B&H are they in big problems?

I'm not as big a spender here as some, but I've ordered 10-12 times from B&H over the years with total merchandise value of $3500-$4500. They have never messed up an order, never sent gray market (unless that is what I ordered), always been prompt, never tried a bait-and-switch, and never sent me damaged goods.

My latest order was my G2 which arrived on a Monday morning after a Thursday afternoon order (FedEx saver). Perfect condition.

I'm not blinded by love (as some have suggested loyal B&H customers are), I've just never once had a bad experience. If I ever do, I'll give them a reasonable opportunity to resolve it. If resolved, great! If not, I'll then look for someone else to do business with. However, until problems do arise, my future purchases will be from B&H (with AMEX match of course!).

I've seen things like this degrade into a Fedex vs. UPS (or UPS air vs. UPS ground) thing before.

Bottom line -- they ALL screw up, and most of the time will try to cover up their mistakes and hope the customer doesn't complain.

UPS ground may be the worst offender, but none of them are perfect. (I'm not sure if that's based on overall packages ruined, or expressed as a rate per 10,000).

At any rate, if one receives a box like that, and the stuff inside is damaged (or even if you're just worried about it), you need to contact both the company who sold you the goods AND the company that shipped it - and let them sort it out.

allanofcalifornia said:

I never ordered from B&H so I am unbiased but for you to reject the
possibility that the box was damaged during shipping just sounds
like hatred for B&H.

Boxes do get damaged all the time during shipping. I've been told
many times that if you have anything expensive or breakable, that
you ship it 2 day air and never UPS ground. I've even been told
this by people working at UPS.

Click to expand...

--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net

with the amount of orders these guys fill, there's bound to be f'ups once in a while... happens to every business...

that being said, the amount of posts on their f'ups seems to be growing... whether it's an increasing problem with the store, or simply more people are getting online to talk about it, but there seems to be a lot of posts on this subject lately...

to me what makes a merchant great is not so much the service during the sale, but the service after... meaning that a merchant will work with you to keep you satisfied even after they already have your money... B&H seems to be a mixed bag with this, but overall they're still a step above most of the retailers out there... considering their volume, they're not dooing to bad of a job by any means...

i just hope this doesn't grow into another 150+ post...

Peter Gregg said:

I saw a few threads in here about B&H. I know Lee put his story
here and he can authenticate that they seem to be in a turn around.

So many people have said "they are the best". Now all these stories
are cropping up. This seem to be happening more and more often. Are
we seeing the turn around of a big company? First little
complaints, then bigger ones? Then huge ones?

I usually put it off, but I think you should make up your own mind.
Here is a new story complete with pictures. What do you think of
the box on this brand new item from B&H? Remember, someone at B&H
had to see it before it was shipped out:

http://64.49.211.153/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2426

Click to expand...

I had my first experience with B&H recently and can honestly say I have never had better service from any store, either on-line or personal shopping. Only 6 days from receipt of my order to delivery in Australia by FedEx. The item was a $2,000 camera and accessories, all very well packed and all arrived in perfect condition. Of course, problems can occur from time to time but if the service I received is typical of B&H then they can expect much more of my business.--John W

Over the years I've ordered over ten thousand dollars worth of equipment from B&H and have had no problems.

Just a month or so ago I had to replace some stolen equipment and ended up receiving the wrong ball head. I emailed them and got a RMA--a week later I had the replacement.

In all of my dealings with then I haven't notice an "attitude".

I suspect, however, that if someone goes in with an attitude it'll be returned...

Hey Lee, next time you call your friends at Delta, could you ask what
the availability on the TS-E45 is? It has a little email symbol in the
list; I assume that means it's currently out of stock.

I don't buy photo mags much anymore, and can't ever seem to find
anything on Adorama web site.

Lee Rothman said:

Jason Wu said:

adorama is even worse than B&H when it comes to attidude, though.
in my personal dealings, B&H customer reps are actually reasonably
nice.

Zero said:

It seems the most common complaint about B&H is attitude. And the
common explanation is it is a New York thing. Well, maybe the
consumer should not accept that even. Part of the shopping
experience is dealing with customer service. So I am glad everyone
is raving about the treatment they are getting from delta, Canoga,
etc. Perhaps that will spur B&H into improving their salespersons'
attitudes. When you are #1 and there is not a close #2,
complacency sets in. Its good for the consumer to have more than
one choice.

