Canon D30 Snobbery in rec.photo.digital

I was really surprised when I went to two popular, well known camera shops to look at the E20 and the D30 that I was dissuaded by both shops from buying the D30.

I told them I was perfectly willing to spend the extra amount, and even though they would have had a bigger sale and both stores had the D30 in stock, they still suggested that I go with the E20.

Their suggestion was that if I wanted an SLR with interchangeable lenses I should go with the Fuji (don't remember which model), or if money was no object (it was) the D1x.

I'm glad I went with the E20, but their suggestion was surprising, seems they thought it was crazy to spend that kind of loot on a 3 megapixel camera no matter what the quality.

I'm sure the D30 is a great camera as expressed by many at the Canon SLR forum.

Blang no offense, but the camera stores you went to don't sound very knowledgable or professional. I find that quality camera stores never show any bias. Most have very little photographic knowlege except for a couple of models. They never disagree with a customer, and know when to shut up. Sales reps that offer too much advice or show favortism towards some brands usually have the least amount of knowldge and definitely no sales future.

Best Regards,
Jim K

blang said:

I was really surprised when I went to two popular, well known
camera shops to look at the E20 and the D30 that I was dissuaded by
both shops from buying the D30.

I told them I was perfectly willing to spend the extra amount, and
even though they would have had a bigger sale and both stores had
the D30 in stock, they still suggested that I go with the E20.

Their suggestion was that if I wanted an SLR with interchangeable
lenses I should go with the Fuji (don't remember which model), or
if money was no object (it was) the D1x.

I'm glad I went with the E20, but their suggestion was surprising,
seems they thought it was crazy to spend that kind of loot on a 3
megapixel camera no matter what the quality.

I'm sure the D30 is a great camera as expressed by many at the
Canon SLR forum.

Click to expand...

Pekka Saarinen also started a thread in Canon SLR about this thread. Since I am a regular there too I replied with a thoughful fair representation of the Oly forum, and also commented I felt he was over dramatising this thread and over simplifing everything. He never responded to my post, but I noticed since then he has responded to many more here on this thread when ever it was an opportunity to challenge some one.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&page=1&message=1757153

As I stated he is entitled to his opinion, and I agree with some of his comments, but it is clear to me know that he is enjoying the attention and provoking anger. I suggest we now consider the source and perhaps ignor his posts. He is not looking for real discussion only arguments.

Regards,
Jim K

Makes perfect sense -- the two top earners are Olympus and Fuji -- by that I mean the most profit to camera shops are from selling these product lines - Fuji even throws-in a few free cameras from time to time.

I don’t know about Canon – my dealer is a Nikon main agent but the discount is very flat and Nikon demand payment when due and have minimum order limitations – presumably Canon are the same – so a deal won’t want to handle them too often – except for big customers – the ordinary Joe off the street will be fobbed off with the most profitable lines or what’s in stock all the time.

Jason Stoller said:

I think you both miss several points of each other in this case.
Its not the camera you use but the results you get.

Click to expand...

Jason,

The second message I posted in this thread addressed this point:

"One more caution in these types of arguments: I have heard people say that it isn't the camera, but the man (person) behind the camera that counts more. Well, fine, but that is beside the point. We all know that we need certain capabilities in a camera to be able to get the images we want - such as manual control over focus, exposure, DOF, etc, and a PC contact to use studio or other auxiliary flashes, SLR viewing with fine focusing capability, and good ergonomics with ease of setting all the variables. And rapid shutters so we can capture the moment we want! Some of these requirements put some cameras out of contention, but the E is not one of them. It has all of the features a pro would need except interchangeable lenses, which is NOT a problem if the E series lens is adequate for your needs."

Gary Eickmeier

stripes said:

Member said:

Actually, I don't know how to link to a newsgroup message. There is no URL that I can find. Can you enlighten me on this?

Click to expand...

Look in the headers for a line like "Message-ID:
" (you may have to
find a menu item like "view full headers", in trn the keyboard
command is "v"). The URL is "news:" and the stuff from inside the
angle brackets, for example
news:[email protected] ...or maybe
news: [email protected] -- I forget
exactly which.

Click to expand...

Thanks! I'll try that.

