K
knucklehead
Guest
I'm looking forward to your noise tests. I found my e100 to have much
less noise - more than I would have expected to see than from just
the relative pixel size.
Plus the camera is a ton and a half of fun!
Dave
-
Welcome to the new forums! Please read this first. For known issues we are working to resolve, click here.
Can the E-100 really cut the mustard?
- Thread starter johnd1
- Start date
less noise - more than I would have expected to see than from just
the relative pixel size.
Plus the camera is a ton and a half of fun!
Dave
Maxven
Senior Member
Hi Jason.
If the E-20 could master just 3 fps with continous shooting that would have been great progress. Waiting for the buffer to empty is the major drawback as I see it. I rarely shoot more than 7.5 fps with my E-100 anyway but the option of 15 fps with precapture is nice if I get into sports shooting.
When Olympus hasn't addressed some of the most important issues with the E-10 it makes me wonder if they're trying the old road of small improvements every six months to keep people upgrading, or if they have something new coming out (the Olydak?) in early 2002 that they don't want competing with the E-20?
Maxven
If the E-20 could master just 3 fps with continous shooting that would have been great progress. Waiting for the buffer to empty is the major drawback as I see it. I rarely shoot more than 7.5 fps with my E-100 anyway but the option of 15 fps with precapture is nice if I get into sports shooting.
When Olympus hasn't addressed some of the most important issues with the E-10 it makes me wonder if they're trying the old road of small improvements every six months to keep people upgrading, or if they have something new coming out (the Olydak?) in early 2002 that they don't want competing with the E-20?
Maxven
--Regards, Maxven (E-100rs, B-300, C-210)
Maxven
Senior Member
Hi Andreas.
Weren't you hanging out in the Minolta forum for a while whilst waiting for the D7? Did you ever get it? Your profile seems to indicate that you now have the Sony F707, are you happy with it, pros and cons? Compared to the D7?
Maxven
Weren't you hanging out in the Minolta forum for a while whilst waiting for the D7? Did you ever get it? Your profile seems to indicate that you now have the Sony F707, are you happy with it, pros and cons? Compared to the D7?
Maxven
--Regards, Maxven (E-100rs, B-300, C-210)
Andreas P.
Veteran Member
Maxven,
than most of it's competitors (an very good lens too), unfortunately there
are some flaws too (The AF inconsistency, the energy consumption).
I like the out of the box picture quality of the F707 (although the color interpretation is at least questionable) and the very reliable focus.
The build quality is very good (better than the E100RS).
Regards,
Andreas
Yes, but i sold it after a few weeks.
Well, this are of course my very subjective view. The D7 has more potential
than most of it's competitors (an very good lens too), unfortunately there
are some flaws too (The AF inconsistency, the energy consumption).
I like the out of the box picture quality of the F707 (although the color interpretation is at least questionable) and the very reliable focus.
The build quality is very good (better than the E100RS).
Regards,
Andreas
Maxven
Senior Member
Hi Andreas.
Have you heard any rumours of an improved D7 with all the bugs fixed? Somebody posted that the D7 didn't have a quality lens and that was the reason for it's lower than expected performance. I take it you don't agree? I really like the idea of a low end of 28mm and hope Minolta will come out with a better successor.
I know of the oversaturated reds and some green cast that supposedly has been fixed. Are there any other colour issues?
I beg to differ! Although I've never been near the F707, I stand firm in my belief that no camera is better built than the E-100 (at least not my BlackMax). Please don't break my illusions. ;-)
--Regards, Maxven (E-100rs, B-300, C-210)
Well, I just got my RS yesterday, after about a year of heavy UZI use (10,000 plus shots). Haven't used precapture much, but:
I also find low light focusing not as reliable as 2100.
White balance in full auto mode is just a tad green on the RS, just a tad pink on the 2100. By about the same amount using the numbers in PhotoShop.
Noise is about the same, maybe a bit better on my 2100.
Autofocus lag is about the same (a bit less than 1 sec) for both.
"Normal" sharpness doesn't jack up the midtones on the RS as much as "Normal" does on the UZI.
Preliminary tests of the manual white balance is disappointing. Not actually as accurate as autoWB.
Precapture mode really sucks the juice out of the batteries, and the UZI is already hard on battery life.
Holland
I also find low light focusing not as reliable as 2100.
