I really like B&H, but....

i prove my iq by my accountant's religion.. that wasn't a joke.. it's true.. he is.. so screw off yet again.. it's funny how wrong you are a$$doctor... next you're going to tell me that i'm antisemetic for noticing that jewish people run the entertainment business.. I said nothing wrong.. just noted that my accountant is jewish.. and he is.. you're my non-friend.. are a moron.

--
Savage.

ohh no... i just realized why you're so mad at me... it's because you shoot nikon and I switched over... is that it... why are you even on the canon forum.. thinking of switching?.. i would have needed your help if i kept lugging that d2x around..
--
Savage.

... IMHO, if logic itself implies anything at all about the matter, it probably implies there is a creator. Afterall, logic implies there is intelligence behind that logic. Should we really believe that intelligence comes out of nothing?

Just because the larger scientific community has chosen by faith(!) to assume there is no creator does not mean there is none. On some levels, everyone of us operate by faith regardless of what we'd like to call ourselves.

Have a good day...

Man

saynomore said:

StephaneB said:

Would you prefer agnostic?

Click to expand...

Agnostics believe that there is ultimately no way to know if there
is a god or a superman creator. That is a pretty sensible thought,
actually, but I am not one of those. I am between an agnostic and
what religious folk call atheist, if you will. I think that
question needn't even be asked unless there is evidence or some
logic that dictates or even implies there is actually a creator.

There may have been a reason in the Middle Ages and before. "What
is that bright light that hides at night? Must be a God". We did
away with all that by scientific inquiry, even before formal
science got started, and by now, the evidence actually points to a
very unintelligent design, if there is even a design to begin with,
to the biological and cosmological evolution.

saynomore said:

I can perfectly understand that a religious person could find my
condition of being non religious a pityful one. I don't agree, but
that does not mean I'm right.

Click to expand...

Relativism is all the rage it seems, even for people to whom it
shouldn't be. "What is right?", right? Well, not really. There
actually is logical, rational thought, and illogical, irrational
thought. In this issue, there is no gray area. There is no mildly
logical, or mildly rational. In this case, whoever can actually
justifiy their beliefs with hard evidence or logical thought, is
actually, factually right. And if one is right...

saynomore said:

So, athiest has that meaning, literally 'without a god'. I am not
offended to be called that way.

Click to expand...

I am not offended either, only that I think it is rather
presumptuous to invent a term assuming that everybody believes in
your core beliefs ("there is a god in the first place") and then
part from it. And worst of all, this is a term for people who
actually don't subscribe to that. Imagine if astrologers went on
the large-scale media and stated that everybody who don't belief in
astrology should describe themselves as un-astrologers. How silly
would that be? The same kind of non-offensive, but presumptuous
silly, exactly.

Click to expand...

--



Just another amateur learning to paint w/ 'the light of the world.' (John 8:12)
'Cameras are for making photos, not war...'
See my profile for some useful resources.
As usual, YMMV + caveat emptor.
Contact me at [email protected]
Indulge my fancies at http://www.pbase.com/mandnwong

LOL...

see, you again prove yourself the idiot that we take you for. Your post earlier was basically the same as saying "I'm not a bigot, I have a for an accountant."

its like saying "they make great accountants"

you are what you are... something that should be flushed down a toilet.

smearedblue said:

i prove my iq by my accountant's religion.. that wasn't a joke..
it's true.. he is.. so screw off yet again.. it's funny how wrong
you are a$$doctor... next you're going to tell me that i'm
antisemetic for noticing that jewish people run the entertainment
business.. I said nothing wrong.. just noted that my accountant is
jewish.. and he is.. you're my non-friend.. are a moron.

--
Savage.

Click to expand...

--
Harris

PBase/DPReview/NTF supporter
Egret Stalker #4, WSSA #29

http://www.pbase.com/backdoctor

you are really funny to watch at work.

I can care less about what you shoot. Oh, wait. Let me be just like you...

" I have friends that shoot canon"

does that make it better.

you really are pathetic.

and by the way, if you're going to be a bigot, at least spell it correctly. It's antisemite, or antisemitism. Not antisematism. But it shows your low IQ.

smearedblue said:

ohh no... i just realized why you're so mad at me... it's because
you shoot nikon and I switched over... is that it... why are you
even on the canon forum.. thinking of switching?.. i would have
needed your help if i kept lugging that d2x around..
--
Savage.

