Which is more dummy proof DSLR vs Ultrazoom?

I know this topic has been asked a hundred times (I’ve read the threads) but I’d like to ask, perhaps, a different question. I’m trying to decide between the Canon Digital Rebel XTi and the Panasonic FZ50. I’m also a very novice photographer having only used point and shoots.

Which camera (DSLR vs ultrazoom/superzoom) will take better pictures, out of the box, in auto mode?

I’m upgrading from a Canon Elph SD200 (2MP) and my main frustrations are shutter lag, poor low light performance, soft images that look terrible when blown up. I like taking pictures of social events (weddings, family events and soon-my new baby) and framing them. While I really plan on learning more about photography, I don’t know a whole lot right now.

Some people on this forum have the opinion that DSLR’s have steep learning curves and are only for those who are serious photographers. But it seems like the ultrazooms can be challenging to use (esp in low light) in order to get the right photos too. And I’m really not clear as to which camera has a shorter shutter lag (especially in low light).

Issues I don’t want to rehash include future slr lenses, potential photos with manual modes, size/portability, cost difference (I’m willing to splurge a little), auto iso/spot metering and advanced features, movie mode, LCD framing and zoom range (my wife has a 35-80mm and a 100-300 mm lens for her film Rebel already and I take mostly indoor photos).

I appreciate the advice. Thanks!
josh

ps I settled on these two models because my wife has a Canon Rebel (film) with accessories and the Panasonic seems like a solid model.

Pannys are noisy boxes, go for a S3IS ...

regards

The MUCH larger sensor in the XTi will give you much less noise at any comparable ISO speed from both camera's. and perhaps better detail at higher ISO's

In auto mode. just point, focus, compose and shoot. Just like the FZxx

Very simplified exlaination, without getting into pixel peeping or lens issues.

--
'Well, Good Luck With That' (SpongeBob SquarePants)

Peter



Enjoy your photography images, even if your wife doesn't ! ;-(
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If you want to shoot indoors, a superzoom is the last thing you want. Large zoom ranges (which are useless indoors and are generally not wide enough) decrease image quality. A 3x pocket cam would be better in that environment. The small sensors don't have the low light abilities of DSLRs. I don't know about the lenses you have there, but they don't sound expensive enough to lock you into the Canon system. A DSLR is a decent sized expenditure - you should try a few hands on at a store and see what you like.
--

We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it—and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again—and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold one any more. - Mark Twain

Thanks for the replies! This is my first post of my own on this forum.

Well, one lens came with her slr and she bought the other one used for $100-200. So no, I don't feel locked into the Rebel just because of that. And my brother in law has a Canon S3 and loves it. But the question, more than specific models, was which camera is easier for a novice to get good pics without having to tweak?

I'm still curious about shutter lag in low light since I'm guessing that the dSLR has a quicker autofocus that it will have a faster shutter lag. I could be wrong.

josh

uyman said:

But the question, more than specific models, was which camera
is easier for a novice to get good pics without having to tweak?

Click to expand...

Well, the point and shoots are easier to get good results out of - mainly for the "live preview" option. If the scene looks good through the lcd/evf, the picture will look good. With DSLR's the optical viewfinder looks great, but the shots will look different than what you see in the viewfinder. The depth of field is shallower as well, which makes getting correct focus much more difficult. As far as which DSLR gives the best results without tweaking - I don't know. I left the superzoom world partially because there were too few controls.

uyman said:

I'm still curious about shutter lag in low light since I'm guessing
that the dSLR has a quicker autofocus that it will have a faster
shutter lag. I could be wrong.

Click to expand...

Shutter lag between p&s and DSLR's is completely different. DSLR's focus much quicker. Beyond that, I think some p&s actually fire faster once focused than DSLR's (they don't have to wait for the mirror to swing up). The problem is that there is a delay between what your seeing on the lcd/evf which gets worse as the light level drops. If you anticipate the shot, prefocus, keep both eyes open and use the unobstructed eye to decide when to press the shutter, you can beat the DSLR's shutter lag. Of course the p&s won't have the same high ISO's, so in low light blur will be a greater enemy than shutter lag anyway.
--

We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it—and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again—and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold one any more. - Mark Twain

uyman said:

Thanks for the replies! This is my first post of my own on this
forum.

Well, one lens came with her slr and she bought the other one used
for $100-200. So no, I don't feel locked into the Rebel just
because of that. And my brother in law has a Canon S3 and loves
it. But the question, more than specific models, was which camera
is easier for a novice to get good pics without having to tweak?

