FZ50 highly recommended...

Kurt Horsley · Sep 8, 2006

1971_M5 said:
Hey...the FZ50 has defined a new rating category!

Do you think there will ever be another review with the "just" tag?

Actually, I thought it was a fine review and everything stated was
accurate and balanced. But when you think back to the FZ30 review
and contrast that with the current FZ50 review, I believe the frame
of reference has been adjusted -- in a positive way. Let's judge
the FZ50 (any camera) relative to WHAT IT IS -- not against some
absolute. The FZ30 review was not positioned in the same manner.
If it had been, then we would probably NOT have been giving the
DPReview folks (Simon/Phil) so many elbows in the ribs over the
past year!

Again, good review IMO.

Hey everyone! Have FUN with your FZ's!! They are great cams!

--
JF

--Actually, Simon did a very good job "directly comparing" the fz30 with the fz50. Subjective judgement about the two reviews are not necessary. Images from both are available for direct comparison.
-Kurt Horsley

alien3333 · Sep 8, 2006

sounds like we all have to order fz50 now.

alien

Copusmaximus said:
He must have felt the pressure
--
If I have uploaded an image don't hesitate to de-noise it, correct
the WB, clone out dust and dead pixels, saturation, USM, resize,
print and send me the result..
Also advice and criticise.

Kind Rgds

Heath

(The Amateur amateur in training)
LX1
FZ30
S7000(in sons hands now(sometimes))
Tcon17
Raynox DCR 150 & DCR 250 Mcon40
Nikon SB24+omnibounce
Tripod
CamCane

exp1orer · Sep 8, 2006

...when i read the comparison of the two specially in iso1600 photos.

Gerd Gldenast said:
Hello dear friends,

thanks Simon and Phil for this very intense review. You must have
spent a lo of time with this camera and must have even taken it to
bed with you to explore into the depth you are presenting to us in
this review. Well done folks!

The HR ist justified i think, even if Barry thinks otherwise. But
as he always points out ... every one has a mind of his own and his
own priorities, when it comes down to judging cameras.

But there is one thing i would like to be teached by you or anyone.

In the comparison FZ50 vs. Fuji 9000 the review says, that the Fuji
is presenting a lot more detail. My point is: I can't really see a
big difference in details. Can someone point me to the parts of the
picture, where the 9x00 shows its big advantage over the fZ50 ?

--
exp1orer
The Power Of Dreams
http://www.exp1orer.com

ibejeremie · Sep 8, 2006

John Navas said:
ibejeremie wrote:
I think DPR has more weight than you give it credit for because it
influences early adopters and high-end users that have a big impact
on the market through recommendations to average consumers, as
companies have found out the hard way when they snub those early
adopters and high-end users.

I suppose you may be right on this point, I havent seen sales numbers broken down by types of consumers. My statement comes from my experience as a camera salesman at a big box retailer: I was the only one of fifteen that actually researched cameras, and guided customers appropriately and 95% of customers had no idea what they were looking at, and so, were easily guided by "more megapixel" salespeople.

John Navas said:
By that reasoning Panasonic should dump the expensive Leica lenses
and stick to cheap plastic, except that hasn't worked -- quite a
few consumers do care about the glass, especially early adopters
and high-end users.

I dont see how that follows. I doubt that having the leica lens decreases sales (perhaps slightly due to additional cost, but not significantly). The point I was trying to make (probably not very clearly) was that the overhead cost of designing, marketing, and manufacturing these cameras is shared among all purchasers. If the number of purchasers dropped significantly, the price would increase significantly. My theory relies on one assumption here: sales of FZ_ 's are made up in a significant part by "uninformed" consumers and, thus, sales would suffer greatly if megapixels were decreased.

John Navas said:
John Navas said:

Lets all stop judging DPR's ability to review; they do a fine job.
We should be happy that DPR provides us with these reviews in the
first place.

Click to expand...

Sure, but doesn't mean we shouldn't judge them -- to do otherwise
would be to abandon our own responsibilities.
--
Best regards,
John Navas
DMC-FZ5K

I worded that poorly, you are right. I should have said: lets not judge them unfairly. People are often hypercritical of the final ratings in these reviews. And regardless of what we feel about the final ratings, we should still be happy to be getting such thorough reviews in the first place.

-Jeremy

spider227489 · Sep 8, 2006

Already have one.

Brownie Hawkeye complete with flash and a roll of film and flash bulbs, the large ones. Had it for many years - about 50 years.

Also have an Argus C3 with film.

henkster said:
A Kodak Brownie?

