JW PHOTO
Senior Member
Lee, you are right, but that is with Canon AF lenses only. Put a Nikon lens on with an adapter and the only focus confirmation you have is your own eyes.
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No AI, No Sale
- Thread starter aroundomaha
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Grevture
Senior Member
It is no mystery. The D80 is a consumer camera, just like its predesseror D70, and AI metering is a pro feature only included in the pro cameras.
I guess the main reason for this is just plain and simple marketing. They want to have a diverse sortiment of cameras catering for different needs, and they cannot stuff every feature into every camera and still sell different models. Well, they could just make the D2X and be done with it, but that would soon eliminate them from the market.
So they make different camera models with different feature sets. And AI metering has not been part of any consumer grader Nikon DSLR to date, and probably will not ever be.
If AI metering is so central to you, save up the money for a D200, its a great camera and the price difference to the D80 is not by any means impossible to get by. If you could afford a D80, you could fairly easily save enough to get a used D200 as well.
I totally agree with you that metering with AI lenses is a bonus (I have it on my D2H, and sometimes miss it on my D70S). But when it comes to old manual lenses the D80 have one major improvement over the D70 -- the viewfinder. Setting manual focus will be so much easier with the new brighter wievfinder. Lacking AI meterining is in my world a rahter minor nuisance in comparison.
Thanks PerL,
I was wondering if you could you talk me through the workflow involved. Is it as straightforward as just replacing lenses, taking a light meter reading and dialling it in to the camera manually? can extension tubes be connected?
Do you get a live image on the LCD for focusing purposes (I understand the improved viewfinder is a big bonus in this respect)?
Any live histogram that can can help before the exposure?
As I said, my interest in this is pretty limited - I have a macro lens and a couple of extension tubes from my FMII years, and i consider not having in camera metering is a minor niggle.
Cheers again,
Isaac
I was wondering if you could you talk me through the workflow involved. Is it as straightforward as just replacing lenses, taking a light meter reading and dialling it in to the camera manually? can extension tubes be connected?
Do you get a live image on the LCD for focusing purposes (I understand the improved viewfinder is a big bonus in this respect)?
Any live histogram that can can help before the exposure?
As I said, my interest in this is pretty limited - I have a macro lens and a couple of extension tubes from my FMII years, and i consider not having in camera metering is a minor niggle.
Cheers again,
Isaac
Cultured Vulture
Senior Member
How much extra do you figure it will cost you to switch to a Canon system?
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Regards,
JR
larsbc
Forum Pro
What additional external controls does the 20D have over the D70? MLU maybe?
And FWIW, I believe the D80 does have ISO100.
larsbc
Mark53
Veteran Member
Good G-d, Nikon dropped AI metering support from it's mid-level film bodies in the mid 90's - this is nothing new. People are acting as though this is a new decision by Nikon. I don't agree with the decision, but please, this is not a new topic. The D80 is another new "mid-level" body and continues the tradition not to include AI metering.
aroundomaha
Senior Member
I guess I was just really hoping for AI and didn't respond well when it wasn't there.
The D80 looks like a nice platform, closer to the D200 than it is to the D50/70 and that's not a bad thing.
There are still enoug things that I will probably wait to either buy a D200 or just sit out this whole round of upgrades. I'm actually leaning toward picking up a little Ricoh GR and just sticking with my D70 while also keeping up my adventure with 4x5 inch large format cameras (talk about resolution --- WOW).
Thank you for the well reasoned response.
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Aroundomaha
http://aroundomaha.smugmug.com
The D80 looks like a nice platform, closer to the D200 than it is to the D50/70 and that's not a bad thing.
There are still enoug things that I will probably wait to either buy a D200 or just sit out this whole round of upgrades. I'm actually leaning toward picking up a little Ricoh GR and just sticking with my D70 while also keeping up my adventure with 4x5 inch large format cameras (talk about resolution --- WOW).
Thank you for the well reasoned response.
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Aroundomaha
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aroundomaha
Senior Member
You told me the same thing another friend of mine did. It would be very expensive to move to Canon and it would be cutting off my nose to spite my face as the saying goes.
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Aroundomaha
http://aroundomaha.smugmug.com
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Aroundomaha
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Grevture
Senior Member
Disappointemnet is indeed a strong emotion
I guess their thinking could be it is better to have a (relatively) close gap (sensorwise) between D80 and D200 then between D70 and D50. The D70 and the D50 was really a bit to similar to make sense, but with D80 and D200 there is always the all metal body, the water proofing, the speed -- and the AI metering. Powerful features that really make a visible difference.
4x5 ... Wow!
But for DSLR, to me it sounds like you would make a very happy D200 owner somewhere along the line. Maybe a used one?
I also was a little disappointed when I first realised that the D80 did not meter with AI -- I even brought my 105/2.5 to the press event just to test
. But I think I can see why they do it this way.But what I really miss in Nikons DSLR lineup is a cheap enthusiast camera. A real back to bascis camera house. Skip all fancy program modes, skip all in camera editing, skip everything advanced, it could well have D50/D70 sensor and the cheap shutter of D70, let it max out on 1/2000, let it have just ISO 200, 400 and 800. Make it real simple, basic without all the bell's and whistles -- but do give it a solid durable house and AI metering. Sell it without a kit lens, without anything but the possibility to use old manual lenses. This would be an ideal starter kit for the enthusiast to be, or for the veteran shooter with a pinch of nostalgia.
Mike Lewis
Veteran Member
AI stands for "Automatic Indexing"
I have a Nikon FE that takes AI lenses as well as other F mount lenses looking into the viewfinder feels so good, the D70 is like looking Out Binoculars at the wrong end.
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Mike L.
I have a Nikon FE that takes AI lenses as well as other F mount lenses looking into the viewfinder feels so good, the D70 is like looking Out Binoculars at the wrong end.
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Mike L.
stomp
Leading Member
so you would spend 1350 for a 30d... then another however much for an adapter.
at that point you are REALLY close to a d200.
troll
at that point you are REALLY close to a d200.
troll
ianz28
Veteran Member
I was quite surprised to see this initial post from you. Now I see that it is just initial dissapointment and that now you are coming to your senses.
Getting decent quality on the Canon side is going to take quite a chunk of change. I bet that you could get a D200 and still come out ahead compaired to selling all your gear and then buying the equivalent with Canon.
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Kent J
Senior Member
..was that it was the higher resolution, FP flash and RGB histogram that made the biggest improvements in my photography when moving from the D70 to D200. The D80 has all of those.
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Life is too short for slow glass.
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Life is too short for slow glass.
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stomp
Leading Member
if you did that.
you would probably want the finder from the d200 d80
i hate trying to manual focus a d70.
you would probably want the finder from the d200 d80
i hate trying to manual focus a d70.
Grevture
Senior Member
I guess you're right, in spite of the little helpful green dot, manual focus with D70 really is difficult.
The main problem with my idea, is that it is about a camera that should be inexepensive, but probably is at least as expensive to manufacture as a D80 is -- particularily when considering the relatively small numbers in which it by all likelyhood would be sold. Mechanical stuff like AI metering is expensive to build, while fancy program functions are not. So I am quite sure it will never happen.
But it is a nice dream ...
Yes, you set the camera to M. Then choose a shutter speed. You set the aperture on the ring on the lens. I havent tried extension tubes, but cant see why they shouldnt work.
Sorry, no live LCD. After the shot you can look at histogram and adjust for the next shot. So the first shot will be a test shot. Not a big deal if you not are in a hurry.
I also had a FM - a classic. I know some old pros working with Leicas that seldom used a meter at all (with Tri-X B&W-film).
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