Member said:

It may not have been your intent, but if you hold someone's actions
up as an example of some sort of behavior (camera snobbery) you are
pretty much implying that they are the kind of person who engages
in that sort of behavior... at least unless you go out of your
way to assert that that is unusual behavior on their part.

Click to expand...

Well, it just seems to be a leap to go from Pekka is engaging in D30 snobbery to Pekka is a snob. We all engage in E10/20 snobbery to a certain extent, but we are not snobs - are we? Well, we love our camera choice, but we don't claim you can tell the results from a Nikon 995 or something. But then, neither did Pekka. Guess I was wrong.

Gary Eickmeier

Jim K said:

Pekka Saarinen also started a thread in Canon SLR about this
thread. Since I am a regular there too I replied with a thoughful
fair representation of the Oly forum, and also commented I felt he
was over dramatising this thread and over simplifing everything. He
never responded to my post, but I noticed since then he has
responded to many more here on this thread when ever it was an
opportunity to challenge some one.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&page=1&message=1757153

As I stated he is entitled to his opinion, and I agree with some of
his comments, but it is clear to me know that he is enjoying the
attention and provoking anger. I suggest we now consider the source
and perhaps ignor his posts. He is not looking for real discussion
only arguments.

Click to expand...

Oh please mr no-surname....... now YOU are categorizing and accusing people.

All I can say is 'sigh'.

I did not start this thread. It was others who talked about my views before I came in. If you'd know me AT ALL you'd be surprised what you find. And "enjoying the attention and provoking anger" is not there. I get pissed from time to time, but next day it's usually forgotten - read my ONLY response to the thread you talked about in Canon forum and you'll see what I'm talking about: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&page=2&message=1757944

Pekka

blang said:

I was really surprised when I went to two popular, well known
camera shops to look at the E20 and the D30 that I was dissuaded by
both shops from buying the D30.

I told them I was perfectly willing to spend the extra amount, and
even though they would have had a bigger sale and both stores had
the D30 in stock, they still suggested that I go with the E20.

Their suggestion was that if I wanted an SLR with interchangeable
lenses I should go with the Fuji (don't remember which model), or
if money was no object (it was) the D1x.

I'm glad I went with the E20, but their suggestion was surprising,
seems they thought it was crazy to spend that kind of loot on a 3
megapixel camera no matter what the quality.

Click to expand...

Well the Fuji they were recommending is also a 3 megapixel camera which costs the same as the D30 but is based on a very low end obsolete Nikon body. Nikons D1h, which costs far more than either the Fuji or the Canon, actually has fewer pixels than either. Even the D1x has fewer vertical pixels than the Fuji and Canon. The fact is, interchangaable lens SLRs cost more per pixel but give you much bigger pixels. Personally, if money was an issue I would certainly buy a E series, but probably the E-10. The price perfomance is much better and the E-20 costs almost as much as a D30 (not including lens).

Clearly neither camera store has staff who know anyting about digital cameras. I would suggest that you look to this website and others for camera advice. You should also consider buying any future cameras from reputable web vendors. They will charge less and the customer service will probably not be any worse.

Pekka Saarinen said:

Oh please mr no-surname....... now YOU are categorizing and
accusing people.

All I can say is 'sigh'.

I did not start this thread. It was others who talked about my
views before I came in. If you'd know me AT ALL you'd be surprised
what you find. And "enjoying the attention and provoking anger" is
not there. I get pissed from time to time, but next day it's
usually forgotten - read my ONLY response to the thread you talked
about in Canon forum and you'll see what I'm talking about:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&page=2&message=1757944

Pekka

Click to expand...

Pekker, you are enjoying every bit of this attention, which by the way you do not deserve. Most people can see you are only trying to stir trouble. You may not have started this thread, but you started the one in the canon forum about it, and you are doing everyting you can to keep it going. As for your photo's they are IMHO very non inspiring, they do not do the D30 justice and proves that the true worth is in the talent and not the tool. Enjoy your fifteen minutes of fame because after this thread dies your name will be just as forgotten as your photographs. Your lack of professionalism also does not do the canon slr forum any justice as I hope people will realize you are far from a typical representative of that fine forum.

