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avanbeek

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This is a rhetorical comment:

After reading through all of the votes so far I am left with one important impression:

What makes a good photo is very subjective and one should not expect everyone to like what you do.

It's amazing to me how I can see an image and be so impressed by it yet there are others who don't even vote for it. We are all so affected by who we are when we look at images that our tastes vary dramatically. We can all usually agree on what makes a good technical image but what we like is usually a different matter.

It is this one fact that make photography so tirelessly interesting and fun for me.

Regards,
AVB
 
Hey AVB,

I agree with you completely. It's like walking into a museum and viewing paintings. I may be a fan of Salvatore Dali, while another person prefers Van Gogh. We all have different styles (or are still exploring our styles) in our photography, and as viewers, we all have different tastes. And then add the emotional aspect for each individual and you end up with a wide variety of opinions on which photo is "best".

That said, I think most everyone agrees that "Bella Attacks" is awesome! :P~

Amy
A Van Beek said:
This is a rhetorical comment:

After reading through all of the votes so far I am left with one
important impression:
What makes a good photo is very subjective and one should not
expect everyone to like what you do.

It's amazing to me how I can see an image and be so impressed by it
yet there are others who don't even vote for it. We are all so
affected by who we are when we look at images that our tastes vary
dramatically. We can all usually agree on what makes a good
technical image but what we like is usually a different matter.

It is this one fact that make photography so tirelessly interesting
and fun for me.

Regards,
AVB
Click to expand...
--beauty is really in the LCD/EVF of the beholder http://www.something-fishy.com/photography
 
Thanks for you compliment Amy. I think that if I took the perfect photo and everyone on earth thought that it was the best photo that had ever been taken, I'd be happy at first but would then have to quit photography. The pursuit of perfection is what we all enjoy. Once it has been acheived, it's all down hill from there.

Regards,
AVB
SFishy said:
I agree with you completely. It's like walking into a museum and
viewing paintings. I may be a fan of Salvatore Dali, while another
person prefers Van Gogh. We all have different styles (or are still
exploring our styles) in our photography, and as viewers, we all
have different tastes. And then add the emotional aspect for each
individual and you end up with a wide variety of opinions on which
photo is "best".

That said, I think most everyone agrees that "Bella Attacks" is
awesome! :P~

Amy
A Van Beek said:
This is a rhetorical comment:

After reading through all of the votes so far I am left with one
important impression:
What makes a good photo is very subjective and one should not
expect everyone to like what you do.

It's amazing to me how I can see an image and be so impressed by it
yet there are others who don't even vote for it. We are all so
affected by who we are when we look at images that our tastes vary
dramatically. We can all usually agree on what makes a good
technical image but what we like is usually a different matter.

It is this one fact that make photography so tirelessly interesting
and fun for me.

Regards,
AVB
Click to expand...
--
beauty is really in the LCD/EVF of the beholder
http://www.something-fishy.com/photography
Click to expand...
 
Well, when it comes to artistic expression, "perfection" is in the eye of the beholder... it would be a pretty unusual occurence for everyone on earth to agree you had achieved it -- but it can be fun trying ;)

Amy
A Van Beek said:
Thanks for you compliment Amy. I think that if I took the perfect
photo and everyone on earth thought that it was the best photo that
had ever been taken, I'd be happy at first but would then have to
quit photography. The pursuit of perfection is what we all enjoy.
Once it has been acheived, it's all down hill from there.

Regards,
AVB
Click to expand...
--beauty is really in the LCD/EVF of the beholder http://www.something-fishy.com/photography
 
A Van Beek said:
This is a rhetorical comment:

After reading through all of the votes so far I am left with one
important impression:
What makes a good photo is very subjective and one should not
expect everyone to like what you do.

It's amazing to me how I can see an image and be so impressed by it
yet there are others who don't even vote for it. We are all so
affected by who we are when we look at images that our tastes vary
dramatically. We can all usually agree on what makes a good
technical image but what we like is usually a different matter.

It is this one fact that make photography so tirelessly interesting
and fun for me.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it depends what people are looking for, what they are more sensitive too. For my limited experience, I have noticed that the harder I work on a photo and the more technically difficult it is, the less people are interested.

