Genuine Nikon Glass am I am
going to be disappointed? Is the quality with the Tamron lens and
the D1x goning to be lower than the E-20? How long will it be
before prices fall on the D1x and will it hold is value? My
opportunity for my deal ends tommorrow! No finance charge or
payments for 12 months! Can you see my deliema.

Jason
--
Jason Stoller [email protected]
Catching that special moment with a great camera
--
Tommy
--
Jason Stoller [email protected]
Catching that special moment with a great camera
--
Tommy
--Jason Stoller [email protected] that special moment with a great camera
 
Jason,

After reading everyone's opinions on the forum I went ahead and rented an E-10. For the purpose - quick product shots to be inserted in PDF data sheets and the web - I think it was a great piece of equipment. The price is about right at the moment - it was overpriced when it was introduced.

The same store also rents D1X and DCS 760s. I intend to try all these models out before I finally invest in a digital camera.

I want to be able to get a first-hand feel of how each camera handles and performs, the image quality, the shutter lag/write times, noise, etc.

For right now I will probably rent again if I need it for such projects. There's no particular love for film at this point, but a pro camera just isn't justified at the current price points unless you are a professional photographer making good money from photography, or you're loaded with cash.

You can probably try the same - rent/borrow before you buy.

Bharat
 
Diane you raise a good point and I know you were at this spot several months back yourself. I will not be hurting my boys or my girlfriend with this purchase. I have horse traded on many things so I am in my E-20 and some of the accessories at much less than what they would have cost me normally. So I would come out of this with much less invested in the D1x if I go for it. That is one reason I am considering it, but I will take into consideration every comment that is in this thread because others sometimes can see things you cannot see yourself because you are too close to the situation. Remember we had to finally tell you just go for it after many posts and that you would not be sorry if you did. Yes things are moving quickly, just look at all the bags you are buying!

Jason
have arrived at the last Digital camera I will own then I am all
for it
If that's what you are thinking about this purchase, you and I know
that won't work out smile . However, if you can buy this one
wtihout putting you and your close ones in any financial strain,
then its just whether you are willing to shell out that much right
now with things moving so quickly.

Diane
--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries
B/W lover, but color is seducing me
--Jason Stoller [email protected] that special moment with a great camera
 
Jason, do it. Be miserable like the rest of us. Every time you pick up that camera you can think of the downpayment on that condo in St. Croix. Now, all you'll be able to do is take a PICTURE of that condo, with the beautiful women on the veranda, looking out on the azure Carribean sea, the coral, the electric sky.

But,hey, the picture will be razor sharp, fabously contrasted, resolution to spare, and , in the end, the photo will be so stunning, no one will believe you blew that incredible condo for that camera. But, see, without the camera, no one will ever know.

So, get the camera.
I have been reading like crazy! Visiting other forums! Asking
questions and I am on the Edge! I have the opportunity to buy the
D1x and I have the money, but do I really need it? Maybe I am
trying to work through buyers remorse before I buy the camera. In
my mind I am trying to justify the purchase. I have a passion for
photography but I am not a Pro so I do not make a living with my
camera! Am I going to see that much difference in the Photo
Quality! I have always wanted to own a Pro Body and Lenses so is
this enough reason to buy? If I use the AF Super D Tamron 28-200
Nikon Mount lens until I can afford the Genuine Nikon Glass am I am
going to be disappointed? Is the quality with the Tamron lens and
the D1x goning to be lower than the E-20? How long will it be
before prices fall on the D1x and will it hold is value? My
opportunity for my deal ends tommorrow! No finance charge or
payments for 12 months! Can you see my deliema.

Jason
--
Jason Stoller [email protected]
Catching that special moment with a great camera
-- http://www.pbase.com/louverruto/root
 
Jason:

Jumping from the Exx ship means jumping into a crazy world of glass and bodies, just like trying to find someone to marry, trying to make sure that you will stay with that person forever...

Well, the reality is that the D1x, as well as the D60, for instance, have spatial resolution that is pretty , damn close to the best optics out there.

