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TZ1 – I made my own review …..

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Thanks for your information. I was sure that the images are post processed, becuase they look different from other images I saw from TZ1.

I agree with you that the images should be evaluated printed and not at 100% in a screen. I prefer more detail and less noise, that will allow me to do better crops, but with a 10x zoom there is not much need to crop!!.

Saludos,
Alvaro.
 
acuberos said:
I agree with you that the images should be evaluated printed and
not at 100% in a screen.
Click to expand...
I half agree with you.

printing is a very false test of picture quality. printing intentionally smears details and the idea of putting dots on paper is much less precise and repeatable then a dvi display, for example.

I could just as easily say 'stand back 100feet and THEN it will look good'. what does that prove? as I DESENSITIZE MY TEST INSTRUMENTS, things start to give you the result you want? pffft! no-go. I don't accept that logic.

100% crop is a brutal test, but its a consistent and fair test. there are WAY too many additional variables in the printing process for that to be a good test of the IQ of a camera.

I have to LAUGH when I hear the argument about 'well, you cant judge until you print'. if desensitizing your test gear is the only way to get the results you want, I feel sorry...

--
bryan (pics @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works )
(pics and more @ http://www.netstuff.org ) ~
 
That will depend in the use you do to your images. I printed them at maximum 8x10" (sometimes cropping the original image) and look them in the PC at smaller than 100% size. I only work with them at 100% when post processing with Photoshop.

I am not saying that I do not worry if the image look good at 100%, I prefer that, because a good image allow you to do a have better post processing results, but at the end I print the best images (probably because I am an old school 35mm photographer!!)..

What I do not understand is that there is a lot of people worried about the image quality (resolution, noise, etc), more than in picture quality. If you look at some of pictures from old master photographers, some of their images have considerable grain or does not have the best resolution (for example old images from 35mm cameras with ISO 400 Tri-X film)....

Saludos,
Alvaro.

P.D. Excuse me if my English is not good!!
 
acuberos said:
What I do not understand is that there is a lot of people worried
about the image quality (resolution, noise, etc), more than in
picture quality. If you look at some of pictures from old master
photographers, some of their images have considerable grain or does
not have the best resolution (for example old images from 35mm
cameras with ISO 400 Tri-X film)....
Click to expand...
the two have nothing to do with each other. one is 'art qualty' and the other is 'technical quality'.

they don't link at all. of course you can get artistic and pleasing shots from even a brownie camera. that wasn't the point.

the point I make is that, all else being equal, its useful to know where the failings of the camera are so you can make an INFORMED decision.

the rah-rah cheerleading I see on this model drives ME nuts! no one is saying that you can't get a nice capture of a pleasant memory with the tizzy. but so can 110 film! but how GOOD of a capture can you get, when you look really closely.

we ARE talking about its technical merits here.

(oh, and your english is just fine!)

--
bryan (pics @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works )
(pics and more @ http://www.netstuff.org ) ~
 
Sorry, Bryan, but i don´t have the original shot no more because it is(was) a little unsharp. I postprocessed it and deleted the original.

I told that all the shots in the gallery are sharpened (post-processed), so when you make a 100%crop you can see more artifacts than normally on the monitor. But you don´t see these artifacts in prints up to a size of 8x12inches.

If you want to make more crops for testing the TZ1 then go to: http://www.pbase.com/jogy/testbilder
All the picture are direct from camera and non-processed!

But don´t forget: the TZ1 has only 5 Megapixel and therefore cut-out options are limited.

The huge advantage of the TZ1 is to make cut-outs (crops) with the optical Zoom and put it after shooting in your small pocket ;-)

Don´t count pixel, make pixel !

Jogy
http://www.pbase.com/jogy
 
linuxworks said:
its not a bad shot, at lower screen resolution, but WOW, just look
at the artifacts on the fullsize. here's a crop from that:
Click to expand...
Jeesh, I can't believe that ANYONE who's been within 200 yards of an A620 let alone OWNED one could put up with image quality like that TZ1 crop - things have definately taken a dive since the superb FZ20 and FZ5 !! ..

