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Notebook Screen...Is Glossy Bad? For PS

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Hollie

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I'm going to have to get a laptop for editing. My main computer in the office gets too much window glare, I can only edit photos at night.

I'm thinking about a 17" screen notebook. Most now have the high gloss screens, I only saw one Gateway that was not high gloss. It also had an NVIDIA card.

Would a non glossy screen be better than the glossy?

I'll be able to take it into a dark room whenever I want and set up a mouse or pen. Maybe I'll be able to finally make some headway on my backlog of unedited photos.

Screen and brand comments appreciated.

Hollie
 
"Would a non glossy screen be better than the glossy? "

Yes, this is why there are no professional desktop lcd's with a glossy finish.

The Dell Precision M90 has a 17' 1920x1200 matte screen and so do others.

BKKSW
 
Thanks, all the Dell's I looked at didn't have NVIDIA cards, this one does!

And it's even on sale!

Hollie
BKKSW said:
"Would a non glossy screen be better than the glossy? "

Yes, this is why there are no professional desktop lcd's with a
glossy finish.

The Dell Precision M90 has a 17' 1920x1200 matte screen and so do
others.

BKKSW
Click to expand...
 
The 2500 video card is great.. no need to go to the expensive 3500 option for imaging.

Check out the Dell Outlet for great deals of 40-60% or more..

BKKSW
 
BKKSW,

Do you have this Dell? Do you edit using PS on it, and if so how are the results?

Is it too heavy for laps? Does it get hot?

Thanks,

Hollie
BKKSW said:
"Would a non glossy screen be better than the glossy? "

Yes, this is why there are no professional desktop lcd's with a
glossy finish.

The Dell Precision M90 has a 17' 1920x1200 matte screen and so do
others.

BKKSW
Click to expand...
 
It depends on the screen.

I have a Sony notebook that appears to have a "glossy" screen. However, it has an anti-reflection coating so it is actually better to use than a matte LCD.
--
If you don't talk to your cat about catnip, who will?
 
Yes. I have the M90 and 3 other Dell's that I personally use and a total of seven Dell laptops I currently maintain for my business. I've owned many Dell's over the years and this is what I've learned.

1. From now on I'll only buy Latitudes or Precisions, maybe a XPS if it's a size that doesn't come in the others. I appreciate the USA based tech support for their business line, the included 3 year next business day on-site warranty, high build quality, and lack of 'junk' features and software I don't use. More, the Precisions are ISV certified for over 20 of the top graphic programs (certified by the software manufacturers) making them extremely compatible not only with the software we most commonly use but also with the networks I connect to.

2. The Dell Outlet offers great value. http://www.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/notebooks?c=us&cs=22&l=en&s=dfh I've carefully and selectively purchased five laptops from the Outlet now, always paying less than half of new price (even with sales and coupons) and the 'oldest' model was 22 days from it's original build date when I first got my hands on it.. I try to get the "previously ordered new" but have had great luck with even the "refurbished" and for all practical purposes I don't see any difference between the different choices. Not one of the five I've ordered had a single scratch or any indication they weren't brand new items. 4 of the 5 had extended warranties like Gold-Tech, Complete-care, and more included that wasn't listed on the site when I purchased them.

I have a 12" 700, 14.1" D620 Latitude, 15.4" Inspiron, and 17" M90 Precision that I keep synced and ready for travel/use. The D620 is my favourite all around laptop, big and powerful enough (Core 2 Duo 2.16g, 2gigs of RAM, 7200 HDD, optional video card and more) for anything but an extended stay and work someone, small and light enough to travel easily in my knapsack.. and gets great battery life.

The 700 has a glossy screen that I find useful when working tethered outside.. yes it's reflective but if you tilt it at the exact right angle you'll get a view while outdoors impossible to get with a non-glossy. This is strictly for capture, not processing.

The M90 is in a class of it's own. Not really significantly bigger or heavier than any other 17" notebook, it' still better built and performs better than anything else out there including a 17" Macbook Pro I used it side by side with during an evaluation period. It's DVI output is great if you carry a extra screen with you which I sometimes do for workshops or presentations, it's connectivity is great for running networked run DLP projectors for presentations, and it's colour accuracry makes this the only laptop out of 20 I've owned that I'd trust for critical colour work when properly profiled. Keep in mind that there are very few needs where 'critical colour' work is actually needed.. for weddings, portraits, landscapes.. most notebook screens work great if properly profiled. However, for product photography and the like where certain shades of colours/fabric/depth must be perfect..then the M90 is the only one I've ever trusted. It's fast (extremely fast, even with the same processor/ram/hdd as my D620 it's significantly faster, maybe partly do to the superiour video card but probably more to do with design and superiour motherboard architecture), capable, doesn't get past "warm" and the keyboard and touchpad are first class.

