Thank you. We're both now dry and well fed and I'm all the mellower for a bottle of Herefordshire's finest.
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Can we get rid of Xania?
- Thread starter Peter Nelson
- Start date
Jono Slack
Forum Pro
I'm afraid I've been hitting the red wine a little - what sort of dog is it that likes this weather? One of ours does . . . .the other one won't even go out for a wee!
best wishes
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Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk
J
Jim Radcliffe
Guest
I relish free speech as well but have nothing but disdain for those who abuse it... and yes, it is being abused here by one individual.
This is not a country. This is a forum. Ixania has every right to use it.. but she has no right to abuse it.
Very childish, very objectionable and just what she wants it to be.
I have to disagree with you on this... this is not about free speech. This is about one individual trying to create trouble in a forum. If you can't see it for what it is I must say I am a bit disturbed by your inability to fathom Ixiania's motives. Read her/his posts... they speak for themselves and add nothing of value to this forum.
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Jim Radcliffe
http://www.image36.com
http://www.oceona.com
http://www.boxedlight.com/Leicasonic
The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear.
Jono Slack
Forum Pro
Of COURSE I can see it for what it is, but in my household it's the person who starts an argument about a fatuous remark or insult who is to blame for the argument - not the person who made the remark (they're only to blame for making the remark).
I thought that the whole principal of the internet was that there wasn't censorship. Surely in this forum (of all forums) we're grown up enough not to allow ourselves to rise to such simple troublemaking as ixania represents.
Let's not us have an argument about it (after all Jim, we agree about most things!).
best wishes
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Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk
J
Jim Radcliffe
Guest
No, sorry, that was not the principal of the Internet. And we are not talking about the Internet. We are talking about Phil's forum.
Free speech... go to usenet and a newsgroups that have absolutly no censorship.. view the chaos there.
My point again is that we should not have to deal with it in the first place.
Sorry Jono, but when someone enters a pub in real life and begins to insult everyone in the place and set themseleves up as some grand authority... me thinks they are not long for that pub.
I'll not argue the point any further... and I will not say "I told you so" when Ixania crosses the line again and creates more havoc here in what has been a very nice port of refuge from the other troll-infested forums at dpreview.
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Jim Radcliffe
http://www.image36.com
http://www.oceona.com
http://www.boxedlight.com/Leicasonic
The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear.
Jono Slack
Forum Pro
LOL - well, at least we understand each other, and we can agree that this place is a nice port of refuge - not, I think, spoilt by this particular discussion.
Have a great evening.
best wishes
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Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk
Peter Nelson
Veteran Member
euston,
Your wrong here. I did not recently have a run in with ixania, not at all. Go back and read the threads again.
What happened here was I was trying to read a thread and I saw so many posts from Ixania and in each one she belittled the posters.
Then I did make a post and in it I asked Ixania to learn not to do this.
But later I felt what was the point? I used to defend her and I have several times encourged her to post images and to get into proper dialogs with the other people posting images rather than to just compare them to H.C.B. or otherwise insult them.
But I remembered in the past she has been cruel to many people posting images taken with a Digital Leica. People just posting an image and saying things like-I just got my Leica and here is one from today. She would always tear them apart and insult them when she found such a post.
BTW I notice that you and another person here has jumped on me every time I have made a bad post, from last December I remember you two were really on my case. Kind of like double teaming me and going after me. The incident was over a misunderstanding. Joe BT with whom I now get along with very well had complained about bad colors on his new digital Leica, at the time I was overly defensive toward Leica and I was not very nice to him. But 2 of you really nailed me and would not let up. Then you did the same thing again when VLuxor was making a lot of posts complaining about Leica Film camera users should not be allowed to post here. You got on me again. I got so upset with her because I am a Leica film camera user and I was one of the original people aking Phil to create a Leica Forum on dpreview. In essance if she had her way I would not be allowed to post any of my Leica M5 images. I got so upset I did call her a digital ****. The key word was digital. Also at that time I was unaware of the deep feelings that people have about this name ****. But I took it to heart and realized I made a poor post and I apologized.
