Why the Nikon D40 "doesn't deserve" your attention.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Barry Fitzgerald
  • Start date Start date
Fact is low cost users would love to find cheaper 3rd party
lenses...and ebay jobs..they do not have that option now....
The 18-55 and 55-200. I don't see how they could be any cheaper
unless Nikon just gave them away.
Nikon 18-55 and 55-200 are around $170 lenses each:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=381796&is=USA&addedTroughType=search

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=381797&is=USA&addedTroughType=search

But Sigma and Tamron have two lens kits that cost not much more
than one Nikon lens:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=423947&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

And the cost difference isn't the lens motors, as they have the
same kits at the same price for Canon EF:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=423941&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

Many camera stores advertise body + Sigma/Tamron two lens kit for
almost the same price as the official Canon/Nikon 1 lens kits.
They won't be able to do this with the D40, at least until
Sigma/Tamron update their lenses.

--
Seen in a fortune cookie:
Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed
Anyone that buys a D40, D50, ect. with Tamron or Sigma lenses is insane IMO. Tamron and Sigma have nothing comparable to the 18-55. Sigma has a lens that is cheaper and I like better than Nikon's 55-200 but it is not HSM of course and not of enough difference optically that I wouldn't still choose the Nikon over it. Even for an amateur I think the 55-200 choice is kind of insane now that the 70-300Vr is on the market.
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This space for rent.
 
Also, with the DOF at F1.4, I think
I would trust my MF more than the cam's AF.
I wouldn't, there's no split prism and the viewfinder is only
accurate to around f/4.
That's a pretty wild statement for you to make. How accurate it is depends on the user. Yes it's tunnel like and a bad choice if wide apeture work is what you need but even I can work accurately with a tunnel finder at f/2.8 with the 35mm 2.0D for instance. It depends on each individual user. Personally I think even the vf of the D200 isn't good enough to rely on for that type of work.
--
This space for rent.
 
All of the 3rd party lenses rely on the in-body AF motor
???? the Sigma 30F1.4? it AF very smoothly on the D40.
There are a couple of Sigmas. But they aren't "competition" for the cheap AF-S lenses. They are more expensive (and better). Competition would be cheaper lenses.

--
Seen in a fortune cookie:
Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed
 
I don't agree with your last statement about "most of the used
Nikon lens market". Nikon already does that by needlessly crippling
every body below the D200 so it won't meter the open hole.
Even if they did meter, they still wouldn't couple to the aperture, so you'd be in stop-down mode. And they aren't AF. For the typical D40/D50 buyer, they want meter coupling and AF. With the D50 you had the choice of any Nikon or third party AF lens made in the past 20 years. With the D40 you have the choice of a few used AF-I and AF-S Nikon lenses (most quite expensive and out of the D40 consumer ballpark) and a bunch of new cheap AF-S lenses. That is removing the used market from D40 consumers.

--
Seen in a fortune cookie:
Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed
 
Anyone that buys a D40, D50, ect. with Tamron or Sigma lenses is
insane IMO.
That doesn't change the fact that a whole bunch of SLRs are sold with 3rd party lens kits. It's an easy sales pitch. Buy this camera + 1 lens for $x, or the same camera with 2 lenses for $x + $25. What a steal!

The D40 has put an end to this, temporarily.

--
Seen in a fortune cookie:
Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed
 
Also, with the DOF at F1.4, I think
I would trust my MF more than the cam's AF.
I wouldn't, there's no split prism and the viewfinder is only
accurate to around f/4.
That's a pretty wild statement for you to make.
No, it isn't.
How accurate it is depends on the user.
Actually, it depends mostly on the screen.
Yes it's tunnel like
The tunnel has very little to do with it.
I can work accurately with a
tunnel finder at f/2.8 with the 35mm 2.0D for instance.
On what viewfinder?

Try the following on any low-to-mid-range DSLR. Mount a fast lens, set to max aperture. Now stop down one click and toggle DOF preview a few times. Repeat previous step until you notice a difference in brightness or apparent DOF in the viewfinder. Back off one click and make note of the aperture. That is the max aperture of the focusing screen.