David.--My photo galleries: http://www.pbase.com/davidp
 
Yup, it's in the eye of the beholder.... but most of us have some common expectations, however expressed. We seem to prefer images that have form or shape to them (composition), that are visually arresting (unusual angles, lighting, colors, textures), that employ contrasts of color and form, and (though not always) which tell stories or suggest "recognizable" forms.

Just HOW WELL an image does these things is entirely in the eye of the beholder. But we do seem collectively to expect an image TO embody most or all of these elements.

There are certainly some I've overlooked ... just food for thought.
SFishy said:
I agree with you completely. It's like walking into a museum and
viewing paintings. I may be a fan of Salvatore Dali, while another
person prefers Van Gogh. We all have different styles (or are still
exploring our styles) in our photography, and as viewers, we all
have different tastes. And then add the emotional aspect for each
individual and you end up with a wide variety of opinions on which
photo is "best".

That said, I think most everyone agrees that "Bella Attacks" is
awesome! :P~

Amy
A Van Beek said:
This is a rhetorical comment:

After reading through all of the votes so far I am left with one
important impression:
What makes a good photo is very subjective and one should not
expect everyone to like what you do.

It's amazing to me how I can see an image and be so impressed by it
yet there are others who don't even vote for it. We are all so
affected by who we are when we look at images that our tastes vary
dramatically. We can all usually agree on what makes a good
technical image but what we like is usually a different matter.

It is this one fact that make photography so tirelessly interesting
and fun for me.

Regards,
AVB
Click to expand...
--
beauty is really in the LCD/EVF of the beholder
http://www.something-fishy.com/photography
Click to expand...
--EricF707 http://www.pbase.com/erichocinc
 
AVB and others,

This brings up an interesting question for me. When evaluating photos, do I admire a photo based on a superb execution of a technique that I have tried but not yet achieved, or based on a superb execution of a technique that I have not yet tried?

Okay, that probably doesn't make sense. So, for example, I'm pretty inept at post-processing and photo manipulation, but I love to take landscapes, night shots, basically anything outdoors. When evaluating a photo, do I respect a manipulated or composite photo more/less becausue I haven't tried it (You Spin Me Round)? What about a clarity of a nightshot that I have never been able to achieve, but have tried and tried (Shay's Seattle shots)? Or someone capturing a photo opportunity that just happens by (Walking Alone Together).

Sadly, I think I need to broaden my perspective. I think I tend to vote for and/or admire photos that I have tried or wished for rather than those that I haven't tried. I suppose its somewhat natural, but is it fair? Spin Me Round by cUrVe is a perfect example. I really think its super cool (along with all of his other stuff), but when it came down to it, I was pretty conservative in my voting.

So, why is this? I think I have came to the conclusion that I really don't have a very discerning eye. I can recognize a nice photo, but not necessarily what makes a super photo from a good one. I also feel I can't really evaluate post-processed works because I just don't know what it takes to create them. I know if I like them, but I don't know what it took. Should that matter? No. Do I care if a photographer came across the most beautiful stream and stuck his head out the car window and took a few shots and whalla! No, I think its a beautiful shot, and don't discredit the photographer for "not working hard enough".

Now, please noone take this wrong. I'm not at all saying that I think digital manipulation is easy, but I don't know enough to really appreciate it. In fact, I'm saying the opposite - that I need to gain a better respect for it, and to think outside my LCD.

Okay, that was kind of a ramble, but my thoughts are disjointed with kids all over the place!

Thanks, AVB, for the rhetorical question.

Jim
A Van Beek said:
This is a rhetorical comment:

After reading through all of the votes so far I am left with one
important impression:
What makes a good photo is very subjective and one should not
expect everyone to like what you do.

It's amazing to me how I can see an image and be so impressed by it
yet there are others who don't even vote for it. We are all so
affected by who we are when we look at images that our tastes vary
dramatically. We can all usually agree on what makes a good
technical image but what we like is usually a different matter.

It is this one fact that make photography so tirelessly interesting
and fun for me.

Regards,
AVB
Click to expand...
--Jim Fuglestad http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries
 
You hit the nail on the head with this post Shutter.

I was thinking about what I used as a basis for deciding on my Challenge choices.

