Why the Nikon D40 "doesn't deserve" your attention.

brokenz said:

Erik37 said:

70-300 VR - this will be above €500 shipped, but I admit this one
seems
pretty good value if you want a slow lens with VR. I guess we can
thank
K-M, Sony and Pentax for Nikon not asking more for this lens.

brokenz said:

Nikon has a pretty long list of AFS zooms that are inexpensive.

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Did I miss any or do we have different definitions of inexpensive or
long list?

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brokenz said:

IMO anything below $1000US with decent optics still is inexpensive.

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Stretching to €1000 I found 3 lenses more, still not a particularly long list.

And we are talking about a camera marketed as a cost-cutter
bargain deal (it's not there yet but maybe sometime in the
future); the typical category of buyers would probably not think
that $1000 is inexpensive.

OTOH, there are plenty of old and current lenses and 3rd party lenses
for €500 or much less than that. That won't autofocus on the D40.

brokenz said:

This space for rent.

Click to expand...

How much?

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden

"What we have here aren't lasting memories. What we have here are blackmail photos." Constructive criticism of wedding photos offered at Pro Digital Talk.

I'm not that optimistic, I don't think there is room for a
"major breakthrough" for sensors. Physics. Dynamic range
can become much better but not sensitivity. And a DSLR
will always be better at subject isolation.

But Fuji sensor and NR with Panasonic speed, handling,
build and stabilised lens would be a lot better camera than
what is available today and would be a good alternative
to a DSLR for many use(r)s.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden

Hey Guys,

I got news for you :

Nikon DO have plans to make money with YOU! whatever if it's with a D40, AF-S lenses, the next body that can take AF lenses that you'll buy... One thing's for sure : they sure want your money.

It's normal : It's called a business. This is how things works in this capitalist society.

Now please, get over it and stop telling Nikon want you to buy this or that, OF COURSE THEY DO!

Remi

Sounds like planned obsolescence to me. Sure you can AF wide angles but when you start trying to shoot action/sports with an 80-200 it isn't as easy. Too bad to get AF you will not be able to use a D40 and the old trusty and super sharp 80-200 2.8.

Barry Fitzgerald said:

Chubly said:

The argument has been, "the people who this is marketed at will
never use pin drive lenses." Sure that is a possibility but how
enthusiasts, serious, amateur and pro photographers started off
with a D200 and up? This will force these people who get into it
and enjoy photography to get a different body just for pin drive
lens AF. Seems like a plan for Nikon to make some $ with planned
obsolescence.

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Its a bit odd to say the least. Can you imagine a D200 with no pin
drive AF? And how bad that would be? I could...dead donkey. Point
here is that if you have the doesnt cost sod all pin drive
motor...you can use either..If it isnt there you cannot. So my
question to Nikon is what is so smart about your choice?

Would it not make sense, even if Nikon wanted to just make all new
lenses with an in lens motor...to have all its cameras using the
pin drive..at least for a significant time..so that you can have a
choice? Makes sense to me..

But then look at the SD.CF thing too...Nikon cannot seem to make
their minds up there either....some are SD, some are CF...not a
great choice for the multi body photographer is it..not only will
you lenses not work..but you need different cards too.!

Hey I know who wins the poorly thought out turkey award this year!
--

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and Nikon will release some pancake lenses soon. The fact it doesn't work with some lenses is really not important. You have got the other bodies if you want to use those lenses.

Otherwise I will have to get a Pentax. Hate to keep two systems, but is there another option for a small pocketable small camera? Leica M8 is too expensive to put in the pocket.

teresopolis said:

and Nikon will release some pancake lenses soon. The fact it
doesn't work with some lenses is really not important.

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It could be, indirectly, 'cause having the motor in the body
like Pentax is probably a necessity for making those small
pancakes. Once you have to put the motor in the lens,
it will become bigger. After the launch of the D40, showing
the direction Nikon are going, I think it is less likely than ever
that they will start making pancakes, sorry.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden

egordon99 said:

Can't you get the D50 for about the same price as the D40 now?