JK

Matti,Did you actually read my post? Read it with comprehension ? In your original post, you stated that "D-30s with interchangeable lenses,are FAR superior image wise to the E-10/20s . As I stated before, your statement is incorrect. As far as your image comparison goes, I would stronly suggest that one interested in seeing what an E-10/20 can do in the hands of a gifted photographer check out some of the online galleries.Regarding your definition quote of what an SLR is , When one quotes another source, one should at least site the source. Functionly the E-10/20s are fixed lense SLR .Matti, you are entitled to your opinions as I am to mine. Good shooting

Matti J. said:

greg mclemore said:

Matti, I don,t usually get involved in these type of senseless
disscusions, ...

Click to expand...

Many thanks! Atleast the discussion just turn out to be much more
meaninfull now that you joined.

Matti J. said:

...but your remark about the d-30 images being far
superior to that from the e-10 is so incorrect that I just had to
respond.

Click to expand...

So incorrect? Do you mean E-10 is on par with D30... or even
better? Have to think about this new argument...

Matti J. said:

First the term SLR means single lense reflex, in my 30
years of photography the importance of using a slr has had more to
do with accurately seeing what I was about to shoot.

Click to expand...

You are right but E-10 is not exactly SLR by definition altough
framing through the lens is the very essence of it. Look what I
found:

SLR (Single Lens Reflex)
A camera in which the lens you view through is the same lens used
to take the photo. SLRs are what most people think of as "pro"
cameras. Most of them feature large, interchangeable lenses and an
advanced degree of creative control. A mirror directs the image up
onto a focusing screen the exact same distance from the lens as the
film is. As the exposure is made, the mirror swings out of the way,
and then the shutter fires.

Matti J. said:

Lastly the
images from the e-10 are very good.

Click to expand...

I didn't say E-10 images are not good - I admit: they are good,
just said D30 images are better and thanks to vast selection of
lenses, in good hands it is superior.

Enough said, compare these:



Which ones would you choose?

Matti J. said:

Their are cameras that have
...
both cameras in a gifted photographers hands will yield
excellent results, now that is the truth.

Click to expand...

Well you said it and I cannot but agree. But by definition the D30
+ quality lense combination cannot be beaten image wise by E-10.

Matti J.

Click to expand...

Jim K said:

Pekka Saarinen said:

Oh please mr no-surname....... now YOU are categorizing and
accusing people.

All I can say is 'sigh'.

I did not start this thread. It was others who talked about my
views before I came in. If you'd know me AT ALL you'd be surprised
what you find. And "enjoying the attention and provoking anger" is
not there. I get pissed from time to time, but next day it's
usually forgotten - read my ONLY response to the thread you talked
about in Canon forum and you'll see what I'm talking about:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&page=2&message=1757944

Pekka

Click to expand...

Pekker, you are enjoying every bit of this attention, which by the
way you do not deserve. Most people can see you are only trying to
stir trouble. You may not have started this thread, but you started
the one in the canon forum about it, and you are doing everyting
you can to keep it going. As for your photo's they are IMHO very
non inspiring, they do not do the D30 justice and proves that the
true worth is in the talent and not the tool. Enjoy your fifteen
minutes of fame because after this thread dies your name will be
just as forgotten as your photographs. Your lack of professionalism
also does not do the canon slr forum any justice as I hope people
will realize you are far from a typical representative of that fine
forum.

JK

Click to expand...

After all your bullets are wasted you start insulting me!?

How can anyone enjoy negative attention? Do you think I'm some kind of a pervert?

Your mail clearly stated that you are not fitted with all marbles and so this was the last time I'll discuss anything with you.

Good day.

Just a sec Brian, surely you and Pekka are saying the same thing. Aren't fora wonderful?!

Martyn

Brian Mackey said:

Pekka should compare apples to apples...

Click to expand...

Brian Mackey said:

Brian Mackey said:

Brian Mackey said:

Pekka Saarinen has some comments in the rec.photo.digital newsgroup
"There is absolutely no point to compare D30 to E20. If some people
think there is, because Olympus marketing calls it an SLR, they are
wrong. E20 is not a real SLR - it's a fixed lens SLR emulation camera.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Jim,

Lay off Pekka. He didn't start this thread and he was asking for support on the Canon forum.

You're hardly the one to complain about someone not responding to your post. You do it all the time, yourself. And its not like you've always been a good forum user at other forums.

