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Great Glass, or Great Body?

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AmateurOne

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First post here, and I'd like to start by saying just what a terrific forum this is. Wonderful information by knowledgeable and respectful people. I have browsed countless threads and have learned a lot.

So here is my question:

I am an amateur, about to buy my first DSLR. Started with a Canon A95 point and shoot, because it had enough settings I could play with to learn. But now it is time to move up.

Since no one's budget is unlimited, my question is whether the dollars are better spent on great glass, but less expensive body, or a better body and less expensive glass.

My instincts are the latter ... to go with a 350XT,but go with great glass. I find my walkaround shooting tends to be urban, and indoor family shots, so the new 17-55/2.8is has appeal.

Or ... am I better off going the other route, and trade up on the body and compromise on glass?

Part of what is on my mind is a rational upgrade / expansion strategy. Add a longer zoom later. And finally upgrade the body. But what I seem to be reading here is questions about the longevity of the EFS 1.6x design format. Buying great / expensive glass is fine if it will last me a long time, but no one wants to invest in a dead end.

To be really clear, I am an amateur. Will always be an amateur.

For someone like me I really like what I perceive Canon is doing with its lens development. You guys are pros here and may have other points of view (that I'd be interested in). But as I look at it as a newbie, in the focal range I am interested in, Canon has a good-better-best option within that same range. The Rebel kit lens (good), the 17-85 (better), and the 17-55/2.8 (best).

I have to believe the next trick will entail similar choices at the longer end, or am I wrong?

Anyway ... my basic question is as originally posed... great glass, or great body?

Thanks in advance.
 
The answer is easy and unanimous. Go for the 350D - as an amateur, it has more than everything you'll need. Try to get the best lens you can with the money you have. The 17-55IS is a great lens, but it's an EF-S lens and won't be compatible with a full-frame camera if you ever upgrade to a 5D or whatever. If that's a concern, any of the Canon "L" walkaround lenses like the 24-70L or 24-105IS are also very good. Otherwise, go for the 17-55!

Good luck and have fun!
 
Go with best glass you can afford. It is what sees the image and delivers that image, to the camera body.

Really, it is like spending alot of money on a high performance race car, than putting in a stock four cyclinder motor.

Or spending thousands on high end stereo gear, only to play the sound on cheap speakers.

The speaker is what delivers the that you hear, the motor is what porpels the race car and, in photography, the glass is what delivers the image.

"Nuff Said !

--
Dave Patterson
---------------------
Midwestshutterbug.com
----------------------------------
'When the light and composition are strong, nobody
notices things like resolution or pincushion distortion'
Gary Friedman
 
AmateurOne said:
to go with a 350XT,but go with great glass.
Click to expand...
That's definitely the way to do it. Even if you spend a small fortune on a body, you'll want to replace it far sooner than if you buy good lenses.

And frankly, I think better lenses have more of an effect on your photos than a better body in general. Sure there are shots you may not be able to get with a Rebel XT, but on the other hand, there are shots you can't get with the kit lens either.

And once you get your gear, keep up with what's new, but concentrate more on using what you have. Read and experiment to develop your technical skills. Don't neglect your artistic eye because developing a vision and making it appear in your images is both the most difficult and the most rewarding part of photography.
 
Your first instinct is right - go for the best lens you can afford on a 350D. The lenses will outlast the bodies you buy. Even if you think you won't go FF, I would still not buy an EF-S lens priced the same as an L. Someday you may regret it!
--

 
Glass every time

Just bought a 300mm f2.8 LI S at $4000 versus upgrading to the 5D

It's transformed my body (not literally)

Lenses outlast bodies and we all know that every twelve months new bodies arrive versus many lenses are years old

Rob
AmateurOne said:
First post here, and I'd like to start by saying just what a
terrific forum this is. Wonderful information by knowledgeable and
respectful people. I have browsed countless threads and have
learned a lot.

So here is my question:

I am an amateur, about to buy my first DSLR. Started with a Canon
A95 point and shoot, because it had enough settings I could play
with to learn. But now it is time to move up.

