Fullscreen HDVR Panotest -

Gunnar Eriksson · Nov 27, 2006

Hi folks -

My partner in our company and I have developed a version of fullscreen panorama which is about the highest Java-based resolution in the world, we download full 360-panos of 12288x4500 pixels, yes thats right - 55.2 megapixel-images...

I would be very happy if you would take a test-tour of it and please also let me know the following:

1 - What is your computer -
2 - how many megs o ram and
3 - what kind of graphics board / videocard that you have ?

4 - What kind of internetaccess do you have - from 28-modem and upwards

and also -
5 - appx how long time it takes you to get a full download of the panos -

This should work perfect with explorer, firefox - also actually the Mac-safari, as long as the java is NOT version 1.4.2 which is the only javaversion that has ever been bad for this kind of thing.
If you have java 1.4.2 please upgrade to a later version at http://www.java.com

The link below will provide a start of the panoplayer that will be the present size of your browser - we have done it completly scalable to what the present state is - but you should also be able to go full screen by hitting the space-bar, and back again by rehitting the same spacebar.

(man that sounds like fun, "hey, c-mon guys, let go down the spacebar ´n get us an intergalactic gurgleburner.." )

We will be greatful for all that makes time to gives us a hand here - panos are from all over Sweden.

On a few there is no preview-image so the screen SHOULD go GREEN for a short while, but the pano will still load...should still do so..so hold on, the green screen is NOT a "blue-screen-of-death".

The others have a very fast downloading preview-pano that will be visible when the big one downloads and displays.

You can notice it as the image gets sharper from the slightly blurred version of the preview.

and should you consider something about the imagequality, the jpegging has been done with ACDSEE which in our eyes did a phenomenal job of reducing weight and not messing up the image all to bad...

is this ok with you?

There is no deadline so take your time, but we are very interested in knowing the above of your viewingsituation, RAM, graphicsboard and connection speed.

Particulary interesting is of course should the browser hang - then there is vital to know the facts about your computer and also please what pano you were tryin to view..

Thank on forehand -

Gunnar

http://www.panograf.net/hdvr

OR - cut and paste in your browers url-field manually...

--
Holy Cows makes the Best Hamburgers !

MuMinded · Nov 27, 2006

Hi Gunner... See my answers below.

Gunnar Eriksson said:
1 - What is your computer -

Dell Precision 380 Pentium 4 2.4GH

Gunnar Eriksson said:
2 - how many megs o ram and

2mb

Gunnar Eriksson said:
3 - what kind of graphics board / videocard that you have ?

nvidea Quadro FX 540>

Gunnar Eriksson said:
4 - What kind of internetaccess do you have - from 28-modem and
upwards

DSL.. about 750mb/sec upload and 1.3mb/sec download

Gunnar Eriksson said:
and also -
5 - appx how long time it takes you to get a full download of the
panos -

the ice scene took me 25 seconds to download.

Very neat site...thanks for sharing and good luck!

Kerry

Steve Krivian · Nov 27, 2006

Very Nice images and software.

1 - What is your computer -
Dell 8200 with 2.53 gig processor
2 - how many megs o ram and
1 gig
3 - what kind of graphics board / videocard that you have ?
ATI Radeon X700
4 - What kind of internetaccess do you have -
Cable Modem 768 Down, 128k up
5 - appx how long time it takes you to get a full download of the panos -
Initial download 20 sec. each subsequent image view about 9 sec.

Let us know in the future about your software!

Steve

MatthewRogers · Nov 27, 2006

Gunnar Eriksson said:
Hi folks -

My partner in our company and I have developed a version of
fullscreen panorama which is about the highest Java-based
resolution in the world, we download full 360-panos of 12288x4500
pixels, yes thats right - 55.2 megapixel-images...

Not sure what you're talking about but what have you developed ? The java player is developed by Immersion and displaying a 55.2 megapixel images is nothing new. I've produced 2-3 gig-pixel panos using a Hasselblad H2/P45, true they can't be viewed interactively on the web but nothing about what you've posted is unique. Even my S3/Nikkor 60mm panos are around 7-800 megpaixels.

