Field use digital camera

The nature of my work at long last forces me to embrace the technology and go digital. As such, I seek recommendations for my first digital camera. I feel I am betraying my venerable Canon A1, but storing and working with images on my iBook and then posting to a Website just is not working. . . . lol

What I do:

Field test emergency and tactical survival gear in actual life/death/emergency situations.

What I need the camera to do:

1. Stand up to the rigors of my new job--travel, rough handling, hostile environments, harsh sunlight, low light, no light--while remaining readily and easily (EASILY) deployable. I know, I know: "He doesn't want much, now, does he? I am realistic. I will most certainly make trade-offs. Still, some cameras will no doubt out perform others in this area. And, yes, I do take all possible precautions and due care in handling my electronics. However. . . . "Things do happen."

2. Take images of a quality acceptable for downloading/publication via my laptop/desktop and distribution over the Web and CDs. Prints are not of concern on my end.
3. Work with photo/image editing software--the usual/standard "stuff."

The images I capture will be used to demonstrate and/or illustrate a given product's or technique's strengths and/or shortcomings: e.g., "As you can see in the accompanying photo, the helmet sustained little damage as a result of the impact." No photo contests loom on the horizon. This is basically a tool for capturing images and posting them to the company's Website.

I am leaning towards the Canon A610/620, the A700, and the A710.

Thoughts?

Thanks.

Can't see any reason why a P&S shouldn't work if the A1 worked, it wasn't that rugged and it's much easier to protect a smaller camera. If you don't need a lot of zoom then there's alot to choose from. Canon A610/620 has just been replaced with the A630/640 with higher pixel count. The sensors are (probably) a newer generation so the noise shouln't ba any worse than the old models. I like the movable LCD on these models and the use of AA batteries. Can't comment on the 700/710.

The Fuji F30 offer better low light images than the Canon models, but a fixed LCD.

Both Pentax and Olympus offer special waterproof models and you might want to check out those. Also, Olympus mju series (might be called something else n different markets) are splash proof.

Thanks, Svein.

My wife has an A620 she uses in her job and she is very happy with it. Her basic use is the same as mine (capturing "moments in time" and Website work), but in an office environment. No desert sands, urban jungles, or raging rivers for her. How boring. lol

I stressed the "durability factor" only because an otherwise fabulous but inoperable camera will not take even the poorest of images as captured by a working "bottom of the heap" camera.

I am encouraged by your assessment of the A1: I have carried and used that camera daily for many years; it has the scars to prove it, too. Dropped, kicked, bounced around . . . still works. Anecdote: A security screener at IAD DROPPED it (UGH!) during check-in. I picked it up and snapped two quick close-up "portraits" of the screener, “just in case.” The pics turned out fine, and the dime-sized dent in the bottom of the body has long since become just another "war story." If the A1 is fragile in comparison to the A630/A640, then I will be well served.

I will check out the A630/A640 per your recommendation. The AA batteries are a big plus, as all my other field electronics use the same.

Again, thanks.

Think you misunderstood if you got the impression that I called the A1 fragile, never owned one myself, but several friends used A1s. I've used AE-1, T70 and several other models including Eos 5, 500 and 20D. The A1 was top of the consumer cameras and pretty good, but wasn't (if i remember correctly) wethersealed or all metal. What I meant was that all slrs have a lot of moving parts and openings compared to a digicam. It's a pretty "protected" package as long as you don't knock it while the lens is out.

I've never had a work like you describe, but I've carried cameras in a lot of outdoor activities, including 5-6 months hikes. I try to keep the camera in a ziplock bag when not in use and that seem to solve most water/dust problems, but guess you know more about that than me.

Svein Eriksen said:

Think you misunderstood if you got the impression that I called the
A1 fragile, never owned one myself, but several friends used A1s.
I've used AE-1, T70 and several other models including Eos 5, 500
and 20D. The A1 was top of the consumer cameras and pretty good,
but wasn't (if i remember correctly) wethersealed or all metal.

Click to expand...

N-no. Not at all.

The ability to "point and shoot" is what I am after, anything beyond that is just icing on the cake. If the digital format is no more sensitive (i.e., "fragile") than are my trusty old SLRs, than I will be fine.

I, too, have an AE-1. It has always worked and still does. Plastic, metal, glass, add film and whatever is in the batteries--parts made of everything but wood and water.

Svein Eriksen said:

What I meant was that all slrs have a lot of moving parts and
openings compared to a digicam. It's a pretty "protected" package
as long as you don't knock it while the lens is out.

Click to expand...

Uh . . . um . . . yes. A lesson I learned the quick, easy, and expensive way. (oops!)