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Don't know what it's like where you live, but here is an example from Finland, Rajala Pro Shop:

D50 double kit with 18-55 and 70-300: EUR699 (this is the only one they have, out of stock on all other D50 packages)
D40 kit with 18-55: EUR699
...and of course the one which was too expensive to be in Phil's review:
Canon EOS 400D kit with 18-55: EUR799
...or why not:
Olympus E-500 body only: EUR459

Another popular store's websites ("verkkokauppa.com") are down atm, but I'd remember they where selling the D50 body only for about EUR450, and the D40 kit for about EUR800. The D50 was selling for even cheaper at some shops until they ran out of them.

All prices with VAT and all other taxes included (as all prices in Europe are).

Of course it makes sense for Nikon Inc. and their
shareholders, but it's at the expense of the
photographers who have to buy the expensive
lenses.

Companies try these things all the time, and the only
thing that stops them doing it even more than they
do is people complaining about it, spreading the word.

Actually there's an example: when Nikon encrypted the
WB data in the raw files, Adobe made this known and the
public complaints had the effect that raw developers got
access to the info (or so I understood it).

Nikon don't want people to learn about the
limitations of the D40, it's not exactly printed on
the box and selling it (almost) entirely with kit lens
serves to not draw attention to the drastic lens
limitations.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden

Lars Holm said:

and the D40 kit for about EUR800

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This should be EUR700 for D40 kit from verkkokauppa.com, and it seems as though they have ran out of D50 body only, but you can still get the kit for EUR600

Also:
Pentax K110D kit with 18-55: EUR 619

(This according to Google's cache from December 17th.)

Ominous said:

The majority of lenses for it will be MF only + the tiny VF = no way.

Sure the majority of the people buying this camera won't know that
the F4.5-F5.6 zoom they have for it sucks...atleast not right away.

Eventually they go online and see some indoor shots taken with a
fast prime....and they go and buy a cheap 50 MM prime...take it
home...and...hey...it wont autofocus?!?!?

I thought the people coming on asking why they can't use their LCD
to frame the shot on the dslr were an odd sort...now wait til they
come asking why the LCD can't be used and that their lens wont
autofocus!
--
http://www.pbase.com/ewhbalen

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Buy the wrong lens, next you'll be telling us you know people you try to put film in a DSLR

Barry Fitzgerald said:

Ist off I am not anti nikon..or anything else for that matter. This
is a nice camera..at a cheap price (not as cheap in the uk...)

No problems with the IQ...noise etc...better VF..great.

But I urge all ist time buyers to consider what you "may" want to
use lens wise. And if you want more variety, and price
ranges..avoid the D40 like the plague.

Sorry to beat the drum...but removing the in camera AF motor is
plain daft. Complete deal breaker for many. You have been warned.
Dumbed down controls etc also not welcomed. If Nikon had the sense
to slap this out at £299 instead of £399..then maybe it could be
overlooked....but sorry this isnt convincing..

Call me a sceptic, but this smells like a ploy to sell Nikon lenses..

If it doesn't bother..then fire away. Myself well I would like the
option to use 3rd party lenses..and all of them. And s/h ebay jobs.

So enjoy, but if the handcuff system approach doesn't
appeal...check out something else..there have been better 6mp cams
on the market.....
--

Click to expand...

So you reckon removing the AF motor was a plain daft idea by Nikon, well I tell you what if they drop the D40 or re-introduce the AF motor into the base DSLR I'll stop posting, otherwise you stop. Deal or no deal

I knew someone that though digital film was so expensive compared to regular film. I came to find out they would fill their card, and buy a new one, and keep the full card in a drawer. They had like 10 1 gig cards because they never thought to copy the images to their computer.

So I could see your example being true

FujicaMan said:

Buy the wrong lens, next you'll be telling us you know people you
try to put film in a DSLR

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/ewhalen

Be reasonable Barry. Maybe the D40 is not for everyone, but to reach a new market or selling price, trade-offs must be made. And this one is perfectly reasonable, the D40 is a low-cost, entry-level DSLR. Owners may not have more than 1 or 2 low-cost zoom lenses. Don't like it? Buy a more expensive DSLR with more features and benefits. That's why Nikon offers those, too.