The image you posted shows massive banding and JPEG compression artifacts in the sky making the image in my opinion pretty much useless, certainly not an image I'd charge a client for. And yes, I did wait for the final pano to download. Also the sharpness in some of the shots are well, aren't sharp at all. To me this pano looks like it was taken using a sigma fisheye lens.

Displaying panoramas in fullscreen isn't just about ultimate resolution but optimizing the resolution for maximum display size using the correct pixel/degree ratio. At 1920 x 1200 you don't need any more resolution than 8,000 x 4,000 pixels, anything above that really is just wasting bandwidth.

I'm really surprised that you tested the pano on a Mac after telling me that you'd never buy my product because I use a Mac

Well if that's the quality of work you output using a PC then maybe it's time you seriously considered switching.

And why on earth are you calling the panos HDVR, what because they can be viewed on a 1920 x 1200 display ? Can't really see the conenction

--
Matthew Rogers
[email protected]

Osku · Nov 27, 2006

Gunnar Eriksson said:
I would be very happy if you would take a test-tour of it and
please also let me know the following:

1 - What is your computer -

P4 3,5 GHz HT

Gunnar Eriksson said:
2 - how many megs o ram and

4 GB

Gunnar Eriksson said:
3 - what kind of graphics board / videocard that you have ?

Sapphire X1600XT 256MB GDDR3, last months official ATI drivers (WinXP SP2 with all official upgrades)

Gunnar Eriksson said:
4 - What kind of internetaccess do you have - from 28-modem and
upwards

1M DSL (cable)

Gunnar Eriksson said:
and also -
5 - appx how long time it takes you to get a full download of the
panos -

35-70 sec, 35-40 sec typical but the second in the list took 70 sec.

Gunnar Eriksson said:
This should work perfect with explorer, firefox - also actually the
Mac-safari, as long as the java is NOT version 1.4.2 which is the
only javaversion that has ever been bad for this kind of thing.
If you have java 1.4.2 please upgrade to a later version at
http://www.java.com

Browser was IE 7.0 since my Firefox 2.0 does not have Java working. Java version is the latest 5.0...9 (Sun).

Gunnar Eriksson said:
The link below will provide a start of the panoplayer that will be
the present size of your browser - we have done it completly
scalable to what the present state is - but you should also be able
to go full screen by hitting the space-bar, and back again by
rehitting the same spacebar.
(man that sounds like fun, "hey, c-mon guys, let go down the
spacebar ´n get us an intergalactic gurgleburner.." )

Does not work with "full screen setting" (maximize), looks rather lame with a 21" 2048x1536 monitor in a about A5 size. If the window is not full screen but manually scaled to about full screen it scales ok. Mouse scroll works fine for zoom, but mouse roll for left or right does not work (Logitech Mobile dual laser mouse VF400). With a 3 MPixel screen resolution you can not zoom much (or at all) before it looks rather low res.

IMHO I would prefer better resolution and detail and slower download if you had some content that would be somehow essential for me to see.

Best Regards,

--
Osku

Gunnar Eriksson · Nov 27, 2006

Matthew :
Quote:

Not sure what you're talking about but what have you developed ? The java player is developed by Immersion
------------------------

yes, and we have not claimed to have developed it - we are testing a lot of scripting inside it and outside it which is totally custom.
-----------------------

and displaying a 55.2 megapixel images is nothing new. I've produced 2-3 gig-pixel panos using a Hasselblad H2/P45, true they can't be viewed interactively on the web
-----------------------------------------------
oh - id love to see them. Where can I do that?
Myself has only done a 1.15 gigabyte pano - wher are yours?
please?

----------------------------------------------------

but nothing about what you've posted is unique. Even my S3/Nikkor 60mm panos are around 7-800 megpaixels.

----------------------------

The image you posted shows massive banding and JPEG compression artifacts in the sky making the image in my opinion pretty much useless, certainly not an image I'd charge a client for. And yes, I did wait for the final pano to download. Also the sharpness in some of the shots are well, aren't sharp at all. To me this pano looks like it was taken using a sigma fisheye lens.

well , they are not but thats another story.
We are not testing either imagecontent nor quality - we are testing scripting.