Click to expand...

--
jason: http://www.jcwphoto.net

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I like many others have had nothing but great experiences. Over the last year I have bought for myself or for friends at least 15-20K worth of equipment and it all arrived perfectly and promptly. And they have handled the occasional return with no-hassle professionalism. In my experience they have been by far the best online merchant I have ever dealt with. And they have the best ecommerce website I have seen.

Given the posts here about the possibility of the shipper causing the problem prompts me to make some observations:

• I always use the FedEx saver 2 day shipping choice
• I find it interesting that it seems like the people posting problems often have repeatedly had problems, while many, many people like me have repeatedly perfect experiences. Could it be that the chain of shipping depots between B&H and these people are the problem? That would be a logical explaination of the patterns I see reported.

Peter Gregg said:

I saw a few threads in here about B&H. I know Lee put his story
here and he can authenticate that they seem to be in a turn around.

So many people have said "they are the best". Now all these stories
are cropping up. This seem to be happening more and more often. Are
we seeing the turn around of a big company? First little
complaints, then bigger ones? Then huge ones?

I usually put it off, but I think you should make up your own mind.
Here is a new story complete with pictures. What do you think of
the box on this brand new item from B&H? Remember, someone at B&H
had to see it before it was shipped out:

http://64.49.211.153/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2426

Click to expand...

Mike,
I agree, looks like shipper damage & was probably repackaged by UPS.

Jim C.

Mike Salzlechner said:

Peter

i seriously doubt that anybody would send out a box like that. But
there is always the shipper. We had numerous occasions where
packages where busted and repackaged by UPS where even the content
of multiple smashed boxes from different shippers was mixed up.
This is more what this looks like.

--
Michael Salzlechner
StarZen Digital Imaging
http://www.starzen.com/imaging

E-10 / D30 Photo Albums
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1605723

Click to expand...

As someone who lives in New York City and visits B&H weekly, I think everyone has to ask themselves, for the amount of people going in and out of this store and buying(judging from the checkout line) what really is the percentage of people that are unhappy. Sure we can all go to a web site that lists a hundred complaints....but a hundred complaints are nothing. Every business that deals with the consumer is going to have people who arent happy. Whats more important is how is your problem dealt with after you complain, does the company help you out and make an effort to deal with your complaint or do they **** you around and blow you off.

I dont work for B&H, but I know that you have to take your own experience in account when reading posts of complaints about companies. I have read MANY complaints about Aberdeen Computer Parts, so many in fact that if I hadnt ordered from the company I never would have, but both times I put a system together, I ordered my components from them and I had no problem. This is MY experience.

Every person will tell you a bad experience about a particular company. Someone else will tell you something good about the same one. The fact that a rep. from the company answers posts on forums says something about the comany to me.
steve amendola

Peter Gregg said:

I saw a few threads in here about B&H. I know Lee put his story
here and he can authenticate that they seem to be in a turn around.

So many people have said "they are the best". Now all these stories
are cropping up. This seem to be happening more and more often. Are
we seeing the turn around of a big company? First little
complaints, then bigger ones? Then huge ones?

I usually put it off, but I think you should make up your own mind.
Here is a new story complete with pictures. What do you think of
the box on this brand new item from B&H? Remember, someone at B&H
had to see it before it was shipped out:

http://64.49.211.153/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2426

Click to expand...

I've been ordering from B&H for years, I don't plan on changing that. Lee had a bad experience, but there are far more people that have had nothing but good experiences. The "I had a bad experience with..." threads get more attention, and therefore can make it look worse than it is. I'm not belittling Lee's or anyone else's bad experience, but I'm not going to ignore the years (and hundreds of dollars!) of good experience I've had with them.

Mark

The scanner box was inside of an undamaged shipping box, for B&H to package and ship such junk is unexcusable.

allanofcalifornia said:

Boxes do get damaged all the time during shipping. I've been told
many times that if you have anything expensive or breakable, that
you ship it 2 day air and never UPS ground. I've even been told
this by people working at UPS.