Believe it or not I once jumped on Jim Radcliff because I misunderstood the title of one of his photographic image posts. I told him it was misleading. We talked about it and we both let it go. Since then I have nothing but respect for him and I am sure I won't be misunderstading his titles anymore. I have learned a lot from Jim, about proper posting.
I have not had any other incidents in my 3 years here at dpreview that I can remember.
Most of my posts I encourage people who are learning and give answers to there questions. That's exactly why I asked Phill to create the Leica Talk forum.
The last thing is, I understand that I am a little hot headed, now I really do see this. But I have learned from this and make every effort to be a good poster.
I think you should give me a chance because I am aware that I was sometimes making bad posts and I'm making an effort to be a good member.
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Artist Eyes
Your wrong here. I did not recently have a run in with ixania, not at all. Go back and read the threads again.
What happened here was I was trying to read a thread and I saw so many posts from Ixania and in each one she belittled the posters.
Then I did make a post and in it I asked Ixania to learn not to do this.
But later I felt what was the point? I used to defend her and I have several times encourged her to post images and to get into proper dialogs with the other people posting images rather than to just compare them to H.C.B. or otherwise insult them.
But I remembered in the past she has been cruel to many people posting images taken with a Digital Leica. People just posting an image and saying things like-I just got my Leica and here is one from today. She would always tear them apart and insult them when she found such a post.
BTW I notice that you and another person here has jumped on me every time I have made a bad post, from last December I remember you two were really on my case. Kind of like double teaming me and going after me. The incident was over a misunderstanding. Joe BT with whom I now get along with very well had complained about bad colors on his new digital Leica, at the time I was overly defensive toward Leica and I was not very nice to him. But 2 of you really nailed me and would not let up. Then you did the same thing again when VLuxor was making a lot of posts complaining about Leica Film camera users should not be allowed to post here. You got on me again. I got so upset with her because I am a Leica film camera user and I was one of the original people aking Phil to create a Leica Forum on dpreview. In essance if she had her way I would not be allowed to post any of my Leica M5 images. I got so upset I did call her a digital ****. The key word was digital. Also at that time I was unaware of the deep feelings that people have about this name ****. But I took it to heart and realized I made a poor post and I apologized.
Believe it or not I once jumped on Jim Radcliff because I misunderstood the title of one of his photographic image posts. I told him it was misleading. We talked about it and we both let it go. Since then I have nothing but respect for him and I am sure I won't be misunderstading his titles anymore. I have learned a lot from Jim, about proper posting.
I have not had any other incidents in my 3 years here at dpreview that I can remember.
Most of my posts I encourage people who are learning and give answers to there questions. That's exactly why I asked Phill to create the Leica Talk forum.
The last thing is, I understand that I am a little hot headed, now I really do see this. But I have learned from this and make every effort to be a good poster.
I think you should give me a chance because I am aware that I was sometimes making bad posts and I'm making an effort to be a good member.
--
Artist Eyes
evshrug2
Leading Member
Rocket scientists are pretty much what made it possible to get to the moon. And the scientists that set the stage for that (like say, Isaac Newton), are pre-rocket rocket scientists in my book!
Plus, they're much better at calculus than I want to be...
Evshrug
P.S. At least ixania hasn't said anything here yet...
Peter Nelson
Veteran Member
If she posts in this thread I'd welcome her.
I'm still willing to let her make efforts to change her attidude and engage anyone of us in a meaningfull dialog. If she could do this without the high handed comments. You know, to actually talk to one of us and not down to us.
If she would then I'd forget my original idea for this thread in a hertbeat. I have kind of felt terrible since starting this post. But I'm so tired of her insulting way's.
She can keep praising H.C.B. as that's a good thing. I just I hope she stops holding the new owners of the M8 and Digilux 2 and 3 up to him and then with the obvious result that were not as good as him saying therefore we should not have bought a Leica.