Click to expand...

--
Harris

PBase/DPReview/NTF supporter
Egret Stalker #4, WSSA #29

http://www.pbase.com/backdoctor

If you don't wanna read everything, just read the last paragraphs, I explain there what really disturbs me about something you said, as it seems to be all the rage here in the (very dangerously) most powerful country in the world.

Man-Fai Wong said:

... IMHO, if logic itself implies anything at all about the matter,
it probably implies there is a creator. Afterall, logic implies
there is intelligence behind that logic. Should we really believe
that intelligence comes out of nothing?

Click to expand...

I mean logic, as in 1+1=2, as in p-> q = pvq and so on. You are talking about intuition, and that's what religious people usually do. I'm not demonizing you, by the way, as some (most?) of the religious folk do with us "non-believers". Not talking specifically about you there. If you wanna talk logic, then you have to maintain logic all the way, and explain logically who created the creator, which can't be done unless it is ad infinitum. Classic, old stuff, I know, but valid nonetheless.

First of all, that we still don't know exactly how intelligence came to be, doesn't mean we should take the "leap of faith" yet and announce an all-powerful creator. Even if it turns to actually be unknowable in our human existence. Doesn't mean we should actyally deny it either, but the fact is that there is no evidence or logical train of though pointing to one means that that question is not needed for the moment as a fundamental part of our worldview.

Even more so, the evidence points to no design at all, to utter chaos (either that or the designer is a glorified version of G.W. Bush). There are, as have been in the past couple of millennia, still advances in science that tell us more and more. And even without the most recent studies in neurology, intelligence is not a human's own anymore. Animals have it, in perfectly concordance with Darwin's theory and "higher" species.

Maybe you are talking about consciousness. There have also been some advances there, and most scientific hypotheses (came to by careful scientific observation) trunce the leap of faith that "some higher beign had to give it to us" any time.

Man-Fai Wong said:

Just because the larger scientific community has chosen by faith(!)
to assume there is no creator does not mean there is none. On
some levels, everyone of us operate by faith regardless of what
we'd like to call ourselves.

Click to expand...

This really disturbs me. I and others like me don't assume "by faith" that there is no creator. Religious people do assume that there is one. What science is telling us nowadays (as always have) is that we don't need to rush to conclusions. The question still is not needed, besides to appease our depressed minds yearning to find a meaning. But that doesn't give validity to anything, it is just wishful thinking.

Science and religion don't compete for truthfulness (they do usually compete for our worldview, which is different). Science is just the best, most honest method humans have come up with to get to the truth, and it is filled with skeptics, and subject to very close scrutiny. Religion (as in Faith) doesn't allow for doubt, skeptics are badly seen in it, and there is no scrutiny at all (where in some cases there should be urgently). Just look at their track records. Science, especially quantum mechanics, can make predictions and explain phenomena not even god could have dreamed about, ever.

And what about our "gods"? They were wrong about the witches, the jews, the sun, the sky, the stars, the animals, the earth, etc, and religious tenets are being proven wrong all the time, especially since the last century. When a scientific theory is wrong it, dutifully and humbly admits its defeat, which usually is just some fine tuning anyway, not a complete defeat, and it is usually the great scrutiny it is under that can provide a more enlightening truth.

I usually don't engage into this, but I do find that relativism disturbing, excuse me other people here. Attacking science is no excuse for unverifiable beliefs.

Man-Fai Wong said:

Have a good day...

Man

Click to expand...

enough folks ...
Keith D -

Come on man, B&H choose to give thier employees Jewish holidays off because the owners are Jewish and that is important to them. They are, IMHO, putting faith over money. I personally respect that.

Not too long ago I worked 84 hour weeks taking off just 1 or 2 weekends a month. I made a ton of cash but it cost me dearly. I missed my kids birthday partys, ball games, school plays, etc. I have more moneys in the bank then I have ever had but have a lot of regreats that go with it.

This past summer we went to Millersburg, OH (Amish country) for a few days, between 5 and 6 pm, everything shuts down. As a tourist, this could be frustraiting but I stopped and thought about how it is important to have dinner with thier families, I bet they don't die with regreats.