Allan

Greg M said:

I read these posts and now when shown the condition of the product
that B&H shipped they try and say that "it could have been the
shipper" (whining voice).

C'mon!!! Where there's smoke, there's fire!!

The ship is sinking!! Or at least starting to take on water.

I'm avoiding B&H and will only use there web site for price
references. Poor customer treatment is not always worth the
cheapest price, oh wait, they aren't the cheapest anyways!

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I have bought from B&H and always felt that thier sales staff was ok. But the customer service staff can seem a little testy. But then with the volume of business they do, customer service can suffer. Part of the issue as I see it as working for a dealer is that some consumers want nothing but the best price. But there are trade offs when you have to cut your margins. Why else do people feel that they get better service at Nordstrums verses K Mart?

Many will note that I beat the drum about supporting your local dealer. The reason is that customer service will generally be better than through other sources. But you pay a higher price for that. It boils down to that you can't have your cake and eat it too.

While the companies you mention may provide the support at this time; if they grow to the level of business that B&H has, then their service may end up suffering. Or they may be forced to charge higher prices.

Zero said:

It seems the most common complaint about B&H is attitude. And the
common explanation is it is a New York thing. Well, maybe the
consumer should not accept that even. Part of the shopping
experience is dealing with customer service. So I am glad everyone
is raving about the treatment they are getting from delta, Canoga,
etc. Perhaps that will spur B&H into improving their salespersons'
attitudes. When you are #1 and there is not a close #2,
complacency sets in. Its good for the consumer to have more than
one choice.

Click to expand...

I don't know about California; but here in Virginia you are required to pay the sales taxes on mail order items when you file your income taxes. The state can (though has not yet done so); look at shipping records to determine if there is a tax liability.

No one enjoys paying taxes. I know that I don't. Yet in order to have the services that we want we have to pay them. If more people start to try and skirt sales taxes, the state will only find other ways to tax. And those may end up cost the consumer more than what they would have paid in sales taxes.

Before everyone says anything about the waste in state spending; when is that last time you wrote to your representative to complain? And when was the last time you voted them out? Unfortunately here in the US we have taken our right to vote and participate for granted.

Sorry Jason, but you hit one of my hot buttons in regards to mail order. I am all for saving money on the purchase price if that is what the consumer desires. But when it comes to supporting the good of all through taxes that is a different matter.

Jason Wu said:

adorama is even worse than B&H when it comes to attidude, though.
in my personal dealings, B&H customer reps are actually reasonably
nice.

Zero said:

It seems the most common complaint about B&H is attitude. And the
common explanation is it is a New York thing. Well, maybe the
consumer should not accept that even. Part of the shopping
experience is dealing with customer service. So I am glad everyone
is raving about the treatment they are getting from delta, Canoga,
etc. Perhaps that will spur B&H into improving their salespersons'
attitudes. When you are #1 and there is not a close #2,
complacency sets in. Its good for the consumer to have more than
one choice.

Click to expand...

--
jason: http://www.jcwphoto.net

Click to expand...

I too saw the box. My question is, was the outer box a box that was supplied by B&H? Or could it have been a repack by who ever the shipping company was?

Jason Wu said:

Peter Gregg said:

Actually, I was a little more concerned about what the box looked
like.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I saw the box later on in the thread (on page 2).

It looked pretty bad.

And farther down the thread the woman reported that the scanner
didn't work when plugged in. So obviously more than the box was
damaged.

--
jason: http://www.jcwphoto.net

Click to expand...

Where's the evidence? B&H customers know that B&H ships in a box with security tape. Where is the box the damaged box was shipped in? It would be so easy to post photos of both so everyone could see. Then we would know rather than have to guess is it the shipper or B&H. Why is it that whenever someone complains they leave out the photos?

Greg M said:

I read these posts and now when shown the condition of the product
that B&H shipped they try and say that "it could have been the
shipper" (whining voice).

C'mon!!! Where there's smoke, there's fire!!

The ship is sinking!! Or at least starting to take on water.

I'm avoiding B&H and will only use there web site for price
references. Poor customer treatment is not always worth the
cheapest price, oh wait, they aren't the cheapest anyways!

Click to expand...

