how to shoot lowlight with d200?

what are the best settings when shooting iso 800+ to keep noise down with d200?

also, is neatimage the best software to make lowlight shots look clean/nice?

thanks,
remi

I am not being funny...

EXPOSE the scene properly at ANY ISO to get the best results. All else being equal, try to reduce the effect of Blue Channel noise, so cool down your scene if it is lit by warm light.

Use a blue filter at ISO 800 plus, under adverse conditions to improve your shots.

Or, fill it with a flash, especially the shadows. Nikons suffer most in shadow areas at high ISO.

Cheers
--
Manny
http://www.pbase.com/gonzalu/
http://www.mannyphoto.com/
FCAS Member - http://manny.org/FCAS

Have you tried doing tests? try various settings to see what works best for you.

--

I went ahead and loaded a custom WB curve to the D200 to begin with that will more accurately reflect exposure than what you usually have.

This is the core of noise reduction - to score a perfect exposure is almost a requirement to get low noise images with the D200 (color noise, the luma noise I'm not sure if you can do anything with it)

Additionally, go to your custom image settings, and set 0 on everything (sharpness, hue, tone comp. etc) Make sure color mode is set to Adobe RBG and mode II.

Now, what you have is not a noise free camera, what you have is a camera that will give you a better histogram to help you pin a good exposure.

IMPORTANT:

This ONLY applies to shooting RAW. If you're a jpeg shooter, disregard everything I wrote here.

I got my information from this forum, someone named Julia wrote a post about it, I tried it, and it worked for me. I will try to locate it and add the link in a reply here.

If anyone could further explain, in layman terms (I'm not a pro) how to reduce luma noise, I'll be that much closer to even better images

--
The sixth sick shiek's sixth sheep's sick
--
Stuff about me at: http://www.digitaldias.com

Hi, Which filter are you refering to. Interesting concept have a few blue filters but their factor is pretty heavy. Thanks
--
deziner-d

I would recommend leaving your focus assist on

The main problem at hi-iso is mostly due to the decreased dynamic range of the sensor. As long as you're shooting in low contrast situation and you nail down the exposure, no problem, but when you're shooting a hi-contrast scene, you're very likely to exceed the DR of the sensor... you should either expose for HL and unfortunalely accept a lot of noise in the shadow areas, or expose for LL and accept burned HL. Using curves is some kind of a trick to reduce the contrast of the scene to accommodate for the reduced DR of the sensor... but curves do have a negative side effect on colors and yield pics that loose all sense of faithfullness.

I've seen thousand of threats discussing hi-iso noise, I've also seen many OP's posting great hi-iso pics, but a lot of great hi-iso pics were either shot with plenty of light (eg: f/5.6 and 1/250) where noise is not a problem or in low contrast where the trick is take care of the exposure, some also used heavy NR in PP (Neatimage) and virtually came up with a clean pic at the expense of detail, other converted to B&W, which is a good trick to take car of the noise, and some reduced the resolution, that also helps a lot but at the expense of detail when you enlarge... This is why it is extremely difficult to compare hi-iso experiences, even for the same camera (some D200 owners claim it is superb even at iso 1600, other are disguted...), I'm not even talking comparing pics from 2 different dslr's...

Let me say that shooting hi-iso is not easy and always some sort of compromise... gear helps too... for static subjects, a tripod or VR lenses is a good option, otherwise, fast lenses (f/2.8 or better) and flash are great friends too. If all the above fails, there's a rumor about a dslr that performs about 1.5 stop better at hi-iso (1.5 stop means you can get the same image quality with 3 times less light)

The blue filter trick is very relevant, but will require you to give a longer exposure to bring up the blue channel content.

It isn't fixing the blue channel noise in itself. It just prevents you from blowing the other channels while exposing longer to capture more information on the blue channel.

All this leads to Manny being totally correct...

