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Who's Staying...Who's Leaving?...Cont.

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Bob,

Thanks for the advice. I'm always looking for good suggestions - especially when I'm moving to a totally new system.
 
Good idea to wait for Sony CMOS.

According to forum KM insider, KMSEA, Sony built a 10.3mp CMOS sensor that was actually installed in the 7Di units that were in transit to the market just before the KM pull out after which they mysteriously disappeared.

Here is the link

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1035&message=15778711

I don't know why SONY did not use them in the A100 since they have the same mp count and why no other company has picked them up but I am certain if you wait long enough, we will find out just what the deal was.
Bka314 said:
Where should I leave to?

I need good low-light capability, for an affordable price...
So... Canon CMOS or Minolta AS.

I need good ergonomics.
So... not the Rebel's handgrip :)

And who knows, maybe the next Sony will be the ideal low-light
camera: they make sensors, they could (can?) make CMOS too... so
what about a low-noise CMOS combined with AS? :)

However, as for me, for a year or two, sure I don't have money for
equipment. So I just stay with what I already have right now.

--
Kris
Click to expand...
--
.
http://dakanji.com

'I make statements based on fact not predictions.'
KMSEA: 12:33:17 PM, Saturday, November 12, 2005 (GMT)
 
Dayo said:
Good idea to wait for Sony CMOS.

According to forum KM insider, KMSEA, Sony built a 10.3mp CMOS
sensor that was actually installed in the 7Di units that were in
transit to the market just before the KM pull out after which they
mysteriously disappeared.

Here is the link

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1035&message=15778711

I don't know why SONY did not use them in the A100 since they have
the same mp count and why no other company has picked them up but I
am certain if you wait long enough, we will find out just what the
deal was.
Click to expand...
Right...and KMSEA was not a minolta fan who made stories up? One thing was certain...he sure didnt predict the KM sell out!

I had zero respect for his words....sorry. Maybe he did work for minolta...maybe he was the tea boy at board meetings..whats certain was even if he had good intentions..that he wasnt part of the management structure at KM.

--

 
Vance Zachary said:
I know what I see and can do now. Pros and serious amateurs are
leaving this camp in droves because the things Sony has planned for
the future are things you can get with other companies right now.

You are talking about the past. I am talking about the now and the
immediate future.

If you are an casual amateur, you can afford to wait but, if you
are a more serious camera user,...well, you have to decide for
yourself
Click to expand...
Vance, you're right but this is just a small window in time ... no different from the past several years when Minolta had substantially fewer offerings than C/N. If anything, the future looks more promising (aside from prospects for high ISO performance !) under Sony. So you could have been asking this question once a week for the last 5 years and continue to ask it for the foreseeable future, and every week a few people might say "me" ... but there's nothing special about this day or this week. If anything, I'd suggest fewer pros & serious amateurs using KM (if there are any !) are leaving now than in the past (the crazy market for used gear supports that) and more pros & serious amateurs are coming over or will be coming over than in the past.
  • Dennis
--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com
 
Ken_5D said:
AS in body... only Pentax not any of the leading brands
First DLSR with 10MP under $1000
Click to expand...
No big deal. The camera has been on the market for a month and everyone knows you'll be able to buy 10MP Nikon & Canon for even less very soon.
Ken_5D said:
Zeiss and Sony(KM) quality lenses
Click to expand...
No advantage there. Everyone makes good & bad lenses. In fact, the lens lineup is the single biggest knock I have against the Sony Alpha system right now. I would not buy an A100 right now comparing the lens lineup to Canons ... between the available models and their prices.
Ken_5D said:
What can I get with other companies now?
IS/ VR lenses that cost more and don't come in all ranges?
Click to expand...
Cost more ? Like the 70-210/2.8 ? And you forgot SSM. I've used a couple Canon & Nikon SSM (silent wave) lenses. I like 'em. It's nothing that would make me switch brands. It would seriously impact my decision if buying a new system.
Ken_5D said:
Maybe it is $200 extra for a wireless flash option you see as a
benefit now, except I don't think Sony is planning to make you pay
more for that in teh future.
Click to expand...
I don't think many people consider the Minolta flash system particularly advantageous these days, between the preflash reputation and the slow flash sync. I've rarely ever used wireless flash, but have used on-camera bounce & swivel ... Sony offers that for $449.
Ken_5D said:
Impatient people are leaving in droves...
Click to expand...
Impatient people have already left and I don't think Minolta had enough market share for anyone to have ever left in droves. That was (sort of) the point of my other post ... I don't think there's any great controversy here ... the potential for Maxxum users who want "bigger, better, best" is great right now than at any other time.
  • Dennis
--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com
 
Vance, I can't talk for the US, but in the UK pros are definately on the back burner as far as support goes. In the old KM days, I would just pop my camera up to Milton Keynes (where they were based) and get it back a couple of days later - nothing official, just they made an exception for working pros as long as we didn't abuse it...