--Bill

Greg,

I respectfully disagree. The extent that the box was damaged seems to indicate otherwise. There are always to sides to a story. Why is it so hard to believe that the shipping company did the damge and tried to hide it? What would B&H or any other retailer gain by trying to ship out a damaged product like that? Or at least not checking it to be sure it worked?

The real issue was the way B&H answered the concerns of the customer. I don't think anyone was whinning here; just trying to put out the fires that some seem to be trying to stoke.

Chip

Greg M said:

I read these posts and now when shown the condition of the product
that B&H shipped they try and say that "it could have been the
shipper" (whining voice).

C'mon!!! Where there's smoke, there's fire!!

The ship is sinking!! Or at least starting to take on water.

I'm avoiding B&H and will only use there web site for price
references. Poor customer treatment is not always worth the
cheapest price, oh wait, they aren't the cheapest anyways!

Click to expand...

Have we had confirmation that the outside box was indeed the box that B&H placed the product box into?

Jack O'Neill said:

allanofcalifornia said:

Boxes do get damaged all the time during shipping. I've been told
many times that if you have anything expensive or breakable, that
you ship it 2 day air and never UPS ground. I've even been told
this by people working at UPS.

Allan

Greg M said:

I read these posts and now when shown the condition of the product
that B&H shipped they try and say that "it could have been the
shipper" (whining voice).

C'mon!!! Where there's smoke, there's fire!!

The ship is sinking!! Or at least starting to take on water.

I'm avoiding B&H and will only use there web site for price
references. Poor customer treatment is not always worth the
cheapest price, oh wait, they aren't the cheapest anyways!

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Here's the thing. I've ordered scanners before, and new LCD panel monitors. So have several friends of mine. (Granted, they weren't from B&H). But, every single time, those packages arrived NOT inside of a brown shipping box - they were shipped in the ORIGINAL scanner box, with NO additional box surrounding it.

This makes me suspicious -- that the scanner box was damaged, and put ina brown box by SOMEBODY to cover up that fact. But it's not clear WHO that somebody is.

Now, if somebody will vouch that B&H always ships out scanners like this inside an outer brown box, that changes things. But that hasn't been my experience with scanners from other companies.

Jack O'Neill said:

The scanner box was inside of an undamaged shipping box, for B&H to
package and ship such junk is unexcusable.

Click to expand...

--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net

Hi Chip,
Read the 1st line of

http://www.dpreview.com/misc/rdr.asp?url=http://64.49.211.153/forums/showthread.php !s=&threadid=2426

It says it was packaged inside of another box that was undamaged.

Chip Lenkiewicz said:

Jack O'Neill said:

allanofcalifornia said:

Boxes do get damaged all the time during shipping. I've been told
many times that if you have anything expensive or breakable, that
you ship it 2 day air and never UPS ground. I've even been told
this by people working at UPS.

Allan

Greg M said:

I read these posts and now when shown the condition of the product
that B&H shipped they try and say that "it could have been the
shipper" (whining voice).

C'mon!!! Where there's smoke, there's fire!!

The ship is sinking!! Or at least starting to take on water.

I'm avoiding B&H and will only use there web site for price
references. Poor customer treatment is not always worth the
cheapest price, oh wait, they aren't the cheapest anyways!

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I think B&H will continue to loose business as their policy of re-selling returned items becomes more public. I had no idea that they had this policy when I spent 5,000 + with them last year. Being a member of PPA, PPA of PA, and Triangle Associates, I am going to make sure that my colleagues are made aware of this policy.

As far as someone having to touch an item before they make their final purchase decision... I suggest they buy retail. If you are placing an order with a mail order company, you should know what you want and not expect the company to accept a return because you've changed your mind. I really hope B&H takes a good long look at this policy and stops sending used items to customers expecting new.

Peter Gregg said:

I saw a few threads in here about B&H. I know Lee put his story
here and he can authenticate that they seem to be in a turn around.

So many people have said "they are the best". Now all these stories
are cropping up. This seem to be happening more and more often. Are
we seeing the turn around of a big company? First little
complaints, then bigger ones? Then huge ones?

I usually put it off, but I think you should make up your own mind.
Here is a new story complete with pictures. What do you think of
the box on this brand new item from B&H? Remember, someone at B&H
had to see it before it was shipped out:

http://64.49.211.153/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2426

Click to expand...