D200 now, before Velvia 50.

Keep using Fuji and you would not have to use all these silly
settings on a stupid computer....
Sorry just could not resist.
Tony K
I agree completely.

2 pages of posts on how to make your DSLR behave like Velvia. Seems
like a whole lotta trouble when you could just shoot a roll
of…..drum roll please……Velvia and get the real deal. Now, anybody
have an idea how to make ground beef taste like steak, or how to
make water taste like wine? Look, I know digital is addictive, but
sometimes ya just need to put away the 'ol crutch and shoot some
film.
First, there can be 2 pages of posts on this forum on any topic. That means nothing.

This is a ridiculous luddite view. There were other luddites who wondered why have a silly computer act like a typewriter when one could use a real typewriter.

After one has the proper method to make their DSLR perform like whatever film it takes seconds to run that acton on every single image they run from that point on. While you're shooting your expensive film the digital shooter keeps reaping the inexpensive benefit of having their photos the way they like them. While you're sending your 36 exposures of expensive film to an expensive lab and waiting on them to return the results to you. The digital shooter has ordered their silly computer to process a few hundred of thier photos to look like Velvia or whatever else so they can come back and see the results in a few minutes.

If you like film, great but you got it backwards. Film is the old crutch. I totally understand why some people like film better but it is just ignorant to try to tell somebody else how they should or shouldn't use digital.

--
Ed C.
 
First, there can be 2 pages of posts on this forum on any topic.
That means nothing.

This is a ridiculous luddite view. There were other luddites who
wondered why have a silly computer act like a typewriter when one
could use a real typewriter.

After one has the proper method to make their DSLR perform like
whatever film it takes seconds to run that acton on every single
image they run from that point on. While you're shooting your
expensive film the digital shooter keeps reaping the inexpensive
benefit of having their photos the way they like them. While
you're sending your 36 exposures of expensive film to an expensive
lab and waiting on them to return the results to you. The digital
shooter has ordered their silly computer to process a few hundred
of thier photos to look like Velvia or whatever else so they can
come back and see the results in a few minutes.

If you like film, great but you got it backwards. Film is the old
crutch. I totally understand why some people like film better but
it is just ignorant to try to tell somebody else how they should or
shouldn't use digital.

--
Ed C.
Ed, I shoot much more digital than film, so I'm no stranger to it, but when it's Velvia I wan't, I shoot Velvia. I've given up trying to make my DSLR mimic this legendary film's character. Of course, most of my Velvia shooting is 4x5, so the DSLR is not really an option for my subjects that require Velvia. But, even in small format, I still use it when I wan't its unique look.

For example, shooting on overcast days, Velvia's warmth and saturation, are almost impossible to match with digital. You can get close, but it's tough and the results are still not the same. Truthfully, even the new RVP100 is not the same, which is why my freezer is stocked with quite a few sheets (and rolls) of RVP50.

And, by the way, film is far from a crutch, certainly not Velvia. It's a very challenging medium to use as you have no margin for error, no chance for a salvage after the shot is taken. You have no LCD to rely upon and no RAW file to work over endlessly in Capture. You either get it right when the shutter is tripped, or you don't. In 4x5, the chances for error are magnified tremendously, but the results are more than worth it when it all works out. Velvia on a light box has no match in the digital world.
 
Ed

First, having lived in a Communist country makes me break out in hives when I read some comments like your's Ed. You use your precious freedom to throw away your choices???

Camera, 8+ Gs for a digital cam, buys a lot of processed Velvia! I have the cameras and lenses that see true(ie... no crop factor) I reather be behind the camera, than front of the computer... though it seems to be out of vogue.

Computers are just one of the many "tools" you require to "develope" your digital files and each of the critical equipment has to be colour synced, and that cost money too...one misstep and your precious "actions" make one hell of a digital mess!

Ed, Anders too...Second, I made my comment as a jest after having completed a digital job.

Third, I have very little hostility towards those who promote digital workflow, though everybody seems to get offended at my handle and opinions gained by frustrating experiences with the digital capture and pointless atempts to get the "right" printouts.

I loved the line of "digital shooters keep reaping the inexpensive benefit of having their photos the way they like them."...:)

Anders, really... have you thought of spending nearly one half of the cost of your camera on profilling the beast???And get all the colour and contrast right the first time in camera?
Tony K
 
Gentlemen,

Let us please stick to the subject. Both film and digital are great tools, but different ones. Before film there were paintings portraiting landscape etc. I am sure those artists saw reason to complain because they did not embrace the creativity of the new technology, but please that is not the subject of this thread!