... low light is a compromised circumstance for photography. Sometimes you have to add light to get an acceptable result, including flash as a better option than having no option at all.

remi said:

what are the best settings when shooting iso 800+ to keep noise
down with d200?

Click to expand...

I find ISO 800 quite excellent on the D200 as long as you get the exposure right. If you have to push the exposure in post-processing to brighten things up, you will introduce more noise to even a low ISO image.

That said, some available light photos look great just a tad underexposed, and then left that way. If you were photographing in a dimly lit room, you don't necessarily want the photos to look like the room was brighter than it really was. This depends on the mood you are trying to create though.

Another thing is keep your tripod handy. It depends on what you want to photograph, but sometimes a tripod and lower ISO and shutter speeds will be your best solution. Not so easy for available light candids though. For candids I often use Auto-ISO set to increase ISO at the slowest shutter speed I can reasonably use for the focal length or subject I'm shooting. A FAST lens is also a good choice. I like the 35mm f/2 for available light candids. I also have a 50mm f/1.8, but I can handhold the 35 a bit slower since it's a wider lens.

remi said:

also, is neatimage the best software to make lowlight shots look
clean/nice?

Click to expand...

I use NoiseWare Pro, but any of the noise reduction software will be fine. Most offer free demos, so I just tried a few and picked the one I liked the most. I think I tried NoiseWare, NeatImage, and Noise Ninja. These programs really do a good job of reducing noise, but you have to sometimes play with the settings to make sure they don't reduce noise at the expense of too much loss of detail. I will sometimes run noise reduction only on part of an image, or only on a specific channel (like the blue channel). I have found that up to ISO 800 I don't even bother with noise reduction for many shots. It depends though... if I underexpose and then push, I'll be running noise reduction. If I want to print a large print, I might run noise reduction on some pics I would otherwise leave alone. That's important to consider: Noise you see on the computer won't always be visible in small 4x6 prints. So I frequently leave candid photos alone unless I have a really good one that I want to print large.

And as others mentioned, low light often means warm incandescent light. Sometimes a little warmth is exactly what you want, but often the pics will look too yellow. Custom white balance is a good idea for these situations, and shooting RAW will make it easier to adjust in post-processing. I often shoot available light candids in RAW+JPEG Fine or Normal. I use the JPEGs (often discarding the RAW file) unless I have a problem photo... then I use the RAW file instead. For most other types of photos I shoot RAW.

Sean

I just sold my D200 & 5 F2.8 or faster lenses because you can't get decent high ISO images with it. At least not to my standards. I shot indoor sports and HS football at night. 1600 is a must. I bought a Canon 1D MKIIN.

You need to shoot RAW. WB recovery is impossible in Jpeg and any attempt will destroy the image...period.

The best thing you can do is make sure you shoot to center the historgram. The NEF files are painfully unforgiving in PP with exposure changes. A touch of th EV Comp slider and the whole image goes noisy and detail disappears....especially in the shadows around the eyes and inside helmets. The OOF and shadow backgrounds just go completely noisy.

My success with noise reduction was marginal. But I don't like noise reduction. Plastic skin just bugs me. I own Bibble Pro, Noise Ninja, Neat Image, ACR, Phase One and some others I am sure I forgot...none seem to work that well on the D200 files. Bibble does a super job on my CR2 files.

The D200 is not a bad camera...in fact it is an excellent one especially considering the price....but it is not a high ISO performer. Yes I have tack sharp ISO 1600 shoots in controlled studio lighting...but who does that????

In real world ambient light and high ISO situations, the D200 is not the best solution.....try a Nikon D50 or any current Canon model

BTW...I have been a Nikon owner for 25 years....so this was a tough change for me.

--
Ooohh, there is a thin line between Saturday night & Sunday morning.
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One thing I forgot to mention is that I prefer the look of the noise my D200 produces compared to the noise my D70 produces. The D200 produces less chroma noise in most of my shots, and the noise tends to look less digital and more film-like. Sometimes I think it looks fine... especially in black and white.