As for Sony, spoke to them last week - oh, theres a backlog, any servicing will be several weeks..oh you're a pro that cant be without one of your cameras during the wedding season, yeh it will still be several weeks, maybe a couple of months so - don't send it in unless youy have to.

Needless to say, not very reassuring...I'm just hoping my current setup lasts until October as I don't want to learn a new system while still flat out shooting at least a couple of weddings a week.

Vance, maybe one to take off line, but I would be interested to know how easily you think it would be to swap to Canon and get truly familiar with the setup/controls - first impressions of a 20D a while back made me think I would spend the first few weeks incredibly frustrated and keep wanting to throw it through a window (and don't even get me started on what the 1DMkII made me want to do...) Is it more intuitive than it looks? Otherwise I'm probably heading D200 way, but I like the idea of a couple of 5Ds.

R.
Vance Zachary said:
How's it going?

I can't blame you for sticking it out a bit longer like I have.
But, I think we pros are on the back burner of Sony's plans

Time will tell.

--
Vance Zachary
http://www.pbase.com/photoworkszach
http://www.photoworksbyzachary.com
Click to expand...
 
Liberal editing to shorten the post, but not to lose context...
Ken_5D said:
Vance Zachary said:
I know what I see and can do now. Pros and serious amateurs are
leaving this camp in droves because the things Sony has planned for
the future are things you can get with other companies right now.
Click to expand...
It is also a human traight to try to blame problems on another
person or thing. A good photographer Amatuer or Pro has all the
tools they need in a 7D or 5D to create great images. If your
images are lacking on KM, you will not find better ones on Canon...

I have not seen a camera I want more than my KM 5D right now. That
includes a $599 7D or even a 30D. For features, image quality,
lens options all stablized there isn't a better system (7D/5D/A100).

I can't afford to be impatient. I will wait until there is clearly
a better camera for taking pictures, not just comparing spec sheets
and who is on the sidelines at a football game or pixel peeping.
Click to expand...
Ken, from my standpoint you have missed the point. I like my 7Ds and they currently meet my needs (just) and as a pro I'm not looking to move because of the camera (all else being equal I'd be using my 7Ds until probably next spring when they will be getting near the end of their life). It isn't a equipment thing that is causing me as a pro to be seriously thinking about leaving. It is a backup and support thing.

A scenario; go to a major event - Canon and Nikon will likely have support people on site to repair things there and then. Will Sony be there or will you have to post your camera away for a minor repair and wait upwards of a month to have it back? Not great if you need to selll the photos you take that afternoon/next day to pay your mortgage.

Another, I fly out to undertake an assignment for a client and some of my gear is nicked on the way. I can easily hire Canon/Nikon equipment in majority of big cities - if not I can get in touch with Canon/Nikon professional services and find out nearest supplier and be able to get it shipped. With Sony - hmmm, we will be bringing out our new lenses in a couple of months, so you can buy one then. Will they be offering global support for working pros? No sign of it as yet - quite the reverse if my experience is something to go by...

I could go on, but don't think I need to. Camera equipment is a tool, a means to an end. I don't get paid for having the best camera gear (otherwise I'd probably have a blad H2D 39 for what I shoot), I get paid for taking photos that my clients want. If I can't take that photo, I have problems and the support network is at least as important to me (and in the good ol KM days I never had a problem in the UK with the service - cameras yes, service no)

I know I didn't follow Vances explicit comment about the past/present state of things, but from a pro point of view the Sony system isn't currently very attractive - bodies / cameras / flash / service. From a consumer point of view it is and will attract people moving into SLRs for the first time.

Hopefully it will be better next year (it had better be if they want pro users)

R.
 
007peter said:
I also shoot with both system: Km5D and Canon 30D. I originally
kept the KM5D b/c I anticipate I will need time to readjust to the
Canon method. To my surprise, I adopted to the Canon 30D
overnight, and the longer I used the 30D, the more foreign my Km5D
has become.
Click to expand...
Hi Peter,

was surprised to read you have halve switched to Canon. Remember some posts back in spring, where you very much praised the 5D.