Newbie123 · Sep 8, 2006

If I am Simon, I will Give FZ50 Recommended Only.

I can Give highly Recommended if panasonic Release the Firmware update, with improvements:

Reduce the Default NR setting to lower. Maybe 1 or 2 level.

By doing that FZ50 will give better image to almost all user.

So, lets wait or Ask Panasonic to release the firmware update to reduce the NR.

Two Hands · Sep 8, 2006

Simon. Did you take all your sample pictures with the noise reduction set to normal. And if so, what was the reason to do this?

The exif info gives all settings (normal) but not the amount of noise reduction that was applied. In your review you say: " I'd advise leaving the noise reduction, sharpness and contrast settings to low if you want the cleanest images and don't mind doing a little post-processing."

So why not the optimum (low) settings for your sample pictures ?

And last but not least, Thank you for this review. I was really looking forward to it. You did a great job!

whippingboy · Sep 8, 2006

"for a co-worker or friend, I'd still recommend the fz30 over the 50. so to me, the 30 gets the HR and the 50 gets a regular old R rating.
heh

--
Bryan (pics only: http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works )
~~(pics and more: http://www.netstuff.org ) ~ "~~

LOL! I'm glad I'm not that friend of yours!

Look at the review pics of FZ30vs 50 - ANY OF THEM. Look at the BLACK- even using neatimage or noise ninja the black or low light areas are a multicolored area of mud. I don't care HOW venus 3 does it- from a non pixel peeper- whether I print an 8x10 (rarely) a 4x6, put it on my laptop as a desktop image, or use it in a 16:9 slideshow on my HDTV- HANDS DOWN those FZ50 samples right out of the camera are NO CONTEST better to the general consumer.

Like it or not- the audience for this camera is a gerneral consumer 1st.

As much as I love photography, I have no patience for changing lenses, hiking w/ all that weighty glass (I can't imagine a CMOS sensor cam w/ 70-300mm lens on a hike) dust on a sensor...I can go on- SURE I'd love better iso- but at least they did SOMETHING, where the FZ30 DID NOTHING- they stopped down the lens AND gave you no better iso! THAT was unforgiveable to me! At least now w/ the F3.7 at full zoom you have a better iso 200 and 400 than the 30! And blacks now look black- not a colorful noisy mess!

Yes, the 50 is FAR FAR from perfect- and I will never say Panasonic (or any camera manufacturer) went ENOUGH in an upgrade- (Heck even new cameras like the Sony Alpha- NO control dial? What were they smoking?) But the 50 improves A LOT of issues both in function and image appearance- they just didn't do it the way we all dreamed they would.

So do you kick them down a flight of stairs in a review because of this?

Here's the facts:
1. improved iso
2. improved noise
3. improved handling (custom and function buttons, full range of motion LCD)
4. improved video
5. improved battery life
6. improved SD capacity (SDHC)

7. improved exposure metering (in my opinion based on the studio test pics FZ30 vs. 50-images no longer overly vibrant)

8. additional MP may not be needed for some in larger pictures- but for me, I love 16:9 and shoot that with my FZ20! That's less than a 4mp image! With a 10mp sensor- I have much greater mp at that cropped perspective- and now EZ added optical zoom range!
9. TTL flash support

I'm sure I'm missing some things- but that's WAY MORE features than the FZ30 offered over the 20- aside from the mechanical zoom / new body- you got Raw (slow write speed and did not support the higest speed cards!) and finally 30fps video, and EZ mode-which was a joke for many of us who had to dig through menus to switch it on and off!

I don't expect ANYONE to see it from my point of view- but at least you now see one poster's impression of this camera- sure, I'd LOVE ISO as good as that Canon 350 pic at 1600 - but slap a tamron F4 70-300 zoom (and how much are those- and how heavy?) now what does that 1600 studio shot look like? I'd love a bigger R1 size sensor and I'd gladly pay $999 for a camera that did all this (28mm would be a great start too) But at that price we all know they'd have a harder time.

--
Check out my FZ galleries: http://www.brandondj.smugmug.com/

BLanam · Sep 8, 2006

In my Opinion, Simon's review was complete, concise (as could be), clear and unbiased. He compared Apples to Apples and even to some Oranges as required. It looks like DPR went out of their way to keep the emotion out of the review and focus on data and typical usage.

I had been struggling with the decision of the FZ50 v. spending more on an entry level DSLR. Well, thanks to input from many on this and the Pentax forums, I too, bought the K100D. I anticipated that Simon's review would have a result close to what it was, i.e. good performance, great images at good light/low ISO and great handling, flexible, live view, articulating screen, etc.

