My G2-a "p&s"?

Jon W77861 · Feb 23, 2002

gkl said:
And I do agree with JonW
that the G2 is a better choice than the D7 for a neophyte - but
primarily because it costs less. GKL

Actually, after Amex pricematch, the difference between the cameras price is just $20 or $30. For reference, my wife and I bought our D7 for a final price $589.

IMO, what happens is someone looking for a digicam is going to quickly understand they want to buy some megapixels, 4, 5 or more! Then they look over the review sites, and the G2 comes up a lot. There are a ton of 3-5MP cameras in the $400-$800 price range. Someone's going to tend to want the "best" one. I don't personally think there's anything wrong with that. But if they are pretty new to photography they are going to be dissapointed if the camera doesn't take great shots out of the box.

Given they haven't invented the perfect camera yet, it wouldn't be a problem to nitpick any camera. But IMO some of the pro features of the D7 are just going to give neophytes headaches. The LION battery system of the Canon is easier to deal with, if not as flexible/inexpensive as the AA NIMH system in the D7. The Canon has great battery life out of the box, whereas you need to use the right batteries with the D7, condition them, enable power-saving modes, avoid overuse of the LCD, etc. The EVF on the D7 can be difficult for some people to use, and if they don't understand the advantages of seeing exactly what your shooting, then they're probably better off with a simple optical VF. The color space issue (while some owners do successfully ignore it) is an extra nuisance which can prevent owners from getting the excellent and expanded colors they should be getting from the D7.

Jon W77861 · Feb 23, 2002

gkl said:
Clearly the G2 allows lots of control compared to a standard P&S.
Although their features and strengths are somewhat different, to me
the D7 and G2 are much closer in capabilities than they are to a
strictly P&S camera. GKL

Primary difference is that the D7 is classified with the DSLR's because of it's TTL EVF, while optical VF equipped cameras like the G2 are usually designated as P&S.

Having great control is one thing, but being able to see and set the focus, exposure, and settings when using the viewfinder is a huge difference to me.

If you enjoy framing and snapping your shots thru the LCD more power to you, but many of us prefer to use a more conventional viewfinder.

Anyway, none of this discussion really has anything to do with a low-end P&S camera. A $199 2MP Kodak P&S Camera just isn't comparable to either of these cameras.

What is?

If someone's convinced they want to spend something on the order of $1000 for a camera what are their options?

Seems to me all the cameras share many of the same features in terms of manual control, so why even bring this up?

So what sets them apart?

Here's how I see it:

Optical VF cameras with 3-4X zooms, 3-5MP ($400-$1000):
S304, S404, G1, G2, CP990, CP5000, etc.

EVF/SLR fixed lens cameras with 4-7X zooms, 3-5MP ($500-$1800):
D5, D7, F707, E-10, E-20, 6900, etc.

And then you have various Digital SLR and Pro SLRs with swappable lenses.

Yes all 3 of the classes have more featuress in common then they have differences. But it's pretty clear to me which features are driving the price. It's not the LCD screen. Even the cheapest digicams have 100k pixel LCD screens. The megapixels certainly effect the cost up to a point. But it's clear to me the biggest difference is the combination of a TTL VF, wide range lens, and high megapixels. It's non-trivial and costly to provide a 7X zoom AND 5MP capability. And when you have that kind of zoom range capability you'd better have an EVF or TTL VF. Haven't you guys wondered why the Pro90 still hasn't been upgraded?

crl · Feb 24, 2002

Jon W77861 said:
Jon W77861 said:

gkl wrote:
Clearly the G2 allows lots of control compared to a standard P&S.
Although their features and strengths are somewhat different, to me
the D7 and G2 are much closer in capabilities than they are to a
strictly P&S camera. GKL

Click to expand...

Jon W77861 said:
JonW wrote:
Primary difference is that the D7 is classified with the DSLR's
because of it's TTL EVF, while optical VF equipped cameras like the
G2 are usually designated as P&S.

