Canon- Give up on 1 series already!!!

Bills nature photo said:

Outdated is:

NiCad batteries
AF system from 1V in the 90's

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...Yep. You are correct. However, regardless of its 16 years of existence, it just beats the cr?p out of my 30D and 5D, which are months old. SO, the question again is: how do you exactly defined "outdated"? By the number of years? By the relative performance? I would take my 1D MarkII-N AF-subsystem (with twin-RISC processors) ANY DAY over anything new Canon has recently released, though.

Bills nature photo said:

Size and weight is greater than what is required to do the job with
the best available technology.

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Not really. Hang the 5D or the 30D in the back of a 300/400mm lens, and watch how AWEFUL that combo looks and works, since these bodies barely provide the necessary grip and balance to decently operate in REAL professional scenarios. Now, put the 1D and watch how it body lends itself as a HANDLE of the lens. Once you start using the 1D in the scenarios is what meant to be, everything falls into place, and the "gadget"-view of the world quickly dissipates and gives place to the tool-view.

Bills nature photo said:

I don't care about look..I care about functionality, and how it
could be improved. Size and weight are part for functionality ala
35mm verses MF.

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...That's exactly the point: my 1D MKII-N works and functions better than my 30D. You CAN NOT accidentally change settings (or rotate the dumb "picture mode" unwillingly), it can get wet whenever I need to, it focuses a lot better, the menus are INFINITELY better organized, when compared to the splattered, list-long, single-page options that show up on the 30D/5D, etc. The critical or most important thing here is the WEIGHT, for sure. Less weight helps doing other things than Tele applications.

Bills nature photo said:

How about they make a slighly smaller lighter camera with a really
good battery, and those who want larger and heavier camera can buy
a lead platfrom that attaches to tripod mount to make it as large
and heavy as the 1D?

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You already have that. Your real problem is another one: you want a 1D-Class machine, lighter and easier to lug. You got the 5D and 20D, but, in essence, you are not really happy, and you know it.

Happy shooting!

P.S.: I currently own the MKII series, the 30D and the Fuji F30. I know which is one from the other, which one does what, and which one does not. The one that I constantly miss when I need to get the results I need is the 1D MKII-N, and not the other way around.

Dave McD said:

Of course they can do better and thank god they can. The fact is
they will when they feel the pinch from the competition and at this
point there is still room to keep re-inventing
themselves...Marketing 101!

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... or maybe take a peek at marketing 102.

Canon is not "sitting" on world breaking new technology, just waiting for the "competition" to catch up. Nor are they waiting to "do better" when they "feel the pinch" from the competition - it would be a bit too late then don't you think?!

What a bunch of adolescent clap-trap thinking.

--
Once the Jones' died, there was no longer a compulsion to keep up with them.

Bills nature photo said:

Thank you Geoman , for being at least the one person out there
that gets it.

Canon can and should upgrade their pro series of cameras. They may
not build exactly what I want, but they can do better than the 1D.

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The 1Ds, 1DMKII, 1DsMKII, 1DMKIIN

Did you mean the 1D SERIES?

--
Once the Jones' died, there was no longer a compulsion to keep up with them.

Batteries,

While I would like a smaller charger, I love that I get about 3000 images from a single charge. I will take the heavier battery if it means I don't have to change them very often. But a smaller charger would be nice (even maybe an optional "portable" charger without the refresh option and only does one at a time.

AF - I like, but it could always be better. I admit a few extended out would be nice if they could manage it

Size/crop: since I know the physics limitations, at this point in time I will take the bigger sensor of a 35mm FF then the 1.6 crop. I can crop later (and often do) if I feel the need.

Flash - I am kind of mixed on this, if they could design something that popped up farther away and had decent power, I could go for that, but if it has no more power then the current pop-up flashes then it is a waste of money/space to add it. It could be handy for rare occasions, but with an 85/1.2 mounted, a small pop-up ain't gonna make enough of a difference.

As to the design, at this point I am kind of used to my 1DsMkII and its controls, some improvements could be made (for example I actually like using the controls of my EOS-3 somewhat better - just because of placement). But the overall feel works for me. I do have a occasional gripe with changing the ISO, but can live with it as is.

And as to camera weight, I like it. But I have big hands. I feel the wieght of the camera balances the weight of the lenses I use which actually makes it easier to hold then my 10D was w/wo the battery grip and those same lenses. And the 10D is way lighter then the 1DsmkII with a battery.

Now the one area I would definately like as far as overall design is concerned is the reprogramable buttons (even if I have to hook it up to the computer to make it happen - in fact that would be preferable to avoid oopses in the field at the wrong time.

Just my opinion, I shoot mainly studio portraits, model portfolios and the occasional event/runway show, so it works quite well for me.

--
Save the Model, Save the Camera, The photographer can be repaired.