Hello Izania if your reading - Hello.
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Artist Eyes
I'm still willing to let her make efforts to change her attidude and engage anyone of us in a meaningfull dialog. If she could do this without the high handed comments. You know, to actually talk to one of us and not down to us.
If she would then I'd forget my original idea for this thread in a hertbeat. I have kind of felt terrible since starting this post. But I'm so tired of her insulting way's.
She can keep praising H.C.B. as that's a good thing. I just I hope she stops holding the new owners of the M8 and Digilux 2 and 3 up to him and then with the obvious result that were not as good as him saying therefore we should not have bought a Leica.
Hello Izania if your reading - Hello.
--
Artist Eyes
KAllen
Senior Member
I wouldn't bother. It's like some religions that can't take a bad comment without issueing death threat, it must be a very weak religion if it can not take a criticism. Also Xania might not always be wrong. Take it for what it is, a few words in cyber-space.
Kevin.
Kevin.
Strider is a Collie cross and doesn't mind the weather at all. He's a former gentleman of the road (AKA stray), which may account for it. We've had him for a year and he still won't drink from his water bowl indoors. He prefers puddles and watering cans and ponds. Our other dog, Alfred, is a Parson Russell Terrier (basically a Jack Russell with proper legs). He's a rough tough Jack the lad in most respects but he doesn't like wind and rain.
I've just measured the daily rainfall - 35.3mm over the last 24 hours. Getting on for an inch and a half. That's a lot for Southern England.
And, as the target of Peter Nelson's offensive behaviour (having once referred to me as a **** in one of his posts, then refusing to apologize until he was shamed into it), I second what Euston just said. What is that they say, "like the pot calling the kettle black?" Peter Nelson needs to take a long, hard look in the mirror before starting a thread like this.
I'm the one Peter called a ****, and he apologized only after refusing to apologize, and only when he was shamed into it. I have not responded to a post of his since, and have been very careful to avoid him on this forum. His attack left it's mark. Please don't trivialize it, and say he apologized. The subsequent apology was not even sincere.
If I had started this post, it would have been called "Can we get rid of Peter Nelson?" Luckily for him, I'm not that rude. In my opinion, Ixania isn't nearly as much a nuisance as Peter Nelson, and much more easily ignored. For me to make a simple statement like, "This is a digital forum," and be attacked and called a digital **** by Peter Nelson for stating what is an undeniable fact, is unbelievably offensive. If memory serves, I didn't suggest people stop posting, I only said how tired I was of seeing so many posts about film on a digital forum, and I pointed out the there is a Leica users forum that has a film section. His responses to my post showed he does not support freedom of speech. He labeled me a film hater, and that is simply not true. My big mistake was in trying to defend my position against his attacks, and those of others. I should have just had my say, and moved on. And, in response to anyone who thinks I am dwelling on the past, I am not. But, given the topic of this thread, and my history with the person who started it, I felt I should speak up.
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Seriously, have you never read a history book? Have you been living under a rock for the past 50+ years? You really expect us to believe you did not think calling someone a **** would be considered offensive?
HansAlbert
Veteran Member
- Messages
- 5,067
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- 199
On March 19, Peter Nelson wrote:
„I apologize. When I called you a "digital ****" I was so upset with you for writing that Leica Film users should post on another web site my emotions took over. It was a gut feeling of pain and I gave in to it.I am sorry Vluxor.”
How often must a member of this forum repeat an apology ?
It must have been painful enough to post it, a self-punishment in public, and one punishment for one mistake is enough, at least according to my understanding of humanity.
„I apologize. When I called you a "digital ****" I was so upset with you for writing that Leica Film users should post on another web site my emotions took over. It was a gut feeling of pain and I gave in to it.I am sorry Vluxor.”
How often must a member of this forum repeat an apology ?
It must have been painful enough to post it, a self-punishment in public, and one punishment for one mistake is enough, at least according to my understanding of humanity.