Most low-to-mid range DSLRs I have tried this on are around f/3.5 to f/4. Great for manual focus of f/3.5-5.6 zooms, terrible for f/1.4 primes.

Of course doing this on a D40 or D50 will be a bit tricky since there is no DOF preview. I suppose you could mount an old manual aperture lens and give it a spin.

--
Seen in a fortune cookie:
Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed
 
Now with the sensor, why bother with the mirror at all? The sensor
can be electronically controlled to capture the image. I wonder if
any of the manufacturers will come out with a dSLR without a mirror
and force the user to frame with the rear LCD.
1) (D)SLR can't be without mirror. Single Reflex Camera. Take out mirror ant it won't be (D)SLR;

2) optical viewfinder is much much better quality than rear LCD. Try to focus manually on some small detail with very shallow DOF (say 50mm open at f1.4) with using rear LCD -- I bet it won't be possible. With a good optical viewfinder of (D)SLR -- there's no problem to do that.

3) It is subjective but it is more convenient for me to use OVF, also I can hold camera more steadily when I use optical viewfinder than usind rear LCD.

4) It is big power consumption when you use rear LCD for picture composition (sensor read-out and LCD).

--
Edvinas
 
For us, P&Ser, the D40 is the ultimate P&S cam. It kicks the G7's
butt, crushes the Pannies, laugh at the Fujis...
Is some respects, yes.

With kit lens at 55/5.6 and no IS/VR even allowing 3 1/2 stops higher
iso for same noise level, it will need about three times as much light
for handheld shooting as the FZ20. Just as an example.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden
 
24-85
18-55 (2 versions)
18-135
18-70
55-200

70-300 VR - this will be above €500 shipped, but I admit this one seems
pretty good value if you want a slow lens with VR. I guess we can thank
K-M, Sony and Pentax for Nikon not asking more for this lens.
Nikon has a pretty long list of AFS zooms that are inexpensive.
Did I miss any or do we have different definitions of inexpensive or
long list?

Of course there are many AF-S lenses, all the way up to €10000.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden
 
LOL, I love your colourful language sometimes, Barry!

The D40 may be a shrewd move by Nikon but just like we
have a right to criticise e.g. Sony's proprietary tricks like
MemoryStick etc. (the list could be long) this blatant
attempt to lock customers in to a limited and costly lens
selection should be exposed.

It's like a tug-of-war: the manufacturers pulling their way to
increase their profits on our behalf; for balance, we have
to pull our way by informing new buyers of the drawbacks,
to discourage these practises.

As I wrote elsewhere, selling the body as kit only is also a very
deliberate move: that way people won't stop to think about
what lens they want, with the risk of finding out the big catch
with the D40, instead they will go head on in the trap as it may
become.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden
 
The argument has been, "the people who this is marketed at will never use pin drive lenses." Sure that is a possibility but how enthusiasts, serious, amateur and pro photographers started off with a D200 and up? This will force these people who get into it and enjoy photography to get a different body just for pin drive lens AF. Seems like a plan for Nikon to make some $ with planned obsolescence.
Ist off I am not anti nikon..or anything else for that matter. This
is a nice camera..at a cheap price (not as cheap in the uk...)

No problems with the IQ...noise etc...better VF..great.

But I urge all ist time buyers to consider what you "may" want to
use lens wise. And if you want more variety, and price
ranges..avoid the D40 like the plague.

Sorry to beat the drum...but removing the in camera AF motor is
plain daft. Complete deal breaker for many. You have been warned.
Dumbed down controls etc also not welcomed. If Nikon had the sense
to slap this out at £299 instead of £399..then maybe it could be
overlooked....but sorry this isnt convincing..

Call me a sceptic, but this smells like a ploy to sell Nikon lenses..

If it doesn't bother..then fire away. Myself well I would like the
option to use 3rd party lenses..and all of them. And s/h ebay jobs.

So enjoy, but if the handcuff system approach doesn't
appeal...check out something else..there have been better 6mp cams
on the market.....
--

 
The argument has been, "the people who this is marketed at will
never use pin drive lenses." Sure that is a possibility but how
enthusiasts, serious, amateur and pro photographers started off
with a D200 and up? This will force these people who get into it
and enjoy photography to get a different body just for pin drive
lens AF. Seems like a plan for Nikon to make some $ with planned
obsolescence.
Its a bit odd to say the least. Can you imagine a D200 with no pin drive AF? And how bad that would be? I could...dead donkey. Point here is that if you have the doesnt cost sod all pin drive motor...you can use either..If it isnt there you cannot. So my question to Nikon is what is so smart about your choice?