Displaying panoramas in fullscreen isn't just about ultimate resolution but optimizing the resolution for maximum display size using the correct pixel/degree ratio. At 1920 x 1200 you don't need any more resolution than 8,000 x 4,000 pixels, anything above that really is just wasting bandwidth.
-----------
thatd be an opinion that will stand for you.
What anyone needs must be up to the individual to decide and not
have dictated.

-----------------

I'm really surprised that you tested the pano on a Mac after telling me that you'd never buy my product because I use a Mac

Well if that's the quality of work you output using a PC then maybe it's time you seriously considered switching.

-------------------
The above sentence I cannot relate to at all...

have I ever communicated with you before and having been discussing buyin a product from you because U use a mac?
What product would that have been may I ask?
-----------------------------

And why on earth are you calling the panos HDVR, what because they can be viewed on a 1920 x 1200 display ? Can't really see the conenction

---------------------------------

perhaps as little then as I can see any connection to myself on the sentence before this...

however - others may need some kind of easy-understandable comparison who are not involved with either photography nor pixels or comuters and have only a reference to HDTV as far as the concept of resolutions goes and vouldnt really care less about what goes on inside this little shielded world of panomaking...

You are downright 100 % negative about this - who are you and what have I done to you?
Did I refuse to buy a product of yours.... ????

aaahhhhh... I remember.

You are the guy that wanted to make me feel inferior to you by claiming that anyone who does not have a macintosh is a second rate person and really should shut up at any instances because YOU are the sole God of the planet and knows ALL..
Nice stupid thing to do.

Bring on a Computerwar that I did not want, and will not tolerate to particpate in.
Losing a potential customer for such little control...

I dont care how much hybris you have been involved in, yuo insulted me, my my work, my thoughts and just about everything that I said because I claim my liberty to use whatever computer I want and on top of that, like my choice.

Well, as far as I remember, your product was the Presicion360 panobracket and im certain that is is a very capable and wellbuilt and good product, otherwise I wouldnt have contacted you in the first place if I hadnt been interested.

But you are a poor salesman if you havent learned not to bring your personal opinions about whatever to silence in a situation like that, instead you persisted in making me fell low, unknowing and spitting at all I have done in my life in this area -
Thats a GOOD way of loosing a client.
Forever.

Nothing personal Mark,
just got reaklly really sick of your entire attitude.

Show me them 2-3 gigapixelpanos please - or are you just bragging in another attempt to bring me down?
You show me and ill take you seroius.

Then - depending on your attitude, I might buy a bracket from you...

but you did not treat me with any respect so now that is in the open, as your above remark demanded.
Fine.
You know where to find me.

g
--
Matthew Rogers
[email protected]

--
Holy Cows makes the Best Hamburgers !

Gunnar Eriksson · Nov 27, 2006

Matt - I missed you bi-sentence " true , but they cannot be viewed interactivley on the web.."

well then - fine , dont bring them in to the discussion.
Images that big is not hard to do.

The biggest so far is 8,6 gigapixel.
Some fantastic churchpainting in Italy.

We are staying with interactive panos.
Thats all.

--
Holy Cows makes the Best Hamburgers !

claypaws · Nov 27, 2006

Gunnar, that is fun. Were the pics taken on an S2?

I've not looked at all the images but can give you information for a few of them. I shall probably look at the rest of them too.

Computer - I built it myself! Based on an Asus P4P800E deluxe motherboard
Pentium 4 Prescott hyperthreading, 3GHz.
1GB RAM
Asus 9600XT-TVD graphics card

Connection is ADSL at variable speed that I can select from 500Kb/s to 2Mb/s. (Those are kilobits, not kiloBytes)

I first tried 500Kb/s:

Application took 45s to load.
Mellanstroem, 1m33s
Vitberget 43s

Then I increased my speed to 2Mb/s (at a massive cost to me of 5 pence for an hour!)

Application took 26s to load.
Mellanstroem, 58s
Vitberget 26s
Pantze 33s
Laisaliden 18s

I have found very few servers that can serve up at 2Mb/s so I usually expect to get an increase in speed when I go from 500Kb/s to 2Mb/s but not a 4x increase in speed. To fill 2Mb/s, I have to be downloading from at least 3 different servers simultaneously.