You need , you must have to get the best possible glass for the camera, and it needs to be bright too. I strongly suggest you to consider saving an additional $1000 to find the lens/lenses that will allow you to extract the juice from it.

As an example of the opposite, the E10 lenses has substantially higher resolution than the on-board 3.9 Mp CCD. Basically, the exact same lens was used to feed the 5.0 Mp sensor of the E20, and images come out sharp, and clear.

I need to see this problem solved, before I even think of moving on. I really think that the optics are of paramount importance.

Kind regards,

Ferenc
I have been reading like crazy! Visiting other forums! Asking
questions and I am on the Edge! I have the opportunity to buy the
D1x and I have the money, but do I really need it? Maybe I am
trying to work through buyers remorse before I buy the camera. In
my mind I am trying to justify the purchase. I have a passion for
photography but I am not a Pro so I do not make a living with my
camera! Am I going to see that much difference in the Photo
Quality! I have always wanted to own a Pro Body and Lenses so is
this enough reason to buy? If I use the AF Super D Tamron 28-200
Nikon Mount lens until I can afford the Genuine Nikon Glass am I am
going to be disappointed? Is the quality with the Tamron lens and
the D1x goning to be lower than the E-20? How long will it be
before prices fall on the D1x and will it hold is value? My
opportunity for my deal ends tommorrow! No finance charge or
payments for 12 months! Can you see my deliema.

Jason
--
Jason Stoller [email protected]
Catching that special moment with a great camera
 
Lets consider for the moment that there are always going to be new things coming out. I could sell my E-20 gear and get a good price now and just shoot my E-100rs. I could use General fractals to make the larger prints I desire. I would be spending much less than $5000 for this purchase but you are right I could stash it and wait. For large prints I could use General Fractals on the E-20 prints also. I shoot wildlife, sports, architecture, and people. So speed is a concern for me at this point. I have shot some sports with the E-10 when I had it and yes you can be sucessful part of the time. I have not experimented with the E-20 and progressive mode in this area yet. I personally feel the Tcon-300s is too hard to use for active sporting events and its not usable in dark situations such as a night time football game. So in my opinion there is going to be some differences. If I could mount Canon Glass on a Nikon Body then I probably would be very happy. If I do take your advice and stash the money then do I stash it when something better comes out next year as well. Its just a vicious cycle. I think sooner or later you make a choice and get out of the cycle for a while. Many did with the E-10! Sooner or later they will make choices too.

Jason
Bob Howe
I have been reading like crazy!
Maybe Crazy is the operative word here.. The D1X is already over
a year old and it's replacement isn't too far away I'd guess. You
can save money and use the same glass on the D100. We talked about
this in another thread, but my experience with the D1X is that it's
very large and heavy which makes it inappropriate for certain kinds
of use. We are also on the verge of new testing of a new crop of
cameras which will most likely have new features, improved CCD's,
and other nice to have things at half the price..

I personally think by September we'll learn about a new "crop" of
cameras that will put the current crop to shame.. In the
meantime, the E-xx will continue to provide you with an acceptable
tool for your hobby...

I've been there, done that, and had the taste of it in my mouth
only to have a dose of logic and reality strike me microseconds
before opening my wallet..

If you choose to wait, you'll be in good company..

BKKSW
--
Bob Howe
--Jason Stoller [email protected] that special moment with a great camera
 
(Sumoning dark side powers)

Ok Jason - You don't need it. This is the worst camera I have ever used. The lenses are simply too sharp for any good use. I find that the resolution is too much as it brings out skin flaws in my portrait subjects. It weighs 2.5 pounds with no lens and battery and can be used as a weapon. The buffer writes too fast so it makes me feel like I shoot too slow.

uh...

ah hell - if you have the cash... welcome to the dark side. Just be seriously forewarned that this is a pro camera and needs to be cared for. Dust is not a huge issue by any means (ask anyone who actually owns an DSLR) but it does require some cleaning attention which does cost money. You have access to the innards of the camera and must exercise caution... I know alot of people want to see a CCD first hand and want to lock the shutter up and take a peak... (I did this with the first D30 I shot - hehehe.) But I'll tell you to resist.

