E3 price range? $1000, $2000 or more?

I've been known to be wrong on occasion. But not since 1997.

--
Cheers,

Jim Pilcher
Colorado, USA

I don't make stupid mistakes. My mistakes are always very clever.
 
.....if you canot afford what the high end will cost you should
stay with the mid or low end bodies.

That is not meant to be a dirogetory remark.

If you wait until the price has dropped the technology will have
passed you by.
Technology has past most of my cameras by, but I can still turn out some fantastic pictures with that old tecnology. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I am much more concerned about image quality than whistles and bells. I shot my first wedding in the early 1970's so I've been in and out of equipment for a pretty long hual. The last 35mm working camera I sold was my most used and favorite Nikon F2AS. Nothing automatic with that camera except me. It was like a glove and we both knew what each other was doing at all times, if a mistake was made it wasn't because the camera guessed wrong, it was because I guessed wrong. The only three 35mm cameras I own right now are a Rollei 35T, Leica IIIa and a Leica SL(for the lenses I still use on that and the Oly E1) and there are no whistles or bells on any of those cameras, but the image quality is nothing short of superb. I don't need 49 focus points 12 frames per second and all the other garbage, but there are a few people that do and many mnore that just want it just to say they have it. I guess that's what the camera makers look at, not what you need, but what you want. If the camera manufactures could get me a camera like the E1 with the image quality of a 4x5 camera I would not care how much tecnology passed me by. I would be in seventh heaven with a camera like that and would need nothing more.
 
. . . to a test of the Pentax rendition.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=19647176

Why would you not want this?

--
'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'
Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881)
Because Olympus doesn't offer it, Olympus owners feel compelled to downplay the importance of IS. Just as on the Canon forum, you will find Canon owners dismissing in-body IS. Nobody could ever want IS to go with their large aperture primes, right, but are anxious to pay through the nose to get it on their zooms?

It is defensiveness and fear, pure and simple.

Somewhat justified in Olympus' case since they are in a difficult position in the market, pathetic in the case of Canon, since they are the market leaders and use their position to milk their customers on high-margin glass, by withholding the low cost general solution.
 
It would have to be faster than bluetooth to stream video.
--
'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'
Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881)
 
Correction, if it has live view. If it is just stills, for studio work, then it could be bluetooth. I am starting to suspect that this could be the case, because this is the second time I have seen milsuper hinting at wireless tech in the new bodies.

I just hope it is implemented right, and isn't some gimmick.

--
'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'
Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881)
 
1. It works better in lenses than on bodies

2. One less thing to be fixed in a camera. If it is in the lens and goes bad you send the lens in and keep shooting. If it is in the camera and goes bad you send the camera in and quit shooting
--

When you see a beautiful collection of photons, capture them. You will never see them again.
 
1. It works better in lenses than on bodies
2. One less thing to be fixed in a camera. If it is in the lens
and goes bad you send the lens in and keep shooting. If it is in
the camera and goes bad you send the camera in and quit shooting
--
When you see a beautiful collection of photons, capture them. You
will never see them again.
Let me start off with saying that there is no inherent conflict between in-body, and in-lens IS. If you had access to a lens where in-lens IS would work well, say a 500mm tele, you could always simply turn off the in-body IS.
  1. 1
Says Canon. Small surprise. Really, there seems to be little difference in the effectiveness of the respective approaches. There is a case to be made for in-lens IS for very long teles, however that only means that if you had a 500mm tele with in-lens IS, you would shut off the in-body version. For shorter focal length, I've yet to see that there are any significant differences. In fact, I'd say that moving the sensor should ultimately be more effective. At this point in time, effectiveness would seem to depend more on the implementation than principle.
  1. 2
For the additional cost of a single IS lens from Canon, you could buy one to several EOS 400 backup bodies. #2 is a strange argument, particularly since in this digital age, bodies are more likely to be replaced than lenses.

I'd add the benefits of having a stabilized finder image from in-lens IS, and the fact that your lens image circle goes from being a negligeable issue to being a complete non-issue.