I received the K100D, Sigma 17-70 f/2.8-4.5 DC Macro and the Af 540 fgz flash. The Tamron 28-300 F/3.5-6.3 XR Di hasn't arrived yet. The K100D and Flash work well with my older Pentax A lenses. So far, I am extremely pleased (even w/ISO 800 & for the right conditions 1600-3200), yet will never know what I've missed not having the Panny. The investiment is close to $1,700 vs the $1,000 planned to equip the Panny with flash and converter lenses.

I bought the Orange, instead of the Apple.

digital_ray_of_light · Sep 8, 2006

Sites like to give summary ratings but obviously the only way to come up with an all-encompassing rating is to create an N-dimensional graph with all the major and minor factors plotted in. It works in math, but the human brain can't wrap around a 200-dimension graph

What really matters is the text of the review and the specifics of how a camera performs in the various tests/categories along with the measurables. The actual effectiveness of the camera varies from individual to individual depending on what one needs/wants the most and at what price.

On the political analysis side of it, a "HR" based on the positives encourages Panasonic to continue producing/improving the FZ-series, something I'm sure a lot of the users of this forum would like to see. Yes, there are issues with the FZ50, and yes I agree with the firmware update petition, but that shouldn't take away from the fact that the FZ50 tries to boldly go, it tries to offer something above and beyond, whereas the market-share leaders are releasing lower-spec'ed superzooms without even RAW (H5, S3-IS).

Copusmaximus said:
He must have felt the pressure
--
If I have uploaded an image don't hesitate to de-noise it, correct
the WB, clone out dust and dead pixels, saturation, USM, resize,
print and send me the result..
Also advice and criticise.

Kind Rgds

Heath

(The Amateur amateur in training)
LX1
FZ30
S7000(in sons hands now(sometimes))
Tcon17
Raynox DCR 150 & DCR 250 Mcon40
Nikon SB24+omnibounce
Tripod
CamCane

--
Comprehensive Photokina 2006 speculation: http://photographyetc.livejournal.com

linuxworks · Sep 8, 2006

whippingboy said:
"for a co-worker or friend, I'd still recommend the fz30 over the
50. so to me, the 30 gets the HR and the 50 gets a regular old R
rating.

LOL! I'm glad I'm not that friend of yours!

MY friends post-process, so they wouldn't have the fz50, I don't think.

(GRIN!)

whippingboy said:
Look at the review pics of FZ30vs 50 - ANY OF THEM. Look at the
BLACK- even using neatimage or noise ninja the black or low light
areas are a multicolored area of mud. I don't care HOW venus 3
does it- from a non pixel peeper- whether I print an 8x10 (rarely)
a 4x6, put it on my laptop as a desktop image, or use it in a 16:9
slideshow on my HDTV- HANDS DOWN those FZ50 samples right out of
the camera are NO CONTEST better to the general consumer.

out of the camera, yes. if you LEAVE it there, fz50 beats fz30 to the general eye. as has been said so many times before, already - if you plan to PP, the 30 is your camera. if you plan to shoot and then drive over to walgreens for some prints, the fz50 is probably as good or maybe even better.

I don't mind doing some work on the photos, if I know they'll be better for it. the fz50, I think it does too much 'to' the photos and the camera's job is to render data faithfully and not try to 'interpret' it and 'fix' it. it 'fixing things' is an effect I'd rather do without.

whippingboy said:
Like it or not- the audience for this camera is a gerneral consumer
1st.

who is to say what this 'consumer' does with their pics, though? for those that want quick prints, again, the very processed look of the 50 might suit them fine and definitely WILL save them time, no question about it. and I'll admit, for many, that's a big win.

whippingboy said:
So do you kick them down a flight of stairs in a review because of
this?

if I used the fz30, I could get a few more frames in of them falling, though!

(ha!)

whippingboy said:
Here's the facts:
1. improved iso

yes, sort of. but it wasn't free, and so I don't consider it a fair trade.

whippingboy said:
2. improved noise

disagree. trade arms for hostages. erh, I mean, trade artifacts for noise.

whippingboy said:
3. improved handling (custom and function buttons, full range of
motion LCD)

agreed!

whippingboy said:
4. improved video

not sure. I read user reports of the same old same old half-vertical resolution trick by pany again. which is it - is this time a real honest vertical resolution or is it faked like the fz30 was?

whippingboy said:
5. improved battery life

it seems so. if nothing else suffers, that's a good thing. they lowered their power needs - that's a good engineering accomplishment. very nice.

whippingboy said:
6. improved SD capacity (SDHC)