Svein Eriksen said:

I've never had a work like you describe, but I've carried cameras
in a lot of outdoor activities, including 5-6 months hikes. I try
to keep the camera in a ziplock bag when not in use and that seem
to solve most water/dust problems,

Click to expand...

Same. ZipLocks have to be among the greatest inventions of all time. Try finding them in a local grocery store in proximity to a military base prior to a deployment. Nada. I always "double-bag" my mission critical gear: no air inside the bag holding the device; and as space permits, I seal the outer bag(s) with air inside. This adds cushioning and buoyancy to my ruck. It takes a fairly substantial slam to "pop" the bags. Even if the outer bags burst, the device is still sealed in the inner bag (BTW: I always use the HD "freezer storage" bags). YMMV

Svein Eriksen said:

but guess you know more aboutthat than me.

Click to expand...

Sheeeeesh! Do not sell yourself short. "5-6 month hikes" are as much an "acid test" as anything. That you did so without requiring the services of the likes of me speaks volumes as to your abilities and foresight. Obviously, you do it right.

'Tis I who can learn from you. Really.

Thanks again for your advice.

if you can't find another a620, i'd go w/ the lower 8mp a630 vs. a640.

CRat said:

The nature of my work at long last forces me to embrace the
technology and go digital. As such, I seek recommendations for my
first digital camera. I feel I am betraying my venerable Canon A1,
but storing and working with images on my iBook and then posting to
a Website just is not working. . . . lol

What I do:

Field test emergency and tactical survival gear in actual
life/death/emergency situations.

What I need the camera to do:

1. Stand up to the rigors of my new job--travel, rough handling,
hostile environments, harsh sunlight, low light, no light--while
remaining readily and easily (EASILY) deployable. I know, I know:
"He doesn't want much, now, does he? I am realistic. I will most
certainly make trade-offs. Still, some cameras will no doubt out
perform others in this area. And, yes, I do take all possible
precautions and due care in handling my electronics. However. . .
. "Things do happen."
2. Take images of a quality acceptable for downloading/publication
via my laptop/desktop and distribution over the Web and CDs.
Prints are not of concern on my end.
3. Work with photo/image editing software--the usual/standard
"stuff."

The images I capture will be used to demonstrate and/or illustrate
a given product's or technique's strengths and/or shortcomings:
e.g., "As you can see in the accompanying photo, the helmet
sustained little damage as a result of the impact." No photo
contests loom on the horizon. This is basically a tool for
capturing images and posting them to the company's Website.

I am leaning towards the Canon A610/620, the A700, and the A710.

Thoughts?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

They are selling Olympus E-1, with 14-54 lens for SILLY money now.

Yes, the E-1 is 'old hat' compared to some DSLR these days, but it's utterly bomb proof, weathersealed, and survives water, dust, sand, even getting thrown against a tree by an Orang who wasn't happy because he couldn't eat it...

Oh, and turn the main dial to P, and it's a big P&S if you want it to be!

--

1. ######
2. ####_O Tim Yorath
3. #### />
4. #### @ UK.
5. ### \

http://catmangler.smugmug.com/

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Ricoh/ricoh_500g.asp

My wife and kids do a lot of Backcountry skiing, plus we spend a lot of time in Zodiacs to and from bigger boats, often in SALT water...

I too use (and LOVE ZIPlocks) but still several of my cameras have been damaged due to droping in snow, or salt water exposure... (I actually like to take pictures in a zodiac, not just transport the camera.)

So I am considering one of these beauties...
Ricoh 500G

There's a badass fuji that takes AAs :

http://fujifilm.jp/personal/digitalcamera/bigjobhd1/index.html

pro_photo said:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Ricoh/ricoh_500g.asp

Click to expand...

(snip)

pro_photo said:

So I am considering one of these beauties...
Ricoh 500G

Click to expand...

EXCELLENT. This is exactly what I am looking for. (THANKS!)

Unfortunately, I have found scant few reviews--most appear to be "previews." Am I to understand the 500G replaces the 400G? Any insight as to ease of use (i.e, ability to point-and-shoot under stress/duress is a big deal for me), and image quality? I am having considerable difficulty locating retailers who have these: any ideas as to where I can buy one?

Again, thanks for the heads-up!

Just another thought. I have a canon elph s230 and an underwater case I use for places I don't want to bring my DSLR. It is rated for 100ft, although I haven't taken it deeper then about 10ft. It keeps sand out too. The flash diffuser comes off for above water shots. The only downside is that the microphone is muffled when shooting movies.

I think I paid about $140 for the case. I am sure they are offered for the newer Canon cameras.

CRat said:

EXCELLENT. This is exactly what I am looking for. (THANKS!)

Click to expand...

CRat said:

Unfortunately, I have found scant few reviews--most appear to be
"previews."

Click to expand...