Of course I could alse counter with arguments pro in-body IS.
  1. 1
Works for all lenses, (adding huge value to large aperture lenses in particular as there are no in-lens IS alternatives available at all ).
  1. 2
Is inexpensive - Pentax charges a $100 premium for their K100D over its non-IS sibling, but that is still taking advantage of customer demand. But even so, $100 to gain IS on all your lenses is a deal I believe just about any Canon/Nikon/Olympus owner would happily buy into.
  1. 3
In-lens IS depends on having a mobile lens group in the optical path, which inherently is disadvantageous in terms of optical performance even assuming that there are no problems with tolerances and wear (which of course there is). Even if disabled, the lens group and its associated surfaces stay in the optical path. From an optical point of view, getting rid of the mobile lensgroup is a benefit.
  1. 4
In-body IS can be codesigned to help with anti-dust features.

My personal feeling is that in-body IS should be built into all digital SLRs, regardless of make. It was not possible during the film era, but it would seem a no-brainer today. Just do it.

For a company like Olympus that is always going to be at a disadvantage in terms of pixel density for a given sensor resolution, I'd say having in-body IS is almost mandatory, particularly given their large line-up of high-quality non-IS glass.
 
Well stated.

I hate to disagree, but not wanting IS in body because it might break is a slippery slope which could reduce us back to film. What if our sensors break? Wait, do we really need a shutter, it could break?

I know it is extreme, but in body IS is almost all benefits. Plus, you can always turn it off if you are afraid it will break.

--
'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'
Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881)
 
I am patiently waiting for the E3 for its potentially
unique combination of preview
Leave that out!
No, leave that in.
Ok, but not essential.
good viewfinder, etc.
How should that work with the live TV on the back?
Very well. Think Mode B on 330
However, seeing the high price that Olympus is asking for the E330
and the E400, when compared to other less innovative manufacturers,
The E400 is not more expensive than the Nikon D80.
Should one expect the E3 to be closer to $2000 than $1000? Olympus
has to spread its R&D over a smaller market.
Make it 2500
I'm guessing the same. (Unless there will be 2 cameras: $3000 'flag-ship' camera, and E-1 replacement for $1600.

...
--
http://www.4-3system.com
http://jonr.light.is
 
I now have heard this from 2 sources... I now consider it quite possible that the E-X will have wireless screen... ;)
There's now a zigview that you use away from the camera.. you plug
the cable into the camera and you have a screen as far away as the
cable reaches!

That's gotta be something Olympus is playing with?

I think 'great.. give me more tools I can use or turn off'
What makes you think you'll need a cable?
Imagine one without tether.....
--
http://www.4-3system.com
http://jonr.light.is
 
I am patiently waiting for the E3 for its potentially unique
combination of preview, sealed body, anti-shake, anti-dust, good
viewfinder, etc.

Should one expect the E3 to be closer to $2000 than $1000? Olympus
has to spread its R&D over a smaller market.
I would expect that with the other E cameras out there filling in different needs that Olympus will try and do a good job on the E3. Why would they release a camera that doesn't focus well for the wedding folks and the actions folks? Why would they release a camera that is not snappy with a good size buffer and excellent writing speeds?

I expect if they do it well that the camera will be around $3500. I also would be suprised to see much more than a 9 megapixel camera. If it is more than 9 megapixel, then the high ISO settings will be there for convienience but not for serious photography. My guess is the current Leica sensor is the sensor that will be in that camera. Too bad it won't be the Fuji sensor.

As for in body anti shake, that is a must. Without it, I don't think I will change from Canon and add an E3. More pictures suffer from camera shake than any other blurring device. Those that don't want it can turn it off, the sensor will still shake though to clean off the dust.

One of the strongest advantages of the 4/3 system for a professional is the depth of field. Everybody rushes to buy or lust for a full frame camera. I shoot with the 5D on a daily basis so I am intimately familiar with it. For people photography you have less DOF than with the 1.6 crop sensors at the the same FOV. So with 2 kids in a children's photo shoot on location in their own home for environmental pictures, you are forced to go up to 5.6 or higher if you want both kids in focus. Parents will only buy pictures that are in focus. Unless the subject are on the same plane, one will be out of focus.

