Examining Canon 30D alleged noise issue

Can someone please help clear this situation up once and for all!

For the past week or more I keep reading various reports from unsatisfied 30D owners complaininig about the amount noise found in they're images (even around 100 ISO).

I've been happy with most of the images i've produced, however all of my work thus far has been inside nightclubs working in very low light (400 - 800 ISO) using my speedlite. I've always expected there to be a certain amount of noise in my images particularly in any darker under exposed areas, but the properly exposed parts have looked great!

Threads like the one CanonKen started are now starting to make me wonder, and doubt myself… 'is my 30D actually behaving as well as it should?' - How would we know??? So anyone else that rightly or wrongly would like to eliminate their camera from all this hysteria, is there a series of simple, yet consistant tests that we could all easily do!? If the 30D cost the same as a cheap £300 compact or the Nikon D50, I doubt there would be that much fuss, or that I would even care. But since the 30D is an expensive camera, I think people me included just want some guide to know our cameras are working within a reasonable boundary.

I'm sure there are lemons out there, thats just a fact of consumer electronics. Would be absolutely extemely rare for whole batches of cameras being lemons, and that by chance it effected everyone in this forum!?

Regardless, this weekend I'm gonna head out and photograph some detailed landscapes and experiment with "shooting to the right" and see how I fair.

Just so you know… I recently made a return back to SLR cameras and finally upgraded from a Canon G6 to the 30D, and in comparison there's no comparison as the 30D blows away the G6 in all areas, sharper, more clarity, better colours, far lower noise. (Canon G6 @ 400 ISO looks noisier that my Canon 30D @ 1600ISO)

For what it's worth My camera's serial no. is 02xxxxyyyy
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Canon 30D
Sigma EX DG 17-35mm
Speedlite 430ex

Canon tech support said if you can’t see it when it is printed then there is not a problem.
You should not use your monitor as a means to determine noise.

BTW, Canon tech support never sent me the print and never replied back after I sent them an email requesting for the print. I did get a receipt that my email was delivered.

--
EOSMan
http://www.pbase.com/eosman

EOSMan said:

Canon tech support said if you can’t see it when it is printed then
there is not a problem.
You should not use your monitor as a means to determine noise.

BTW, Canon tech support never sent me the print and never replied
back after I sent them an email requesting for the print. I did get
a receipt that my email was delivered.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply but not really what I was hoping for:

Seems a bit like your being fobbed off with that responce? Far too much grey area in that comment. I'd like to see a few people submit some images taken in controlled conditions at various ISO's so we can see how the noise is behaving. Maybe taking shots of a black frame at various set speeds speeds at various ISO. I dunno, just trying to think of a simple way everyone with any concerns could easily find out if there camera is ok.

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Canon 30D, Sigma EX DG 17-35mm, Speedlite 430ex

I've shot at 1600 ISO and gotten as clean pictures as those from a d200 at 100 ISO. So I don't understand what all the so called noise complaints are about unless they're from Nikon trolls invading the Canon forums trying to stir something up. Noise is an issue with cameras using the Sony sensor (ie, Nikon, Pentax, Olympus and Konica/Minolta), not with Canon sensors from anything I've seen.

Generally speaking, the 30D is clean. But one guy has a problem with one camera. The majority of cameras may be fine, but this fellows camera may not be. I had the same thing happen to me years ago with an olympus camera. Noise. Too much of it. Me?, I buy everything I can locally. If there's a problem, exchange is never a problem. In the case of my oly, I went back to costco and exchanged it, no problems asked.

So you can get a dud, even when 99% of the cameras shipped are winners, there is still one dud out of every hundred sold.

Manufacturers test to have wide specs. Two 30D's may both be in spec, but one may be much sweeter than other. Just because something is in spec, that doesn't make it sweet.

Hopefully, CanonKen didn't go through dell hell to get his camera, and he can walk into where he bought it and exchange it or get a refund.

--
rich
http://www.photoallure.com

The noise shows WHEN RAW image is converted. To match the JPG's smooth quality using DPP you need to turn the Noise-Reduction to HIGH.

Of course you get the same (more or less) image when RAW is converted via other RAW converters.

Non the less I use DPP only and AT "speed-priority" operating mode. (this is the ONLY way you can get NR-free image, but you do get much more noise but also VISIBLY more detail and better colours)

(go to DPP-> Preferences, change Operating mode to "speed priority" and see what comes out)

all that said I do get more noise when AF SERVO is "on", and even a few minutes after that... it could be some static charge buildup, but I can't say for sure yet... but if you downsize for whatever reason, of just print, you get better results

here's a (crop from) a 50%... and no visible noise

As compared to my 300D, my 30D is performing extremely well:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1019&thread=18306495

Have you printed your own pictures?

1) There's nothing in your image that would allow you to see noise even if it was there.

2) Resizing an image removes the noise. It's not helpful to post resized images when looking for noise.

I've printed a couple of basic still life test images when I first bought the camera
(Printed at 100% via a pro lab, not ink jet)

They were pin sharp, with slight noise in some shadow detail.
Seemed perfectly acceptable at the time.

I'm only wondering if what I deemed as acceptable is infact not as good as it could be?
(Playing devils advocate so to speak)

Please don't get me wrong, cause I am in actual fact very Very please with my camera!

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Canon 30D, Sigma EX DG 17-35mm, Speedlite 430ex

Phil has some nice shots at 3200 ISO in his 30D review.

I suggest you download some of those to compare you shots.

Here is one Example:



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DeeDee G.
http://www.pbase.com/deedee_g/root

That example looks terrible...maybe the Sammy HDTV I am currently viewing it on has something to do with it, but my 20D does much better than that at 3200!

Jack

I don’t print 99.9% of my pictures. I want them for online display only. For Canon to tell me that my monitor should not be used to determine noise is just plain ridiculous.

Richdavid said:

Have you printed your own pictures?

Click to expand...

--
EOSMan
http://www.pbase.com/eosman

It would be better if this was the same picture. Le'ts hear some feedback.

30D



20D



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DeeDee G.
http://www.pbase.com/deedee_g/root

based on these two pixel-peepers, I would probably give the nod to this particular 30D...but it still isn't very good!! The 20D picture has more shadow areas that exaggerate the noise.

Jack

Fidel - just a slight (and confusing) exaggeration methinks. Please provide a sample of this silky smooth photo shot at 1600 iso for us.

So why did you jump up and down EOS and replaced your 30D with S/N 05xxxx...
you just contradicted your self
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shoot to thrill

kind regards

tonydee

--
shoot to thrill

kind regards

tonydee

I was being sarcastic.

tonydee1 said:

So why did you jump up and down EOS and replaced your 30D with S/N
05xxxx...
you just contradicted your self
--
shoot to thrill

kind regards

tonydee

Click to expand...

--
EOSMan
http://www.pbase.com/eosman

azlan said:

I'd like to see a few people submit some images taken in controlled
conditions at various ISO's so we
can see how the noise is behaving. Maybe taking shots of a black
frame at various set speeds speeds at various ISO. I dunno, just
trying to think of a simple way everyone with any concerns could
easily find out if there camera is ok.

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- - - - - -
Canon 30D, Sigma EX DG 17-35mm, Speedlite 430ex

Click to expand...

Well, they're not exactly scientific tests, but because of all the "noise" around here lately, which was causing some apprehension on my part, I have some shots taken with my 10D and 30D here:

http://www.threepalmsphoto.com/index.php?list=17

I wasn't exactly sure what to take shots of or under what conditions, so I'd be open to any suggestions and I'll give it a try.

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http://www.threepalmsphoto.com