White balance in full auto mode is just a tad green on the RS, just a tad pink on the 2100. By about the same amount using the numbers in PhotoShop.
Noise is about the same, maybe a bit better on my 2100.
Autofocus lag is about the same (a bit less than 1 sec) for both.
"Normal" sharpness doesn't jack up the midtones on the RS as much as "Normal" does on the UZI.
Preliminary tests of the manual white balance is disappointing. Not actually as accurate as autoWB.
Precapture mode really sucks the juice out of the batteries, and the UZI is already hard on battery life.
Holland
Andreas P.
Veteran Member
Hello Maxven,
is the same build as the C2100. It is not bad, but for sure no "tank"-like
Regards,
Andreas
No, but a bug fixed D7 probably would be a seller.
If he was talking about the optical performance i don't agree.
Well i am sure you read about this inconsistent WB when the flash is enabled. But Sony is recalling the cameras with this problem for a fix.
Go in a camera store and decide for yourself. You know that the E100
is the same build as the C2100. It is not bad, but for sure no "tank"-like
Regards,
Andreas
Smoke24
Senior Member
I tend go along with the Quacksven here. I have heard too many horror stories about the D7. All pics I have seen with it are terrible, noisy and off color. Haven't looked at F707 though. Don't care for Sony's propensity toward proprietary stuff that is usually very expensive.
I also think the build quality of the E-100 is excellent. Pics are better than most 3 megapixel cameras. Kinda wish the plastic doors were supported with metal though. My only other problem is that the menus could be simpler and better explained in the manual. Now the answer is: when the E-100 was built the mustard was cut.--www.pbase.com/smoke24/galleries
I also think the build quality of the E-100 is excellent. Pics are better than most 3 megapixel cameras. Kinda wish the plastic doors were supported with metal though. My only other problem is that the menus could be simpler and better explained in the manual. Now the answer is: when the E-100 was built the mustard was cut.--www.pbase.com/smoke24/galleries
Jason Stoller
Veteran Member
Andreas I have to say while the E-100 looks like the 2100, it has totally different internal workings. It shares the same lens and body but it is different. As far as being tank like I agree, its not! Its not up to the quality bulid of the E-10/20 and those cameras are not K-1000's or old Nikons either! As far as the D7 is concerned, its not even in the same class as the E-100 nor is the F707 so I do not know why we are comparing here. It does have focus, lens, and color problems. In addition long write times. Sony while being a nice camera is having to get the W/b fixed but suffers from some focus problems. The E-10 and E-20 have less problems out of the box than either of these two!
Jason
Jason
--Jason Stoller [email protected] that special moment with a great cameraNo, but a bug fixed D7 probably would be a seller.
If he was talking about the optical performance i don't agree.
Well i am sure you read about this inconsistent WB when the flash
is enabled. But Sony is recalling the cameras with this problem for
a fix.
Go in a camera store and decide for yourself. You know that the E100
is the same build as the C2100. It is not bad, but for sure no
"tank"-like
Regards,
Andreas
Jason Stoller
Veteran Member
Congrats Smoke, as you and may others have found out the proof is in the pudding! You can speculate all you want about the E-100, but using it is all it takes to answer any question about it!
Jason
Jason
--Jason Stoller [email protected] that special moment with a great camera
K
knucklehead
Guest
Hi Holland,
Would you be able to post some comparison shots that show the relative
noise levels? I'd be interested to see how this plays out with different cameras.
Also could you check again on the lag times? I wouldn't expect this to vary
to any significant degree between different cameras of the same model.
Clicker copied the IR timings here recently:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1008&message=1770881
I've been questioning ever since I first read the review why the e100 would
have slower timings for this. I don't think either of us have a real accurate
way to measure the absolute timings, but my attempts to measure the relative
perfomance showed me nothing to say that the IR results are inacurate.
Dave
Jason Stoller
Veteran Member
Fuji has pointed out that the larger the number of pixels are on a CCD the more noise you will get. So some sharpening either has to happen either in the camera or some noise reducation has to be applied. This is more evident when you go past 3 megapixels. The reason for this is that the CCD will pick up electronic noise, so the more pixels you pack in the same space the more noise your pictures are subject to. So while you might get more resolution with a larger CCD and more pixels you also increase the noise esp after 3 MP. Its a trade off! Makes sense to me!