Agree, Not much info, My only guess is this would be MUCH better than say one of the Olympus (wateresistant types) (but only a guess)

CRat said:

I am having considerable difficulty locating retailers who have these:
any ideas as to where I can buy one?

Click to expand...

I had the same problem, EVEN google didn't turn up any retailers.
SO I asked about 2 weeks ago on the Ricoh forum.
I got this site: (and have been in contact, so far very nice people)
http://www.popflash.com

Yes I forgot to say, that up till now, I've used a Canon S60 then s70, in a Dive case...

The case brings every functiion to the back, so its formitable and very intimidating when I hand it off to one of my kids, who will go places on skis I will NEVER GO. (not to mention places underwater)

The Dive case is awesome from canon, BUT takes constant care on the seals, and heating with a hair drier, before each outing, to keep the mostiure out of the inside... When the water cools the air inside.

I must say that using a S60/70/80 has produced some of my best pictures, EVER. (even given the plastic of the case). It doesn't really have enough flash for UNDERWATER. But at the surface, or rain, or boats or for just outdoors in nasty weather. It's plain amazing... if only they made waterproof version...

Do let me know, it you try one of these Ricoh's.

I also travel with my trusty canon 20D but never pull it out of the Ziplock on the zodiac...

pro_photo said:

Yes I forgot to say, that up till now, I've used a Canon S60 then
s70, in a Dive case...
The case brings every functiion to the back, so its formitable and
very intimidating when I hand it off to one of my kids, who will go
places on skis I will NEVER GO. (not to mention places underwater)
The Dive case is awesome from canon, BUT takes constant care on the
seals, and heating with a hair drier, before each outing, to keep
the mostiure out of the inside... When the water cools the air
inside.

I must say that using a S60/70/80 has produced some of my best
pictures, EVER. (even given the plastic of the case). It doesn't
really have enough flash for UNDERWATER. But at the surface, or
rain, or boats or for just outdoors in nasty weather. It's plain
amazing... if only they made waterproof version...

Do let me know, it you try one of these Ricoh's.

I also travel with my trusty canon 20D but never pull it out of the
Ziplock on the zodiac...

Click to expand...

I had considered this, but had not researched it.

What I have found in a cursory search (Amazon):

Canon A620 = ~$325 (The A630 is 275, but I have yet to find a weather resistant case)
Canon case = ~$175

Puts the above rig in the $500-range. (I'll have to buy a hair dryer, too: shaved head. lol)

For another $75-ish, I can get the Ricoh Caplio 500G.

Hmmm . . .

Do the useful life (i.e., the technology) and features justify the price: roughly twice the price of an A630?

Is the quailty of the Ricoh's images/pics taken under extreme conditions more than acceptable for my use: i.e., posting to Websites and saving to CDs, etc.?

And there is no "vari-angle display" to shear off? (This is a major concern.)

This is looking like a no-brainer.

Now to find one of these things.

Again, thanks.

CRat said:

I had considered this, but had not researched it.
Puts the above rig in the $500-range. (I'll have to buy a hair
dryer, too: shaved head. lol)

Click to expand...

Let me be clear, using a dive case is GREAT, for canoe, kayak, backcountry, boating, and umm diving.. BUT a BIG Royal pain in the butt! And my wife/ kids won't use it!!! The prepartion time, the attention to detail, Trying to EVEN find new seals every year, has really sent me to the loony bin.. You have to pack a tube if silcon seal, some wood tooth picks(to get the seals out) and each time you open it, reseal, (make a big mess) and then blow dry the air inside, (I use little salt packs as well) AND let's NOT forget the hairdryer! (and yes my wife asks me everytime, "why you brining that thing?" :--)

CRat said:

For another $75-ish, I can get the Ricoh Caplio 500G.

Click to expand...

CRat said:

Do the useful life (i.e., the technology) and features justify the
price: roughly twice the price of an A630?

Click to expand...

CRat said:

Is the quailty of the Ricoh's images/pics taken under extreme
conditions more than acceptable for my use: i.e., posting to
Websites and saving to CDs, etc.?

Click to expand...

These surely are good questions! The Ricoh, does look good in theory.
I will probabaly buy one before my next trip.

If this thread is STILL alive tonight, I post a couple non dive pictures taken with the the NEEDED case.... Water/snow/sand/salt/dust dangers everywhere I go!

CRat said:

This is looking like a no-brainer.
Now to find one of these things.

Click to expand...

You did see my post up a bit for a ONE place to buy??? It's the only one I've found so far...

I am most grateful for the detailed input, pro_photo. Seems a case is a great choice should other options be unavailable.

In that we have other options . . . well. . . .

The major factor for me is whether I can grab my camera and shoot at a moments--or less--notice. Two "sub-factors" determine that: 1. a P&S capable camera; 2. a field-hardy camera in working order.