What authority classifies the D7 with DSLRs and designates the G2 as P & S?

The EVF in the D7 is an LCD and is much more similar to the G2's LCD viewfinder than a REAL SLR. Some could even argue that the G2s optical viewfinder (it has both an optical and EVF viewfinder) is more SLR like because like an SLR it provides a real-life view. AFAIK the D7 does not have a real-life option at all.

From http://www.imaging-resource.com

"The viewfinder is one of the most interesting aspects of the Dimage 7. It employs a "Digital Hyper Viewfinder" as well as an LCD monitor for composing shots. The Digital Hyper Viewfinder display would generically be called an "Electronic Viewfinder" (EVF), and is essentially a miniaturized version of the LCD monitor, complete with image information display."

You can read the full review of the D7 viewfinder at:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D7/D70A4.HTM

Jon W77861 said:
Having great control is one thing, but being able to see and set
the focus, exposure, and settings when using the viewfinder is a
huge difference to me.

It is to G2 owners as well and they enjoy those features in their EVF viewfinder.

Jon W77861 said:
If you enjoy framing and snapping your shots thru the LCD more
power to you, but many of us prefer to use a more conventional
viewfinder.

With the D7 you ARE framing and snapping your shots with the D7 thru an LCD as well.

If you enjoy that great. G2 owners do too but we prefer doing through the very flexible LCD viewfinder on the G2.

Jon W77861 · Feb 24, 2002

crl said:
What authority classifies the D7 with DSLRs and designates the G2
as P & S?

Minolta does.

They group their S404 (which is a direct competitor with the G2) in the P&S category. Does Canon group the G2 with their DSLR's?

If you don't like the way I chose to break down the market in to classes, let's hear yours?

crl said:
The EVF in the D7 is an LCD and is much more similar to the G2's
LCD viewfinder than a REAL SLR.

How so? Are you going to argue next that the optical viewfinder in your G2 is more like an SLR because it's made of glass and not electronics?

You keep wanting to compare the D7's viewfinder to the G2's display.

You think that's valid. I don't. Stalemate?

crl said:
Some could even argue that the G2s
optical viewfinder (it has both an optical and EVF viewfinder) is
more SLR like because like an SLR it provides a real-life view.

Oh, hehe, you did argue that.

crl said:
AFAIK the D7 does not have a real-life option at all.

Sure it does. Just take a peek over the top of the camera. It doesn't get more real life then that!

crl said:
It is to G2 owners as well and they enjoy those features in their
EVF viewfinder.

You mean in their LCD display ...

crl said:
With the D7 you ARE framing and snapping your shots with the D7
thru an LCD as well.

I'm using the viewfinder of the camera.

crl said:
If you enjoy that great.

Indeed, I do.

crl said:
G2 owners do too but we prefer doing
through the very flexible LCD viewfinder on the G2.

Again, you mean the LCD display of the camera. Using words incorrectly can't fix a flawed argument.

If LCD displays are such wonderfull things, how come neither I nor most D7 owners use the one built in to our camera for framing or focusing?

Do you think a G2 owner who upgraded to a D1X would always use the LCD display for focusing and framing, while a D7 owner who got his hands on the same would use the SLR VF?

I dunno. I guess it's possible but that just seems preposterous to me.

You can certainly argue that you prefer the G2's display for framing and focusing over the D7's EVF. Some people like it, some people don't. But are you really saying that if your G2 had a TTL VF that provided a better image then your LCD that you wouldn't use it? That you'd see no advantage in it?

crl · Feb 25, 2002

Jon W77861 said:
JonW said:

crl wrote:
G2 owners do too but we prefer doing
through the very flexible LCD viewfinder on the G2.

Click to expand...

Again, you mean the LCD display of the camera. Using words
incorrectly can't fix a flawed argument.