Cheers,
JB

Erik37 said:

Of course it makes sense for Nikon Inc. and their
shareholders, but it's at the expense of the
photographers who have to buy the expensive
lenses.

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I seriously doubt the consumer who buys a $500 camera body ($600 as a kit) is going to go out and buy any lense that cost about $300. Nikon has a line of inexpensive DX lenses that this camer can use, will cover anything form 18mm to 200 and cost under $300 such as the 18-55 mm that came with the IR converted D50 I bought and the 55mm-200mm that sells around $260 US. That is all that the target consumer for this camera will want. People that appreciate the quality that Pro grade glass offers is not going buy a super compact, feature striped DSLR body to stick it on.

Erik37 said:

Companies try these things all the time, and the only
thing that stops them doing it even more than they
do is people complaining about it, spreading the word.

Click to expand...

What wrong did Nikon do? The rush for these companies to produce a sub $500 DSLR is on. Nikon basically took a D50 and stripped away the features they felt a consumer could do with out and made a sub $500 body and added $100 lense for a kit. Maybe canon will wait another year when costs of parts drops more and they can do a Sub $500 camera and leave the AF motor in.

Erik37 said:

Actually there's an example: when Nikon encrypted the
WB data in the raw files, Adobe made this known and the
public complaints had the effect that raw developers got
access to the info (or so I understood it).

Click to expand...

Electronic companies make their products use proprietary parts and software. It's more about protecting their product line. Nikon is here to make money for Nikon. Not Adobe.

Erik37 said:

Nikon don't want people to learn about the
limitations of the D40, it's not exactly printed on
the box and selling it (almost) entirely with kit lens
serves to not draw attention to the drastic lens
limitations.

Click to expand...

If this were the case I guess they wouldn't include a manual in the box detailing what this camera has and doesn't have. Seemed Dpreview listed these limitation in their preview of the camera, so the information was avaible from somewhere.

Erik37 said:

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden

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jb_va2001 said:

Be reasonable Barry. Maybe the D40 is not for everyone, but to
reach a new market or selling price, trade-offs must be made. And
this one is perfectly reasonable, the D40 is a low-cost,
entry-level DSLR. Owners may not have more than 1 or 2 low-cost
zoom lenses. Don't like it? Buy a more expensive DSLR with more
features and benefits. That's why Nikon offers those, too.

Click to expand...

.....I've never owned a Nikon and may never buy one in the future. However, when a newbie asks me for advice on moving up to an affordable DSLR alternative to whatever compact p&s camera they currently own, I now feel obligated to tell them that the D40 is clearly the biggest bang for the buck. And so if pricing is a big consideration for them, it's currently the only real choice for the price conscious 'prosumer'. Kudos to Nikon and too bad for these bellyaching nit pickers who don't anyone to own anything that they themselves wouldn't want!

BTW....I use a Canon 5D and get no self-gratification out of saying nice things about Nikon.

Nikon's pulling the wool over your eyes and you are willing to make excuses for them.

jb_va2001 said:

Be reasonable Barry. Maybe the D40 is not for everyone, but to
reach a new market or selling price, trade-offs must be made. And
this one is perfectly reasonable, the D40 is a low-cost,
entry-level DSLR. Owners may not have more than 1 or 2 low-cost
zoom lenses. Don't like it? Buy a more expensive DSLR with more
features and benefits. That's why Nikon offers those, too.

Cheers,
JB

Click to expand...

Andy Silvers said:

Erik37 said:

Of course it makes sense for Nikon Inc. and their
shareholders, but it's at the expense of the
photographers who have to buy the expensive
lenses.

Click to expand...

I seriously doubt the consumer who buys a $500 camera body ($600 as
a kit) is going to go out and buy any lense that cost about $300.
Nikon has a line of inexpensive DX lenses that this camer can use,
will cover anything form 18mm to 200 and cost under $300 such as
the 18-55 mm that came with the IR converted D50 I bought and the
55mm-200mm that sells around $260 US. That is all that the target
consumer for this camera will want.