The E allows a deep DOF and at the same time allows you to use the wonderful lower F stops, something no other camera does so well. Shoot at a higher strength zoom or tele and you still get nice out of focus backgrounds.

I would be satisfied with just an upgraded E1 with better focusing abilities, and in body antishake. The camera has it's purpose and only needs to be shored up on a few different points. You can always buy that Leica lens for the stabilization, but then what about that 50mm F2??

Peter
 
I really hope that live view is not there, becasue it brings the price up for a feature I will rarely, if ever, use.

Comnpare the rpcie fo the E330 with the E500, I am not willing to pay a
$400 dollar premium for live view.

I would really rather Olympus redirect their effots into getting larger and brighter VFers.

Not that I would buy it, but I would be interested in seeing a successor to the E330, but if Olympus really thinks they are going to woo more high-end users and gain market credibility with live view, then all is for naught.

I cringe when I think of the resources utilized getting an slr to do live view, when they could have been used to update the autofocus to a point where it is nearly competitive with Nikon and Canon.

Leave it out, make the cameras more competitive on the real advantages of 4/3, system size due to the AOV 4/3 gives, all designed for digital lenses, and olympus quality.

--
'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'
Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881)
 
I agree that megapixels need to be in check. The Nikon D2X has some really bad high ISO capability. However, if on the fly pixle binning could be used then really good s/n ratios could be achieved, and the lower ISO's say 100-800 could still be usable.

Say E1-ish, with 12 MP, and then it crops down to like 8 or nine for ISO 1600 and 3200.

It could be done, but once again, the autofocus seriously needs to be addressed to attract more pros-- it really has been Olympus's downfall for the last 30 years or so. Time to catch up Oly--enough tinkering with live view.

--
'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'
Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881)
 
That is so cool for studio work, and planned shots. I woudln't be against it. Live view I am totally against if it the differentiating factor that Oly plans on selling cameras with.

Repeat, if Oly goes all live view, I will go to another manufacturer. It has its place, but on all cameras I hope not.

--
'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'
Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881)
 
Peter,
A nice balanced reply. I would have not expected less.
BTW, thank's for the personal not on my BBC invoice. Nice to see you here.

--
Regards,
(afka Wile E. Coyote)
'Bootstrap?'
Bill
PSAA
Equipment in profile.
Eschew obfuscation.
Carnivorous Vulgaris



Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
 
One question. Is that the Leica sensor in the M8? Or the LMOS in the Digilux?

--
'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'
Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881)
 
how did you jump to the the conclusion of fear? what an emotional response... no fear... just another thing that can go wrong... not saying it is bad... just stating a weakness... if it goes bad the camera is off to be fixed and you are stuck without a camera... needs to be considered... just like the days of integrated motherboards on computers... if the video card went bad the whole things was shot... the more stuff they put on cameras, the more things that can potentially go wrong... you can't take the IS piece out and replace it... you have to send the whole thing in... not fear, but reality... human beings being imperfect and all...
--

When you see a beautiful collection of photons, capture them. You will never see them again.
 
. . . I really just don't understand the "it might break" argument. If paying an extra $2-300 per lens gives you peace of mind, go ahead. I think that for the forseable future Nikon and Canon will give that to you if you want IS. If you don't want IS then that can also be arranged with the current state of the art.

However, it is coming to all systems in one form or another, and I for one would much rather pay for it once, than over and over again.

I have used the Canon 28-135mm f3.5-5.6 lens. The barrel is wobbly, the build quality stinks, the images are not really good at all, it is a kit type lens. However, it retails for around $500 give or take, depending on where you buy it.

A lens like that is marked up at least 100% for this feature. I would rather have a body marked up once than have to pay a lot of money for mediocre lenses that are stabilized-- never mind what I would have to pay to get a really good lens that is stabilized. As it stands my budge is tight, so losing one lens is nearly tantamount to losing my whole camera. Maybe one day I will have a big collection, but not right now.

And if it breaks in the body, I'll get over it, it is just a hobby. If I were a pro, well I would have several backup bodies in case anything breaks on any of the bodies.

--
'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'
Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881)
 

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