No I mean just what I said-the LCD or some could call it an electronic viewfinder (EVF) on the G2. You see most G2 owners for a variety of reasons prefer to use what you think of as only a monitor as the viewfinder. Think of the G2 as having an LCD or Electronic ViewFinder and a real-life image optical viewfinder. A viewfinder is not limited to a small hole near the top of the camera.

Jon W77861 said:
If LCD displays are such wonderfull things, how come neither I nor
most D7 owners use the one built in to our camera for framing or
focusing?

I am sure there are still a number of people who just don't feel right using a camera unless they have an eyeball pressed to a small hole in the back of the camera. It is just their preference.

Also, not all LCD displays and/or viewfinders are the same. I can't speak for you D7 users but I wouldn't use the one on the D7 either.

Don't forget when you are using the D7s EVF viewfinder you are using an LCD.

Perhaps you missed this.......
From http://www.imaging-resource.com

"The Digital Hyper Viewfinder display would generically be called an "Electronic Viewfinder" (EVF), and is essentially a miniaturized version of the LCD monitor, complete with image information display."
You can read the full review of the D7 viewfinder at:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D7/D70A4.HTM

When I asked what authority classifies cameras as infered in your following statement ..............

JonW wrote:
"Primary difference is that the D7 is classified with the DSLR's
because of it's TTL EVF, while optical VF equipped cameras like the
G2 are usually designated as P&S."

you responded with the following...

JonW wrote:

"Minolta does.

They group their S404 (which is a direct competitor with the G2) in the P&S category. Does Canon group the G2 with their DSLR's?"

I am glad that you see the humor in your statement. (I also liked the humorous response as to the lack of a real-life image viewfinder in the D7-just look over the top of the camera

Of course Minolta can classify their cameras anyway they want. Such classifications by manufacturers are pretty much useless as their classifications are generally determined for marketing reasons. But I still don't see what authority classifies the G2 and other cameras with an optical viewfinder as P&S. Unless of course Minolta is the authority for classifiying ALL cameras;-)

I think I would like one of those new "point and shoot" Leicas!

LarryT · Feb 25, 2002

JonW said:
Primary difference is that the D7 is classified with the DSLR's
because of it's TTL EVF, while optical VF equipped cameras like the
G2 are usually designated as P&S.

Now that is reaching! I guess the Fuji 2800 should be grouped with DSLRs too?

Jon W77861 · Feb 25, 2002

crl said:
No I mean just what I said-the LCD or some could call it an
electronic viewfinder (EVF) on the G2.

That would be silly since they are not the same thing.

crl said:
You see most G2 owners for
a variety of reasons prefer to use what you think of as only a
monitor as the viewfinder.

Perhaps because the REAL viewfinder on the G2 is useless?

crl said:
Think of the G2 as having an LCD or
Electronic ViewFinder and a real-life image optical viewfinder.

If they did the same thing I would, they don't.

crl said:
A viewfinder is not limited to a small hole near the top of the
camera.

No? Then what do you call that small hole near the top of a camera?

Again, it's senseless to even discuss this if you insist on comparing apples to bananas.

crl said:
I am sure there are still a number of people who just don't feel
right using a camera unless they have an eyeball pressed to a small
hole in the back of the camera. It is just their preference.

It's actually quite a bit more then that, but that's kinda beyond the scope of the original thread, and I thought I'd avoid that tangent if possible.

crl said:
Also, not all LCD displays and/or viewfinders are the same. I
can't speak for you D7 users but I wouldn't use the one on the D7
either.

Again, most people who don't like the D7's EVF don't buy the camera. They can step up in money and get a more traditional VF with the E10/E20 (or any of the DSLR's), or they can lower their sights and give up on a TTL VF all together. One of these days the perfect EVF will be invented, the D7's just happens to be the closest the industry has seen so far.

crl said:
Don't forget when you are using the D7s EVF viewfinder you are
using an LCD.