Would it not make sense, even if Nikon wanted to just make all new lenses with an in lens motor...to have all its cameras using the pin drive..at least for a significant time..so that you can have a choice? Makes sense to me..

But then look at the SD.CF thing too...Nikon cannot seem to make their minds up there either....some are SD, some are CF...not a great choice for the multi body photographer is it..not only will you lenses not work..but you need different cards too.!

Hey I know who wins the poorly thought out turkey award this year!
--

 
--By replacing the D50 with that thing, Nikon probably saved 20% in production costs by offering such a watered-down piece of equipment.
And you are right, it ought to be $120-$150 cheaper.
-Rich
Olympus E-1 and lots of lenses
CANADIANS using UPS: Beware hidden brokerage charges!



http://www.pbase.com/andersonrm/
 
Also, with the DOF at F1.4, I think
I would trust my MF more than the cam's AF.
I wouldn't, there's no split prism and the viewfinder is only
accurate to around f/4.
That's a pretty wild statement for you to make.
No, it isn't.
Yes it is.
How accurate it is depends on the user.
Actually, it depends mostly on the screen.
It depends on much more than that. Even with a better screen or with an old style screen the viewfinders are marginal at best. Even with a standard matte the F100 viewfinder is better than that of the D40, D50, D70, D80, D100, D200.
Yes it's tunnel like
The tunnel has very little to do with it.
It is small making it hard to tell when things pop into focus. Add to that the fact that the in focus dot has alot of slack from focusing coming from the infinity side and vice versa with no arrows for assistance (such as the F100 or D2X).
I can work accurately with a
tunnel finder at f/2.8 with the 35mm 2.0D for instance.
On what viewfinder?
I've done that with the D100, D70, and D200 quite a bit. I can work at f/1.4 with a 35mm or 50mm but my speed slows down as does my keeper rate slightly. Keep in mind I also have a selection of f/1.2 to f/.75 macro lenses I can also work with on the same bodies. On those I must bracket focus though.
Try the following on any low-to-mid-range DSLR. Mount a fast lens,
set to max aperture. Now stop down one click and toggle DOF
preview a few times. Repeat previous step until you notice a
difference in brightness or apparent DOF in the viewfinder. Back
off one click and make note of the aperture. That is the max
aperture of the focusing screen.
That's interesting but has nothing to do with what apeture I can work at with said DSLR's.
Most low-to-mid range DSLRs I have tried this on are around f/3.5
to f/4. Great for manual focus of f/3.5-5.6 zooms, terrible for
f/1.4 primes.
It is an issue with you. No offense, some folks can and some can't. You aren't paying attention in these forums if you haven't seen the evidence of those that can or spending too much time in Open Talk.
Of course doing this on a D40 or D50 will be a bit tricky since
there is no DOF preview. I suppose you could mount an old manual
aperture lens and give it a spin.
I don't use DOF preview on any DSLR. For my own use it's a useless feature. I've always considered it a feature for amateurs or those learning.
--
Seen in a fortune cookie:
Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed
--
This space for rent.
 
70-300 VR - this will be above €500 shipped, but I admit this one
seems
pretty good value if you want a slow lens with VR. I guess we can
thank
K-M, Sony and Pentax for Nikon not asking more for this lens.
Nikon has a pretty long list of AFS zooms that are inexpensive.
Did I miss any or do we have different definitions of inexpensive or
long list?

Of course there are many AF-S lenses, all the way up to €10000.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden
IMO anything below $1000US with decent optics still is inexpensive. I think for most folks even 4-500US is still pretty inexpensive. It's not like they are buying new optics every few weeks.
--
This space for rent.
 
Hmm despite the fact all the top end cameras have it?

No use to you maybe...sure I don't use it a lot..but I do use it, and one reason I didn't get a D50 and got a KM5D...one reason that is..