Joo

Jim K said:

Pekka Saarinen also started a thread in Canon SLR about this
thread. Since I am a regular there too I replied with a thoughful
fair representation of the Oly forum, and also commented I felt he
was over dramatising this thread and over simplifing everything. He
never responded to my post, but I noticed since then he has
responded to many more here on this thread when ever it was an
opportunity to challenge some one.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&page=1&message=1757153

As I stated he is entitled to his opinion, and I agree with some of
his comments, but it is clear to me know that he is enjoying the
attention and provoking anger. I suggest we now consider the source
and perhaps ignor his posts. He is not looking for real discussion
only arguments.

Regards,
Jim K

Click to expand...

hmmmm, no I dont think so

Martyn said:

Martyn

Brian Mackey said:

Pekka should compare apples to apples...

Click to expand...

Martyn38590 said:

Martyn38590 said:

Martyn38590 said:

Pekka Saarinen has some comments in the rec.photo.digital newsgroup
"There is absolutely no point to compare D30 to E20. If some people
think there is, because Olympus marketing calls it an SLR, they are
wrong. E20 is not a real SLR - it's a fixed lens SLR emulation camera.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Joo said:

Jim,

Lay off Pekka. He didn't start this thread and he was asking for
support on the Canon forum.

You're hardly the one to complain about someone not responding to
your post. You do it all the time, yourself. And its not like
you've always been a good forum user at other forums.

Joo

Click to expand...

Pekker may not have started this thread, but it is clear to most people that he only seeks attention and is enjoying any attention he gets. The thread he started in Canon SLR forum for "support" as you put it, did not work for him as he only got a few to respond to his obvious trolling.

I suggest you read whats going on before you jump to quick conclusions. I defended his right to his opinion. But Pekker is not look for real discussions, only opportunities to challenge other peoples opinions, stir trouble and attack people's intelegence. So I tried to carry a non threating friendly discussion with him in the thread he started in canon slr where he totally misrepresented what had happened. He ignored my post, but responded to over 6 additional posts here in not so friendly terms. It is clear he is NOT looking to resolve issues or carry honest discusions, but only engage in bait and attack.

As for your usual uninsightful post to me I can only say that I do not usually respond to attacks or insults. If Pekker wants to play his game here then he has to deal with all responses, including mine. If he can't handle it, then he should leave. I would suggest the same for you.

Regards,
Jim K

greg mclemore said:

Matti,Did you actually read my post? Read it with comprehension ?
In your original post, you stated that "D-30s with interchangeable
lenses,are FAR superior image wise to the E-10/20s . As I stated
before, your statement is incorrect.

Click to expand...

Yes, I read! I read that you were repeating yourself. I understand you said my statement is incorrect. Well, I asked in what way it is incorrect "...Do you mean E-10 is on par with D30... or even better?...". I was given nothing. Should I give up asking you arguments? Nowadays everybody have opinions but arguments seem to be rare.

greg mclemore said:

As far as your image
comparison goes,

Click to expand...

If we are talking about picture quality... and I mean from a pure technical pixel level viewpoint, the comparison should make it quite clear that whether the subject is dark or light, the E-10 noise jumps at your face where D30 just shines.

In the facial comparison D30 skin colour accuracy and smoothness is overhelming. And these picture crops were really from a everyday pics that count for majority of us, not technical test pics. yes, the pictures where taken in equal conditions from equal subjects.

So please, if you wanna convince otherwise, please provide other pictures or atleast links to them where the E-10 can outperform D30. Pinpoint the details I should consider. Surprise me! I just believe you are not able, but anyhow give it a try. And if you cannot get into these details... well, then I just know you cannot because there are no suchs.

greg mclemore said:

I would stronly suggest that one interested in
seeing what an E-10/20 can do in the hands of a gifted photographer
check out some of the online galleries.

Click to expand...

What galleries do you strongly suggest? What galleries express the greatness of E-10 without noise and lack of dull colours? I'll happily check out those. I'd like to see especially original size files from E-10 (colour&sharpened) or not?

I've carefully examined the excellent galleries on http://www.belgiumdigital.com and the E-10 pictures there are very, very nice as far as photographic composition and artistic expression is conserned.