I'm always interested to look over the fence. And especially on reports of people who know the KM line as well.

So did you do some "what's better - what's worse" comparison after you used both systems for some time. If so please post a link. If not, would you mind doing one?

Thanks Cecco
 
Jose'

I agree this guy is good.

Uses angles,, lighting, and frames his subjects so unique..

That takes a good eye, lot's of practice.
 
I could not resist the $599 deal and $59 insurance polilcy from wally world.

I dropped my film camera with my 85 1.4 on it and it broke the lens shade and the camera lost it's power for a bit.

That scared me. So I said I need another dslr for backup, or for a second..I still will use my film, I love true b&w with the ff of the camera.

So I am set for a while now.

I will wait and see what Sony brings to the table.
 
Cecco said:
So did you do some "what's better - what's worse" comparison after you used both systems for some time. If so please post a link. If not, would you mind doing one?
Click to expand...
I never like the Canon RebelXT (grip feel + small LCD), which is why I went with the Minolta (better grip + 2.5" LCD). I didn't know anything about the lens @the time and I judge the superiority of the camera by its LCD SIZE: that means (#1) Pentax (#2) Minolta (#3) NikonD50 (4) CanonRebel.

But on May06, I've touch CANON 30D for the first time which complete changes my mind about the CANON. Read my thead title "I've touch evil for the first time...." here : http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=18326439

What I do like about the Canon are:

(1) much faster autofocus (..only apply to 20/30d, not the Rebel)
(2) almost all lens are USM (imaging SSM on all Minolta lens....)
(3) reliable AWB indoor or outdoor
(4) reliable EXTERNAL FLASH (my KM5600(d) either over/underexpose)
(5) New lens are immediately available world-wide.
(6) Used lens price are reasonable (...minolta ebay price is crazy)

(7) 85 F/1.8 USM (affordable portrait lens @$340) - not everyone wants to spend $1000 for a 85 f/1.4 G.

What I like about the Minolta

(1) Anti-shake on all Mnolta Zoom lens
(2) Anti-shake on all 3rd. party lens
(3) Anti-shake on all prime
(4) Bokeh (personal perference is Nikon#1/ Minolta#2/Canon #3)
(5) 2.5" LCD (compare against RebelXT's 1.8" and D50's 2")

What I don't like about the Minolta

(1) Expensive ebay lens price on good lens
(2) Very hard ( and almost impossible worldwide) to find new lens
(3) Very expensive accessories
(4) Unrelaible external flash & "lazy eyes"
(5) most indoor photo have an annoying "orange" cast.

(6) New Minolta lens lack the "bokeh" quality of older Minolta lens. The difference is night and day. Which explains the high-used-price on older Minolta lens ( which are metal and better made overall)

(7) Screw-type AF is slow when attach to telephoto lens [Sigma 70-300 DG APO or the Minolta 75-300]
 
I'm still waiting to see what will coming next.

I need to say that I'm disappointed with the "tempo" Sony is bringing products on the market. I had expected more aggressive approach from a company so powerful as Sony is. Now, as things are going we will need to wait for a year or two since the "KM-Sony" deal to get only what we had before when lenses and accessories are concerned (those 3 announced zeiss lenses seems nice but it's not enough !!).

If Sony will stay focused on low end market only and will not make clear their future plans in the next few months .. then I will leave (I love my 7D bodies but AFAIK if anything happens to them I can't count on repairs .. since this isn't a policy Sony support is giving :( ).

Leaving or staying is just one tough decision for me .. the second is .. where I may go since I don't like Canon (I work with 30D but this isn't the kind of body design I would like to have as my primary system) and Nikon seems a bit "stressed" too .. so .. there aren't really many choices :(

I still hope some rumours and "whispers" I did receive will come true and Sony will actually provide a more robust platform .. but I'm certainly not prepared to waiting for years ..

Happy shooting

--
http://www.dyxum.com - the world of the Minolta mount digital SLR
 
I just bought into the Wal-Mart $599 7D. Along with my 5D, I have 3 Minolta film bodies and a dozen lenses, so there is no need to abandon ship.
 
Pugwash said:
Ken_5D said:
Vance Zachary said:
I know what I see and can do now. Pros and serious amateurs are
leaving this camp in droves because the things Sony has planned for
the future are things you can get with other companies right now.
Click to expand...
It is also a human straight to try to blame problems on another
person or thing. A good photographer Amateur or Pro has all the
tools they need in a 7D or 5D to create great images. If your
images are lacking on KM, you will not find better ones on Canon...

