Why FF?

Feel free to buy me one.
You complained 17-40 was not wide enough, so feel free to sell 17-40 and buy 10-22.
Also I don't want any EF-S lenses because someday I plan on
replacing my camera with a FF camera. Making the EF-S lense a
waste of money.
I got it, you buying lenses not for taking pictures, but as an investment? In that case it is good point, same as " I don't want any BP-511 spare batteries because someday I plan on replacing my camera with a FF camera," or " I don't want BG-E2 grip because someday I plan on replacing my camera with a FF camera."
BTW, what are you going to do with your 20D when you buy FF camera?
 
Two common mistakes here :-

1) The ONLY reason that crop has an advantage in corners is because it throws away much of the image circle of a FF lens. Custom crop lenses (like the 10-22) have a much smaller image circle and you get soft corners again.

2) When you need sharp corners you can pretty well always stop down. Very few landscapes are shot at f2.8. Most portraits are trying to achieve OOF areas around the subject (bokeh) so you don't care if the corners are a bit softer.
I misunderstood you, sorry.
Did you anderstand what I said about soft corners of FF lenses on
FF cameras as oppose to FF lenses on cropped cameras?
 
Two common mistakes here :-
R
1) The ONLY reason that crop has an advantage in corners is because
it throws away much of the image circle of a FF lens.
That's exactly what I said: FF lens soft corners cropped by 1.6x sensor.
2) When you need sharp corners you can pretty well always stop
down.
Check MTF of almost any EF lens and look at blue thin lines, that's a sharpness @ F8. It fells after 13mm on almoat every lens significantly. So even stopped down EF lens on FF will not give you corners as good as on 1.6x.
 
Feel free to buy me one.
You complained 17-40 was not wide enough, so feel free to sell
17-40 and buy 10-22.
But the 17-40 makes a nice standard zoom on a crop camera (27-65 effective).
Also I don't want any EF-S lenses because someday I plan on
replacing my camera with a FF camera. Making the EF-S lense a
waste of money.
I got it, you buying lenses not for taking pictures, but as an
investment? In that case it is good point, same as " I don't want
any BP-511 spare batteries because someday I plan on replacing my
camera with a FF camera," or " I don't want BG-E2 grip because
someday I plan on replacing my camera with a FF camera."
BTW, what are you going to do with your 20D when you buy FF camera?
Given that batteries are cheap and only last for a couple of years if you use them or not (lithium-ion cells have a short shelf life) who cairs what you buy. On the other hand a good lens can last you for a decade or more and is a good deal more expensive. A Sigma 12-24 will give you decently wide on a crop camera and truely wide when you move to FF. Planning ahead seems fairly sensible.
 
Now you're acting plain silly. We're talking a couple of years
before the xxD models are nolonger APS-C.
Nope. Why don't we talk about 1.6x sensors in couple of years surpass in IQ current FF ones?
 
Your gallery of monsoon wildflowers is nice. Are they still blooming and can you recommend a specific area? - Thanks!
 
In 10 years, I bet that EVF will surpass optical finders.
Well, I was told that 10 years ago. ;)

I think a well thought combination of ovf and (embedded) digital information (via lcd, oled, etc.) might be the way to go. The Nikon's approach of grid lines and some minor stuff in the viewfinder is just the beginning...

It's a shame that my 20D not even has ISO in it's viewfinder. Canon, was this so hard to make in the 21st (high-tech) century?
 
Two common mistakes here :-
1) The ONLY reason that crop has an advantage in corners is because
it throws away much of the image circle of a FF lens.
That's exactly what I said: FF lens soft corners cropped by 1.6x
sensor.
And you carefully ignored the point about crop lenses.
2) When you need sharp corners you can pretty well always stop
down.
Check MTF of almost any EF lens and look at blue thin lines, that's
a sharpness @ F8. It fells after 13mm on almoat every lens
significantly. So even stopped down EF lens on FF will not give you
corners as good as on 1.6x.
OK, here's the MTF of the 17-40 (and Canon don't have a great rep for wide lenses). An MTF of 50 is considered acceptable. The VERY extreme corners are an issue at F8. Chances are you'll be stopped down to f11 or f16 for landscape work anyway.



Here's the MTF for the 70-300 IS (a consumer lens) @ 70mm. Why do you think that corners are a problem here?