I think I have worled through the justification stage of the decision process. Now, I have to get through the "take a deep breath and pull out the plastic stage" stage. lol

I am fairly certain the 500G is the right tool for the job. I cannot see myself "outgrowing" its capabilities in the forseeable future.

(Then again, I once knew "this guy" who went with BETA format. . . . lol)

Again, thanks!

CRat said:

(Then again, I once knew "this guy" who went with BETA format. . .
. lol)

Click to expand...

Well certainly be careful of my advice, I also went for Beta format, said digital camers will never fly (correct on that one ;-), and would have bought an Edsel, if my eye was not caught by that wonderfull robust British Hillman Minx.

BTW Sony has a U60 (perhaps obsolete now) AND Pentax
has the Pentax Optio W20
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Pentax/pentax_optiow20.asp

which is new (but only water resistant)

In my film days I had a pentax water resistant film S90 (I think) It took wonderfull pictures on 35mm film, and was abused a lot by me and the kids!

There are many dangers to a camera, and I promised to show some of them in photo... ( I do carry a 20D but seldom take it out in these conditions... These are all taken with my trusty and beautiful S60 (now run over by a car! and replaced with a S70 - same dive Case)

These are all Dive case photos... Note the one in sand! (and yes its a hard life for my camera) has a somewhat sureal look/feel, due to the plastic dive case. But I love the look for this picture..

First the Sand problem:



Then the SEA (zodiac) problem:



Then the underwater issues:



Its a tough life, but someone has to do it!

Jeeeeze, pro_.

Looking at your images, it becomes clear to me that I do not need a camera: I need a LIFE!

I see what you mean about the dive case. I appreciate your sharing your experience. It makes my decision easier: Scratch the dive case (so to speak).

Thinking I had made my decision, I went so far as to call popflash, yesterday. Josh was exceedingly helpful and very willing to walk me through the wants (i.e., possible scenarios) v needs (plausible scenarios) v reality (probable scenarios) process. We concluded that if an A1 has served me well, then just about any camera should do the same. Ultimately, I concluded that I am seeking a new camera because I need to move to digital format, not because I have destroyed or anticipate destroying my venerable 35mm SLR.

No doubt, the Ricoh 500G will do the job, and sans the hassle of a weather-tight case and all that comes with it. I am all about the "less is more" approach.

Then again, I really liked the looks of the pancake-lens-equipped Pentax *ist (DS?) I saw in the hands of one of the football dads at the kids' game last night. I am wondering if this might be a viable option? The DSLR would certainly afford greater versatility over the P&S; how will it stand up to the rigors of SAR (Search And Rescue) work and "hostile" (combat) environments?

Thoughts on the Pentax offerings?

(I may be back to square one?)

CRat said:

Then again, I really liked the looks of the pancake-lens-equipped
Pentax *ist (DS?) I saw in the hands of one of the football dads at
the kids' game last night. I am wondering if this might be a
viable option? The DSLR would certainly afford greater versatility
over the P&S; how will it stand up to the rigors of SAR (Search And
Rescue) work and "hostile" (combat) environments?

Thoughts on the Pentax offerings?

Click to expand...

Oh oh, well I really think you and I have the SAME type of hostil environments to deal with... (think of those "join the Army" ads ) Its amazing what a few carefully thought out pictures can do to your mind, which will ONLY lead to "sand blowing in your face, as you are up to your neck in mud, and about to drown in Salt water" Or to put it another way, "pretty women, and the south pacific have their problems too" (right now of course I can't think of one but I will!)

HEY I DID mention right BACK a few post ago... ONE pentax:
see
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1018&message=20248980

And yes, buying a few cheaper cameras will get you to the same place as one good one...

But re-thinking.. Those pretty pictures look enticing Because they are Sharp, colorful, and as good as my canon 20d (almost). There was little or NO post processing , no noise reduction/ sharpening etc. It was on AUTO!

DSLR: Yikes dont' do it...

as I said I have and carry a 20d, ( I would never take it out in those conditions... NEVER) Well having said that, I did, I can show you the sensor blotches too.... (I have picts, to prove it!!!!) (Darn, maybe I can't show you those on This web site) But I can cut the sky out and show you. BIG blotches, from dust/ salt and mostly from a back country trip in Alta...

Here is the Biggest rub so far with my DSLR, you need to carry 'sensor cleaning fluid' (i.e, Eclipse -trade name... That is Methanol!!!!!) But of course, YOU CAN't do that on any plane!!! With out methanol you are pretty much a dirty sensor !!!! Trust me on this one! Been there, done that...

Pentax waterresisitant... maybe, Watch the image quality..!

oh and do tell me what you end up with, and how you like it!
I'm going back to ALTA UA. Now that is extreme....