Jason
Jason
--Jason Stoller [email protected] that special moment with a great camera
Jason Stoller
Veteran Member
Holland it just makes sense that you will have more noise from the progressive scan CCD in the E-100 than you would from the Interlaced CCD scan that you have in an Uzi. They read information differently. I would suggest using an external battery pack from Thomas Distributing or something similar to it and you will be a much happier camper.
Jason
Jason
--Jason Stoller [email protected] that special moment with a great camera
I'm still checking noise levels. Since some have reported more noise and some less with the RS, noise levels are probably very similar and possibly vary somewhat from camera to camera. I haven't compared my 2 UZIs against each other, but my impression is noise is not greater in one than the other. I'll post some shots when I get a chance.
The autofocus lag times clicker showed are .9sec for UZI, 1.28 for RS. I don't think I can tell the difference between those, some people I guess can. All I can say for sure is that they seem about the same to me, and when I use a stopwatch I get times from .9-1.5 sec for both cameras, but my reflexes I'm sure are not very fast or consistent.
Holland
Gerry Gray
Forum Enthusiast
Hi
I am the guy who posted "put an E100 RS in the bottom of camera bag" in the prodigital forum. The context started out on equipt pro versus amateur and degenerated into pro versus amateur people. I go to the pro forums to learn a bit from pros. I have always felt that professional was a state of mind as opposed to merely getting paid for it. I have to commend the air of professional courtesy shown in the thread I am in right now is far superior to the thread in the pro digital. By the way they ignored my comment on E100...typical...but I glad to say someone noticed (john D1)
Back to the E100. I have larger pixel digital cameras + 35mm but purchased E100 for precapture and stabilized lense and the price was so low that it would be foolish to pass up. Gimmicks...precapture is sort of like a motor winder on a 35mm and who can argue with a stabilized 10x lense. Lot of talk about build quality...I get the impression that a lot of "professionals" drop their camera a lot. E100 aperture and shutter priority gimmicks..not likely. Most pros have several cameras so its not likely that they expect one camera to do all jobs. It is nice that a person familiar with their equipt. can grab that shot just in time but I will bet that even the experts sometimes wish they had released that shutter just a little bit sooner. This is not to demean pros or experts in the field and forget the cost of E100RS. This camera has some very nice features, For what its worth....Gerry
I am the guy who posted "put an E100 RS in the bottom of camera bag" in the prodigital forum. The context started out on equipt pro versus amateur and degenerated into pro versus amateur people. I go to the pro forums to learn a bit from pros. I have always felt that professional was a state of mind as opposed to merely getting paid for it. I have to commend the air of professional courtesy shown in the thread I am in right now is far superior to the thread in the pro digital. By the way they ignored my comment on E100...typical...but I glad to say someone noticed (john D1)
Back to the E100. I have larger pixel digital cameras + 35mm but purchased E100 for precapture and stabilized lense and the price was so low that it would be foolish to pass up. Gimmicks...precapture is sort of like a motor winder on a 35mm and who can argue with a stabilized 10x lense. Lot of talk about build quality...I get the impression that a lot of "professionals" drop their camera a lot. E100 aperture and shutter priority gimmicks..not likely. Most pros have several cameras so its not likely that they expect one camera to do all jobs. It is nice that a person familiar with their equipt. can grab that shot just in time but I will bet that even the experts sometimes wish they had released that shutter just a little bit sooner. This is not to demean pros or experts in the field and forget the cost of E100RS. This camera has some very nice features, For what its worth....Gerry
--Gerry
Carmen Towles
Senior Member
Well you know I had to jumb in here...but I will just say so as not to rebeat what has already been written Ditto and Ditto to Jason and Smoke...I could not have said it beter myself.... ^
Carmen
Carmen
Andreas P.
Veteran Member
Jason,
The reason for me to buy it was the 15fps and precapture.
D7 a lot of people seems to be fooled by the light weight of it.
The only thing which i considered as fragile on the D7 was the plastic
manual focus ring.
I always considered the quality of the lens as very good (definately better than the lens of the E100RS)
problem.
Correction: E10 pictures, sometimes seems to contain a bit more noise than similar pictures taken with its competitors
Regards,
Andreas
I owned the C2100 too. The only mechanical difference to the C2100 which i see (beside the color), is the eyepiece and the rubber which covers the lens element.