 
Hi Mike,
I've also found that using 17mm for stitching panoramics you'll
find "fish ey like" distortion. Makes panoramics harder to stitch.
Try capturing the individual pano images at slightly longer FL than the widest a lens is capable of. They will have not as much barrel distortion (the "fisheye effect") and will be easier to stitch. Will of course need more images (not much more, actually) to capture the whole pano, though.

--
Best regards,

Bruno Lobo.



http://www.pbase.com/brunobl
 
Thanks, took the words right out of my mouth...er...fingers =)
Feel free to buy me one.
You complained 17-40 was not wide enough, so feel free to sell
17-40 and buy 10-22.
But the 17-40 makes a nice standard zoom on a crop camera (27-65
effective).
Also I don't want any EF-S lenses because someday I plan on
replacing my camera with a FF camera. Making the EF-S lense a
waste of money.
I got it, you buying lenses not for taking pictures, but as an
investment? In that case it is good point, same as " I don't want
any BP-511 spare batteries because someday I plan on replacing my
camera with a FF camera," or " I don't want BG-E2 grip because
someday I plan on replacing my camera with a FF camera."
BTW, what are you going to do with your 20D when you buy FF camera?
Given that batteries are cheap and only last for a couple of years
if you use them or not (lithium-ion cells have a short shelf life)
who cairs what you buy. On the other hand a good lens can last you
for a decade or more and is a good deal more expensive. A Sigma
12-24 will give you decently wide on a crop camera and truely wide
when you move to FF. Planning ahead seems fairly sensible.
 
Thanks, the only problem is my pano head doesn't allow for multi rows, so if I zoom in I may not be getting the vertical FOV I want. But I will keep this in mind.
I've also found that using 17mm for stitching panoramics you'll
find "fish ey like" distortion. Makes panoramics harder to stitch.
Try capturing the individual pano images at slightly longer FL than
the widest a lens is capable of. They will have not as much barrel
distortion (the "fisheye effect") and will be easier to stitch.
Will of course need more images (not much more, actually) to
capture the whole pano, though.

--
Best regards,

Bruno Lobo.



http://www.pbase.com/brunobl
 
I got it, you buying lenses not for taking pictures, but as an
investment? In that case it is good point, same as " I don't want
any BP-511 spare batteries because someday I plan on replacing my
camera with a FF camera," or " I don't want BG-E2 grip because
someday I plan on replacing my camera with a FF camera."
I buy lenses based on what my current and possible future needs are. I try to make decisions that will save me money in the long run.
BTW, what are you going to do with your 20D when you buy FF camera?
Either a backup camera or give it to my wife.
 
17-40 MTF you shown does not have sharpness (thin) lines, but only contrast ones. On consumer zoom look at blue thin line beyond 13mm (corners on 1.6x), it falls below 0.4. Put this lens on 1.6x camera and MTF on extreme corners at F8 is still above 0.7.
 
I buy lenses based on what my current and possible future needs
are. I try to make decisions that will save me money in the long
run.
I'm buying the lenses which suit my needs the best today and there is nothing better as walk-around zoom for 1.6x today than 17-55/2.8 IS, and nothing wider among zooms, than 10-22. period. If tomorrow I decide to go FF I'll sell EF-S lenses the same way I'd sell 30D.
BTW, what are you going to do with your 20D when you buy FF camera?
Either a backup camera or give it to my wife. So, she or you would still be able to use EF-S lenses, like 10-22 or 17-55IS, right? Or you would prefer her to use not so wide on 1.6x 17-40 ?
 
25 years ago, almost all wedding photographers used
2¼. Now, they all use DSLR, FF or even cropped Nikons.
This is news to me! What format do you want me to use when I shoot your wedding? 1.6X crop, FF (1x) or 2 1/4 film?

;) Fran
 
...have lower noise than current FF.
Perhaps.
That day, FF sensor images will be yet cleaner.
No doubts about that. But I'm already completely satisfied with the noise level of 30D sensor, so I could not care less. My point is - cropped sensor will stay on advanced DSLRs.
 
That's certainly true right now, but are there any physical
limitations that would prevent smaller sensors from improving to
the extent that the additional size and weight of bodies and lenses
to support ff sensors returned little benefit?
Light comes in quanta. In other words, it's digital. You can't sense less than one photon. You can pack more photons into a smaller area by increasing the intensity of the light source, but for those of us who prefer to shoot with available light, that's not an option. The alternative, then is to capture more light with more area. Note that this is independent of sensor design.
--
http://www.pbase.com/victorengel/

 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top