Dermot Conner
Well-known member
I would be happier than a happy thing, liberally soused with joy.
I forsee
I forsee
-- All is compromise
-
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Canon at PMA - *Competition*
- Thread starter Joe Griffo
- Start date
B
Bob Williams
Guest
Back in the pre-1D days, the scut was that Canon had sent
out four different versions of the camera for testing, and
no one got to see more than one of them. There were three
different sensors discussed. The original release was the one
we all know about. What we do not know is what the other
three versions were, or what sensor they had in them. Obviously,
one of them will be in the D60. Could yet a third be in a studio
camera? Quite easily. As the X3 announcement should have
demonstrated quite plainly, the studio camera market is very very
different than the portable camera market. Will Canon answer
with a Pro90 replacement? No, most likely not. They can't
market it in the consumer price range, and the D7 clearly demo'ed
what happens if you get outside that price range, as did the
Pro90 itself. Right now there are chain stores stuck with E-10
inventory that will not sell, even 600$ below list price. And that
is without having the E-20 on the shelves beside it. Right now,
unless Minolta makes a move that has not even made the
rumer circuit, there will be little in the way of really superior
prosumer hardware before fall, unless you consider the new
Fuji's a big upgrade. They may be. That is yet to be seen, but
even their production will be much later in the year. If X3 turns
out to be what it promises, then all of those projects we already
know about will be in trouble, even for production later this year.
The promised Oly/Kodak project will have to be completely
redone, or it will have to come out at a rediculously low price
point. Does that sound like a project Kodak is involved in to
you? If the X3 is what it promises to be, and Phil plainly thinks
it is at least close, then the "Big Bang" just gave a bunch of
executives new ulcers, and will provide for the slowest upgrade
year in the last 4, as they scramble to figure out what to do,
and how to do it. Right now, I am still shooting the G1 that I
hate most of the time. Other than the D7, there is really nothing
to upgrade to that is worth the money. I don't expect that to
change for at least 6 months unless the new Fuji's actually do
what they claim this time.
out four different versions of the camera for testing, and
no one got to see more than one of them. There were three
different sensors discussed. The original release was the one
we all know about. What we do not know is what the other
three versions were, or what sensor they had in them. Obviously,
one of them will be in the D60. Could yet a third be in a studio
camera? Quite easily. As the X3 announcement should have
demonstrated quite plainly, the studio camera market is very very
different than the portable camera market. Will Canon answer
with a Pro90 replacement? No, most likely not. They can't
market it in the consumer price range, and the D7 clearly demo'ed
what happens if you get outside that price range, as did the
Pro90 itself. Right now there are chain stores stuck with E-10
inventory that will not sell, even 600$ below list price. And that
is without having the E-20 on the shelves beside it. Right now,
unless Minolta makes a move that has not even made the
rumer circuit, there will be little in the way of really superior
prosumer hardware before fall, unless you consider the new
Fuji's a big upgrade. They may be. That is yet to be seen, but
even their production will be much later in the year. If X3 turns
out to be what it promises, then all of those projects we already
know about will be in trouble, even for production later this year.
The promised Oly/Kodak project will have to be completely
redone, or it will have to come out at a rediculously low price
point. Does that sound like a project Kodak is involved in to
you? If the X3 is what it promises to be, and Phil plainly thinks
it is at least close, then the "Big Bang" just gave a bunch of
executives new ulcers, and will provide for the slowest upgrade
year in the last 4, as they scramble to figure out what to do,
and how to do it. Right now, I am still shooting the G1 that I
hate most of the time. Other than the D7, there is really nothing
to upgrade to that is worth the money. I don't expect that to
change for at least 6 months unless the new Fuji's actually do
what they claim this time.
Matt Gannon
Leading Member
I'm with you Dermot - the Pro 90 37-370mm zoom with IS is still hard to beat. Despite the "10X" label on the Sony F707, it is only 5X optical.
It'll be hard to match a 10X zoom to a 5 MP sensor - that Sony CCD exceeds the coverage of the Pro 90 lens. So if there is a Pro 90 successor it may look more like the F707. But then its not much different from a G2 + teleconverter. GKL
It'll be hard to match a 10X zoom to a 5 MP sensor - that Sony CCD exceeds the coverage of the Pro 90 lens. So if there is a Pro 90 successor it may look more like the F707. But then its not much different from a G2 + teleconverter. GKL
Matt Gannon
Leading Member
B
Bob Williams
Guest
Unreliable metering, unreliable auto focus, slow shutter speeds
to use the ISO 50 to get clean images, and color issues. Very
nice camera when a tripod and the 420EX are used to shoot
static targets with a careful setup. Lousy wildlife/ walk around
camera, and the very worst for one of my favorite subjects.
Roses. My usage and it's strengths are not compatible. Not the
cameras fault. I got it as a replacement for another camera
when the other died and the store did not carry that one any
more, or else I would not have it. My biggest hope is that it
will die between June and Febuary of next year so the store can
give me something that suits my needs a little better to replace
it, as it has an extended warranty.
to use the ISO 50 to get clean images, and color issues. Very
nice camera when a tripod and the 420EX are used to shoot
static targets with a careful setup. Lousy wildlife/ walk around
camera, and the very worst for one of my favorite subjects.