Your image quality is acceptable but not stellar for this type of viewing.

The banding in the sky is distracting.

Mellanstroem has a huge dust bunny in the sky above the boat.

Pantze has a very huge dust bunny and a fibre or hair in the sky above the boat. Pantze also has badly burned out white clouds in the sky. I don't think the S3 would produce burnout as bad as that.

When the images are loading, I had to click the mouse on the image to stop it rotating. Watching it load and rotate at the same time made me feel sick! It would be better to default to static while loading. I also preferred the loading method where it started with a green screen and then gradually filled the screen at full quality. I do not like the versions that load a crude image and gradually increase its quality. Those make me feel sick too! (I think they call those progressive jpegs but I don't like them anyway)

The on screen arrows make the images rotate too fast.

I preferred to use the arrow keys on the keyboard. Repeated taps on the keys make the image rotate in discrete small steps. I find that more comfortable to view.

The scenery is gorgeous. I think I would prefer to see it in landcape format non-rotating shots, preferably in a non-panoramic aspect ratio.

Personally, I do not like the panoramic aspect ratio for still landscape images. I prefer something close to 3:2 as a general rule unless there is an obvious reason for a much more extreme ratio, such as when showing a complete building, for example.
--
******************************************************
I have a home on pbase
http://www.pbase.com/claypaws/
If you have the time to look
******************************************************

Gunnar Eriksson · Nov 27, 2006

Osku -
thanks for testing and reporting.
It all helps.

As I posted, it opens in whatever size your browser is at present, but you can bring it to fullscreen by slapping your spacebar - then there will be no browser panels or anything visible.
Back to the size of what the browser had before you hit spacebar, hit it again.

Or, use the four-arrow-icon up top left, right side of "menu"
--
Holy Cows makes the Best Hamburgers !

Gunnar Eriksson · Nov 27, 2006

HI Calypaws -

claypaws said:
Gunnar, that is fun. Were the pics taken on an S2?

yea..

claypaws said:
I've not looked at all the images but can give you information for
a few of them. I shall probably look at the rest of them too.

ok

claypaws said:
Computer - I built it myself! Based on an Asus P4P800E deluxe
motherboard
Pentium 4 Prescott hyperthreading, 3GHz.
1GB RAM
Asus 9600XT-TVD graphics card

Connection is ADSL at variable speed that I can select from 500Kb/s
to 2Mb/s. (Those are kilobits, not kiloBytes)

I first tried 500Kb/s:

Application took 45s to load.
Mellanstroem, 1m33s
Vitberget 43s

Then I increased my speed to 2Mb/s (at a massive cost to me of 5
pence for an hour!)

Application took 26s to load.
Mellanstroem, 58s
Vitberget 26s
Pantze 33s
Laisaliden 18s

I have found very few servers that can serve up at 2Mb/s so I
usually expect to get an increase in speed when I go from 500Kb/s
to 2Mb/s but not a 4x increase in speed. To fill 2Mb/s, I have to
be downloading from at least 3 different servers simultaneously.

Your image quality is acceptable but not stellar for this type of
viewing.

well, this is not an imagequalitytest, its a scriptingtest, we know were we are on that...

claypaws said:
When the images are loading, I had to click the mouse on the image
to stop it rotating. Watching it load and rotate at the same time
made me feel sick! It would be better to default to static while
loading. I also preferred the loading method where it started with
a green screen and then gradually filled the screen at full
quality. I do not like the versions that load a crude image and
gradually increase its quality. Those make me feel sick too! (I
think they call those progressive jpegs but I don't like them
anyway)

ok but this is not progressive, its a very small previewimage just to show that sometjing IS happening - we have a feeling that an entire green screen might scare people like the Bue-screen-of-death-thing...
but its good you bring it up.
All things like that are good for us to ponder on.

claypaws said:
The on screen arrows make the images rotate too fast.

You know that you steer this type of panoramasdisplays with your own mouse dont you?