Of course. But it's an LCD in the little hole thingey at the top of the camera.

crl said:
Perhaps you missed this.......
From http://www.imaging-resource.com
(snip)

What about it?

crl said:
But I still don't see what authority classifies the G2 and other
cameras with an optical viewfinder as P&S. Unless of course
Minolta is the authority for classifiying ALL cameras;-)

shrugs Again, the way Minolta and I classified the cameras makes sense to me and I gave reasons. Everyone can potentially come up with their own groupings based on which features are important to them. For instance, they might group the Oly E-20 with the G2 because they both have 3/4X zoom, while grouping the Pro90, Uzi, and D7 together because they have 7-10X zooms. If your only requirement is extreme telephoto, that might make sense.

Once more, I suggest you list how you would break down the camera classes and explain why you grouped them that way.

crl said:
I think I would like one of those new "point and shoot" Leicas!

Heh, I haven't read up on this one yet.

One final thought. Digicams steal almost every concept from film cameras, so they will seem familiar to people switching over from film. They could had called the ISO setting 1x, 2x, 3x, 4x; or rated the F-stop in percentages. But they like to stick to film conventions. While the 35mm SLR is hardly the end all, be all of film photography, it's still the goal for Digital.

So just a quick question. How many 35MM SLR cameras use TTL viewfinders, and how many use LCD displays and optical VFs?

Honestly, which do you think is more desirable?

Jon W77861 · Feb 25, 2002

LarryT said:
Now that is reaching! I guess the Fuji 2800 should be grouped with
DSLRs too?

Well I don't know much about the 2800, but if you can successfully manually focus using the EVF in the Fuji 2800, why not?

There are plenty of low megapixel DSLRs out there, surely you're not eliminating it merely based on resolution?

How would you break down the market if you were trying to explain to someone what they could buy in the various price ranges?

gkl · Feb 25, 2002

JonW, this argument is really getting pointless. You classified the G2 as P&S because it doesn't have an EVF?

C'mon.

Your definition of P&S doesn't agree with mine. Your definition seems misleading to me and I'm sure to others as well. The usual definition of P&S is a simple camera that lacks manual over-rides, so you have no choice but to point & shoot.

Nuff said. GKL

JonW said:
crl said:

What authority classifies the D7 with DSLRs and designates the G2
as P & S?

Click to expand...

Minolta does. They group their S404 (which is a direct
competitor with the G2) in the P&S category. Does Canon group the
G2 with their DSLR's?

If you don't like the way I chose to break down the market in to
classes, let's hear yours?

Jon W77861 said:

The EVF in the D7 is an LCD and is much more similar to the G2's
LCD viewfinder than a REAL SLR.

Click to expand...

How so? Are you going to argue next that the optical viewfinder in
your G2 is more like an SLR because it's made of glass and not
electronics?

You keep wanting to compare the D7's viewfinder to the G2's display.

You think that's valid. I don't. Stalemate?

Jon W77861 said:

Some could even argue that the G2s
optical viewfinder (it has both an optical and EVF viewfinder) is
more SLR like because like an SLR it provides a real-life view.

Click to expand...

Oh, hehe, you did argue that.

Jon W77861 said:

AFAIK the D7 does not have a real-life option at all.

Click to expand...

Sure it does. Just take a peek over the top of the camera. It
doesn't get more real life then that!

Jon W77861 said:

It is to G2 owners as well and they enjoy those features in their
EVF viewfinder.

Click to expand...

You mean in their LCD display ...

Jon W77861 said:

With the D7 you ARE framing and snapping your shots with the D7
thru an LCD as well.

Click to expand...

I'm using the viewfinder of the camera.

Jon W77861 said:

If you enjoy that great.

Click to expand...

Indeed, I do.

Jon W77861 said:

G2 owners do too but we prefer doing
through the very flexible LCD viewfinder on the G2.

Click to expand...

Again, you mean the LCD display of the camera. Using words
incorrectly can't fix a flawed argument.

