the best thing about leica

  • Thread starter Thread starter geesbert
  • Start date Start date
Sorry if I offended you, but I think it is rather strange how many
people put down film as if it were hard years of doing thier
laundry by hand. Digital makes me love it more, it is FAR from a
pain to deal with. Digital is great, but in the right hands, it
still pales compared to film.
I completely agree that film is not a pain, gives wonderful results and every photographer should experience this part of photography. It will make everyone better photographers to get familiar with film-based photography. I know this is a digital forum, but I like both.

Working with film is not a pain, it is just different, but once you scan it, it becomes digital just like digital capture, and can be manipulated just as easy.

McCluney Commercial Photography
 
Why can't we let each other make these choices for ourselves. If one wnats to still use film, more power to them. If one wants to do both, like me, let them be. If one does not want to use film as all, do not look down your Royal snotty noses at them.

Let all do as they want, there is plenty of room in this forum.

I guess I can not make a comment that film has become a pain to me with out ticking off the purist film users. That is sad.

--
Greg Gebhardt in
Jacksonville, Florida
D Two Xs
Leica M7
Leica M8 (preordered)
 
I can use a large format camera though, but I could't use a range finder camera?

I have never had to loan for any of the cars I have owned, nor for my home, all thanks to photography and I couldn't afford a Leica?

Suits me I guess.

Yours sincerely,

Guy FRANCOIS
 
The first camera I ever touched was a Yashica Minister D 700. Wasn't that a viewfinder camera, a far more difficult one to use than a Leica M-series camera?

Guy FRANCOIS
 
Why can't we let each other make these choices for ourselves. If
one wnats to still use film, more power to them. If one wants to do
both, like me, let them be. If one does not want to use film as
all, do not look down your Royal snotty noses at them.

Let all do as they want, there is plenty of room in this forum.

I guess I can not make a comment that film has become a pain to me
with out ticking off the purist film users. That is sad.
Oh Greg, it was what the OP said. He started about "The best thing about Leica and had to add his little "I'll never touch film again" cr@p to it, pointless and and lame. It was not pointed at you. I gots to blow this taco stand, my light is going to emerge and I need to get this shot. Both digital and film rigs in my bag......
 
I can use a large format camera though, but I could't use a range
finder camera?

I have never had to loan for any of the cars I have owned, nor for
my home, all thanks to photography and I couldn't afford a Leica?
Apparently.

Good Shooting,

Bill
 
is my M4 is still in use 36 years after I sold my soul to buy it. Like my 30 year old Linhof Technika, it looks a little rough on the edges but still sees a fair amount of use. The Linhof, because it now sports a scanback, is in daily use. The M4 probably only runs a few rolls per month.

My DSLRs, like my computers, change every 2 years. When I get a M8, I expect it will be my last Leica. Sure, whatever DSLR I'm working with at the time will see more use because I shoot for a living but whenever I reach for a camera for my personal work, it will be the Leica.

Buying the best is an investment that will pay-off in time.

Tom
 
The M-series were fragile compared to the sheer
ruggedness of the professional Nikon and Canon cameras. When your
income really depends on a camera, there is simply no other option.

Guy FRANCOIS
Brussels - Belgium
--

this is not supported by fact. Nor by ancdotal evidance. I would greatly love to see on what evidence you base this remarkable statment. There are far greater number of older leicas in service being used every day than cameras from any other manufacture and this does not come from making fragil cameras. I dont mind your snit about Leica costing a lot but at least get your facts right. There are stories too numerous to mention of Leicas dropped off mountains run over by tanks left in the dryer etc. comming up working after incredible abuse I dont here many such accounts comming from canon or nikon or for that matter any other camera maker. There is a lot of room to criticize Leica but one of them is not for building fargil cameras.

So how about a little test lets take your top of the line nikon and say an m6 and drop them from a few feet and see which suffers the most damage. Put your money where your mouth is. Oh i see you wont bother the Leica forum any more hummmmmmm This post is obviously a troll or your a coward or both sneaking in here ranting and running. If your not interested in Leica why bother in the first place.

