why are people disappointed with 30D?

ctransj

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First i am not Canon guy but I don't understand why:
Canon people : not impressed, dissapointed.

Other people: try to down play the 30D think their brands will come out something better. In fact, they don't.

my 2cents:
  • 30D has a lot of improvements over 20D
  • Poeple are upgrading from 300D/350D to 20D then why not 30D?
  • 30D is aiming for new users who has a little more money and don't like small 350XT.
  • Poeple want a perfect, all features they can think of but want to pay small. Get to reality please.
  • It's not just throwing features into the camera but: cost, technical difficulty, market, size.. all factors. Do you think you know better than Canon who designed it?
 
The 30d really isn't enough of an improvement to give it a new name, and I think that's what really is bugging people. It should probably have been called 20d+ or something like it. If you were going to buy the 20d anyway, the 30d is a nicely tweaked improvement, and slightly cheaper to boot. But if you were holding off on the 20d for some reason, there is nothing here to entice you.

There's this huge, gaping void between the 20/30d and the 5d, and I think many people expected the 20d successor to fill it. This sort of signals that Canon is fine with this gap, and it also signals that the entry-level 350D successor is not going to see much improvement either (or it would outcompete the 30d).

--
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What's in a name?

I assume that Canon knows full well about the GAP. There is no reason to believe that they are done forever with new cameras. Maybe they have a whole new naming system in mind for a whole new line between the 30D and the 5D. How about the 17.5D? Maybe they will be really innovative and announce between PMA and Photokina.
--
Rick
 
If the 30D has 10+ megapixels, then most people would be happy.

Most people are miffed than Canon is re-using an "old" sensor in a "new" camera.
First i am not Canon guy but I don't understand why:
Canon people : not impressed, dissapointed.
Other people: try to down play the 30D think their brands will come
out something better. In fact, they don't.

my 2cents:
  • 30D has a lot of improvements over 20D
  • Poeple are upgrading from 300D/350D to 20D then why not 30D?
  • 30D is aiming for new users who has a little more money and
don't like small 350XT.
  • Poeple want a perfect, all features they can think of but want to
pay small. Get to reality please.
  • It's not just throwing features into the camera but: cost,
technical difficulty, market, size.. all factors. Do you think you
know better than Canon who designed it?
--
http://www.dmmphotography.com
 
I think the negative reaction is way overblown. It tells me that people are frustrated in that they were willing to spend more money to get more camera and now they are faced with either stepping way up to the 1 series or the 5D.
 
I know there are all kind of market segments: features, price points.. but if the segment is small, Canon or any manufuctures will ignore it or they will charge premium price.

30D is very a reasonable release from Canon, they don't want to shoot in to their own foot by releasing too many models to compete themselves. 5D will be drop and Canon probably working on the lower version of 5D to make it affordable to someone to close the gap.
 
You bet. Where is the competition to the new Nikon?

It seems the BIG N, has caught Canon by surprise.

BP
 
people not happy because Nikon has a D200 at the same price range :)

--
Best Regards,
KOH KHO KING
www.ShaShinKi.com[ [I] url] Malaysia Online Camera Store! [/I]
 
I think that most Canon users are dissappointed because Canon has been beating this mantra into everybody's heads: "more megapixels make a better camera". But now they release 30D without bumping the megapixel count, so the MP counters are unhappy.

The same people may be unhappy since the Nikon's direct competition has more MP than 30D.

Personally, I'm quite happy with my 6MP for now. :) I'm sure that 30D is a great camera.
--
Arcady Genkin
http://agenkin.fotokritik.ru/
 
Over the series D30, D60, 10D, 20D Canon made significant technical improvements to the sensor with every release of the camera and established a position of clear leadership for APS-C sensor technology. The 30D is the first time we have seen a new model from Canon with minimum improvements in the key technology items. Nothing for the sensor, the AF, or the image processing ASIC. At the same time others are becoming more competitive. Sure the 30D is still a very good camera. The fact that it is still at 8 megapixels when others are at 10 is not a big deal. But at best it puts Canon as one of the pack and possibly not quite up to the competition that it has been dominating. Certainly if I look at the choices now in comparison with the choices at the time the 20D appeared, for APS-C sized sensors, Canon is a much less compelling choice than it used to be.
--
David Jacobson
http://www.pbase.com/dnjake
 
I believe the 30D ( from all the news I've read ) a worthwhile upgrade. What I can surmon is that people are just too caught up on new models must have something extra or leap in MP or so. But ttruth is all these DSLR today pretty much hit a threshold ( especially with the 8 to 10 MP range ) and its refinement, evolutionary improvement that will drive new models.