One of my relatives gave me a coffee table book of Life Magazine's best photographs of the last 70 years. Many of the photos were taken with grainy high-speed film. There is still something a bit more organic about film grain, but the D200 seems closer to it than my D70 was.

That said I still don't think noise is a big problem in my photography. I didn't consider it much of an issue with the D70 either. If I shot regularly at 1600 or 3200 I might feel different, but I almost never need ISOs like that for what I do.

Sean

I too would leave it on if you can....but sporting events that bar flashes will not allow the Nikon AF assist to be used. So check the venue rules...

I say "Nikon AF assist" because Nikon (D200 anyway) uses a white light. Canon uses a red IR beam...that is allowed.

--
Ooohh, there is a thin line between Saturday night & Sunday morning.
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Pedro Dias said:

I got my information from this forum, someone named Julia wrote a
post about it, I tried it, and it worked for me. I will try to
locate it and add the link in a reply here.

Click to expand...

That will be Julia Borg who is VERY knowledgeable on this subject.

I agree with most of what has been said so far.

Most important thing is a fast lens f2.8 or better. Tripod or monopod is essential unless your subject is not moving in which case VR will do.

Expose for your subject not the shot and frame tight as you can (But keep in mind that longer lenses require higher shutter speeds so maybe cropping tight in PP makes sense.)

You cannot use AUTO ISO at 3200 on my D80 (not sure about the D200) so I set ISO at 1600 and push the shot a couple of stops where needed using S mode at f2.8 and dialing in the shutter speed. That way I don't get stuck with ISO 3200 when taking a series of shots when I don't need it.

Thom Hogan says that noise on the D80, and therefore I assume D200, rises equally when underexposing or upping the ISO. So 1600 one stop underexposed will give you the same noise as 3200.

What else? Use RAW and switch off NR and sharpening (unless you are taking simulateous jpegs).

Pay careful attention to white balance. Incandescent light has about one stop less dynamic range (because of the blue channel - Thanks to Julia for that nugget). Obviously not all incandescent light is alike. The setting on on the camera is really for studio lighting not domestic lighting so setting your WB may make sense. Certainly Auto WB is not a good idea.

I have the added problem of doing quite a bit with theatre lighting. Anyone know of a cheap meter for colour temperature? I could really do with checking out the variation between scenes to increase my knowledge of what WB to set.

Finally flourescent light has different colour temperatures according to where in the AC cycle you photograph. You need speeds of no more than 1/100 in the UK or 1/120th in the US otherwise your photos will have a colour cast depending on where in the cycle you take your shot. I am not sure whether this will apply where you have a large number of flourescent tubes in a room. Logically they would all follow the same AC cycle but maybe somebody can give a more definative answer on this.

Finally while stopping action is difficult quite a bit can be done by waiting for the pose and using darkness for the mood.

This shot was taken on my old E-20 ISO 320 1/60th at f3.2 using a monopod



--
Chris Elliott

P.S. That's my daughter singing a number from Grease!

Nikon D80
Sigma 17-70 f2.8-4.5
Sigma 24-70 f2.8
Nikkor AF 70-210 f4
SB-600
Capture NX
Qimage

http://PlacidoD.zenfolio.com/

Noise control is a weak portion on many Nikon DSLR. The 2 models that are famous for this are the D2H and the D200. ISO 800 is not really a huge problem though, Noise equalizes better in my opinion and looks better than the noise at 640 and 1000 ... Might just be my eyes.

Here is a little trick for the ones using Nikon Capture and Capture NX.

Do not use the Noise reduction on these SW, turn it completely off.

Use the Moire noise reduction at high setting instead and look at the chroma noise go away. It takes a bit of time to surface the whole image but it works quite well in my opinion. Then convert the picture to Tif or jpeg and if not satisfied, use a second NR in PSCS2 like Noise Ninja.