Place the mousecursor in the image, hold down the left mousebutton and drag in any direction and any speed you want... or stop it.... ??

claypaws said:
I preferred to use the arrow keys on the keyboard. Repeated taps on
the keys make the image rotate in discrete small steps. I find that
more comfortable to view.

you may choose the best way that suits your experience.. thats why there are more than one way of steering this...

claypaws said:
The scenery is gorgeous. I think I would prefer to see it in
landcape format non-rotating shots, preferably in a non-panoramic
aspect ratio.

Personally, I do not like the panoramic aspect ratio for still
landscape images. I prefer something close to 3:2 as a general rule
unless there is an obvious reason for a much more extreme ratio,
such as when showing a complete building, for example.

well, a complete building or a complete environment outdoors, its a way of describing an atmosphere really, I guess, and I think there is a place for interactivity that can enhance som aspects of it.

Thanks pal.

--

claypaws said:
******************************************************
I have a home on pbase
http://www.pbase.com/claypaws/
If you have the time to look
******************************************************

--
Holy Cows makes the Best Hamburgers !

claypaws · Nov 27, 2006

Gunnar Eriksson said:
Gunnar Eriksson said:

Your image quality is acceptable but not stellar for this type of
viewing.

Click to expand...

well, this is not an imagequalitytest, its a scriptingtest, we know
were we are on that...

The only reason I commented on IQ was because you said in your original post:

"and should you consider something about the imagequality, the jpegging has been done with ACDSEE which in our eyes did a phenomenal job of reducing weight and not messing up the image all to bad..."

BTW, I use ACDSee too and I think it does a superb job of image resizing.

Gunnar Eriksson said:
ok but this is not progressive, its a very small previewimage just
to show that sometjing IS happening - we have a feeling that an
entire green screen might scare people like the
Bue-screen-of-death-thing...
but its good you bring it up.
All things like that are good for us to ponder on.

I agree the green screen could scare people.

Gunnar Eriksson said:
Gunnar Eriksson said:

The on screen arrows make the images rotate too fast.

Click to expand...

You know that you steer this type of panoramasdisplays with your
own mouse dont you?

Place the mousecursor in the image, hold down the left mousebutton
and drag in any direction and any speed you want... or stop it....
??

Yes, I should have said that I did try that. But the rotation is way too fast even with mouse drag.

Gunnar Eriksson said:
Gunnar Eriksson said:

I preferred to use the arrow keys on the keyboard. Repeated taps on
the keys make the image rotate in discrete small steps. I find that
more comfortable to view.

Click to expand...

you may choose the best way that suits your experience.. thats why
there are more than one way of steering this...

Fair enough. I was only being hyper-critical because you asked for criticism. I should also have said that the whole effect IS pretty impressive.

Gunnar Eriksson said:
well, a complete building or a complete environment outdoors, its a
way of describing an atmosphere really, I guess, and I think there
is a place for interactivity that can enhance som aspects of it.

I agree. And interactivity is popular.

--
******************************************************
I have a home on pbase
http://www.pbase.com/claypaws/
If you have the time to look
******************************************************

Osku · Nov 28, 2006

Gunnar Eriksson said:
Osku -
thanks for testing and reporting.
It all helps.

As I posted, it opens in whatever size your browser is at present,
but you can bring it to fullscreen by slapping your spacebar - then
there will be no browser panels or anything visible.

The space bar did nothing in my computer but blink the screen once, nothing else. Nothing scaled into anything. I tried the spacebar about half a dozen times.

Gunnar Eriksson said:
Back to the size of what the browser had before you hit spacebar,
hit it again.

Or, use the four-arrow-icon up top left, right side of "menu"
--
Holy Cows makes the Best Hamburgers !

--
Osku

Osku · Nov 28, 2006

claypaws said:
Yes, I should have said that I did try that. But the rotation is
way too fast even with mouse drag.

Agree here.

Try making it 1/3 slower (not less responsive) at first, both the arrows and the mouse. Also, do not use a scroll option when the picture is downloading, it seemed to stop the download or make it slower.