All of these drop into docking stations and if set up right can easily replace a desktop. My M90 docking station includes a high quality external monitor, keyboard, and mouse, the monitor is a large DVI LCD. It's also connected via a SATA II interface (via the PCI card slot in the docking station) to a large RAID array for fast and external storage. The D620 is almost has capable but uses a different docking station.

Anyway.. check out the outlet.. it's hard to go wrong there.

BKKSW
 
Thanks so much for the review and great information.

My desktop is starting to fail but I want to hang on till next Fall to buy a new desktop system, with your dock station I might be able to use the M90 if needed for a desktop.

I've checked the Dell Outlet on the web, there were only 2 M90s at about $200 cheaper than new, but maybe I should look more closely at the specs and warranties. They may be worth more than I thought.

I'd been hesitant about Dell due to so many complaints about service.

Loved it that you were able to compare a MacBook to a Dell.

Thanks, I'm sold.

Hollie
BKKSW said:
Yes. I have the M90 and 3 other Dell's that I personally use and a
total of seven Dell laptops I currently maintain for my business.
I've owned many Dell's over the years and this is what I've learned.

1. From now on I'll only buy Latitudes or Precisions, maybe a XPS
if it's a size that doesn't come in the others. I appreciate the
USA based tech support for their business line, the included 3 year
next business day on-site warranty, high build quality, and lack of
'junk' features and software I don't use. More, the Precisions are
ISV certified for over 20 of the top graphic programs (certified by
the software manufacturers) making them extremely compatible not
only with the software we most commonly use but also with the
networks I connect to.

2. The Dell Outlet offers great value.

http://www.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/notebooks?c=us&cs=22&l=en&s=dfh I've carefully and selectively purchased five laptops from the Outlet now, always paying less than half of new price (even with sales and coupons) and the 'oldest' model was 22 days from it's original build date when I first got my hands on it.. I try to get the "previously ordered new" but have had great luck with even the "refurbished" and for all practical purposes I don't see any difference between the different choices. Not one of the five I've ordered had a single scratch or any indication they weren't brand new items. 4 of the 5 had extended warranties like Gold-Tech, Complete-care, and more included that wasn't listed on the site when I purchased them.

I have a 12" 700, 14.1" D620 Latitude, 15.4" Inspiron, and 17" M90
Precision that I keep synced and ready for travel/use. The D620 is
my favourite all around laptop, big and powerful enough (Core 2 Duo
2.16g, 2gigs of RAM, 7200 HDD, optional video card and more) for
anything but an extended stay and work someone, small and light
enough to travel easily in my knapsack.. and gets great battery
life.

The 700 has a glossy screen that I find useful when working
tethered outside.. yes it's reflective but if you tilt it at the
exact right angle you'll get a view while outdoors impossible to
get with a non-glossy. This is strictly for capture, not
processing.

The M90 is in a class of it's own. Not really significantly bigger
or heavier than any other 17" notebook, it' still better built and
performs better than anything else out there including a 17"
Macbook Pro I used it side by side with during an evaluation
period. It's DVI output is great if you carry a extra screen with
you which I sometimes do for workshops or presentations, it's
connectivity is great for running networked run DLP projectors for
presentations, and it's colour accuracry makes this the only laptop
out of 20 I've owned that I'd trust for critical colour work when
properly profiled. Keep in mind that there are very few needs
where 'critical colour' work is actually needed.. for weddings,
portraits, landscapes.. most notebook screens work great if
properly profiled. However, for product photography and the like
where certain shades of colours/fabric/depth must be perfect..then
the M90 is the only one I've ever trusted. It's fast (extremely
fast, even with the same processor/ram/hdd as my D620 it's
significantly faster, maybe partly do to the superiour video card
but probably more to do with design and superiour motherboard
architecture), capable, doesn't get past "warm" and the keyboard
and touchpad are first class.