Unda had an UZI which had a sharp Canon 10X IS zoom lens fitted and could print clean 10X8s every time despite being 2Mp, sometimes I wonder if this pixel chasing business is any good at all, a shame they couldn't have mimicked the FZ20's image quality in the Tizzy (AND fitted an all important EVF)

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

 
Thank you Jogy for the work you put into this.

It's helping me in my search for a camera.

I really like this camera ergonomically... but i'm not sure I like the image quality
 
Sorry to slightly go off topic but is the larger picture of the model train enging. DOes it look like this one?



Sorry I almost sprayed the screen with coffee when I saw your shot!

If it is. One question if you would not mind. Did you ever get it to puff smoke?
 
Hi Anada,

That's wonderful! And you're Tizzy pics look great!
Anada said:
Hi Unda,

My main camera is D70, and my best lenses are 50/1.8 and 180/2.8. I
also have the 18-70 Kit lens. And I always take RAW, and convert
them with Nikon Capture and Raw Magick. Then I usese PS CS after
that.

I do not think my Tizzy's pics are too noisy nor plastick colours.
Of course the Nikon pics are much better, but I can't have that
arsenal with me all the time. That's why I bought the Tizzy, and I
am very happy with it.

Antti
--



some pics: http://www.pbase.com/anada
Click to expand...
 
As someone who owns a TZ1, and thinks it's a great camera for what it is, I personally feel the criticisms of the image quality are deserved. The issue seems quite clear to me: Panasonic has noisy sensors, and has been criticized relentlessly for that fact. They've tried to process it out with their latest engine, and we've seen the results. This, combined with their lack of a lossless file format, or even a truly low compression jpg setting, leads to some nasty artifacts that can easily be seen at full size.

All that being said, it's still has some great points. It's responsive, has good metering, good IS, and of course a decent zoom lens in a small body. But just don't plan on doing any major cropping or huge enlargements. A better sensor, better processing, and/or RAW capability would have made a huge difference in image quality.

I doubt Panasonic's sensors are going to change drastically any time soon, and the fact that the TZ1 uses their "latest and greatest" image processing engine suggests they aren't close to figuring out how to do that right any time soon either. So they really, REALLY need to start offering RAW on more of their cameras so we have the option of dealing with the noisy sensor with better tools than their in-camera processing can provide.
 
the large picture shows a ROCO (manufacturer) model railway. It is a model of a german steam locomotive called BR41, digital equipped and with sound but no steam.

Yours is a Märklin model and it is steam locomotive called BR44 and it seems to be an older model.

Jogy
 
Still liking the design of this camera, I need to ask if other tz1 owners images are displaying what others have called the "watercolor" effect that others have mentioned of Jogy's pictures.

Pics I look at in the gallery that really show this oddity are the schlossburg1, Motive Bergisches Land 1, Ronja, and Boeing B737-800 AIR BERLIN.

The SchlossBurg 1 shot.... the building looks pretty dappled, as do the trees immediately in front and in the distance behind it.

In the Motive Berisches shot, the wagon, and some of the trees beyond it are dappled.

In the Boeing shot, again, the background trees are pretty intersting when viewed at 100% in photoshop. The plane itself (especially the underside) also looks dappled.

The Ronja shot loses detail the dogs hair when viewed at 100%

K... nuff said. I'm not trying to incite the trolls here... I'm just wondering if these visible effects are common amongst the photos taken by the other users with tz1s. I understand that all digital camers have to do some interpolating to blend/adjust, etc info they see. But I want to be sure Jogy's shots are typical of this cameras performance or not. (many other test pics I'm finding are already PP'd)
 
I used to get rocked to sleep at night by one of those giants (or at least it LOOKED like yours) pulling a long freight train by my house, which was 20 meters from the roadbed. They ran on coal, and occasionally a hot cinder would set fire to the field that surrounded our house. My father used to "back fire" the weeds around the yard every now and then to keep the flames away from the house itself. This would have been 55-60 years ago, in northern Utah, where I lived at the time.
--
Just cruisin' ...