I'm not sure where I'm at, with regards to sdhc. if the 10MP were REAL honest usable pixels, then you start to need more storage, its true. but I'm not sure I see 10MP of 'value' in their 10. I'm not sure I see value in the 8 I have now, in the fz30, to be honest. 5 seems a good optimal number, especially for card storage AND time to copy files from cam to card and card to computer. 10MP = longer file i/o wait times and less photos per card. sdhc just keeps up with that, sort of. wash.

whippingboy said:
7. improved exposure metering (in my opinion based on the studio
test pics FZ30 vs. 50-images no longer overly vibrant)

I bracket and check, so that's not a big issue for me.

whippingboy said:
8. additional MP may not be needed for some in larger pictures- but
for me, I love 16:9 and shoot that with my FZ20! That's less than
a 4mp image! With a 10mp sensor- I have much greater mp at that
cropped perspective- and now EZ added optical zoom range!

from fz20 to fz30/50, its a big jump. fz30 already has that ez stuff. I got bored with that, to be honest. its a trick that helps people frame and visualize while shooting, but I'd much rather 'overgrab' and drop what I don't want, later, in the editing phase.

whippingboy said:
9. TTL flash support

yes, finally! but - big caveats - how much do they cost? so far, we've been getting by pretty cheaply with used sunpaks at $10 or so, via ebay. ttl is nice, but digicam means cheap and ttl flash usually means EXPENSIVE.

whippingboy said:
I'm sure I'm missing some things- but that's WAY MORE features than
the FZ30 offered over the 20

no way! I don't agree that your list at ALL shows the diff of fz20-fz30 vs fz30-fz50. even simon said that the 30 to 50 hop was extremely minor. it added some refinements, sure, but it DID sacrifice pic quality. again, to refer to simon, he addressed that in his review.

whippingboy said:
I don't expect ANYONE to see it from my point of view-

that's an interesting way to try to win arguments

whippingboy said:
but at least
you now see one poster's impression of this camera

I see your point. and for this poster, I'm very sure that the fz50 would offer me better creature comforts, but I am NOT willing to degrade my pics from 30 level to 50 level (heh). I HAVE seen what the 50 does to pics. at its worst, its unfixable. at its best, I can do the same thing with NI or NN.

--
Bryan (pics only: http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works )
~~(pics and more: http://www.netstuff.org ) ~~~

Copusmaximus · Sep 8, 2006

Brian Mosley said:
And while we're at it, I seem to remember this quote :

"A troll posts to provoke a response....I just give you my
view....people may well eat a few words after the reviews are
out..."

Yum yum... would you like a little salt with those words Barry?

LOL

Brian Mosley said:
Kind Regards

Brian

spider said:

Barry Fitzgerald said:

I shall have to be polite though!!! lol

--

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
--

http://www.gopetition.com/online/9523.html

--

If I have uploaded an image don't hesitate to de-noise it, correct the WB, clone out dust and dead pixels, saturation, USM, resize, print and send me the result..
Also advice and criticise.

Kind Rgds

Heath

(The Amateur amateur in training)
LX1
FZ30
S7000(in sons hands now(sometimes))
Tcon17
Raynox DCR 150 & DCR 250 Mcon40
Nikon SB24+omnibounce
Tripod
CamCane

Adam-T · Sep 9, 2006

Yep - the FZ7 and 30 should have been also but I guess Simon was going through a Noise Hate phase when he did those two.. the 7 was a Significant upgrade from the 5 ergonomically and functionality wise and the 30 even more so compared to the 20 but neither got the Highly Recommended.. the 50 is a very minor upgrade from the 30 in comparison..

I guess there are Politics involved here to a degree, Simon took quite a bashing over the final rating of the 7 and 30 - to be honest, it's a shame that people put so much importance in it, the "FZ50 got Highly Recommended Yaa Boo" threads highlight this perfectly

.

Sometimes I wonder if people from the forums here actually read the whole review at all but instead just look at the ISO crops, the Compared to last page and the Finale waiting in baited breath for the final rating - but then these reviews are for everyone on the net, not just the Fanboys and Bashers on these Forums..