I'm still curious about shutter lag in low light since I'm guessing
that the dSLR has a quicker autofocus that it will have a faster
shutter lag. I could be wrong.

josh

Click to expand...

If low light pictures are going to be a normal issue (with a new baby, you will be taking a lot of "baby" pictures (I did, 3 Cd's worth with a 2mp camera, for the first 2 years)

Then The XTi DSLR will serve you better. It has faster focusing, AND with F/2.8 lens's even better. It has the extra sensitivity crosshair center spot for quick low light focus without a focus assit lamp.

A good Tamron or Sigma 17-35 F/2.8 or 17-40 F/2.8 will afford you a nce 28-55 or 60 on the XTi. Perfect for baby pictures. And the combo won't cost you over $1,200 or so. Body $700.00 and lens $500.00 max

The 28-70's F/2.8's are great too. and offer a 38mm-105 range. a bit more usable at the tele end. But not as wide. Also about $400-$500.

You might try a Tamron 18-125 F/3.8-5.6 (28-200 on the XTi). But you will loss some lens speed at the tele end, But at ISO 400 or 800, should fair well. The XTi should be pretty clean ISO 800. Hell, my Canon D60 has halfway desent ISO 800 for most applacations. and the XTi is like 4th gerneration to the D60.

A good flash The 430ex should be more than enough power for your applacations.

--
'Well, Good Luck With That' (SpongeBob SquarePants)

Peter



Enjoy your photography images, even if your wife doesn't ! ;-(
http://laurence-photography.com/
http://www.pbase.com/peterarbib/
DSLR Camera used in profile.

GossCTP said:

Shutter lag between p&s and DSLR's is completely different. DSLR's
focus much quicker. Beyond that, I think some p&s actually fire
faster once focused than DSLR's (they don't have to wait for the
mirror to swing up).

Click to expand...

No compact I know of can rival a DSLR on speed of operation. The 400D has a mirror blackout time of 170ms. You don't have to wait long for the mirror to swing up!

To the OP, my 11 year old can handle my DSLR no problem. Just put it in auto, point and shoot. It really couldn't be easier.

probably the most difficult thing to get used to is the shallower DOF. It is also a very good reason buy a DSLR, but you will find that sometimes DOF can be shallow enough that you will only get one eye in focus, of course this depends upon the lens used.

In my experiance a DSLR is more prone to camera shake...it seem easier to get blur at lower shutter speed. I think one big part of this is flipping mirror causes the camera to jump some. A lot of DSLRs come with an auto mode though, so as long as you are careful to make sure you have good focus and are aware of your shutter speed you should be fine.

Example of shallow DOF. I like how the background is blurred, but you have to get the focus exactly right(on eyes, etc.) or the picture will be no good. It should be noted though, that kit lenses and most other lenses do not produce this shallow of DOF, but it is still something to be aware of.



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John Doyle said:

No compact I know of can rival a DSLR on speed of operation. The
400D has a mirror blackout time of 170ms. You don't have to wait
long for the mirror to swing up!

Click to expand...

The Sony R1 has an advertised delay of 7.5ms.

OK, so that's not really a compact...

Here's a digicam from 2002 with a 70ms shutter delay
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2002_reviews/nikon5700_pg6.html

The delay in any case is less than human reaction time, but the slowness of the p&s cameras is generally misattributed to the shutter IMO when it is really focus speed and the video delay on the EVF.

--

We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it—and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again—and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold one any more. - Mark Twain

I don't know what the steep learnign curve DSLR business is. You can run it in full on auto and it is pretty much a big P&S. I kicked mine over into Aperture priority the minute I got it and never looked back. Sure there are lots of things you can adjust, but you don't have to mess with them, and many are set it and forget it.

The only thing that is tricky I suppose is I feel like you need to keep more of an eye on shutter speed with a dslr, although I could just have gotten pickier about image quality in the mean time (I had never looked at any of my P&S shots at 100%)
--



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http://www.pbase.com/poliscijustin

uyman wrote:
.

uyman said:

Which camera (DSLR vs ultrazoom/superzoom) will take better
pictures, out of the box, in auto mode?

I’m upgrading from a Canon Elph SD200 (2MP)

Click to expand...

You need Elph Ultra Zoom version
Ask Canon to build one for you

for your needs the way you describe them, the Canon will probably be better suited.
--
Anders

Some of my pictures can be seen at;
http://teamexcalibur.se/US/usindex.html

event photography and photo journalism

Well, I'm starting to learn about cameras.