Since no one's budget is unlimited, my question is whether the
dollars are better spent on great glass, but less expensive body,
or a better body and less expensive glass.

My instincts are the latter ... to go with a 350XT,but go with
great glass. I find my walkaround shooting tends to be urban, and
indoor family shots, so the new 17-55/2.8is has appeal.

Or ... am I better off going the other route, and trade up on the
body and compromise on glass?

Part of what is on my mind is a rational upgrade / expansion
strategy. Add a longer zoom later. And finally upgrade the body.
But what I seem to be reading here is questions about the longevity
of the EFS 1.6x design format. Buying great / expensive glass is
fine if it will last me a long time, but no one wants to invest in
a dead end.

To be really clear, I am an amateur. Will always be an amateur.

For someone like me I really like what I perceive Canon is doing
with its lens development. You guys are pros here and may have
other points of view (that I'd be interested in). But as I look at
it as a newbie, in the focal range I am interested in, Canon has a
good-better-best option within that same range. The Rebel kit lens
(good), the 17-85 (better), and the 17-55/2.8 (best).

I have to believe the next trick will entail similar choices at the
longer end, or am I wrong?

Anyway ... my basic question is as originally posed... great glass,
or great body?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
--
Taking pictures first, equipment second
 
AmateurOne said:
I have to believe the next trick will entail similar choices at the
longer end, or am I wrong?

Anyway ... my basic question is as originally posed... great glass,
or great body?
Click to expand...
You can even look at this investment wise. cameras devalue a lot in the first year. Lenses keep their value better. That said, the 1500$ camera you could buy today will not be as good as the 1500$ camera you buy a year from now.

A far as the long end, there are a few obvious choices. My first non kit lens was the 70-200F4. I love that lens. The kit lens is actually alright if you stop it down a little. I guess I am saying you might want to start long with the good glass.
 
It depends what your situation is. You mentioned family shots. What ages and interests do you kids have?

If they are doing trick skiing or gymnastics, you should look for a body that can shoot at 5 FPS. Then you can get fabulous series shots of a ski jumper in mid-air.

If they are toddlers or not into sports, then any camera body will do fine.

If they are into a sport or acitivity that is performed indoors such as basketball or wrestling, then you will always be short on light. For this you need to get the fastest lens posible (50mm 1.4) and zoom with your feet -or spend lots of dollars on a 200 mm f2.8 lens.

If the kids are into tennis, any lens will do, because you can walk right up to the kid and take a photo in sunlight.

I would recommend staying away from wide angle lenses - they make really boring photos.

My top pick: The canon 30d with the 28-135 lens. But again if you are doing lots of indoor stuff with quick althleic movements (like gymnastics), the subjects may be blurred).
 
most every thing has been said (glass!) but a few points have been glossed over.

1)don't be afraid of EF-s lenses (made for the 1.6 crop APS-c Sensor). you can sell the lens if you want to upgrade (may not retain the value of the L lenses, but few thing in life do). I think your initial assesment of lenses was pretty good.

2) one of the problems with canon cameras is that there are "too many options" and it's hard to decide. Don't forget third party lenses, other companies make good glass too.
 
AmateurOne said:
To be really clear, I am an amateur. Will always be an amateur.
Click to expand...
...as are most of us.
AmateurOne said:
Anyway ... my basic question is as originally posed... great glass,
or great body?
Click to expand...
I imagine money is an issue. Regardless, get a great body and great glass. Don't worry about covering all the FLs. I'm going to assume that the 5D is out due to cost, so my recommendations are based on you staying with a cropped sensor for the next couple of years.

1) Get a 20D or 30D.
2) Buy only good glass, one lens at a time.

Good glass need not be expensive. For example, the 85 / 1.8 and/or 100 / 2 are both around $350, but amazing lenses. Feeling constrained to only one FL? No worries -- 90% of my pics are at 100mm (on a 5D).