Lenses can make the camera good or bad. I use an 80-200 f/2.8 AFS lens (which for those keeping track that's a 105-300 with the FOV crop,) for my sports and it is the sharpest zoom lens I have ever seen period. But the price is enough to make your heart skip as it weigs in at $1500. I have a few Sigma and Tamron lenses that do the camera NO justice at all. They are simply horrible. Flat colors, little contrast, & smudgy detail are a few orf their traits. I do have one Tamron lens (20-40mm) that gives me good results, but it is a stopgap until I can get a 17-35 AFS Nikkor. Lenses are an addiction, and you may as well buy drugs because they are just as expensive. See my lens list at JB's forum.

You need to become educated a bit more on yet another system as you have alot of camera options to work with. Using an Olympus, a Nikon, and a Canon are like going from driving a car with steering on the right side to one that steers on the left. "Different - but same." There is more expenses that can be acrued with the software required to use the camera's RAW ability - but it's WELL worth the expense of Bibble if you don't already have it.

I don't know what else to say. I've been using the D1x nonstop for months now and couldn't be happier with the results, but I couldn't bring myself to part with the E-10. I don't use the E-10 much for my own work at all (except macro occasionally) but I do use it to educate my fiance. She gets great use out of it. So while I can see you replacing your E-10 with the D1x, I think if monitarily possible, keep the E-10... you never know.

I don't know if this what you wanted to hear - but good luck in your decision.
--Regards,Joe H.---------------------------------------www.biggerboatstudios.com
 
There were different versions of the Tamron 28-200 released. I still own mine and is the Super D ED AIS lens that was written up and highly praised in Popular Science. I have been very happy with this lens and shot many rolls with my N70 and this lens and I have had very good results. Granted I have not tried an equivelent Nikon lens because at the time they did not offer it. I was not talked into this lens I asked for it. I am sure there are much better lenses out there. I was only going to make use of it until I pick out the lenses I want and could afford them. I would be in the same place if I buy the Canon D60, Nikon D100, or Sigma. One of the best things about the E-10/E20 is the quality of the glass in it. I did not buy all my accessories before I bought the E-10, in fact I waited until I was sure I wanted them before I plunked down my money. So I figured I could do the same with the Nikon.

Jason
When I bought my Canon EOS A2 35mm body I also got talked into a
Tamron 28-200 lens "for the value". After one use I promptly
returned it and paid the difference for a Canon 28-105. I'd like to
have the extra zoom range the 28-200 gave me but the image quality
improvement I found in the Canon lens was well worth the price and
zoom difference. The pictures I got with the Tamron lens were soft
and low in contrast compared to pictures taken with the Canon glass
in similar conditions.

My advise? If you can't afford to buy the body AND a Nikon lens to
go with it... WAIT! I believe that you will regret spending your $$
on a Tamron lens to go on a PRO body. If you have the money and
don't mind blowing it then go for the camera and a Nikon lens from
the start.

I'm actually in the same situation you have found yourself in. I
don't make any money with my cameras so I can't justify spending
the required investment to do the 35mm body/D-SLR/interchangeable
lens right, as in good body/good glass together.

Until my budget, needs, or the options/price ranges available
change in my favor I am not going to drop that kind of money with
no return expected other than noiseless images and fast write
times... I just can't imagine being able to get through buyers
remorse if I made the move you are contemplating. I'm afraid that
you'll regret it as well when what you REALLY want comes out in
less than one year and you have to contemplate unloading your new
old rig for the NEW new rig. I'd just about be willing to bet that
whatever you get won't be the last digital camera you will want. :-)

Hold out, man. It's only going to get better... and cheaper!
--
PW
Nikon CoolPix 990/995
Olympus E-10
--Jason Stoller [email protected] that special moment with a great camera
 
Bill why I appreciate your attempt to comment why is it that you always seem to post something negative or are always attempting to put others down for their choices. Are you angry all the time or what? Did the olympus users do something to you personally? If you had read the whole post I made I was refering to using a lens I already owned and had used until I find the ones I really want to buy. Just because it does not say Canon or Nikon on it does not mean its bad glass or a bad lense. Others have discovered that lenses do have sweet spots and in my experience I have found that there are some after market lenses that do quite a good job. Until someone comes out with lenses specially made for Digital like Olympus did in the E-10 E-20 series I don't think any lens is going to be perfect. By the way do you use Heliopan and B &W filters only?