All of these drop into docking stations and if set up right can
easily replace a desktop. My M90 docking station includes a high
quality external monitor, keyboard, and mouse, the monitor is a
large DVI LCD. It's also connected via a SATA II interface (via
the PCI card slot in the docking station) to a large RAID array for
fast and external storage. The D620 is almost has capable but uses
a different docking station.

Anyway.. check out the outlet.. it's hard to go wrong there.

BKKSW
Click to expand...
 
I'm seeing a lot of 1500 video cards, not good enough?

Not sure if I should get Win XP Pro or Vista?

You're right, there are great deals there but takes some time to sort through them.

Hollie
BKKSW said:
The 2500 video card is great.. no need to go to the expensive 3500
option for imaging.

Check out the Dell Outlet for great deals of 40-60% or more..

BKKSW
Click to expand...
 
The Outlet can vary a lot. I've found that while they add new systems all day long, that there is usually a 1 hour window from 3-5am PST where they add many machines at once.. and these get grabbed and put in shopping carts by ebay resellers and the like as they sort out the ones they want to keep.. letting the others return to the system.

For sure you need to study how they're equipped.. A base M90 is going to be about 40-50% cheaper than one which is loaded.. so compare prices on like equipped systems. Configure one as you'd want it if buying new, and then search on the Outlet until you find it. It takes some work and time, but the longest it's taken me is about a week.

The 1500 card is fine for imaging and uses a lot less power than the 2500/3500 cards. If battery life is important to you then get the 1500. If performance is more important then the 2500.. People say the video card doesn't increase overall performance.. but on this machine I think it does.

Service.. First, we need to recognize that the number 1 PC maker is going to have a lot more complaints simply because they sell more.. for a few quarters they've been number 2.. but still the same. The real question is the ratio of incidents and I think you'll find these very well guarded. The fact is there are only a few actual laptop manufacturers and they configure and re-badge what they manufacture for each company.

Second, there are different levels of service between their consumer line and their business line. Differences include not only the length and type of service contract (the Precisions and Latitudes have a standard included 3 year next business day on-site international warranty) but which call centers you'll be directed to when you give them your service tag when calling Dell Support. The business models get directed to North American based call centers and they're very helpful, they also guarantee 2 hour email responses. Overall the service level is much better.. and faster if you need repairs.

Third.. Dell used to stand above the competition in service.. and then when Michael Dell left the day to day running.. the bean counters tried to save and boost profits by moving service centers to India like everyone else.. So many "service complaints" are heard because their great service because like everyone else's service.. though they still offered their on-site service and international service when many didn't. Anyway, service became a huge issue about 18 months ago and Michael Dell came back into the day to day part of the business and his number one priority is getting the service level back up to par.

I've had times when I've been frustrated with the service on my Inspirons.. but no more than HP and others.. I've always been delighted with the service level on my Latitudes and Precision...

I wish you luck..

BKKSW
 
Thanks BKKSW,

Since this will be my main post process computer I guess I'll get the 2500 card.

A lot of these M90s at the Outlet have Win XP Pro, don't know what to do about that...I don't know if I want Vista or not but a few years from now?

That 2 hour window is a great tip although I am PST and getting up and ordering at 3 AM....well maybe it's worth it. Thanks for telling me about it, I wondered where the EBAY sellers got their goods.

I suppose I can always add more memory, so that shouldn't be a deal breaking factor. I don't know the difference between WUGA and WVGA on the screens...do you?

Most of these are 80 gig hard drives, I'd want bigger.

I'm tempted to go for the Scratch and Dent models, they seem to be a bit cheaper.

Thanks again, I'll be going to work on obtaining one of these.

Hollie
BKKSW said:
The Outlet can vary a lot. I've found that while they add new
systems all day long, that there is usually a 1 hour window from
3-5am PST where they add many machines at once.. and these get
grabbed and put in shopping carts by ebay resellers and the like as
they sort out the ones they want to keep.. letting the others
return to the system.

For sure you need to study how they're equipped.. A base M90 is
going to be about 40-50% cheaper than one which is loaded.. so
compare prices on like equipped systems. Configure one as you'd
want it if buying new, and then search on the Outlet until you find
it. It takes some work and time, but the longest it's taken me is
about a week.