But you need more range, I hear you say. Again, no worries. The Sigma 18-50 / 2.8, and many of the new 17-5x / 2.8s are very good lenses for under $500 (except the Canon 17-55 / 2.8 IS for $1300). The 70-200 / 4L is barely over $500 after rebate.

Then there's the 60 / 2.8 macro for under $400 -- an amazing lens.

Point is, the body matters and it matters a lot. So does the glass. Don't worry about covering all possible FLs -- worry about getting quality in your most used FLs.

--
--joe

http://www.josephjamesphotography.com
http://www.pbase.com/joemama/

Please feel free to criticize, make suggestions, and edit my photos. If you wish to use any of my photos for any purpose other than editing in these forums, please ask.
 
You better invest in glass than in bodies. If you get the Rebel XT (350D), you'll have everything you need for now to take great photos. If you want to upgrade later, the financial loss is not that large as with a more expensive body.

Glass: If it's good you'll keep it for long. I recommend the 24-105L, it's become my always-on-lens now...
 
... on Canon bodies right now is a used 20D. You can get a lightly used one for $800.

While I agree with the general rule that glass is the better purchase -- and it's clearly the better investment -- IMO the responsiveness of the 20D will give a more enjoyable experience than a lesser body, especially as you get into the hobby.

Have fun!

--
Sonoma County, CA
 
Ladies/Gents

I have had my 350D for a year now, after reading comments on the forum I have replaced my nasty kits lens with a 24-105L last week, what a change, the pleasure of using a top quality lens is well worth the money, the colour saturation is astonishing, with the camera equivalent of Moores law in operation, ever 18 months your electronic body will be replaced, the value of the body goes through the floor, glass however holds it value far far better, just look at ebay prices to see that.

Put your money in good lens and update the body, its one reason why I went for an L lens rather that the EFS lens, I can't help feeling that F/F prices will come back to 350D users like myself, even if it takes five years.

regards
Kevin.
--
Doing things that you want does not make you a bad person!
 
I didn't read all the replies, but the ones I did read seem to concur with my opinion - get good glass....

I bought a 20d when it first came out. I had some non-L lenses from my past 35mm days. It became apparent, very quickly, that I needed better lenses. It took a couple years, but I now have a good collection of L-series lenses that cover the focal ranges I need.

I was simply stunned by the difference between my old lenses, and my "L" lenses. I shot a couple volleyball matches at a local school. I got new lenses between the first and second match. I could not believe how much extra contrast and sharpness the new lenses provided.

Good luck!

Grimmwit
 
Cover some functionality so you can get the most out of your system. Try covering a good range of focal lengths and add some fast primes.

The 17-55/2.8 IS is an EF-S lens, but it should hold its value for several years even if Canon would go over into all full frame cameras in the future. Nothing to worry about there. The resale value will be quite high. I would add a tele zoom and a portrait lens to that. There are several not so expensive options here, like for instance the 70-200/4 and the 70-300 IS. Good portrait lenses need not cost much either. The 50/1.8, 85/1.8 and 100/2 are good examples.

Macro (extreme close up) photography is also an option. In addition to dedicated macros lenses, here are several inexpensive ways of going about this, involving add-on equipment. If you want extreme wide angle there are some good offerings, for instance the Tokina 12-24 and the Sigma 10-20. But the 17-55 is already wider than most compact cameras. Adding a good external flash is also a possibility. Or a tripod or monopod.

The XT should at any rate cover your needs for now. Camera manufacturers are able to cram some good technology and a wide range of user options even into their entry level dSLRs these days, the image quality is pretty close to their more expensive offerings and the AF system will keep up with most things except the most extreme situations.
 
Why deprive yourself for five years? Even if I go FF my 10-22 and 17-55/2.8 are giving me great enjoyment.
uktwin said:
Ladies/Gents
Click to expand...
uktwin said:
Put your money in good lens and update the body, its one reason why
I went for an L lens rather that the EFS lens, I can't help feeling
that F/F prices will come back to 350D users like myself, even if
it takes five years.

regards
Kevin.
--
Doing things that you want does not make you a bad person!
Click to expand...
 
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