Jason
Why are there so many E## owners, think they can get a
camera for around $2100. All you get is a body, no lens. Then they
think the can cut back on the qualitiy of the lens.

If you buy an excellent camera put the best glass infront of it.

The correct answer is:

"A D60 starting at $2,100 is very tempting."

These cameras do not have lens that screw on top of the
camera's len like the E##.

My Two Cents

Bill
--Jason Stoller [email protected] that special moment with a great camera
 
If it were me (and it sort of is), I'd bank my money for a while
and see what else is coming down the pike. These cameras are like
computers.......practically obsolete in six months. You have to
know that in the next six to nine months something better is going
to come along, or the price will drop a bunch.
I'll have to disagree with you on this statement. Cameras are like PC's in that the tech is always advancing. The camera does not become incapable of taking a picture when a new one is released. Look at the current crop of original D1 owners. The camera had it quirks and problems like the rest of them, but many users still use it and get incredible results. Because you are buying into a system (ie - lenses etc.) you will have more flexability with keeping the camera in use. They aren't going to stop making acessories (with the Exx series, if the Olydak appears, Exx users will most likely have to start from scratch if they want to upgrade.)

The resale value on pro cameras are actually not that bad. The going price of a used D1 is still more than a D60 (D100?) because if it's abilities. Anyone who is selling a pro body is most likely not taking a loss because the camera has already paid for itself many times over. Also the lens value does not decrease by much at all. Buying used glass (unless it's abused) you're still paying top dollar.

--Regards,Joe H.---------------------------------------www.biggerboatstudios.com
 
Give me a minute to clear my thoat

Baaaaaa!

If you want to see an 100-400 L zoom in action go over to the
Samples and Galleries forum, find

"Zooming in from the Eiffel tower", by Toussaint

Here is the link

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1005&message=2346844

Amazing lens!

Bill
Again we agree. This is getting scary, your starting to think like
a sheep.

I got the cheaper 75-300mm zoom for the D30, and so far it's
working pretty good for me, but I'm sure I'll be wanting a better
peice of glass eventually.

Actually I do lust for the 100-400 L zoom.. hehehe but $1,200 min
price is still just a bit steep for me. :o(

I still carry both camera's with me, and my extra E-lens in a
smaller camera bag. I can't wait to really get out there and put
them both through the pace's though.
Why are there so many E## owners, think they can get a
camera for around $2100. All you get is a body, no lens. Then they
think the can cut back on the qualitiy of the lens.

If you buy an excellent camera put the best glass infront of it.

The correct answer is:

"A D60 starting at $2,100 is very tempting."

These cameras do not have lens that screw on top of the
camera's len like the E##.

My Two Cents

Bill
--
Vance.

http://users.ev1.net/~txcowboy

http://pub57.ezboard.com/bthedigitaldinguscommunity
 
Trash it ASAP - trust me.

Grab a Nikkor 28-105 macro or a 24-200. If you have some dough - the 28-70 AFS is a God send!
--Regards,Joe H.---------------------------------------www.biggerboatstudios.com
 
Thanks Joe! You have been very helpful to me when I have asked you questions in regard to your camera. I not remember your screen name or I would have sent you an Im several times. I happened upon what I think is a decent deal for me but as you said I have a lot to learn yet and more expenses in front of me if I make the leap.

Jason
(Sumoning dark side powers)

Ok Jason - You don't need it. This is the worst camera I have ever
used. The lenses are simply too sharp for any good use. I find
that the resolution is too much as it brings out skin flaws in my
portrait subjects. It weighs 2.5 pounds with no lens and battery
and can be used as a weapon. The buffer writes too fast so it
makes me feel like I shoot too slow.

uh...

ah hell - if you have the cash... welcome to the dark side. Just
be seriously forewarned that this is a pro camera and needs to be
cared for. Dust is not a huge issue by any means (ask anyone who
actually owns an DSLR) but it does require some cleaning attention
which does cost money. You have access to the innards of the
camera and must exercise caution... I know alot of people want to
see a CCD first hand and want to lock the shutter up and take a
peak... (I did this with the first D30 I shot - hehehe.) But I'll
tell you to resist.