If LCD displays are such wonderfull things, how come neither I nor
most D7 owners use the one built in to our camera for framing or
focusing?

Do you think a G2 owner who upgraded to a D1X would always use the
LCD display for focusing and framing, while a D7 owner who got his
hands on the same would use the SLR VF?

I dunno. I guess it's possible but that just seems preposterous to me.

You can certainly argue that you prefer the G2's display for
framing and focusing over the D7's EVF. Some people like it, some
people don't. But are you really saying that if your G2 had a TTL
VF that provided a better image then your LCD that you wouldn't use
it? That you'd see no advantage in it?

crl · Feb 25, 2002

JonW said:
shrugs Again, the way Minolta and I classified the cameras makes
sense to me and I gave reasons.

So that is it. When you wrote that "the D7 is classified with DSLRs" and "optical equiped cameras like the G2 are usually designated as P&S." You meant that that is how you and Minolta Corp do the classifying and designating.

JonW said:
Everyone can potentially come up with their own groupings based on which features are > important to them."

That is my point but you were much more definitive about this classification when you wrote the following.

JonW wrote:
"Primary difference is that the D7 is classified with the DSLR's
because of it's TTL EVF, while optical VF equipped cameras like the
G2 are usually designated as P&S."

No mention of who was doing the classifying and designating or that anyone can come up with their own classification according to what is important to them. All information that would have been more useful than dogma when explaining the differences between the cameras.

As I said before you can classify, designate and believe whatever you like.

Jon W77861 · Feb 25, 2002

crl said:
As I said before you can classify, designate and believe whatever
you like.

Thanks I will.

Jon W77861 · Feb 25, 2002

gkl said:
JonW, this argument is really getting pointless. You classified the
G2 as P&S because it doesn't have an EVF?

Well, actually because it doesn't have a TTL VF. I think that's a pretty major feature for a digicam, don't you?

Minolta calls their own S404 a P&S. I guess you should write and let them know their demeaning their own camera ...

Think about it a bit.

The G2 is a very nice camera.

But why do you think Canon didn't put some sort of TTL VF on it? Why not go with a somewhat larger zoom 4x? maybe 5x? Why only 4MP instead of 5?

It's all about product differentiation. They don't want their high-end consumer cameras to compete with their DSLRs.

Minolta otoh, doesn't currently offer a pro-DSLR. They really don't have a marketing reason not to go ahead and put together the best set of features they can that will keep the price still within the high-end consumer range.

derek pearson · Feb 25, 2002

thanks for the nice words! where is madiera island? nice pictures of that!
derek

Paulo Abreu said:
derek pearson said:

not sure on that one- i just point and shoot and come up with great
pics!

http://www.skyfamily.com/derekandsara

derek

Click to expand...

Those aren´t great pics! those ARE GREAT PICTURES !
IMHO why: Fun, Sun, Mountains, Snow, biking, family, G2, Pizza,
Cliffs, drop´s, etc, etc. Nice report of Mount Crystal!
Congratulations,
--
Paulo Abreu
http://www.pbase.com/psergio

crl · Feb 26, 2002

JonW said:
crl said:

As I said before you can classify, designate and believe whatever
you like.

Click to expand...

Thanks I will.

I don't doubt that you will and when you make dogmatic statements like the folloowing.....

JonW wrote:
"Primary difference is that the D7 is classified with the DSLR's
because of it's TTL EVF, while optical VF equipped cameras like the
G2 are usually designated as P&S."

do everyone a favor and make it clear that you and Minolta made these classifications and that as you have agreed anyone can classify cameras according to their own needs.

Jon W77861 · Feb 26, 2002

crl said:
do everyone a favor and make it clear that you and Minolta made
these classifications and that as you have agreed anyone can
classify cameras according to their own needs.

Spare me.

For every argument I made I gave a reason, if it wasn't detailed enough I explained further.

I bothered to actually look up specs and details when they were called for, you looked up some reviews and opinions.