--
Osku

huyzer · Nov 28, 2006

Hello,

Gunnar Eriksson said:
1 - What is your computer

Some home-brewed generic PC with:
Processor: x86 Family 15 Model 2 Stepping 4 GenuineIntel ~~2010 Mhz~~

Gunnar Eriksson said:
2 - how many megs o ram

1,024.00 MB (1 GB)

Gunnar Eriksson said:
3 - what kind of graphics board / videocard that you have ?

Radeon 9000

Gunnar Eriksson said:
4 - What kind of internetaccess do you have

San Diego, CA Road Runner

Gunnar Eriksson said:
5 - appx how long time it takes you to get a full download of the panos -
http://www.panograf.net/hdvr

When I clicked on the link above, it took 1 minute. After that, I tested out all the images. Downloaded to full, high-detailed (not preview) resolution, it ranged from 9 secs - 15 seconds each.

Great technology by the way. I just wish there were no circles in the 360s (straight up, and straight down).

Take care.

Sincerely,
Huy (sounds like "we")

Gunnar Eriksson · Nov 28, 2006

Osku - Claypaw -

the fullscreen denial CAN depend on how much you have in your tempfiles - if you try emptying them and go at it again it should work - that is almost always the case... otherwise it will be interesting, really interesting

Thanks Huy.

--
Holy Cows makes the Best Hamburgers !

William Carson · Nov 28, 2006

Guess I'm the only one using a mac around here. G5 dual 2Ghz with 2GB Ram using the original GeForce FX 5200 card and DSL connection using Camino web browser. Took 10 to 12 secs to fully load although display started in around 8 secs. Pretty cool. Your in Norway or someplace far north?
Will

Gunnar Eriksson · Nov 28, 2006

Hi - no your are certainly not the only one with a mac here...
glad it worked.

Other macs that have tried flunked because of old and bad java, yours seems uptodate.

We are from Sweden, that is the eastern half of the Scandinavian peninsula that we share with Norway.
Also a great country with magnificent nature.

Thanks for tryin out and reporting.

--
Holy Cows makes the Best Hamburgers !

Cyrus kamak · Nov 28, 2006

Gunnar Eriksson said:
Hi folks -

Gunnar Eriksson said:
1 - What is your computer -

Custom 2.8 Gig dual core

Gunnar Eriksson said:
2 - how many megs o ram and

4 Gigs

Gunnar Eriksson said:
3 - what kind of graphics board / videocard that you have ?

256Meg DDR 2

Gunnar Eriksson said:
4 - What kind of internetaccess do you have - from 28-modem and
upwards

Concast cable

Gunnar Eriksson said:
and also -
5 - appx how long time it takes you to get a full download of the
panos -

10 secs.
Beautiful job, enjoyed yor wrke

claypaws · Nov 28, 2006

My temp files were empty. I empty my Firefox browser cache at astonishingly regular intervals, usually several times per browsing session. I did so before I visited your site and before and after I changed my ADSL speed so as to force reloads. BTW, I also empty my IE cache even though I do not use IE.
--
******************************************************
I have a home on pbase
http://www.pbase.com/claypaws/
If you have the time to look
******************************************************

Robert Strom · Nov 29, 2006

Gunnar Eriksson said:
1 - What is your computer -

PC- Single processor Athlon 3.5 gig

Gunnar Eriksson said:
2 - how many megs o ram and

2 gigs

Gunnar Eriksson said:
3 - what kind of graphics board / videocard that you have ?

Older 128 meg Nvideo 5300

Gunnar Eriksson said:
4 - What kind of internetaccess do you have - from 28-modem and
upwards

300mb cable modem (very fast d-loads)

Gunnar Eriksson said:
and also -
5 - appx how long time it takes you to get a full download of the
panos -

About 8 seconds. I only saw the Ice hotel pano. If there were others on the page I did not scroll down to see them. But it loaded very fast and was very smooth in panning and tilting. There was quite a bit of compression banding in the sky, but all other details looked sharp and clear.

OT: I saw a nice documentary on the building of the Ice hotel. Quite a feat to accomplish in 30 days(?).

Robert

Gunnar Eriksson said:
--

http://www.streamlinestudio.com

Fullscreen HDVR Panotest -

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