I now have a job that allows me weekends off, eat dinner at home, spend time with my family. I can't get back what I lost, I can enjoy what I have. It took me most of my working life to figure out what is really important, B&H already knows thier priorties and allows thier mostly Jewish staff (been there, seen that) time off to worship and reflect with thier families. Wouldn't the world be a better place if we all did that?

Of course as consumers we have the right to shop and spend our money any where and any way we want (God bless America), but I for one have no problem placing my order on line and having to wait a few extra days for shipment because of a Jewish, Christian, or an American holiday.

To answer your question: These guys sell photo supplys and the like, THIER NOT SAVING LIVES! I was raised as a Catholic that working Sundays was a sin, stores and malls were closed on Sunday. Buyng fresh meat on sunday was aganst the law (so called blue laws). But I'm sure I was stiched back to health a couple of times on Sunday at the local Catholic hosipital.

Is selling you a new lens so much more important to you than letting others have a holiday off?

Geoman said:

Buy from somewhere else, I have to admit, I hate their scedual,
they have lost a lot of business from me and MANY other, but they
choose to, and because its their business, they can close whenever
they want.. Accept it and buy from someone else on the weekends..

They have the freedom to select when they will and will not be
open. I dont agree with the whole idea, but thats the way it is..

I HAVE a REAL QUESTION, what do people who follow the same faith
the owners of BH PHOTO do when they HAVE to work on a holiday or
weekend..

For example, could they be a wedding photographer? a Doctor, etc.

Someone who has to be on-call all the time.. esp a doctor..

I have to tell you, if my doctor told me he could not do critical
call on weeksend I would find a new doctor..

If anyone know the answer to this situation let me know..

Click to expand...

--
http://www.worland.net

Richard Smith said:

It would be interesting to know why they made the change.

I own an oven that can turn itself on and off at preset times, this
is done
for the benefit of Jewish people who aren't allowed to operate
machinery
during the sabbath and similar holy days, so they can start their meal
preparation before sundown without worrying about turning off the oven
after the start of sabbath. Rabbinical authorities have long
understood and
accepted this.

Setting up an automated system to take orders over the internet is
kind
of the same thing. At the very least I'd like to hear what the
Rabbinical
line of reasoning is to say otherwise.

Click to expand...

Ask 3 rabbis a question and you will get 5 answers. The more orthadox the rabbi's faith, the more likely the answer will say automated conviences like that self shutting off stove shutting it's self off after sundown friday isn't allowed. As there are many different interpretations of Christian faith, so are there many different interpretations of Jewish faith. To each their own.

--
Bryan - click, click, click, click, moo, click, click...

I guess you could interpret it that way. But, a person is not taking the order. Some computer server is taking the order, checking inventory, charging the CC, etc.
--
jerryk.smugmug.com

It's definitely a matter of interpretation. Since there weren't many PCs in Biblical times, it's not clear exactly how the law should be applied. Some feel that if it is their computer/server taking the orders, then it is the same as if they were taking the orders themselves. Others are OK with automating certain tasks with timers, etc. Apparently the B&H owners are taking the stricter interpretation and applying it to their on-line business. That's their right, and in their minds their duty, so anyone who complains is simply intolerant of others views.

jerryk said:

I guess you could interpret it that way. But, a person is not
taking the order. Some computer server is taking the order,
checking inventory, charging the CC, etc.
--
jerryk.smugmug.com

Click to expand...

--
Rick

I think it's enough already. Those who don't understand that is forbidden to conduct business on certain days for people of the Jewish faith, and are unwilling to allow them to do that, I don't have much interest in or respect for.

I love New York in June, how about you?
--
Shoot lots of pictures, always fill the frame

You know I've been planning on buying a 5d and a 24-105mm this week. I've been trying to find the lowest price. I've bought from B&H before but there are lower prices on other sites. I'm ashamed of myself. Any store as honest as B&H who willing give up lots of money to be faithful to their religion gets my business. I will order from them today.

It's simple---PLAN-AHEAD!!!!!!!

If something comes up and you really can't wait--buy from someone else. If it's a popular item it'll probably be out of stock somewhere and you'll receive it later than if you wait for B&H to open.

I'm not Jewish, but I respect their religion and plan accordingly.

No one wants to wait anymore.
Slow down and enjoy life!!!

my 2 cents

Nice post, I am glad you have learned that lesson, and can now have weekends off! Good for us to read.