What I tend to use is:

How rare of a capture it is
Would I have thought of that
How long did it take to do

I find it hard to vote for images that I have done something similar before since I feel that if I thought of it then it wasn't that difficult (dumb yes but that's the thought process).

I have a particular fondness for shots that are rare moments like nature action shots or real (not staged) people pictures.

Staged shots are not easy and can be great but I usually don't like them for some reason. I guess it's because if it was done once, it can easily be done again.

AVB
Shutter said:
This brings up an interesting question for me. When evaluating
photos, do I admire a photo based on a superb execution of a
technique that I have tried but not yet achieved, or based on a
superb execution of a technique that I have not yet tried?

Okay, that probably doesn't make sense. So, for example, I'm
pretty inept at post-processing and photo manipulation, but I love
to take landscapes, night shots, basically anything outdoors. When
evaluating a photo, do I respect a manipulated or composite photo
more/less becausue I haven't tried it (You Spin Me Round)? What
about a clarity of a nightshot that I have never been able to
achieve, but have tried and tried (Shay's Seattle shots)? Or
someone capturing a photo opportunity that just happens by (Walking
Alone Together).

Sadly, I think I need to broaden my perspective. I think I tend to
vote for and/or admire photos that I have tried or wished for
rather than those that I haven't tried. I suppose its somewhat
natural, but is it fair? Spin Me Round by cUrVe is a perfect
example. I really think its super cool (along with all of his
other stuff), but when it came down to it, I was pretty
conservative in my voting.

So, why is this? I think I have came to the conclusion that I
really don't have a very discerning eye. I can recognize a nice
photo, but not necessarily what makes a super photo from a good
one. I also feel I can't really evaluate post-processed works
because I just don't know what it takes to create them. I know if
I like them, but I don't know what it took. Should that matter?
No. Do I care if a photographer came across the most beautiful
stream and stuck his head out the car window and took a few shots
and whalla! No, I think its a beautiful shot, and don't discredit
the photographer for "not working hard enough".

Now, please noone take this wrong. I'm not at all saying that I
think digital manipulation is easy, but I don't know enough to
really appreciate it. In fact, I'm saying the opposite - that I
need to gain a better respect for it, and to think outside my LCD.

Okay, that was kind of a ramble, but my thoughts are disjointed
with kids all over the place!

Thanks, AVB, for the rhetorical question.

Jim
A Van Beek said:
This is a rhetorical comment:

After reading through all of the votes so far I am left with one
important impression:
What makes a good photo is very subjective and one should not
expect everyone to like what you do.

It's amazing to me how I can see an image and be so impressed by it
yet there are others who don't even vote for it. We are all so
affected by who we are when we look at images that our tastes vary
dramatically. We can all usually agree on what makes a good
technical image but what we like is usually a different matter.

It is this one fact that make photography so tirelessly interesting
and fun for me.

Regards,
AVB
Click to expand...
--
Jim Fuglestad
http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries
Click to expand...
 
DING! You said it more succinctly than I did.

The perfect example of this from this challenge is Shay's Ludicrous Speed. On my way out west for Christmas, I took about 50 of these, because I was bored. I'm not saying they were any better, maybe maybe not. In fact, I had a 16 meg card filled with them that I just deleted. So then, I'm reading all these great comments in the challenge and thinking "Huh? How hard is this?! I've got 50 of them!" It doesn't really matter that Shay's is probably better, only that it wasn't that creative because I had done it already. Funny, I thought about posting some of them but I didn't think them worthy. So, when it came down to the voting, I couldn't evaluate the shot fairly because I didn't see it with a "fresh" perspective.

BTW: I think (hope?) Shay knows how much I admire his work, his skills, and his encouragement and teaching, so I'm very comfortable discussing this shot specifically.

So, I guess maybe I learned something about myself from Ludicrous Speed. Dang it, Shay! You did it again!

Jim
A Van Beek said:
I was thinking about what I used as a basis for deciding on my
Challenge choices.