Click to expand...

Depends on why they wanted a DSLR, was it because the ad or the
sales guy said so, or was it to shoot their kids playing in low light? In the
former case, maybe they should have bought a bridge cam instead as
a more convenient solution. In the latter case they could need lenses like
50/1.8 or 85/1.8 or the 2.8 zooms offered at a fair price from the 3rd
party manufacturers. But these won't work on a D40.

And as nickleback wrote, they could get a two lens Sigma kit for
nearly the same price as a one lens Nikon kit.

Andy Silvers said:

Andy Silvers said:

Companies try these things all the time, and the only
thing that stops them doing it even more than they
do is people complaining about it, spreading the word.

Click to expand...

What wrong did Nikon do?

Click to expand...

They removed the motor. If not, I might actually have bought one.

Andy Silvers said:

The rush for these companies to produce a
sub $500 DSLR is on. Nikon basically took a D50 and stripped away
the features they felt a consumer could do with out and made a sub
$500 body and added $100 lense for a kit.

Click to expand...

But we have already seen Pentax *istDL with in-body motor + a
nice kit lens with distance markings for €399, so Nikon fail to impress.

Andy Silvers said:

Andy Silvers said:

Actually there's an example: when Nikon encrypted the
WB data in the raw files, Adobe made this known and the
public complaints had the effect that raw developers got
access to the info (or so I understood it).

Click to expand...

Electronic companies make their products use proprietary parts and
software. It's more about protecting their product line. Nikon is
here to make money for Nikon. Not Adobe.

Click to expand...

Quite true. And the buyer, if well informed (which threads like this one
helps with), might want to factor in the degree of proprietary lock-in
in the available alternatives before making his choice.

The post above which I replied to seemed to want us not to inform the
buyers about proprietary lock in.

Andy Silvers said:

Andy Silvers said:

Nikon don't want people to learn about the
limitations of the D40, it's not exactly printed on
the box and selling it (almost) entirely with kit lens
serves to not draw attention to the drastic lens
limitations.

Click to expand...

If this were the case I guess they wouldn't include a manual in
the box detailing what this camera has and doesn't have.

Click to expand...

At that point, though, the purchase is already made, isn't it?

Andy Silvers said:

Seemed
Dpreview listed these limitation in their preview of the camera, so
the information was avaible from somewhere.

Click to expand...

Yes, but I woudn't be at all surprised if the practical conseqeunces
weren't completely clear to all readers.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden

Tim in upstate NY said:

jI now feel obligated to tell them that the D40 is
clearly the biggest bang for the buck. And so if pricing is a big
consideration for them, it's currently the only real choice for the
price conscious 'prosumer'.

Click to expand...

*istDL2 kit was €399
D40 kit is now €536

Why do people think there is something groundbreaking with the
D40's price?

And someone price concious might want to buy 3rd party lenses,
cheap primes for low light or look for second hand glass.

The D40 is like a reasonably priced inkjet that can't use 3rd party inks.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden

I forgot about the inability to get a good reading on the focus when using the rear LCD - shows you how much I've been using a dSLR vs. P&S.

Excellent point about power consumption as well.

Ok, I'll go back under my rock now.

--
Mike

Erik37 wrote:
.

Erik37 said:

*istDL2 kit was €399
D40 kit is now €536

Why do people think there is something groundbreaking with the
D40's price?

And someone price concious might want to buy 3rd party lenses,
cheap primes for low light or look for second hand glass.

The D40 is like a reasonably priced inkjet that can't use 3rd party
inks.

Click to expand...

.....Make no mistake. There will be third party lenses for the D40 and soon.

.....The newcomer who wants to buy an entry level DSLR here in the US is most likely going to walk in to a Circuit City or Best Buy or maybe even a WalMart to see what's there and what the costs are. They're going to see the XTi, Alpha and soon the D40. No storefront retailer outside of some independent camera shops in small towns or the mega-retailers in the large cities like B&H have ever had the isTDL2 on its shelves. I travel some myself and have never actually seen one.....never! The new K100 and K10 Pentax models may never make it to the shelves where most of the buyers are either.