Bills nature photo said:

..
Just my personal message to Canon.. you may feel differently.
...

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Yes, I do. This is a lot about personal taste, so no real meaning in arguing about it. I think most of the 1D features are great, I don't mind the weight, size or other things some people dislike, and the performance is top of the line.

One of the few things I'd like from the 20D (which I sold because of comparatively poor AF performance, BTW) is a joystick-like way of selecting focus points. Other than that minor thing I'm very happy.

I wouldn't mind if (and I'm sure they will) Canon brought out a completely new body design, just as long as they don't make it too small. For the time being I'm set with my 1D cameras so frankly I don't care either way for the coming few years, I can't really imagine something ground-breaking enough to make me buy new bodies very soon.

• Anders @ http://www.andersostberg.com *

Ya, too bad the 1D series is such a piece of junk, isn't it?

Amazing how many pros from all different fields of photography have managed to still eke out a living and produce such stunning images with such terrible equipment.
Maybe its because they have talent?
Maybe its because the gear is really pretty darn good?

It's been said a talented protographer can take a beautiful image with a box camera while someone with no talent couldn't produce a memorable image with thousands of dollars worth of the best gear on the market.
Posts such as this only serve to strenghten my belief in that theory.

There is obviously no camera on the market that is all things to all photographers. The fact that Canon has such a large share of the pro and serious hobby market might indicate that they produce a pretty darn good range of cameras that serve several user levels.

Your criticism of the 1D series is just silly. If its not the perfect camera for your needs then go find one that is instead of posting such a bunch of rubbish.

If you're so smart, go get a job working at Canon or Nikon or wherever and design the "perfect" camera.

Then wait for people like yourself to rip it apart because it doesn't fulfill all of THEIR needs or wish lists.

To quote Mayor Richard Daley (Chicago)

".........silly, silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly, silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,

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silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly, silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,

silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,

silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,

silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,

silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,

silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,silly,.........."

"Just plain Silly."

for me. I'd hate to travel with that.
--
Juli
http://www.pbase.com/julivalley/galleries
Canon FiveDee, 2oD, Canon Gee3, and Canon S7o.

For me, the weight is spot on, too. If you slap on a decent size telephoto or tele-zoom, nothing handles as well as a 1 series.

I could always go for a battery that ran longer. Same size, but with a different formulation. That would be sweet!

Even if Canon went with an exotic, like carbon fiber, for the body, the weight reduction would totally mess up the balance.

Improve the internals all you want, but don't mess with the perfection of the 1 series feel!

. . . a consumer-sized, full-frame camera that is easy to carry and has a pop-up flash. I'm sure that you will get one from Canon someday but that is hardly what a lot of 1-Series shooters want as their big gun.

When I'm on a job I want that 1D2N. When I'm shooting lighter fare the 5D is great. A pop-up flash? If it cannot be aimed at the ceiling for fill it is worthless to me. Leave the pop-ups on the consumer cameras.

I too shoot nature and landscapes exclusively, but I love the battery in my 1DSII. When traveling I just toss my charger in my suitcase--no big deal. I love knowing that when I spend a day shooting, even if I fill all my 6 Gb of card space, I'll still have plenty of battery life.

And I know of no other camera that would allow me to go anywhere near as long without a charger--with one backup battery, I can shoot for a week without charging. Maybe the 1DSII battery technology is obsolete, but I just pray Canon doesn't "upgrade" it something like the 5D battery.

Gary Hart
http://www.eloquentimages.com
http://www.photographyosemite.com

Bills nature photo said:

The 1D was a beautiful camera when it came out, but it is time to
move on. The battery system is obsolete, the AF system is great
for sports, but limiting for most other things, and in todays world
it is just too big and heavy. Has Canon noticed how many people
are trading 1Ds Mark II's for 5D's? Canon's " 1D Legacy" is
becoming an anchor!

Batteries: I travel when I do nature, usually by air. I really
don't want a battery charger the size and weight of a brick, and it
would be nice if the battery itself was designed in this century.
By maintaining the legacy of the 1D series owners you are really
limiting the viabilty of your pro systems. You can get a better
power system at a lower size and weight...Move on! If you don't
believe it look at a 20D or a Nikon D2H/X.

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--

• Anders @ http://www.andersostberg.com *

you don't consider other technology (Nikon). I don't mean that to be an insult. You just seem determined to see this as a 1D verses 5D thing. It is really about how good a camera Canon could build. Not which of the 5D or 1D is better.

You are right that neither the 20D/5D nor the 1D meets my needs. Neither does the Nikon D2X. But if the D2X had a Canon sensor and digic chip in it, Canon would lose much of it's base. The 1D design is really not up to the state of the art in body technology. Said differently, the body isn't keeping up with the sensor development.