What I tend to use is:

How rare of a capture it is
Would I have thought of that
How long did it take to do

I find it hard to vote for images that I have done something
similar before since I feel that if I thought of it then it wasn't
that difficult (dumb yes but that's the thought process).
I have a particular fondness for shots that are rare moments like
nature action shots or real (not staged) people pictures.
Staged shots are not easy and can be great but I usually don't like
them for some reason. I guess it's because if it was done once, it
can easily be done again.

AVB
Shutter said:
This brings up an interesting question for me. When evaluating
photos, do I admire a photo based on a superb execution of a
technique that I have tried but not yet achieved, or based on a
superb execution of a technique that I have not yet tried?

Okay, that probably doesn't make sense. So, for example, I'm
pretty inept at post-processing and photo manipulation, but I love
to take landscapes, night shots, basically anything outdoors. When
evaluating a photo, do I respect a manipulated or composite photo
more/less becausue I haven't tried it (You Spin Me Round)? What
about a clarity of a nightshot that I have never been able to
achieve, but have tried and tried (Shay's Seattle shots)? Or
someone capturing a photo opportunity that just happens by (Walking
Alone Together).

Sadly, I think I need to broaden my perspective. I think I tend to
vote for and/or admire photos that I have tried or wished for
rather than those that I haven't tried. I suppose its somewhat
natural, but is it fair? Spin Me Round by cUrVe is a perfect
example. I really think its super cool (along with all of his
other stuff), but when it came down to it, I was pretty
conservative in my voting.

So, why is this? I think I have came to the conclusion that I
really don't have a very discerning eye. I can recognize a nice
photo, but not necessarily what makes a super photo from a good
one. I also feel I can't really evaluate post-processed works
because I just don't know what it takes to create them. I know if
I like them, but I don't know what it took. Should that matter?
No. Do I care if a photographer came across the most beautiful
stream and stuck his head out the car window and took a few shots
and whalla! No, I think its a beautiful shot, and don't discredit
the photographer for "not working hard enough".

Now, please noone take this wrong. I'm not at all saying that I
think digital manipulation is easy, but I don't know enough to
really appreciate it. In fact, I'm saying the opposite - that I
need to gain a better respect for it, and to think outside my LCD.

Okay, that was kind of a ramble, but my thoughts are disjointed
with kids all over the place!

Thanks, AVB, for the rhetorical question.

Jim
A Van Beek said:
This is a rhetorical comment:

After reading through all of the votes so far I am left with one
important impression:
What makes a good photo is very subjective and one should not
expect everyone to like what you do.

It's amazing to me how I can see an image and be so impressed by it
yet there are others who don't even vote for it. We are all so
affected by who we are when we look at images that our tastes vary
dramatically. We can all usually agree on what makes a good
technical image but what we like is usually a different matter.

It is this one fact that make photography so tirelessly interesting
and fun for me.

Regards,
AVB
Click to expand...
--
Jim Fuglestad
http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--Jim Fuglestad http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries
 
It's funny, because I did not care for the picture much myself. In fact I thought my entries this outing were only so so. But the challenges are important for me, because by having to post something I am working to create the best images I can. And as has been said before what you think is a great image, others would look at with not a second glance and vice versa. So what do I get out of all this? I need to try and get the best I can technically and artistically, post them and see what happens. Read the comments, and what images were prefered and then try to incorporate the best ideas into the next challenge. I am very glad actually for the honest discussion we can have about what we like and don't like. The fears in the past of supposed favoritism happily have not surfaced, and we are all better for it.

--Shay - My Sony F707 Gallery: http://f707.shay.ws/
 
Amen!

My entries in this challenge were only so-so (mainly due to lack of time to concentrate on it)... and they got the recognition they deserve! In fact, I feel good about that ... this crowd has collectively a discerning eye --even if we can't agree on what discernment really is!

eric
Shay said:
It's funny, because I did not care for the picture much myself. In
fact I thought my entries this outing were only so so. But the
challenges are important for me, because by having to post
something I am working to create the best images I can. And as has
been said before what you think is a great image, others would look
at with not a second glance and vice versa. So what do I get out
of all this? I need to try and get the best I can technically and
artistically, post them and see what happens. Read the comments,
and what images were prefered and then try to incorporate the best
ideas into the next challenge. I am very glad actually for the
honest discussion we can have about what we like and don't like.
The fears in the past of supposed favoritism happily have not
surfaced, and we are all better for it.