You can live without it sure..but it is handy...esp if you do a lot of macro work etc. I would't class it as a newbie thing..not at all...

Let's put it like this...ask me what I would rather have..DOF preview of D40 "wallpaper" option in the camera...eeerrrr! lol

 
I don't agree with your last statement about "most of the used
Nikon lens market". Nikon already does that by needlessly crippling
every body below the D200 so it won't meter the open hole.
Even if they did meter, they still wouldn't couple to the aperture,
so you'd be in stop-down mode. And they aren't AF. For the
You could still use them as the camera would close the apeture when the shutter is released. Set the apeture, (make sure easy exposure comp is set), dial down a full stop for each stop you are at below maximum on your apeture setting, then take your image. Not to mention those who like to experiment and build their own lenses. I know the average user could care less but why cripple the bodies this way? It's not like Canon, Pentax, or Oly does.
typical D40/D50 buyer, they want meter coupling and AF. With the
D50 you had the choice of any Nikon or third party AF lens made in
the past 20 years. With the D40 you have the choice of a few used
AF-I and AF-S Nikon lenses (most quite expensive and out of the D40
consumer ballpark) and a bunch of new cheap AF-S lenses. That is
removing the used market from D40 consumers.
I'm agreeing with you on that point.
--
Seen in a fortune cookie:
Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed
--
This space for rent.
 
Hmm despite the fact all the top end cameras have it?

No use to you maybe...sure I don't use it a lot..but I do use it,
and one reason I didn't get a D50 and got a KM5D...one reason that
is..

You can live without it sure..but it is handy...esp if you do a lot
of macro work etc. I would't class it as a newbie thing..not at
all...

Let's put it like this...ask me what I would rather have..DOF
preview of D40 "wallpaper" option in the camera...eeerrrr! lol

Neither. A better viewfinder with a real rangefinder. Metering of the open hole like Pentax, Canon, and Oly allow. That's it.
--
This space for rent.
 
LOL, I love your colourful language sometimes, Barry!

The D40 may be a shrewd move by Nikon but just like we
have a right to criticise e.g. Sony's proprietary tricks like
MemoryStick etc. (the list could be long) this blatant
attempt to lock customers in to a limited and costly lens
selection should be exposed.

It's like a tug-of-war: the manufacturers pulling their way to
increase their profits on our behalf; for balance, we have
to pull our way by informing new buyers of the drawbacks,
to discourage these practises.

As I wrote elsewhere, selling the body as kit only is also a very
deliberate move: that way people won't stop to think about
what lens they want, with the risk of finding out the big catch
with the D40, instead they will go head on in the trap as it may
become.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden
Sigma4less has it as a body only. I wonder if every retailer will eventually. For me it would make more sense as I've already got more 18-55 kit lenses than I need.
--
This space for rent.
 
The "prosumer" market should be about ready to burst open.

As companies are proving by their somewhat uncoordinated but enthusiastic attempts to crack it, the desire is there. The field is virtually untapped and promises to be profitable.

Two approaches so far - the entry-level DSLRs, and then there are the Fuji, Panasonic, Sony, Canon and Kodak superzoom cameras. They have size on their side, a huge advantage, over the DSLRs. They have great, versatile lenses (some better than others, of course). They were born trying to be simple to use, and have gotten better at it, while the DSLR was born complicated, heavy, cumbersome, expensive.

But none of the superzooms has made the major breakthrough, a sensor that would allow good low-light performance. Fuji probably has done the best here, but it is not DSLR-like.

I think the potential market is so promising that the companies will continue to research, and someone will come up with a great sensor for these cameras.

If - when - that happens, the people with DSLRs are going to do a doubletake. The ones with professional demand - no doubt they'll stay with the DSLR. The rest of us won't miss carrying a big bag.

So when threads like this speak of the DSLR trend and consumers being potentially angry after two years and wanting to "move up" - well, in two years maybe most DSLR users will want to "move down." I know I would if I could carry around a convenient superzoon-sized camera and get as good a bunch of photos as I'm getting now with my clunky DSLR.

I don't love my DSLR camera - I love the photos it takes.

Just my opinion.
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I appreciate this forum.
Say Hey
 

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