The 1500 card is fine for imaging and uses a lot less power than
the 2500/3500 cards. If battery life is important to you then get
the 1500. If performance is more important then the 2500.. People
say the video card doesn't increase overall performance.. but on
this machine I think it does.
I wish you luck..

BKKSW
Click to expand...
 
From my experience there are very few glossy screens that have even decent glare properties. Typically that means that an object within your (reflected) field of view will show up as glare. As long as your content is bright, it's often able to drown the glare, but the picture chages greatly once the picture on your screen turns dark and the monitor turns into a mirror of sorts. The only way around that is to eliminate glare sources via hood or simply removing lights etc. behind you while working on the screen.

Manufacturers went to the glossy since it reduces diffuse reflection of the matte coating that typically appear less true in achievable Black levels. My Sony laptop is terrible with such a glossy screen while my older Viewsonic monitor doesn't have those problems. You guessed it, the monitor has a traditional (matte) anti-glare coating. LCD tvs are the same, have a light of some sort next to you while watching tv and you will be unnerved by that bright spot. Yet, go to any retailer and the glossy is the one you will find in masses. I suspect that the main reason is that stores are typically dark and and problems not visible (while often displaying very bright content to attract customers).

Btw, I always get a kick out of advertisement that shows a happy laptop user outdoors in bright sunlight. Obviously, everybody who every used one under those conditions knows that it's very hard to see anything, let alone be excited. ;-) Glossy finish is even worse. (I know the last one was off-topic, but thought I throw it in anyway.)
 
Unscientific, but when I shine a Surefire E1L flashlight (3 watt LED and regulated circuit -- diffuser mounted), I get a reading of about 15.5 EV directed back at me from my Viewsonic A90f+ (which has obvious anti-reflection coating), 13.5 EV from my Sony laptop, and about 18.8 EV from a bathroom mirror. All of these are "glossy".

Measurements taken with a Sekonic L558 1-degree spot (set at ISO 100 & 1/60th).

Does that mean anything? Beats the heck out of me.
--
If you don't talk to your cat about catnip, who will?
 
XP or Vista.. I just installed Vista on my workstation and love it. Maybe Dell extends an upgrade option?

Hard drive size is important.. but more the 7200rpm drives for speed are more important. They just released a few weeks ago 7200 drives with more than 100gig's, 160 I believe.. and they haven't filtered down to the Outlet models yet.. give it a few weeks. I always carry USB powered HDD's in the field with me for exta capacity and at home have a networked RAID array I use. With 500gig USB/FW externals for $129 on Buy.com I wouldn't worry about it too much.

RAW you could upgrade as you say.. but the problem with changing anything after the fact is that Dell won't support the item you changed under their warranty.. it becomes a separate deal to get memory replaced or a hard drive or whatever. I'd try to get it as close as possible to what you really want.

I have 2gigs in mind and it's plenty. I also have a 100gig 7200 drive and it's fast.. I have no desire to go bigger because I've worked the USB powered hdd's into my routine and I like what they provide. I clone two, then one goes in my luggage and one in my pocket. Even if the laptop gets ripped from my hands while traveling I'll still have my work in my pocket and for me this can be a lot more valuable than the laptop.

You can buy 7200rpm 100gig PATA drives for $99 and high quality USB enclosures for under $20.. or Western Digital makes some you can find at buy.com which are good deals if you can live with 5400rpm drives.. which for storage are fine.

I have the 2500 card and love it.. but I've never heard anything bad about the 1500 card.. and it uses half the power when on battery.

The screen differences can be found on the Dell site in the build section of the M90.. but the Uxga or whatever it is.. means the 1920x1200 enhanced screen. The x... is a lower resolution and quality.. reviews on the lesser screen haven't been that great. There's a place that sells replacement LCD's for notebooks, just the bare screen itself. The standard rez screen for the M90 is just over $100.. while the 1920x1200 model is over $400.. I'm thinking there's a bit more to this price difference than just resolution, especialy considering my Uxga 1920x1200 screen is the best laptop screen I've ever used..

BKKSW
 
You really are an experienced notebook traveler!

I have many external hard drives and don't know what I'd do without them. The jump drives are great now that they are making larger capacities, but I do tend to lose them since they're so small.

Yes, the large hard drives I'm seeing at the outlet are all Win XP Pro so far.

Thanks for all your advice, I will be using it.