--
Shay - My Sony F707 Gallery: http://f707.shay.ws/
Click to expand...
--EricF707 http://www.pbase.com/erichocinc
 
Very much in agreement. It's too bad that we can't state our true opinions more openly without fear of offending eachother. I would love some positive criticism on my pictures but don't seem to get any except for silence when an image is not liked.

AVB
erichocinc said:
My entries in this challenge were only so-so (mainly due to lack of
time to concentrate on it)... and they got the recognition they
deserve! In fact, I feel good about that ... this crowd has
collectively a discerning eye --even if we can't agree on what
discernment really is!

eric
Shay said:
It's funny, because I did not care for the picture much myself. In
fact I thought my entries this outing were only so so. But the
challenges are important for me, because by having to post
something I am working to create the best images I can. And as has
been said before what you think is a great image, others would look
at with not a second glance and vice versa. So what do I get out
of all this? I need to try and get the best I can technically and
artistically, post them and see what happens. Read the comments,
and what images were prefered and then try to incorporate the best
ideas into the next challenge. I am very glad actually for the
honest discussion we can have about what we like and don't like.
The fears in the past of supposed favoritism happily have not
surfaced, and we are all better for it.

--
Shay - My Sony F707 Gallery: http://f707.shay.ws/
Click to expand...
--
Eric
F707
http://www.pbase.com/erichocinc
Click to expand...
 
Hi AVB,

Very interesting discussion. However, if you get the perfect shot, I don't think you quit. IMHO, there's a difference between technical greatness and depth of subject. "Bella Attack" has both, and is an incredibly strong photo. But even if it's perfect, there are infinitely more subjects to cover and stories to tell. Getting the perfect photo is only half of the game. Once you get there, it's time to tell more and more stories with your perfect images - and that never ends.

=Hedgehog

--------------------------------
A Van Beek said:
Regards,
AVB
SFishy said:
I agree with you completely. It's like walking into a museum and
viewing paintings. I may be a fan of Salvatore Dali, while another
person prefers Van Gogh. We all have different styles (or are still
exploring our styles) in our photography, and as viewers, we all
have different tastes. And then add the emotional aspect for each
individual and you end up with a wide variety of opinions on which
photo is "best".

That said, I think most everyone agrees that "Bella Attacks" is
awesome! :P~

Amy
A Van Beek said:
This is a rhetorical comment:

After reading through all of the votes so far I am left with one
important impression:
What makes a good photo is very subjective and one should not
expect everyone to like what you do.

It's amazing to me how I can see an image and be so impressed by it
yet there are others who don't even vote for it. We are all so
affected by who we are when we look at images that our tastes vary
dramatically. We can all usually agree on what makes a good
technical image but what we like is usually a different matter.

It is this one fact that make photography so tirelessly interesting
and fun for me.

Regards,
AVB
Click to expand...
--
beauty is really in the LCD/EVF of the beholder
http://www.something-fishy.com/photography
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I think, but feel free to challenge me, that I look at the photos differently. I enjoy looking at all of them, all week while they are being entered. I take a break the day before voting and try to come at them with a somewhat new perspective just as I'm about to vote. Pictures get my vote when they jump off the page at me. I scroll through quickly and the ones that make me stop and take a second look are typically the ones that get my votes.

Sometimes it's based on emotion (such as with Shay's Flight) and sometimes purely technique (such as with Shutter's January Thaw), and sometimes it's a combination of both (Like with AVB's Bella's Attack). I don't think (at least) it's based on any of my own photographic experience, as much as my own preference and eye. Just like I can look at a painting that uses a technique I would never try (or am not very good at), if it invokes SOME kind of thought or emotion in my mind, it's achieved it's goal.