J
Jim Radcliffe
Guest
Well, you say you are not that rude but then you just wrote it in the above sentence... what's the point? So you have an axe to grind with Peter, be an adult and get over it. He has apologized, forced or not, he apologized... Ixania never apologizes for anything.
You can't let it go... it's over.
Leica is a different animal than most cameras.. nothing wrong with film being mentioned here.. it is the heritage almost all of us come from... and Leica gave birth to the 35mm format.
Exactly.
Well, let's be honest. You have brought up the past. Peter has aplogizied. You don't want to let it die. Look, we all learn from our mistakes. I doubt you'll see anything else from Peter like what happened in the past.
Truth.... take some time to get to know each other and within six months you'll never believe any of it ever happened. I often get in tremendous fights/battles/disagreements with friends over subjects that I feel very passionate about... but in the end, we are friends. And what a loss it would be if that were not the case.
We should all be friends here... including ixania... but she has no such interest.
None of what I have written to you should be considered and attack on you. It is not. This forum has been so much better than the others because of the lack of flame wars, etc.. this entire thread was generated by one persons total disrespect for those in this forum.. and I am not talking about Peter.
You, me, Peter, Jono, Tashley, and so many more here, can learn from each other and enrich and expand our circle of friends... don't let stupid mistakes ruin that opportunity. We all do dumb thinks occasionally.
Remember that forgivness is hard to master but has great rewards.
--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.image36.com
http://www.oceona.com
http://www.boxedlight.com/Leicasonic
The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear.
J
Jim Radcliffe
Guest
Ok.. sorry it turned out that way. I, by no means wish to tell you what to do, not my right, not my call. I just prefer to see harmony in these forums. Arguing is the easiest thing to do here. Anonymity and miles make it easy to say things we would not say to another in person.
Early on, when I first joined DPReview, I got into to some heated threads with a few people.. I wrote some things I was not particularly proud of and regretted doing so. I made a point of mending fences with those I offended and today I am much better for it. I eventually invited one individual to meet me in Dallas for a big concert/photo op. We sat and talked for hours and I felt so much better for it. We are friends now.
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Jim Radcliffe
http://www.image36.com
http://www.oceona.com
http://www.boxedlight.com/Leicasonic
The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear.
Jim, my assessment of Peter's manners has to do with observation over a period of time, not with the one incident in which I feel I became his target, and I did let it go, until a bit of my anger popped up again after seeing this thread. When I witness how volatile someone can become over his interpretation of what others say, I tend to avoid any contact with that person.
Peter's response to my comment caused other members of the forum to jump in and start attacking me based on what he said, not what I wrote. When I was able to clarify my point with the others who were attacking me, they all apologized. Peter did not apologize right away, even when Euston was demanding that he do so, but by the time he finally offered his apology, too much damage had already been done.
People who go around verbally abusing (or physically abusing) others because they can't control their tempers count on the more reasonable among us to always forgive them for their behaviour, or call for forgiveness. They should instead learn to think first of the consequences of their actions, something most of us learned as children.
As for whether or not there should be entire thread devoted to film on this forum, I stand by my previously stated opinion. I'm not telling others what to do; I'm simply voicing my opinion. It should be my right to do so.
Peter's response to my comment caused other members of the forum to jump in and start attacking me based on what he said, not what I wrote. When I was able to clarify my point with the others who were attacking me, they all apologized. Peter did not apologize right away, even when Euston was demanding that he do so, but by the time he finally offered his apology, too much damage had already been done.
People who go around verbally abusing (or physically abusing) others because they can't control their tempers count on the more reasonable among us to always forgive them for their behaviour, or call for forgiveness. They should instead learn to think first of the consequences of their actions, something most of us learned as children.
As for whether or not there should be entire thread devoted to film on this forum, I stand by my previously stated opinion. I'm not telling others what to do; I'm simply voicing my opinion. It should be my right to do so.
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