EffZeeOneVeeTwo, EffZeeThirty, Tizzy (who captured the Egret)
 
John_Reed said:
You have had a fixed mindset about this camera since it came out,
and nothing factual will change that. Not the mere fact that
thousands of satisfied users are enjoying the use of the camera,
not great results from at least a few sources. Your song is stale,
trite, out of tune. No, I'm not part of the Tizzy design team, but
I haven't observed this "postcard" limitation, which is your own
mantra.
--
Just cruisin' ...



EffZeeOneVeeTwo, EffZeeThirty, Tizzy (who captured the Egret)
Click to expand...
Sorry John, I believe in my eyes. I do pixel peep. The TZ1 does have inferior IQ than FZ30 or LX1. There are blotchy patches. They are unacceptable unless they are low quality JPEG artifacts.
 
A little off topic, but my FZ7 (which I returned to Amazon) also has the "watercolor" effect.

With TZ1, can you set in-camera noise reduction to "low"? You can with FZ7, FWIW. And post process with Neat Image or whatever.

John
Carphunter said:
Still liking the design of this camera, I need to ask if other tz1
owners images are displaying what others have called the
"watercolor" effect that others have mentioned of Jogy's pictures.
Click to expand...
 
havingfun said:
With TZ1, can you set in-camera noise reduction to "low"?
Click to expand...
Yes. There are three settings: Natural, Standard, Vivid.

Natural turns sharpness down but seems to give the effects as seen in this thread - a little watercoloury at 100%. Standard is a little more sharpened but less noise reduced. You get more detail. That's where I leave mine set now. I get pretty decent results from it. Check my Flickr site - I have a lot of photos there at 5mp resolution and most of them are just straight out of the camera (or maybe if they're edited at all just cropped a little).

Vivid I would say is unuseable. It sharpens so much it actually sharpens the noise itself, and then it oversaturates the image to boot. It's a neat Lomo effect if you're going for that, but otherwise I would suggest staying away.

I shot a whole day accidentally on "Natural" mode and I was a little depressed when I got home. Thankfully I had planned to use the photos on the web at no larger than 800x600, so it didn't matter.

You can get really great images from the Tizzy, or sorta crappy ones. You have to know how to use the camera a little. However, even on "Simple Mode" I've found that I can usually get images that are well exposed, in focus, and with nice natural colours. And it fits in my jeans pocket. With a 10x zoom.

I really have no complaints.

--
Flick Her? http://flickr.com/photos/jough/
 
This might vary between cameras. I found my cam performs much better in natural mode - much less of the watercolor stuff, especially with indoor high-iso shots zoomed in. They will need USM though. I process all pics for display or print so that's fine with me.
jough said:
havingfun said:
With TZ1, can you set in-camera noise reduction to "low"?
Click to expand...
Yes. There are three settings: Natural, Standard, Vivid.

Natural turns sharpness down but seems to give the effects as seen
in this thread - a little watercoloury at 100%. Standard is a
little more sharpened but less noise reduced. You get more detail.
That's where I leave mine set now. I get pretty decent results
from it. Check my Flickr site - I have a lot of photos there at
5mp resolution and most of them are just straight out of the camera
(or maybe if they're edited at all just cropped a little).

Vivid I would say is unuseable. It sharpens so much it actually
sharpens the noise itself, and then it oversaturates the image to
boot. It's a neat Lomo effect if you're going for that, but
otherwise I would suggest staying away.

I shot a whole day accidentally on "Natural" mode and I was a
little depressed when I got home. Thankfully I had planned to use
the photos on the web at no larger than 800x600, so it didn't
matter.

You can get really great images from the Tizzy, or sorta crappy
ones. You have to know how to use the camera a little. However,
even on "Simple Mode" I've found that I can usually get images that
are well exposed, in focus, and with nice natural colours. And it
fits in my jeans pocket. With a 10x zoom.

I really have no complaints.

--
Flick Her? http://flickr.com/photos/jough/
Click to expand...
 
How do I see the full-bore pics in flikr? or have all of your pics been resized to fit that space?

I’m not finding full res copies...or I just don’t know how to bring them up.

On other sites, I've found the show full-size options...but don't see that at flikr.

Thanks
 
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