The reason for me to buy it was the 15fps and precapture.
Well, i have no reason to defend any brand nor model. In aspect of the
D7 a lot of people seems to be fooled by the light weight of it.
The only thing which i considered as fragile on the D7 was the plastic
manual focus ring.
Well, my experience was a sometimes unreliable autofocus.
I always considered the quality of the lens as very good (definately better than the lens of the E100RS)
Focus problems with the F707? Please elaborate this!
I know that i probably will offend the E10/20 fans, this camera has a noise
problem.
Correction: E10 pictures, sometimes seems to contain a bit more noise than similar pictures taken with its competitors
Regards,
Andreas
Andrew Carpenter
Well-known member
Holland,
How are you testing the manual WB measurement? I've had very good results measuring off the white side of a Kodak card.
Exactly what disappointments are you experiencing?
Andy.
How are you testing the manual WB measurement? I've had very good results measuring off the white side of a Kodak card.
Exactly what disappointments are you experiencing?
Andy.
--Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/anc
Jason Stoller
Veteran Member
Andreas do you understand the difference between how a Progressive read works and how an Interlaced read works?
The E-100 uses an Electronic shutter on the CCD! That is where your higher shutter speeds come from. The E-100 works differently than the 2100!
As far as the lens being compared to the E-100, I have no clue about that! But if the Camera cannot focus it does not matter how good the lens is! It has also been noted and I will find it if its necessary that there are problems with the lense quality in the D7. I do know the camera is basically plastic and only has a dummy hot shoe! The write times have been known also for not allowing you to do anything else while it was writing. I think I read a post where someone attempted using it in a studio. If necessary I will find that post also for you. They claimed the D7 was too slow and they had experienced other problems with it as well.
See the Sony users forum and what the actual owners have said! Focus in certain lighting conditions has been a problem. Color rendition also!
Agreed, both the OLY E-10 and E-20 have noise but so do other digital Camera's. The Sony as well as the D7, and E-20 all share the same CCD. What is different is the interpolation software applied in the camera.
Now we get to something very subjective here. To really tell about how much noise there is will be dependant upon the final print not your Monitor.
Its a given that no Two monitors even when calibrated will be exactly the same. So those who judge quality by web pictures alone are not getting accurate results. There are other variances as well, like graphic cards used and Montior construction. If you want a fair comparison then you have to take exactly the same picture with the different Camera's, with the same settings, and print them both on the same printer with no software processing applied. The proof will be in the pudding or the print in this case.
Please explain your foundation for this statement and your procedure used for comparing the images. I just recieved my E-20 yesterday! I already have the E-10 and the E-100. I have no idea what these other cameras have to do with the E-100 here so I appoligize if this is going off track!Correction: E10 pictures, sometimes seems to contain a bit more
noise than similar pictures taken with its competitors
Jason
--Jason Stoller [email protected] that special moment with a great camera
Andreas P.
Veteran Member
Jason,
camera. Beside of this i think that there are not a lot users who are concerned about this.
STF but maybe i missed this thread. So far the Holo AF works very reliable (at least in my camera).
monitor (always). So i am doubting here a bit...
Perhaps you can minimize the amount of noise by using the .NEF format.
Or you just consider it as the grain of film effect.
Regards,
Andreas
Well, this part probably was a misunderstanding. Of course it works different, this was the reason why i bought it.
This statement is too general. We all read Phil's review or some more moderate, serious user experiences, of course it can focus...
I really would like to see a reference here!
So far i know the major part of the body is made out of a magnesium alloy, but perhaps this was only in my dreams
Well, i think the D7 is not a point and shoot camera neither an action
camera. Beside of this i think that there are not a lot users who are concerned about this.
If you are refering to professional studio work, it must be a strange professional who is using a 1000 USD cam in a 10000 USD studio environment. But so far i know you can attach external flashes.
Please give me an exact thread reference here. I am reading a lot in the
STF but maybe i missed this thread. So far the Holo AF works very reliable (at least in my camera).
Well, strangewise the photos of a really highend camera also look good on a
monitor (always). So i am doubting here a bit...
No further work is needed here. Just take a look into Phil's galleries!
Perhaps you can minimize the amount of noise by using the .NEF format.
Or you just consider it as the grain of film effect.
Congratulations!
Regards,
Andreas
Similar threads
Keyboard shortcuts
- f
- Forum