Oh yah and while I am at it. Being a pro photographer around here (dp review) and a buck will get you a cup of coffee. It only means you make money with your camera, it does not mean your not opinionated, it does not mean you know more than many amatures and it does not mean your a good photographer. we would have to see your work to decide that. So playing the pro card here means nothing.
bosjohn aka John Shick [email protected]
 
Because otherwise I'd be a coward or a troll (whatever that means).
That's a really nice choice of words.

Dropping a camera off a mountain will most likely result at best in the mount being killed, which makes your camera useless; letting it be run over by a tank will not do it much good either.

My experience and that of a lot of my colleagues is that internal parts break or fail to work and need expensive repair, same for Hasselblad. One of my friends left Hasselblad alone because of that. He has never had a single failure with his Nikon F-series cameras, nor have I (not a single failure that is). All that needed to be done was adjusting the shutter after about half a million cycles. So that is anecdotic evidence.

You are right when it comes to stating that Leicas are generally more fragile is not backed up by evidence. That's right, because to my knowledge there's no survey or statistics available for it.

There would be more Leicas in use than cameras from other brands. That, my friend is simply not true, because Nikons and Canons are being mass produced (that in itself is most of the time a guarantee for reliability - the Toyota Corolla is the world's most sold car and is also considered o be the most reiliable one). Do you know how many Nikon FM, FE-2, FM2, FM2N, FM3A, FG, FA, F2, F3, F4, F5, Nikkormats, etc. Canon A-1, AE-1, F1, etc, etc. are out there?
And now the main part of my reply:

I never said I was a good photographer. Besides, who's to decide about that, you, of all people?

I only have a degree in photography and I am proud of that. A course I took in another language than my mother tongue (not Dutch, nor English). You know what that means?

Besides the fact that you have to invest yourself to obtain such a degree( three years of study, every single day, I can for instance develop every single kind of film around, I can use studiolights and work with medium and large format cameras, and so on and so on), it also implies I was considered to be good enough to make a living out of photography, and by chance they were not wrong.

Being a photographer doesn't mean anything over here? I know lots of amateurs who would like to be professional photographers. I for one, was an amateur myself, and instead of considering myself up to par with the pros (which often have far less time to deliver decent work) I visited an exposition at the Brussels town hall and having seen the work of the students, I was overwhelmed by the sheer quality of the pictures. I stood really in awe. Wow, I thought, if they can teach me to make pictures like that, why not sign up and try to become a professional photographer and I did. I have never looked down upon amateurs, I only look up to people and try to learn from them and share my knowledge with them.

I am most certainly not the person you think I am. I am an educated man who does not deliberately want to offend anyone. There's too many good thngs in life - Leica is certainly one of them as HCB has sufficiently proven - to waste time on negative things. Photography should be fun and no one should consider him or herself offended by my post. I even tried to be humorous when replying to Dana and ended the post with 'Have fun taking pictures'.

My main concern with Leica is its price. It is too high, certainly when compared to a D200 for instance. I have never said Leica does not have its place and virtues.

Please try not to take all this too personal. Photography is a great hobby - no matter what gear you are using -, it still is for me (especially night photography).

So, best regards!

Guy FRANCOIS
 
Because otherwise I'd be a coward or a troll (whatever that means).
That's a really nice choice of words.

YOur still here so I gotta admit I was in error here I opologize.Trolls most often use the ploy "I just came here to bash Leica but I wont hang around for the comments" as I said your still here so I am obviously wrong. Having said that what set me off is your gratuitious attack on Leica you and hundreds of others. Did you read all the post is all the threads about the m8 all the negative posts are baisicly like yours. I think its over priced, collecters special, retro, etc, fill in the blanks. enough already the camera is already in production and your comments would have made more sense directed at Leica not us. I say us because you have presented yourself as an outsider on the Leica section I think
Dropping a camera off a mountain will most likely result at best in
the mount being killed, which makes your camera useless; letting it
be run over by a tank will not do it much good either.