Other trick, do not sharpen the picture in the camera or reset it to no sharpening if you shoot RAW in Capture NX. Do you sharpening at the late stage if you must sharpen.

Remember that on print, noise doesn't show as much as in the screen ...

A bit of noise will also make the image look more natural at times as well.

remi said:

what are the best settings when shooting iso 800+ to keep noise
down with d200?

also, is neatimage the best software to make lowlight shots look
clean/nice?

thanks,
remi

Click to expand...

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Share the Knowledge

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Some pictures I like:
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Remi:

Like everyone is telling you, the first step is to make sure your image is properly exposed; that's imperative. If you don't do that I think you'll be sorely disappointed no matter what nr software you use after the fact. I've got a couple of images at ISO 1250 that I didn't use any NR on and they came out great. I can't post the examples to this website, but if you send me your email addy, I'll send you a link to them.

I've got NI, Bibble Pro (which uses noise ninja). They both have their strengths and weaknesses but, in my opinion, Bibble Pro does do a superior job of removing noise AND leaving the detail. On the downside, it crashes all the time!!
--
Stacey

goorackerelite said:

I would recommend leaving your focus assist on

Click to expand...

I often leave it off because it either isn't allowed or will distract your subject as much as using the flash would. With a fast lens my D70 or D200 can focus accurately in very low light without the AF assist lamp.

I shoot sports (specifically fights) all the time and flash isn't allowed. Here are my suggestions.

1) Try to shoot no higher than ISO 800, but if you have to, you can take decent photos at 1600...especially if you're only making 4x6" or 5x7" prints.

2) Shoot with a fast lens at F 2 or 1.8....the Nikon 50mm F 1.8 lens is good and cheap.

3) Shoot only in RAW.

4) Gray card your scenes and use it to adjust white balance in post processing.

5) Noise reduction software works pretty well....I normally use Noise Ninja but have read good reviews on Neat Image.

6) Make sure your shots are in focus...especially with the limited depth of field and focus hunting you'll be doing. When I'm shooting, once I get a shot focused, I lock the focus switch with my left hand while shooting additional shots of the same scene.

remi said:

what are the best settings when shooting iso 800+ to keep noise
down with d200?

also, is neatimage the best software to make lowlight shots look
clean/nice?

thanks,
remi

Click to expand...

GBRandy said:

I too would leave it on if you can....but sporting events that bar
flashes will not allow the Nikon AF assist to be used. So check
the venue rules...

Click to expand...

i'd imagine that, when shooting sports, the AF mode should be in 'continuous' mode, in which case, the AF assist light is disabled anyway.

GBRandy said:

I say "Nikon AF assist" because Nikon (D200 anyway) uses a white
light. Canon uses a red IR beam...that is allowed.

Click to expand...

AFAIK, the non-1-series canon DSLRs use a strobe from the built-in flash for AF assist. all canons, as well as the D200, will use an external flash's IR focus assist lamp when one is mounted. but again, only in single-focus mode...in continuous or servo AF modes, no AF assist lights/beams/lamps are used.

at 1,000K, I would use a Cyan filter...

For anything from 2800K to 3800K that you wish to bring up to 5500K which is normal daylight balance on most things , I would use the 80? range of filtration, so an 80A for 3200K to 5500K conversion. An 80B for 3400K to 5500K correction, and an 80C for 3800K to 5500K.

Do this to taste of course. You may prefer one or the other. But it will definitely help your noise issues at high ISO. If you filter the lights, your camera can be set to daylight balance which will make the blue coefficients more pleasing to deal with in post... less boosted noise.

To convert from cool to Tungsten balance which is about 3200K, use the 82? series filters... so 82A, 82B, 82C etc.

Warming filters, for when you are in cool blue light and want to bring it down a bit to a warmer shade, use the 85? series filters

Cheers
--
Manny
http://www.pbase.com/gonzalu/
http://www.mannyphoto.com/
FCAS Member - http://manny.org/FCAS