You've offered nothing other then opinion to contradict what I've said.

You didn't like my classification, but you've offered none of your own.

You've made some very misleading statements of your own, for instance when you compared a Canon telephoto lens to the D7's built-in lens without mentioning the drawbacks of such lenses.

This isn't a debating or even a technical forum, so I spared you the nitpicks on your posting style, I'd appreciate if you'd show me the same courtesy in the future.

Paulo Abreu · Feb 26, 2002

derek pearson said:
thanks for the nice words! where is madiera island? nice pictures
of that!
derek

Hi Derek,

Madeira Island is 33N 16W, has ~~720 Sqr/km and belongs to Portugal. It´s really a nice place to live and to make Holidays. It´s an holiday destination for over 100 years.~~

On my galleries you will find some photos of Madeira but those are just from 2 trips around the Island by car. The TRUE treasures of Madeira can be found on mountains, on foot ... or ... on mountain bike !, the climate and nice people ;-). With time i will make a gallerie of pictures of Madeira archipelag (yes, several islands!).

Your pictures really enjoyed me, i browsed every page and opened most photos. Nice work.

Regards,--Paulo Abreu http://www.pbase.com/psergio

crl · Feb 26, 2002

JonW said:
crl said:

do everyone a favor and make it clear that you and Minolta made
these classifications and that as you have agreed anyone can
classify cameras according to their own needs.

Click to expand...

Spare me.

For every argument I made I gave a reason, if it wasn't detailed
enough I explained further.

I bothered to actually look up specs and details when they were
called for, you looked up some reviews and opinions.

You've offered nothing other then opinion to contradict what I've
said.

You didn't like my classification, but you've offered none of your
own.

You've made some very misleading statements of your own, for
instance when you compared a Canon telephoto lens to the D7's
built-in lens without mentioning the drawbacks of such lenses.

This isn't a debating or even a technical forum, so I spared you
the nitpicks on your posting style, I'd appreciate if you'd show me
the same courtesy in the future.

I never asked you to justify your camera classification and don't now and never did care why you believe what you do. I am not interested in what you think or want to change your mind about anything so there was no debate.

When you made the following statement.......

JonW wrote:
"Primary difference is that the D7 is classified with the DSLR's
because of it's TTL EVF, while optical VF equipped cameras like the
G2 are usually designated as P&S."

I wanted to know WHO classifies the D7 with DSLRs and designates optical equiped cameras as P & S. It just took a while for you to admit that you were doing the classifying and that it is your opinion.

Since your statement was made in response to someone seeking info about the difference between the two cameras it would have been much more helpful if you let the person know your rather definitive statement was only opinion.

Jon W77861 · Feb 26, 2002

crl said:
I wanted to know WHO classifies the D7 with DSLRs and designates
optical equiped cameras as P & S. It just took a while for you to
admit that you were doing the classifying and that it is your
opinion.

Huh? I responsed immediately and directly to your question.

crl said:
Since your statement was made in response to someone seeking info
about the difference between the two cameras it would have been
much more helpful if you let the person know your rather definitive
statement was only opinion.

Why? As far as I know, it's a fact. The G2 is more of a P&S camera then the D7. The D7 has a TTL viewfinder, the G2 doesn't. They both have tons of manual controls. The D7 probably has more manual controls then the G2, but if you'd like to research that, let us know your findings.

First of all, the original post was unanswerable. I'm sure you see plenty of them in the Canon forum like we do in the Minolta. "Which is better the XXX or the YYY???" ... It's impossible to answer that question since it strictly depends on what they want out of a camera. Inspite of that I gave the most succinct answer I could think of to get him started.

If for whatever reason someone is sold on either the G2 or the D7, then if that person is a neophyte I still feel they should go with the G2.

Is it really worth 894828 posts to convince me that I was wrong to steer someone to the G2?!?

btw, I have some interesting news to you. Check out the Camera contest in the DPReview news at the PMA show.