These things do happen to cameras all the time Leicas far at least as well as any other in surviving these events that was my point.
My experience and that of a lot of my colleagues is that internal
parts break or fail to work and need expensive repair, same for
Hasselblad. One of my friends left Hasselblad alone because of
that. He has never had a single failure with his Nikon F-series
cameras, nor have I (not a single failure that is). All that needed
to be done was adjusting the shutter after about half a million
cycles. So that is anecdotic evidence.
I have been using Leicas and dang nearly all the other cameras regulary mentioned here for fifty years. I have never had a Leica fail. I have had to repar one I bought but none has ever let me down. I too do some pro photography and I have professional collegues and some of them do still use Leica m cameras. So thats why altho its nice your a working pro its irrelivant cus there are just as many working pros who dissagree with you here. And often its used to shut up others who are not pros by the "see I am a pro therefore I know more" type thinking and that isnt true. Pros are all over the spectrum in knowledge of the history and hardware of their craft, and there are many amatures out here who know just as much about photography and just becuse they are not pros they get relegated to the back burner by the oh and I am a pro statements.
There would be more Leicas in use than cameras from other brands.
That, my friend is simply not true, because Nikons and Canons are
being mass produced (that in itself is most of the time a guarantee
for reliability - Nonsense
I am a seconed hand camera dealer and I can tell you that I and all my collegues who do the PHSNE bi anual show buy and sell ten or more Leicas M to nikpn f, f2, etc. Its hard to find a good working f these days

M Leicas are pleantyful. And early canon f-1 are just not at the show so they have died or they are gethering dust someplace. Now I am not talking about collectabel Leicas here just good solid users. So by my own observation in the case of cameras from the late fifties through 1980 or there abouts there are far more leicas being used now than any of the nikons or canons or minoltas or pentaxes. I cant sell an old nikon I cant sell an old pentax I cant sell an old canon but I shure as heck can sell used serviceable M leicas.

There were 862600 nikon F's made between 1959 and 1974 and there were 371258 Leica Ms made between 1952 and 1974, but as stated above I am seeing ten to one M Leicas on the user used marked than the Nikon F Why cuse lots of nikon fs have been warn out lost or are gethering dust. I did however error in not stating I was refering to used cameras from a similar era to the nikon F because thats the camera you mentioned and for this I also opologize.
I never said I was a good photographer. Besides, who's to decide
about that, you, of all people?
I only have a degree in photography and I am proud of that.
Again I am not denigrating your carreer as a photographer I am questioning the mention of it used as the ace up the sleave so to speak.I think its disingenuous un fair and irrelivant to play the pro card in this kind of discussion. If we were discussing the needs of pro photogrphy and related subjects it would be more appropriate.
My main concern with Leica is its price. It is too high, certainly
when compared to a D200 for instance. I have never said Leica does
not have its place and virtues.
Ok now stop and think do you really believe that the folks at Leica arnt very concerned about building the camera they feel they need to build and get it built at the best price they can? YOu cannot make the m8 for 2000 not even in Japan. I am sure Leica has shaved the profit on this camera as much as they think possible to get belowe the five grand mark. and to compare with canon canons film rebel sells for 229 with a lens here in the us. The entry level dslr from canon around six or seven hundred depending on where you get it. thats at least two time the money for the d. The Leica m7 is about 3500 here and its only about 1300 more for the D so its only half again more expensive so who has the better deal? Leicas are expensive for a variety of reasons but cheapening the leica to see a 2000 dollars will just make it another also ran dslr and that would mean an even quicker end to the company.
Please try not to take all this too personal. Photography is a
great hobby - no matter what gear you are using -, it still is for
me (especially night photography).

So, best regards!
I dont take it very seriously really.
Guy FRANCOIS
--
bosjohn aka John Shick [email protected]
 
Yes, Leicas are extremely expensive and they definitely do not give the best bang for the buck. Does it mean that they are going to go bankrupt? Not necesserely. They are a niche camera makers at the moment and if they play it right, they can have a healthy business. It is not so wise to think that noone will buy Leicas just because they are expensive and Canon/Nikon cameras can do the job just fine for a lot less. There is a group of people who buys products NOT based on price, rather what they want and I can see plenty of opportunities for Leica.

--
Zalan Szabo
http://www.szabozalan.hu
 
They were on the very edge of bankruptcy. Selling more cameras is a good way to become (more) profitable. That's not my logic, that's economy's logic. Another way is to stay ahead in research and development, to move along with evolution.

Guy FRANCOIS
 

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