Main point is while the thumbnail size E-10 pictures are good too (in technical viewpoint) the bigger pictures are somewhat lacking the fantastic features D30 provide. Again they still seem to be lacking the lively colours and noiseless appearance of D30 and I have not seen the original size pictures else but on dpreview and other review sites. Comparing those original size pics (just like the comparo I provided) reveals the difference again and again.

If you cannot see the difference, it must be (A.) something wrong with your perception/eye sight or (B.) you happen to like some noise and paleness seen on E-10 pics. Remedy on A: see your doctor and B: it is a matter of opinion and preference and nothing can be (or need to be done if you don't deny your preference).

greg mclemore said:

Regarding your definition
quote of what an SLR is , When one quotes another source, one
should at least site the source. Functionly the E-10/20s are fixed
lense SLR.

Click to expand...

It was not a quote, it was a (my) composition of definitions (textlines) found on the web but there was nothing fabricated by me. You can find the definitions yourself and find the same textlines in many glossaries. Or don't you agree with something I stated about SLR definition? OK, E-10 is fixed lens SLR but without reflex mirror, but not (read my lips) exactly plain SLR meeting ALL possible finesses of the definition. D30 meets all of them.

E-10 being SLR or not, at least it differs from D30 on three major points: fixed lens vs. interch. lens, consumer size CCD (physical) vs. huge CMOS and light splitting mirror vs. reflex lens. And these three features in D30 make the backbone of the D30 superiority on versatility and image quality.

And what comes to versatility, I'd like to see an E-10 picture taken with 15 mm (35mm equivalent) focal length. Or fish eye pic for that matter. Or 1200 mm FL. Well those lenses cost on D30, but you cannot take those pictures with E-10 with any money.

greg mclemore said:

greg mclemore said:

SLR (Single Lens Reflex)
A camera in which the lens you view through is the same lens used
to take the photo. SLRs are what most people think of as "pro"
cameras. Most of them feature large, interchangeable lenses and an
advanced degree of creative control. A mirror directs the image up
onto a focusing screen the exact same distance from the lens as the
film is. As the exposure is made, the mirror swings out of the way,
and then the shutter fires.
Enough said, compare these:



Matti J.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Michael Brown said:

Well, to split hairs, the E10/20 are not strictly speaking SLRs
since the R in SLR stands for "Reflex" which implies the use of a
mirror to send the beam to the viewfinder instead of the shutter
(and film) and the E10/20 use a prism to split the beam into two
paths. However, by any sensible criteria the E10/20 cameras are
SLRs.

Click to expand...

I've read that the "reflex" term means a kind of functionality: when the shutter is pressed, the camera does all the things it has to do to take the picture correctly and once it has been taken it immediately returns the camera to "viewer" mode automatically. This can mean moving a mirror or activating a shutter system or (always I think) setting the aperature and then opening it up again. Whatever happens inside the camera to do this isn't important as long as it happens as a "reflex" to pressing the shutter button.

Jim K wrote (to Pekka Saarinen):

Jim K53618 said:

... As for your photo's they are IMHO very
non inspiring, they do not do the D30 justice and proves that the
true worth is in the talent and not the tool.
...

Click to expand...

Fortunately there are lot of fellow photographers who think absolutely opposite. That is: Photos taken by Pekka Saarinen are very inspiring and they do the D30 justice in many great ways!

Cheers,
Matti Jarventausta

Jim,

Using you're old tactics now, are you? It looks like you can't handle the discussions, since you are resorting to calling Pekka, 'Pekker'. I have read the posts on this thread and over at the Canon SLR forum, prior to posting.

Defending someone's right to post is different than verbally attacking them. Which you have clearly done in this thread by calling him 'Pekker'. Perhaps he isn't looking to have an honest discussion here, but it seems that some Oly SLR forum members aren't capable of it either. Perhaps he did respond to people in an unfriendly manner. But just look at the response that was generated when someone genuinely asked for opinions comparing the Oly E-10 and the Minolta Dimage 7. You're being a hypocrite when you complain about Pekka being 'not so friendly'.

So what if he ignored your post? Again, my point stands, people will not always respond to posts, as your own actions, or lack of, should demonstrate. Do you want a lollipop or something?

Regarding my 'uninsightful' posts to you. You presented generalizations. When I presented facts to counter your generalizations, you just closed your trap like a clam. You were NEVER able to intelligently discuss the details. And then there is also the matter of the broken promise.