Nikon has released bodies that are superior to the 1D in every aspect except sensor technology and processing. I don't want to argue AF speed as that is a wash. Both are very good, and I would be happy with either. But the D2X it is better for batteries, size and weight of an intermediate a professionally appropriate size, lay out of AF points, ease and speed of changing AF points, and for me the ergonomics and menus are better, but that is a very personal thing. If I had used a 1D for 20 years starting with the 1V I might feel different. But I didn't.

So maybe all I really want is that better intermediate camera. Way better than the 30D/5D, and a way updated design from the 1D, that has better batteries, smaller size, lighter weight, AF points spread to to include point at the rule of thirds points and weather sealing and a pro-build. I could care less if they still make a 1D..I just want a 2 series camera.

Bill

Yes I meant the series.. I know that they have upgraded sensors. To me a bigger LCD, Picta-bridge direct printing and picture styles are not an upgrade of a body either. The basic body of the 1D series..batteries, shutter, view finder menus, and controls have not changed since it's release.

The pop up flash is really only good for two things.

1) Catch light in eyes of bird or animal on overcast days
2) spur of the moment macro shots.

I would never use it in an indooor setting. As I stated in the original post, I shoot nature (birds and big game), not sports or wedding or portrait.

Hiking with a 580 flash on a camera is just asking for a disaster. Using a pop up flash to provide catch light is priceless.. if they can just find a way to do the weather sealing. A low profile medium power fill flash that wasn't wide angle to maximize power would be an excellent alternative as mentioned in the original post.

Bills nature photo wrote:
SNIP

Bills nature photo said:

So maybe all I really want is that better intermediate camera.

Click to expand...

SNIP

I just got my first Canon, a 1d2. After using lots of other stuff, both film and digital the Canon did take some getting use too.

It is big, but not way bigger than my Sigma SD10. Both those bodies are easy for me to hold and dont give me the impression of a plastic P&S.

But what impressed me most about the Canon was how good it feals with a Sigma 120-300 or a 400 5.6. A smaller lighter body would simply not feel right to me.

Not to mention when I put the 1d2 on the back of a Sigma 300-800 on a gimbal mount all that weight is needed to ballance the lens and body. Even with the light 400 5.6 on a Sidekick the weight is welcome.

For shooting birds the 45 focus points are ok, but I could stand 55. And not to knock the D2 or 200, but the ISO performance of the 1d2 has allowed me to capture images no other camera would permit.

Would I like a newer Canon with better AF, burst rate, more DR, and even higher ISO abilities. Your darn tootin. But quite frankly the 1d2 gets me more keepers than any other camera I know of, cuz if it didnt I would get the camera that did.

The bottom line is that for photo journalism and sports photography for mags and newspapers the 1d2 is the camera of choice of the majority of pros. Just look at the sideline of any pro game and count the white lens.

If you want to capture different types of images there are lots of other cameras that can fill the bill. But if you want to maximize the number of keepers you get shooting hard and fast when you will most likely get only one change the 1D2, or the N, is the camera for the job.

OhmaGod!@%^
You said pop-up-flash!
(you also mentioned lighter weight)

You will now have the wrath of the forum upon you and not only your photographic skills, but your manhood will surely be questioned!
Tom

Bills nature photo said:

Bills nature photo said:

So here is my message to Canon

Click to expand...

Flash. Give me a pop up flash and I could become a groupy for your
design team, but that may be asking too much.

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are sorta like the old joke about Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. That is just a disaster waiting to happen.

There is nothing that will kill batteries faster than a flash. I would much rather have separate batteries for the camera functions and flash than combine the two and risk shorter battery life and the possibility of the camera running out of juice faster than it should have.

in my lifetime would be nice. Although that seems unlikely since evryone here seems to feel that the 1D series is perfect and can not be improved upon.

I just wanted to go on record that a departure from the the beloved 1D design would be welcomed by at least a few of us. Yes I can get great images from a 1D series camera or from 1 20D or 5D thtat is properly calibrated. But I would be happier with a smaller lighter body than the 1D series with pro features and current battery technology.

Bill

I only use pop up for eye catch lights on overcast days, and the unexpected macro. I have no intention of using it as a studio light.

Bill

Realize that the 1D series is aimed at working professionals. When you really need to get the shot every day, every time, you don't want to re-learn the handling of the camera too often. You also want to use your existing accessories when buying a second or third body. I'm sure most pros appreciate the fact that the 1D has pretty much been the same for a long time, they don't need new gadgets for the sake of it, they need a familiar and proven tool.

Only hobbyists have the luxury to care more about the handling and the looks of a camera than the actual performance. Nikon may have a better UI, but so what? Many consider they are behind in more important areas.

Your gripes are mostly about your personal taste. What you fail to acknowledge is that Canon's 1D series really gets the job done, and have done so for years. That matters more than any of your arguments.

• Anders @ http://www.andersostberg.com *