The media that I ask about here is digital and my D200. I wish to enhance the appearance more to my liking. That is based on artistic values, although I am forced to dive into technical aspects because the camera does not come with - in my preference - simple ways to arrive at pleasant results. It is chocking to find out that only Capture NX is able to read camera settings such as custom tone curve, sharpening, hue etc. That does leave little use for other RAW converters in a proper digital workflow, at least for me.

I sincerely appreciate any more comments on the subject: how to in simple way arrive at Veliva like results. That refers to high quality such, using in camera settings, Capture NX conversions, and/or PS CS2 work.

Much kind thanks!

Regards, Anders
--
EXPAT WITH A HOBBY
Photo Aspiration - Artistic Pointing of Camera at Natural Light
Engineer and Architect - Aspiration of Arts in Technology
 
Well I always took this to be his Velvia curve. I could be wrong.
I'd heard all his e-books had this "Velvia" type curve, so I
figured this was it. If it's not and there's something else, I'd
love to know. Nevertheless, I love the look of this one. Have you
tried it?
Okay, I'm going to "parse every word" again ; )

Curves are different than Actions. I supply a Velvia Action for Photoshop with the current eBooks, and I supply two basic tone-adjusting Curves that can be loaded to the cameras via Nikon Capture (or Nikon Camera Control Pro these days).

A "Curve" doesn't speak to color saturation (though it can alter colors slightly). Nor does it speak to sharpness. My "Action" specifically attempts to mimic Velvia's color response and steep drop to black (but also wouldn't impact actual sharpness--some perceive rich black shadows as "sharpness," though).

As to the issue of Velvia color versus "good color," some will find Velvia to be what they like (perhaps because they've been conditioned to its colors through magazine reproduction of photos), others won't. The point of a DSLR is take back control and adopt your own settings the way you want them. Indeed, we have more control today than we did in the waning days of film (though I suspect this may not last).

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide & Nikon Flash Guide
editor, Nikon DSLR Report
author, Complete Guides: D50, D70, D100, D200, D1 series, D2h, D2x, S2 Pro
http://www.bythom.com
 
If you want to write your own Velvia action, a good place to start
is with a layers manipulation. First, duplicate the background
layer, then change the setting for the duplicate layer to Overlay.
Yikes! It's going to look ridiculously contrasty. So set the
opacity of the duplicate layer at something between 20% - 50%.
With that opacity reduction, your image will be showing a decent
facsimile of Velvia's characteristic ramp to black in the shadows
and crazy-but-gorgeous saturation.
Technically, no. While you've changed the tonal ramps, you haven't
done it the way Velvia worked. Basically, Velvia dumped to a real
black with no toe response at about 2.5 stops below middle gray.
The best way to duplicate this is with a Curve to kill the low
shadow response.
Beyond this, you'll need to
make a saturation change to the top duplicate layer (pump up the
yellow, red and blue individually, till you like the look of what
you're getting).
Again, it's more subtle than that. The traditional Fujifilm color
response is a two-direction Hue shift (Reds to Yellow, Greens to
Yellow, which are opposing shifts). In addition, the blue response
is decidedly magenta/violet.
I'm describing digital Velvia-fication crudely,
Yep. When I developed my Velvia action I took a spectral analysis
of the film and tried to figure out the simplest way of duplicating
it (assuming, of course, that the original digital file from the
camera was color neutral ; ). Most people think of Velvia just as
"high contrast saturated colors," but it is much different than
that description, actually. Astonishingly, I've found a lot of pro
photographers who were using Velvia that didn't understand how it
was capturing color and tonal ramps. They just liked the results,
apparently.
Eaxactly why I used the Velvia curve you provided in the D200 e-book. The entire e-book has taken quite a bit of the mystery out of my D200. Thanks!
--
http://www.pbase.com/Troye413
 
This thread has much helped me with a direction. Lets keep in mind that we cannot exactly replicate Velvia 50 in digital D200, but Velvia is what I prefer to use as reference because I like (qualities/) what I see in Velvia 50 film.

Now to my D200; I believe I am heading at in-camera using;

aRGB II
Hue -3
WB -2
Sharpening +1
E -0.7
sReala custom tone curve

(I do not have Thom's curve yet, but the curves are primiarily changes to tones, not to colors)

I have made some limited testing of different settings, but I much appreciate comments to above settings. Perhaps someone else is interested to try also?