I think that is part of what makes these challenges so great... we all have such a diverse selections of opinions, and in how we choose to vote. We can all benefit and learn so much from each other, and even just grow to appreciate something we might not otherwise look at twice.

ps. Jim... careful there... sometimes good post processing, even if very complex, is good by the shear fact it goes undetected ;) -- same as posed/staged shots :P~ (hehehehe)

Amy
Shutter said:
The perfect example of this from this challenge is Shay's Ludicrous
Speed. On my way out west for Christmas, I took about 50 of these,
because I was bored. I'm not saying they were any better, maybe
maybe not. In fact, I had a 16 meg card filled with them that I
just deleted. So then, I'm reading all these great comments in the
challenge and thinking "Huh? How hard is this?! I've got 50 of
them!" It doesn't really matter that Shay's is probably better,
only that it wasn't that creative because I had done it already.
Funny, I thought about posting some of them but I didn't think them
worthy. So, when it came down to the voting, I couldn't evaluate
the shot fairly because I didn't see it with a "fresh" perspective.

BTW: I think (hope?) Shay knows how much I admire his work, his
skills, and his encouragement and teaching, so I'm very comfortable
discussing this shot specifically.

So, I guess maybe I learned something about myself from Ludicrous
Speed. Dang it, Shay! You did it again!

Jim
A Van Beek said:
You hit the nail on the head with this post Shutter.

I was thinking about what I used as a basis for deciding on my
Challenge choices.

What I tend to use is:

How rare of a capture it is
Would I have thought of that
How long did it take to do

I find it hard to vote for images that I have done something
similar before since I feel that if I thought of it then it wasn't
that difficult (dumb yes but that's the thought process).
I have a particular fondness for shots that are rare moments like
nature action shots or real (not staged) people pictures.
Staged shots are not easy and can be great but I usually don't like
them for some reason. I guess it's because if it was done once, it
can easily be done again.

AVB
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--beauty is really in the LCD/EVF of the beholder http://www.something-fishy.com/photography
 
Excellent point AVB.

Being a newbie, I got a little pushy in trying to get comments from the silence, and some did respond with constructive comments that I find crucial. Even just a few people commenting opened my eyes about many things that will hopefully lead to better images in the future.

This thread is great - it's the "other half" of the challenge that's worthwhile - discussing what people are thinking and looking for in an open forum. This STF is great - great people here.

=Hedgehog
 
Whats not said can speak volumes when you also take into account the comments given to photos that recieved good feedback. How did my photo compare to that one? What is different about my photo from the one that recieved good feedback? Is there a bias to my photo that would not be there had I changed something, is that something I want to change? The questions could go on and on, and by comparing you can learn quite a lot, but it takes effort on your part to get the information.--Shay - My Sony F707 Gallery: http://f707.shay.ws/
 
I agree Amy, I have been trying hard lately to make my photoshopping undetectable as possible. Partly to do a good job of course and partly to challenge the bias many have to "manipulated" images. Just knowing it has been done is enough to turn many off to a photo. If they were not told of the manipulation they would feel differently about the photo. So my goal partly is to manipulate images to make impossible images that you don't see every day and make it look like you could have just walked by and seen thisincredible event. Making the impossible possible without looking unnatural.

That said, the comments and bias has actually helped me to improve because I am trying to perfect my technique so that my manipulation is impossible to distinguish from real life. I am not there yet, but each challenge and post takes me incrementally to my goal, and I appreciate everyones comments and bias because they are very beneficial.
SFishy said:
ps. Jim... careful there... sometimes good post processing, even if
very complex, is good by the shear fact it goes undetected ;) --
same as posed/staged shots :P~ (hehehehe)

Amy
Click to expand...
--Shay - My Sony F707 Gallery: http://f707.shay.ws/
 
Amy's silence is followed up with wisdom.

....and I enjoy post-processing. I slightly process just about every photo. What I need is to gain a better appreciation for digital manimpulation like composites, etc... I certainly don't want to start another posed/unposed discussion. I just end up looking dumb in the end ;-)

Jim
SFishy said:
Sometimes it's based on emotion (such as with Shay's Flight) and
sometimes purely technique (such as with Shutter's January Thaw),
and sometimes it's a combination of both (Like with AVB's Bella's
Attack). I don't think (at least) it's based on any of my own
photographic experience, as much as my own preference and eye. Just
like I can look at a painting that uses a technique I would never
try (or am not very good at), if it invokes SOME kind of thought or
emotion in my mind, it's achieved it's goal.