Roses. My usage and it's strengths are not compatible. Not the
cameras fault. I got it as a replacement for another camera
when the other died and the store did not carry that one any
more, or else I would not have it. My biggest hope is that it
will die between June and Febuary of next year so the store can
give me something that suits my needs a little better to replace
it, as it has an extended warranty.
bluh
Forum Enthusiast
Joe Griffo
Well-known member
But don't you expect at least an announcement? Canon would be committing corporate suicide if they didn't. Can-RON. (Get it - Canon + Enron - Sorry)
Joe Griffo
Well-known member
But why not just stick the inside of the G2 into the frame of the Pro90 with the 10X, or 5X if we had to outside. Just seems easy to me. Im not the physicist here. But it seems that its just too expensive to do that. I propose a marriage of G2 and Pro 90 to make - The G "OO"
Joe Griffo
Well-known member
Probably because he is sick of it. lol. Just kidding
I'm not so sure if it's the large prints that are desired as much as the high definition crops. Just my take.
Jim
http://www.pbase.com/jiml
Joe Griffo
Well-known member
I would argue both. But hey, if you're going to introduce a camera at PMA, shouldn't the only downside be that we have to pay for it??? I mean really, $1,000 and we still don't get perfect yet. Even the Professional versions (+2000 dollars) don't give us perfect. I think these companies, esp Canon really need to step up here.
jimk
Well-known member
Niagara Falls? hop on in!!
Peace Bridge at night? come on, you can brave the river!
City Hall? King Kong climbed it, why can't I?
Thanks Bob, I am glad another Western New Yorker can back me up.
Peace Bridge at night? come on, you can brave the river!
City Hall? King Kong climbed it, why can't I?
Thanks Bob, I am glad another Western New Yorker can back me up.
[email protected]
Matt Gannon
Leading Member
Do you think that the G2 is equally useless. I have one on order and am a little nervous. I wonder what digicam there is out there to beat it.
Matt.
Matt.
jimk
Well-known member
let's hear it for the 5x5. now that is something i would line up for. beats the pants off my current 2x2.
[email protected]
Dermot Conner
Well-known member
Yes, here is the Rub, I didn't consider the G2 + Tele combo because it seemed to me like a bit of an unholy kludge. I don't mind mucking about with screw threads in the studio, but out in the wild, where this camera is used, I absolutely abhor the prospect of lens converters and tele converters and multiple lens caps and all the protective gear required, grit in the threads, crud between elements etc. I also dislike the time taken to switch. The Pro90's zoom is very slow (in both senses of the word) compared to my EOS lenses, but it is still a damn sight quicker than screwing on an extra adaptor.
In terms of body type, I wouldn't mind the Pro90 becoming more like the f707 as it inevitable would given a bigger sensor, I still trust Canon to produce decent usability and ergonomics (please Canon, a rocker switch, not the blasted zoom ring) Actually, I think a compromise of the order of 'Bigger lens, 8X zoom with IS, 4MP, G2 codebase' would make a lot of folk happy. I could live with a small reduction in the zoom range, and no matter how big they make the lens, it'll still be smaller than what you would need to carry around in your bag to support even a basic EOS setup.
Well, all good wishful thinking, whatever Canon come out with, I'll be looking at wistfully for a year or two, unless Beloved has an attack of amnesia or I get a hell of a bonus, I'm going to be learning how to work around the (few) shortcomings of the Pro90 for some time to come
Dermot
In terms of body type, I wouldn't mind the Pro90 becoming more like the f707 as it inevitable would given a bigger sensor, I still trust Canon to produce decent usability and ergonomics (please Canon, a rocker switch, not the blasted zoom ring) Actually, I think a compromise of the order of 'Bigger lens, 8X zoom with IS, 4MP, G2 codebase' would make a lot of folk happy. I could live with a small reduction in the zoom range, and no matter how big they make the lens, it'll still be smaller than what you would need to carry around in your bag to support even a basic EOS setup.
Well, all good wishful thinking, whatever Canon come out with, I'll be looking at wistfully for a year or two, unless Beloved has an attack of amnesia or I get a hell of a bonus, I'm going to be learning how to work around the (few) shortcomings of the Pro90 for some time to come
Dermot
-- All is compromise
Dermot Conner
Well-known member
I'm not sure if you are being humorous here, but it raises an interesting point, I wonder what sort of value people consider these cameras to be. From my perspective, I have a fairly accurate idea of what is inside, and indeed what is involved in making the components from which what is inside is constructed. It will probably never cease to amaze me that they don't charge $3K for a Pro90 and $10K for a D30. I'd be interested to take some Hasselblad employees and lock them in a room with some Canon and Foveon guys, tell the lot of them that they weren't getting out until they had made the perfect prosumer digicam and threaten them with turning up the John Denver if they didn't buckle down to work. n Months later, the result would be interesting.
On a side note, does anyone reading this remember using Hassie's first digital press camera?
On a side note, does anyone reading this remember using Hassie's first digital press camera?
-- All is compromise
a bit smaller, handier shaper for the g2.... would be nice!
seems there is a bit of wasteful, clunky space, compared to the s30/40.
also, one the high end, a MUCH cheaper, quality SLR.
seems like they sort of got the lower end covered with elphs.
-steve
seems there is a bit of wasteful, clunky space, compared to the s30/40.
also, one the high end, a MUCH cheaper, quality SLR.
seems like they sort of got the lower end covered with elphs.
-steve
Joe Griffo
Well-known member
There's a new one. Leave the technology as is and strictly worry about the cameras housing. I would say thats a possibility since size is becoming more of an issue. I don't think it will get to be as small as the elf, but nonetheless, a possible omniscient one at hand. Luke, the force may be strong.
Joe Griffo
Well-known member
Can anyone be a match for Luke Skywalker? Maybe we should as him what he thinks is coming out?
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