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

kiwigirl · Sep 9, 2006

Barry Fitzgerald said:
Maybe I was expecting technology to move forward fast...doesnt seem
to have been the case.
--

Next years model will go out and take its own pictures, automatically download to your computer - and then present the prints to you, with a fresh cup of coffee while you enjoy!

lynxlea · Sep 9, 2006

i can even imagine, how pana give their pressure to Simon

i think if panasonic can focus more on r&d, they will get a better
word of mouth

--
2006 Lynx Award

Best Body Besign:Nikon S10; Best Battery:Sony T30
Best Aperture:Ricoh GR; Best Mpeg4 Quality:Samsung NV3

Simon Joinson · Sep 9, 2006

Barry Fitzgerald said:
thw said:

it shows a change in the criteria used in Phil and Simon's reviews.
In the past, it was image quality above everything else. At that
time, highly featured cameras like the A1, A2, A200 were penalized
because of their weak jpeg engines. But now, starting with the
review for the Nikon D2X (rather heavy noise reduction above ISO
400), camaera handling and features have become more important.
Hmmm....

-------------------------------------------
See the colors of my world in:
thw.smugmug.com
-------------------------------------------

Click to expand...

Handling is very important...it always was. Problem is what works
for one person, doesnt for another...its a hard area to judge.

Image quality...hmm well its a camera! Kinda important in my
books...not something to put on the back burner..

If I went out to buy a tasty hifi....I want it to sound good!
cameras are the same...image quality is the top area. If it
isnt..then we are all stuffed!

I think things have shifted here reviews wise...for the worse IMO..

--

If there had been a shift (which there hasn't) wouldn't the 20 page review be enough for the really obsessive IQ junkie to make their own mind up? I feel it would be wrong to give an AA to a camera that is as good as this because it doesn't meet MY criteria for image quality ( and i've pulled no punches in the review in this regard ). Whatever I do there is critisism (i marked the FZ30 down for minor IQ reasons and have never heard the end of it), and i feel the FZ50 is good enough to squeeze an HR - you don't; so don't buy one. Incidentally there is NO WAY manufacturers are going to drop out of the pixel race because of what we say. I wish!
S
--
Simon Joinson, dpreview.com

Simon Joinson · Sep 9, 2006

Two Hands said:
Simon. Did you take all your sample pictures with the noise
reduction set to normal. And if so, what was the reason to do this?

The exif info gives all settings (normal) but not the amount of
noise reduction that was applied. In your review you say: " I'd
advise leaving the noise reduction, sharpness and contrast settings
to low if you want the cleanest images and don't mind doing a
little post-processing."

So why not the optimum (low) settings for your sample pictures ?

And last but not least, Thank you for this review. I was really
looking forward to it. You did a great job!

It's our policy to leave such settings on default - always has been. I am considering a change in this policy in cases such as this, but for the casual visitor it may well give the wrong impression (setting everything to low requires you to do some post-processing. Maybe i'll start dropping a few in (with a note)

S
--
Simon Joinson, dpreview.com

Steve_ · Sep 9, 2006

Simon Joinson said:
Two Hands said:

So why not the optimum (low) settings for your sample pictures ?

And last but not least, Thank you for this review. I was really
looking forward to it. You did a great job!

Click to expand...

It's our policy to leave such settings on default - always has
been. I am considering a change in this policy in cases such as
this, but for the casual visitor it may well give the wrong
impression (setting everything to low requires you to do some
post-processing. Maybe i'll start dropping a few in (with a note)

S
--
Simon Joinson, dpreview.com

Thanks for keeping an open mind about 'policy', and for the consistantly excellent reviews. I'd not have bought my first Panasonic without your test pictures, not so much the recommendation involved.

I think we all know that ideally the output would look as good as resolution allows at 1:1, but a FZ50 will certainly make great images with careful application just the same. Your even and complete coverage certainly should give people an informed position from which to make buying decisions, as determined by their personal priorites.

--
Panasonic FZ5 and LZ3 pics - http://www.s90223656.onlinehome.us

Tuesday Zoom · Sep 9, 2006

rather nice if you let us know yer general mood at the time of yer 'review' work..you know the sort of thing...Well I got up this morning and tripped over the cat and nobody loves me when I'm down and out..the new DPR 'blues' song if ya like! Even more strident (perhaps) you could quote some Bonzo doo dah dog band lyrics to enamour all those American 'clients'! (and a few English speaking 'dingbats'!!
--
Every day is a zoom day.

Brian Mosley · Sep 9, 2006

Hi Newbie,

have you signed the petition yet?

http://www.gopetition.com/online/9523.html

Kind Regards

Brian

Newbie123 said:
If I am Simon, I will Give FZ50 Recommended Only.

I can Give highly Recommended if panasonic Release the Firmware
update, with improvements:

Reduce the Default NR setting to lower. Maybe 1 or 2 level.

By doing that FZ50 will give better image to almost all user.

So, lets wait or Ask Panasonic to release the firmware update to
reduce the NR.

--
--

http://www.gopetition.com/online/9523.html

FZ50 highly recommended...

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