Lenses can make the camera good or bad. I use an 80-200 f/2.8 AFS
lens (which for those keeping track that's a 105-300 with the FOV
crop,) for my sports and it is the sharpest zoom lens I have ever
seen period. But the price is enough to make your heart skip as it
weigs in at $1500. I have a few Sigma and Tamron lenses that do
the camera NO justice at all. They are simply horrible. Flat
colors, little contrast, & smudgy detail are a few orf their
traits. I do have one Tamron lens (20-40mm) that gives me good
results, but it is a stopgap until I can get a 17-35 AFS Nikkor.
Lenses are an addiction, and you may as well buy drugs because they
are just as expensive. See my lens list at JB's forum.

You need to become educated a bit more on yet another system as you
have alot of camera options to work with. Using an Olympus, a
Nikon, and a Canon are like going from driving a car with steering
on the right side to one that steers on the left. "Different - but
same." There is more expenses that can be acrued with the software
required to use the camera's RAW ability - but it's WELL worth the
expense of Bibble if you don't already have it.

I don't know what else to say. I've been using the D1x nonstop for
months now and couldn't be happier with the results, but I couldn't
bring myself to part with the E-10. I don't use the E-10 much for
my own work at all (except macro occasionally) but I do use it to
educate my fiance. She gets great use out of it. So while I can
see you replacing your E-10 with the D1x, I think if monitarily
possible, keep the E-10... you never know.

I don't know if this what you wanted to hear - but good luck in
your decision.

--
Regards,
Joe H.

---------------------------------------
http://www.biggerboatstudios.com
--Jason Stoller [email protected] that special moment with a great camera
 
William I will be happy to look and then I will compare it to my own pictures I took with the E-10 when I was there and photographed it myself in April of last year!

Jason
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Baaaaaa!

If you want to see an 100-400 L zoom in action go over to the
Samples and Galleries forum, find

"Zooming in from the Eiffel tower", by Toussaint

Here is the link

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1005&message=2346844

Amazing lens!

Bill
Again we agree. This is getting scary, your starting to think like
a sheep.

I got the cheaper 75-300mm zoom for the D30, and so far it's
working pretty good for me, but I'm sure I'll be wanting a better
peice of glass eventually.

Actually I do lust for the 100-400 L zoom.. hehehe but $1,200 min
price is still just a bit steep for me. :o(

I still carry both camera's with me, and my extra E-lens in a
smaller camera bag. I can't wait to really get out there and put
them both through the pace's though.
Why are there so many E## owners, think they can get a
camera for around $2100. All you get is a body, no lens. Then they
think the can cut back on the qualitiy of the lens.

If you buy an excellent camera put the best glass infront of it.

The correct answer is:

"A D60 starting at $2,100 is very tempting."

These cameras do not have lens that screw on top of the
camera's len like the E##.

My Two Cents

Bill
--
Vance.

http://users.ev1.net/~txcowboy

http://pub57.ezboard.com/bthedigitaldinguscommunity
--Jason Stoller [email protected] that special moment with a great camera
 
Any time we all review E## photos we are all using the same lens.
When reviewing any D30/D60 photos the question has to be what lens
was used. That information is not in the EXIF. To me not putting
the best glass on your camera is like putting a shade or the len. Yes you
still get the photo, but not the best.

I feel very lucky to beable to buy "L" lens and not hurt my bank account.
If that if the best you can spend, then go for it. But "L" lust is for REAL!

Bill
 
I think our situations have more in common than I originally thought. I think you NEED someone to talk you OUT of the D1X but you WANT someone to talk you INTO it...

It appears to me that you've made your decision. I don't know why you posted this thread?!? I'd bet that you're going to buy the D1X tomorrow... :-)

--PW
 

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