I have not seen a camera I want more than my KM 5D right now.
That includes a $599 7D or even a 30D. For features, image quality,
lens options all stablized there isn't a better system (7D/5D/A100).

I can't afford to be impatient. I will wait until there is clearly
a better camera for taking pictures, not just comparing spec sheets
and who is on the sidelines at a football game or pixel peeping.
Click to expand...
Ken, from my standpoint you have missed the point. I like my 7Ds
and they currently meet my needs (just) and as a pro I'm not
looking to move because of the camera (all else being equal I'd be
using my 7Ds until probably next spring when they will be getting
near the end of their life). It isn't a equipment thing that is
causing me as a pro to be seriously thinking about leaving. It is a
backup and support thing.

A scenario; go to a major event - Canon and Nikon will likely have
support people on site to repair things there and then. Will Sony
be there or will you have to post your camera away for a minor
repair and wait upwards of a month to have it back? Not great if
you need to selll the photos you take that afternoon/next day to
pay your mortgage.

Another, I fly out to undertake an assignment for a client and some
of my gear is nicked on the way. I can easily hire Canon/Nikon
equipment in majority of big cities - if not I can get in touch
with Canon/Nikon professional services and find out nearest
supplier and be able to get it shipped. With Sony - hmmm, we will
be bringing out our new lenses in a couple of months, so you can
buy one then. Will they be offering global support for working
pros? No sign of it as yet - quite the reverse if my experience is
something to go by...

I could go on, but don't think I need to. Camera equipment is a
tool, a means to an end. I don't get paid for having the best
camera gear (otherwise I'd probably have a blad H2D 39 for what I
shoot), I get paid for taking photos that my clients want. If I
can't take that photo, I have problems and the support network is
at least as important to me (and in the good ol KM days I never had
a problem in the UK with the service - cameras yes, service no)

I know I didn't follow Vances explicit comment about the
past/present state of things, but from a pro point of view the Sony
system isn't currently very attractive - bodies / cameras / flash /
service. From a consumer point of view it is and will attract
people moving into SLRs for the first time.

Hopefully it will be better next year (it had better be if they
want pro users)

R.
Click to expand...
Your points are very valid and the kind of thing the Sony Product Management for the Alpha system needs to be looking at. And your plan to work with the camera until it needs to be replaced is a very professional attitude vs. the feature envy upgrade every new model a whine if it isn't perfect that we see sometimes.

What I am keying off of is there a quite a few people that seem more than willing to peg Sony with what they read on Slashdot about the Music division etc. And from what I can tell some even pretend to be about IQ but really just are after Sony and won't hold other makers to their silly pixel peeping noise obsession.

It is very clear that what you are talking about are Pro services, When Sony thinks it wants to challenge there, and they have the ability to do it. They will have to understand that aspect of the market.
------------
Ken - KM 5D
Sigma Trinity 10-20, 24-135 f2.8-4.5, 70-300 APO DG
http://www.cascadephotoworks.com
 
I'm 'still deciding' too. Dynamic range, flash without lazy eye, clean high ISO, and ease of handling are the most important issues for me. The K-M 5D can stay until it malfunctions, but I haven't found it to be as pleasing to use as I might have hoped, but then I'm an old fashioned dials rather than menus guy. Probably if I had to use the camera twice as much for work I might have changed already. You know, it really irritates me not to have a status LCD on the top plate, and no easy to use function dial; can't stand having to squint at menus in the middle of a shoot either. Nevertheless I like the Minolta colour a lot and so would miss it.
--

John.
 
john farrar said:
I'm 'still deciding' too. Dynamic range, flash without lazy eye,
clean high ISO, and ease of handling are the most important issues
for me. The K-M 5D can stay until it malfunctions, but I haven't
found it to be as pleasing to use as I might have hoped, but then
I'm an old fashioned dials rather than menus guy. Probably if I had
to use the camera twice as much for work I might have changed
already. You know, it really irritates me not to have a status LCD
on the top plate, and no easy to use function dial; can't stand
having to squint at menus in the middle of a shoot either.
Nevertheless I like the Minolta colour a lot and so would miss it.
Click to expand...
Maybe the 7D would be better for you. On the KM SLR forum there are reports of the 7D being sold for $599 now.

--
Henry Richardson
http://www.hrich.com
http://www.printroom.com/pro/intrepid
 
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