I think that is part of what makes these challenges so great... we
all have such a diverse selections of opinions, and in how we
choose to vote. We can all benefit and learn so much from each
other, and even just grow to appreciate something we might not
otherwise look at twice.

ps. Jim... careful there... sometimes good post processing, even if
very complex, is good by the shear fact it goes undetected ;) --
same as posed/staged shots :P~ (hehehehe)

Amy
Shutter said:
The perfect example of this from this challenge is Shay's Ludicrous
Speed. On my way out west for Christmas, I took about 50 of these,
because I was bored. I'm not saying they were any better, maybe
maybe not. In fact, I had a 16 meg card filled with them that I
just deleted. So then, I'm reading all these great comments in the
challenge and thinking "Huh? How hard is this?! I've got 50 of
them!" It doesn't really matter that Shay's is probably better,
only that it wasn't that creative because I had done it already.
Funny, I thought about posting some of them but I didn't think them
worthy. So, when it came down to the voting, I couldn't evaluate
the shot fairly because I didn't see it with a "fresh" perspective.

BTW: I think (hope?) Shay knows how much I admire his work, his
skills, and his encouragement and teaching, so I'm very comfortable
discussing this shot specifically.

So, I guess maybe I learned something about myself from Ludicrous
Speed. Dang it, Shay! You did it again!

Jim
A Van Beek said:
You hit the nail on the head with this post Shutter.

I was thinking about what I used as a basis for deciding on my
Challenge choices.

What I tend to use is:

How rare of a capture it is
Would I have thought of that
How long did it take to do

I find it hard to vote for images that I have done something
similar before since I feel that if I thought of it then it wasn't
that difficult (dumb yes but that's the thought process).
I have a particular fondness for shots that are rare moments like
nature action shots or real (not staged) people pictures.
Staged shots are not easy and can be great but I usually don't like
them for some reason. I guess it's because if it was done once, it
can easily be done again.

AVB
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
beauty is really in the LCD/EVF of the beholder
http://www.something-fishy.com/photography
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--Jim Fuglestad http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries
 
If I enter a photo in a challenge or in a gallery its because first and foremost I like it, usually a lot. I never fret about how it will be received, I never know what reaction to expect from others and i am constantly surprised by the level of interest in or indifference to my photos. I am always pleased when others like something I've offered.

Just as in art, photographers styles evolve, and I imagine all of us in this evolution motion. Some of us develop this way, some that; some fast some slow; some shy some daring and so on. Getting approval, or a vote for a photo, as I see it, kind of depends where a person viewing your work, is in their own evolution. If their developmental trajectory happens to intersect yours I imagine that they will be enthusiastic about your work.

That being said, their are those immortal shots that seem to resonate with just about everyone. The sailor kissing the girl in Times Square at the end of WWII, Robert Capa's shot of the doomed soldier in the Spanish Civil War, I could name many others as could all of you.

So, I hope we all think about getting the impossible immortal shot. But more that we live in the visual moment, to see things as they happen, from a different perspective, to find the unusual in the commonplace and keep on sharing.

Fremiet
 
I wrote in another thread a suggestion that has probably already been discussed, or perhaps has been tried regarding voting.

Maybe I feel this way because I'm new, but I have read posts alluding to this as well. I feel that more good can be done in future votes by allowing the voter more breadth in voting. Say for example - give people 20 or 30 points to distribute to images however they please, with say a 3 or 5 point maximum that can be given to any one image. Then, at the end, don't just tally the top three, but rather, make a list of all the photos that received points, and give the point totals for each.

I think this accomplishes many positive things:

1) Being someone that has little experience and is really just starting to learn, even having one person give a point to my photo is very motivating. This will keep more people interested.

2) More statistics. This would help to illustrate the great breadth of which people rate photos, directly with numbers. So, let's say one photo is excellent technically, and another has a powerful idea. With more points floating around, these images could rank very closely in the final tally.

3) Elimination of "voting remorse". It seems that in earlier challenges, the number of images was far less than it is now. So, picking the top 3, plus honorable mention covered a far greater percentage of the total images. However, now - after I put my votes in, I actually feel badly because there were so many others that I really wanted to express an interest for with points, but there were not enough slots. From reading posts, I think many people feel the same way.

Finally, I don't think this is any more difficult for the organizer to tally than in the present system.

=Comments?

=Hedgehog
 
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