You are getting all worked up over this. You don't seem to be able to handle it. You should just stop posting. In fact, you should leave the forum.

Joo

Jim K said:

Joo said:

Jim,

Lay off Pekka. He didn't start this thread and he was asking for
support on the Canon forum.

You're hardly the one to complain about someone not responding to
your post. You do it all the time, yourself. And its not like
you've always been a good forum user at other forums.

Joo

Click to expand...

Pekker may not have started this thread, but it is clear to most
people that he only seeks attention and is enjoying any attention
he gets. The thread he started in Canon SLR forum for "support" as
you put it, did not work for him as he only got a few to respond to
his obvious trolling.

I suggest you read whats going on before you jump to quick
conclusions. I defended his right to his opinion. But Pekker is not
look for real discussions, only opportunities to challenge other
peoples opinions, stir trouble and attack people's intelegence. So
I tried to carry a non threating friendly discussion with him in
the thread he started in canon slr where he totally misrepresented
what had happened. He ignored my post, but responded to over 6
additional posts here in not so friendly terms. It is clear he is
NOT looking to resolve issues or carry honest discusions, but only
engage in bait and attack.

As for your usual uninsightful post to me I can only say that I do
not usually respond to attacks or insults. If Pekker wants to play
his game here then he has to deal with all responses, including
mine. If he can't handle it, then he should leave. I would suggest
the same for you.

Regards,
Jim K

Click to expand...

Matti,slow down, relax, take a deep breath, and read what I wrote in response to your original post .I strongly corrected your very erronous statement where you said that the D-30s images are FAR superior to that from a E-10/20.I am not saying that the E-10/20s image quality is on par or better than that produce by a D-30. Open your eyes Matti, I am saying that the D-30s in my opinion is not FAR superior image wise.Maybe the results that you are able to get from the D-30 is FAR superior to what you are able to get from the E-10/20.As far as arguing I am expressing my opinion, that opinion is based on what I've seen. there are very talented photographers using both D-30 AND E-10s .Arguing is foolish. As far as your comment about me trying to convince someone that one is far better than the other image wise, that is your neighborhood, not mine, Iam meerly giving my opinion, much like you did. .Since you imply that you do not know where to find gifted work done with E-10s check out Belgium Digital and gallerys by some of the talented phographers on this site. LOOK!Lastly stop changing ones words , I never said that the E-10 was great, stop trying to change the content of what I said to strengthen your pointless position. What can be gained by attempting to minimize a group of users of a specific camera in favor of another group.Stop the negativity.You could of got your point across a lot more affectively if you you used a little tack. My response to you was regarding your original statement about the D-30 having Far better image quality than the E-10, a statement that in my opinion is not true.Everyone knows that the canons images are smoother than that produced by the E-10. they are both very good cameras you are in error where you said Far, implying a very big difference, that is where I disagree with you. Matti get up from your computer and go out and use that great D-30.This dialog is pointless .

Gary Eickmeier said:

Pekka Saarinen has some comments in the rec.photo.digital newsgroup
about the superiority of the D30 over the E10 or E20. He says

"There is absolutely no point to compare D30 to E20. If some people
think there is, because Olympus marketing calls it an SLR, they are
wrong. E20 is not a real SLR - it's a fixed lens SLR emulation camera.

"Why put your money into a system where lens a body are welded
together? If there is a flaw in either, you have to dump the whole
system. If you don't have enough range of aperture or ISO, you're
stuck. It's often a question of getting a photo or not getting a
photo."

I downloaded and printed out some pix from each from Phil's
reviews. I made sure there was lots of blue sky and detail in each.
I then printed them both at 7x10 size. To me, it's a tossup which
is superior. They aren't identical images, but it is still not
night and day or even close. I did note that the picture size had
the E20 file at 256ppi, whereas the Canon was only 216ppi at the
same size.

I also noticed in the reviews of each that the absolute/extinction
resolution of the Canon was 1150/1350, whereas for the E20 it was
1350/1650 or so. Big difference, and this is taking into account
everything from the CCD to the "welded on lens."

Let's get real here. Do you guys think the D30 snobbery is caused
by true performance superiority, or are they just trying to justify
a more expensive purchase? If price were no object, would you
rather have an E20 or a D30, D1X, whateva?

Gary Eickmeier

Click to expand...