Here are the high-end winners, and the classes:
==================
$700 to $899
Minolta DiMAGE 5 - Minolta Corp., Ramsey, N.J., USA

$900 to $1,200
Sony DSC F707 - Sony Electronics, Park Ridge, N.J., USA

Digital Video Camcorder
Sony DCR-TRV50 - Sony Electronics, Park Ridge, N.J., USA

Prosumer/Professional Categories and Winners
$1,200 to $2,499
Minolta DiMAGE 7 - Minolta Corp., Ramsey, N.J., USA

$5,000 to $9,999 (Merit Award)
Kodak DCS 760 - Eastman Kodak Co., Rochester, N.Y., USA
=================

Not only did the D7 win its class, but they put it in wiht the Procams.

LarryT · Feb 26, 2002

JonW said:
Why? As far as I know, it's a fact. The G2 is more of a P&S camera
then the D7.

This is as far from fact as you can get. It is your opinion, and obviously those of Minolta's marketing department.

Jon W77861 said:
The D7 has a TTL viewfinder, the G2 doesn't.

Of course it does. Where do you think the image on the G2 LCD comes from? The optical view finder? Are you really that blind that you don't recognize that the LCD screen just a large electronic a viewfinder? The only difference between the two cameras, in this regard, is the D7 has two LCD screens or "Viewfinders" one large and one small. The G2 has one large on and one, non-TTL optical one. This difference makes the D7 an SLR? Please.

You are certainly entitled to your opinions. if you think the D7 is more like an SLR than a G2, fine. Just don't try to spout statements like that as fact. They simply demonstrate your ignorance.

Jon W77861 · Feb 27, 2002

LarryT said:
This is as far from fact as you can get. It is your opinion, and
obviously those of Minolta's marketing department.

And apparently also the opinion of the organizers of the camera contest at PMA ... but again ... disagree with me if you wish, but explain why.

LarryT said:
LarryT said:

The D7 has a TTL viewfinder, the G2 doesn't.

Click to expand...

Of course it does.

Nope it doesn't.

LarryT said:
Where do you think the image on the G2 LCD
comes from?

The LCD Display on the Canon gets it's image from the CCD. Did you think I was disputing that?

LarryT said:
The optical view finder? Are you really that blind
that you don't recognize that the LCD screen just a large
electronic a viewfinder?

It's not a viewfinder, and regardless how many time Canonites tell me it is, I'm not buying it. It's NOT a viewfinder, it's a LCD display. Yes you can see the view thru the lens thru the Display, yes you can focus with the Display, etc, etc, etc ... but it's not the little eyepiece sized thingie that you stick your eye up to and look thru.

But you know what? It doesn't matter.

Call the eye hole thingey on the top of the camera a TIM, and call the 1.8" LCD thingey a FRED. Ok? It doesn't matter what you call them, but intelligent conversation just can't exist if you keep using the same names for different things.

The Minolta has an Electronic TTL TIM that operates much like the TIM on a 35MM SLR Camera, in some ways worse, and in some ways better. The G2 has a TIM similiar to that seen on P&S cameras. It's not possible to use the TIM on the G2 for manual focusing, nor can you use it with addon lenses. Both cameras have ~~100k pixel 1.8" FREDs that can also be used for framing or focusing your picture.~~

The only way that wouldn't matter to a camera buyer is if they actually preferred focusing thru a FRED over using a TIM.

LarryT said:
This difference makes the D7 an SLR?

It doesn't? Why not?

LarryT said:
Please.
You are certainly entitled to your opinions. if you think the D7
is more like an SLR than a G2, fine. Just don't try to spout
statements like that as fact.

Why, have you disproven anything I've said?

LarryT said:
They simply demonstrate your ignorance.

Hey, I'm not the one who has to resort to call apples, oranges (or TIMs, FRED) in order to make my point.

My G2-a "p&s"?

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