Reasons to above settings are following;

Velvia 50 can be said to pleasingly saturate colors. Beyond the saturation, per in this thread and other sources, it posess following characters

"blue/red response tilts towards a violet/purple" - Thom Hogan
"slight shift toward red (and magenta in some situations)" Flask (Nikonians)
"shifts yellow and orange hues towards red" - Ken Rockwell by email

How do we replicate these shifts in D200? Anthony at Fuji SLR forum came up with a +3 Hue shift (D200 manual say "raising hue above 0"..."introduce a yellow cast, making colors that would be red at a setting of 0 degree appear increasingly orange"). That is a single shift of yellow cast, while it seems Velvia has more complexity. Velvia seem to have more shifts per above. In this thread was mentioned -3 Hue shift and WB 7100. That gives perhaps more complex shift, if not exactly like Velvia, more complex to the eye. More complex is good, because a single is too telling and revealing to the eye (compare just increasing saturation which is not Velvia). Specifying WB 7100 gives a fixed WB. By using -2 it is instead compensated and valid for more varying lighting conditions (not sure if it is identical to 7100 at daylight, but similar results).

E -0.7 may be large, but it brings more deep colors. Velvia has deep colors I think. Besides it is easier to in PS lighten and maintain detail than the opposite.

Next step is PS. TonUp seem more appealing to me than Nikon Capture NX. They are the ONLY ones who can read camera settings and custom tone curves!!!! I have played with both now. I did not get the batch processing in NX to work on my trial version, nor did I find a way to upload and download a custom curve with NX (perhaps licensed version is needed). Also, the fact that NX do not maintain last settings (e.g. JPG quality) in menus when saving a file was frustrating. And, TuneUp is not only very cheap, but it give more info on curves (numeric values as well as plots, great!). It also appear like a quality program. TuneUp though much would need an update to embed camera assigned color profiles, I could not find this! But, I simply assigned them when opening in PS CS2.

In regards to Thom's mention somewhere on DPreview of that "Velvia drops very rapidly to a rich black in the shadows", that can perhaps be fiddled with in CS2 curves using LAB and the lightness channel as is required for each photo (I will propably get Thom's D200 book, but mailing by CD takes time when I am in Korea, I am short on time!).

I also aim at for certain photos do light CS2 LAB to not only adjust the Lightness channel, but also to saturate the A and B channels. The Lightsrightsudio ( http://www.thelightsrightstudio.com/tutorials/GiveYourPhotosAVelviaTouch.pdf ) give a concise explaination of what is in further detail explained in Dan Margulis book Photoshop LAB Color.

Any comments please??? Is this the right direction? Comments to settings please!

I will travel to China to photoraph in middle of this coming week so any advise on the settings is most helpful!

Much kind thanks.

Regards, Anders
--
EXPAT WITH A HOBBY
Photo Aspiration - Artistic Pointing of Camera at Natural Light
Engineer and Architect - Aspiration of Arts in Technology
 
Just to add;

Per D200 manual "lowering hue below 0 would introduce a blue cast, making colors that would be red at a setting of 0 appear increasingly purple". Thus Hue -3, and WB -2 to bring more warmth away from blue cast.
 
Before going on photographic holiday travel I decided WB -2 was causing overly yellow/warm cast. I used WB-1 instead. Thus following settings.

aRGB II
Hue -3
WB -1
Sharpening +1
E -0.7 or -0.3 depending on what appeared well in field.
sReala custom tone curve

Well back I observe that green colors are overly saturated. Perhaps it is well to reduce saturation setting in camera also.

If anyone has advise I appreciate. The question is now how to best post process it. I have not yet settled on the best professional tool. PS CS2 is the graphic and photographic standard it seems (and I have it), but it requires too many menu choices I think, although it does give the benefit to also work in LAB colors. Any advise? I am seeking very high quality professional results with simple steps to reduce computer time.

Much thanks!

Regards
Anders
--
EXPAT WITH A HOBBY
Photo Aspiration - Artistic Pointing of Camera at Natural Light
Engineer and Architect - Aspiration of Arts in Technology
 
"...Thom can't seem to grasp that all you are asking for is a way to get Velvia-like color and sharpness from your camera. It seems he must condescendingly parse every little word and phrase..."

If all you wanted was velvia-like color and sharpness just use the UNSHARP MASK and Saturation controls for goodness sake. As Thom already mentioned, this is a PRO forum and people here are more technically inclined and thus Thom responded as such.

Sheesh!

:)

cheers,
CJ
 
To me, you can try to imitate it all you want, but nothing really compares to the richness, depth, and razor edge sharpness of photos shot with Velvia, especially for fall foliage. Unfortunately, Velvia 50 is on it's way out, but 100 seems about as good with the extra speed. I've viewed tons of digital fall photoe, and they just aren't the same. For other purposes (people pictures), it's not so good for the the same reason. As long as they keep making it, that's whay I'll mainly use for fall photography. It's sort of like comparing a sports car with automatic transmission to one with a great 5 speed. There are just times when the 5 speed is just flat out better.
 
Ehh... we all know Velvia is Velvia. I love it too. Digital is another media.

It is merely a known reference point that people understand here...
 

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