Can't you compensate for a shallower Depth of Field by using Aperature mode and setting it smaller?

What I read on these forums is that some people were saying that if you couldn't use a manual mode you may as well stick with a cell phone camera (I did read that here). My brother (who has used manual slr's and develops his own photos etc) says that the focus of DSLR's is on the manual modes and that the auto modes aren't very good. He said the auto modes on P&S's are better than the manual modes on DSLR's. I don't believe him.

My wife who has taken classes and entered photo competitions and stuff has said that the auto modes are just fine.

I just didn't want to hope for something I wouldn't get. I know whatever I get will be better than my 4 year old canon. (which did last me 10,000 photos or so). I love taking pictures.

uyman said:

What I read on these forums is that some people were saying that if
you couldn't use a manual mode you may as well stick with a cell
phone camera (I did read that here).

Click to expand...

You can read anything and everything here!

uyman said:

My brother (who has used
manual slr's and develops his own photos etc) says that the focus
of DSLR's is on the manual modes and that the auto modes aren't
very good. He said the auto modes on P&S's are better than the
manual modes on DSLR's. I don't believe him.

Click to expand...

Good. He's quite wrong.

uyman said:

My wife who has taken classes and entered photo competitions and
stuff has said that the auto modes are just fine.

Click to expand...

She's quite correct. It's good that you didn't marry your brother! ;-)

uyman said:

I just didn't want to hope for something I wouldn't get. I know
whatever I get will be better than my 4 year old canon. (which did
last me 10,000 photos or so). I love taking pictures.

Click to expand...

Note that ALL cameras are P&S cameras. That is, they ALL have some form of totally automatic mode that does everything except compose and push the shutter (and they are working on the robotic models that do EVERYTHING). Buy something that costs $500+ and you will have a tool that you can grow into...there are always a few pix that require a non-automatic mode.

I can tell that you are not a "dummy", so don't listen to advice from "idiots"... ;-)

--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700 & Sony R1
CATS #25
PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htm
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
'I brake for pixels...'

Thanks for the advice on lenses. I'm going to refer to this.

This last May I was in a wedding of a good friend of mine. I gave my camera to my wife. All she got was a bunch of shots of the couple after they walked by her as the shutter lag was so bad. She basically gave up. Our photos of the reception were almost useless (maybe one if five were tolerabe), they were either too blurry (due to motion blur) or to long of a delay. I guess maybe instead of saying shutter delay it's more of a flash charging delay or an autofocus delay.

The other shot I couldn't get was one of my extended family on the beach that my mom wanted to blow up to 8x10. It always seemed so fuzzy (or not sharp like some of the photos on this forum).

I do plan on getting a point and shoot also but I'm hoping the larger camera that I'm getting will fix both of these scenarios.

As a former FZ20 panasonic owner, I upgraded to Nikon D70s and It Is far superior to me.

As others have stated you can just set the camera to Auto modes for point and shoot, but the larger senser and superior glass options are well worth it. Low light and Iso noise SUCK in point and shoots

just my 2 cents

--
Ed in Arizona

http://arizonadaze.smugmug.com

It looks like you're in that very difficult area with regards to which camera to use because occasionally you need to be able to take the kind of difficult lighting and lag-free shots that pros produce at weddings. Could it be like it would be with a car if only occasionally you needed to have a big people carrier/van but mostly there are just the two of you? This would mean you losing out of the enjoyment from having a smaller, simpler, more fun type of car because once in a while you may need the bigger one?

It looks like what you need as a family is a Canon DSLR body that both you and your wife can use. In the meantime simply update that little Elph/Ixus to its latest incarnation and learn to use focus, exposure and flash exposure lock in difficult situations. This will cut the lag time enormously and you'll enjoy the crucial benefit of having a camera that is able to be with you at all times. I've still kept my 4mp Ixus s400 and use it quite a lot even now I have a DSLR. It took this rather difficult shot the other day too:



--
John.

Yes you can, it is just something you need to be more aware of with a DSLR... it sounds like you are interested in learning more about photography and I would suggest a DSLR for that. As long as you have a little understanding of shutter speeds on camera shake, and the effect of aperture on depth of field you will be off to a good start... most entry level DSLRs are very simple to understand menu/settings wise too, the pro DSLRs have a lot of custom functions and whatnot, but the entry level are designed to get people started so they dont get too frustrated trying to learn it.
--



http://www.geocities.com/wild_tiger_1

http://flickr.com/photos/selrahcharles/

Whats more important to you? Taking photographs that have great image quality, or taking photographs that are quality images?