Hollie
BKKSW said:
XP or Vista.. I just installed Vista on my workstation and love it.
Maybe Dell extends an upgrade option?

Hard drive size is important.. but more the 7200rpm drives for
speed are more important. They just released a few weeks ago 7200
drives with more than 100gig's, 160 I believe.. and they haven't
filtered down to the Outlet models yet.. give it a few weeks. I
always carry USB powered HDD's in the field with me for exta
capacity and at home have a networked RAID array I use. With
500gig USB/FW externals for $129 on Buy.com I wouldn't worry about
it too much.

RAW you could upgrade as you say.. but the problem with changing
anything after the fact is that Dell won't support the item you
changed under their warranty.. it becomes a separate deal to get
memory replaced or a hard drive or whatever. I'd try to get it as
close as possible to what you really want.

I have 2gigs in mind and it's plenty. I also have a 100gig 7200
drive and it's fast.. I have no desire to go bigger because I've
worked the USB powered hdd's into my routine and I like what they
provide. I clone two, then one goes in my luggage and one in my
pocket. Even if the laptop gets ripped from my hands while
traveling I'll still have my work in my pocket and for me this can
be a lot more valuable than the laptop.

You can buy 7200rpm 100gig PATA drives for $99 and high quality USB
enclosures for under $20.. or Western Digital makes some you can
find at buy.com which are good deals if you can live with 5400rpm
drives.. which for storage are fine.

I have the 2500 card and love it.. but I've never heard anything
bad about the 1500 card.. and it uses half the power when on
battery.

The screen differences can be found on the Dell site in the build
section of the M90.. but the Uxga or whatever it is.. means the
1920x1200 enhanced screen. The x... is a lower resolution and
quality.. reviews on the lesser screen haven't been that great.
There's a place that sells replacement LCD's for notebooks, just
the bare screen itself. The standard rez screen for the M90 is
just over $100.. while the 1920x1200 model is over $400.. I'm
thinking there's a bit more to this price difference than just
resolution, especialy considering my Uxga 1920x1200 screen is the
best laptop screen I've ever used..

BKKSW
Click to expand...
 
Just did the Dell customization and this EBAY system is $4300 new from Dell, it's $2500 on EBAY, new they say.

Looks good?

Hollie
Hollie said:
I can only find M90s with XP Pro so far on Dell Outlet that have
100 gig hd, WUGA screen, 2500 video card, etc.

On EBAY there is a Vista Business new, much less than I'd get from
Dell new with all the bells and whistles

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-DELL-PRECISION-M90-LAPTOP-FX-3500M-VISTA-BUSINESS_W0QQitemZ170105114882QQihZ007QQcategoryZ140080QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

So if I want Vista it looks like the EBAY deal is best. Anyone use
Vista Business?

Hollie
Click to expand...
 
I'm really skeptical about these ebay deals.. how/why the big difference if everything else is the same? Many people have lost on ebay when the deal looked too good.

Call Dell and ask about coupons. They found a $1200 coupon for me once..

BKKSW
 
I did buy a Toshiba M200 tablet last summer from a Power Seller on EBAY. It also was new and priced way below Toshiba's new ones.

It has worked out fine. It did have a problem with the memory but I sent it in on the Toshiba warranty and they fixed it. I'd like to sell it now since I'm getting this M90.

You wonder how the Power Sellers could maintain such good feedback if their "new" computers had flaws or didn't adhere to the specs. Surely someone would have caught them. And with the warranty can you be out much?

Hollie
BKKSW said:
I'm really skeptical about these ebay deals.. how/why the big
difference if everything else is the same? Many people have lost
on ebay when the deal looked too good.

Call Dell and ask about coupons. They found a $1200 coupon for me
once..

BKKSW
Click to expand...
 
I've noticed their feedback too.. still I can't help but wondering what the catch is. I called Dell a few months ago about the Ebay sellers and they said they'd honor the warranty like if I bought it from them..

I'm sure you know how to look if the feedback was earned selling Dell's or cheap items from Hong Kong.. and how to check if the account has been hijacked. I lost 8k thanks to Paypal charging back a payment they made into my account after someone hijacked the guys Ebay and Paypal account. The money sat in my account for a week before I shipped because I was out of town, and on the 8th day they sucked the 8k out of my account and said sorry. Dell would never do that..

Anyway, let us know how it goes if you go that route..

BKKSW
 
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