Beside, what do all those guy expect, a FF, come on its not like Canon going to hit their own sales of the 5D right !!

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Franka
 
For me, the 30D is not a worthwhile upgrade from the 350D. My first digital camera was the Canon 300D. I moved to the 350D due to better detail from 8 MP than 6 MP. The detail is important to me because I love landscape photography. The 300D's 6 MP did not render foliage as I desired. The 350D's 8 MP comes close. I was hoping 10 MP would bring me closer.

This is not to say the 30D is a bad camera. It definitely is not my camera.
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thezero
 
First i am not Canon guy but I don't understand why:
Canon people : not impressed, dissapointed.
Other people: try to down play the 30D think their brands will come
out something better. In fact, they don't.

my 2cents:
  • 30D has a lot of improvements over 20D
Yes, minor ones, many of them overdue, like the spot meter.
  • Poeple are upgrading from 300D/350D to 20D then why not 30D?
Yeah, but why would anyone upgrade from the 20D to the 30D? $1,300 is not exactly pocket change.
  • 30D is aiming for new users who has a little more money and
don't like small 350XT.
Yeah, but those new users are getting fewer and fewer. There are only so many users left have haven't bought a DSLR. Sooner or later you would want to come up with cameras that would lure existing DSLR owners to upgrade. The 30D certainly does not do that for 20D users or even Rebel XT users.
  • Poeple want a perfect, all features they can think of but want to
pay small. Get to reality please.
As I said, $1,300 is not exactly pocket change. So, I predict that many 20D owners will simply wait for the next, real upgrade.
  • It's not just throwing features into the camera but: cost,
technical difficulty, market, size.. all factors. Do you think you
know better than Canon who designed it?
Absolutely, users know more than Canon what they want in a camera. Users know they want spot metering; Canon did not think they do, for example.
 
...is that this offers an opportunity for Canon's competitors to even the score. Canon always seemed to be a step ahead with their sensors, but now they are going to stay at 8MP, let's hope for 8MP successors to the D70s and *ist, and competiting offers from Panasonic and Sony.
 
First, what is the 30D?

It's a replacement for the 20D. It has some minor improvements, and it will be slightly cheaper. I concur, that the changes are so mild, it should be the 20D+ or following Canon's corporate naming logic, 20Dmk2.

Second, why are people dissapointed?

They Expected more. The problem of the 20D has of late been that it produces as many megapixels as the 350D, but costs almost twice as much. This will not significantly change. Clearly, the current prosumer evolution process for a canon dSLR user is supposed to be 3 digits, 2 digits, 1 digit, meaning 350D, 30D, 5D. The step between the 350D and the 30D is too small, there's not very much you can accomplish with a 30D you could not achieve with it's little brother, whereas, there's a huge step from the 30D to the 5D, as well pricewise, as otherwise. I hope this spells for the launch of a 7D, placed pricewise (and otherwise) smack between the 5D and 30D, but I guess that won't be happening.

Third, why are we worried?

Canon user's like me, are (want it or not) prettymuch married to their system. Changing over to, say Nikon, would mean not only learning a new system, but also an immense loss of money.

Changing system is not much easier than getting a divorce in real-life (depending on where you live).

Every time there's a trade show, like the PMA, the people who are married to a system sit at home and hope that there will be new announcements for their system.

This is not so much based on the logic: "Let's see what new canon gear I will buy...", It's mostly that those who are married to a system want to see announcements, which strengthen their belief that the marriage (read system), they've spent a lot of money to buy themselves into will be a lasting investment.

Most canon users like me, are probably looking at the PMA announcements to see signs of:
1# Canon's continued dedication to provide cutting edge gear.

2# Canon's continued support for the gear (e.g. EF or EF-S) the user carries in his bag
3# Clear signs of product evolution
4# Keeping in front of Nikon

This last thing is not just a typically male territorial dispute. I've spent almost all my spare cash on cameras and optics for the last 18 months. Seeing Canon in front of Nikon makes me feel better of my investment (read squandering). These thingies cost immense amounts, and two critical points of view every marketing person must think of is "How can we help the customer justify his spending?" and "What can we do to avoid buyers remorse?"

The three pre-PMA announcements so far are a minor upgrade to a dSLR body, an new version of a very nice piece of glass, and a new EF-S lens.

Now I personally hope there will be much more to come, because:
  • a 1100$ EF-S lens will not be at the top of the buying list for very many. EF-S is the choice of a person who has comitted himelf to the 1.6 crop, and althought that lens will be very needed, many will feel anxiety at the thought of buying it. Also anyone who owns even one EOS dSLR which does not support EF-S (Incidentally I do not have a single EF-S compatible body), will not buy that, or any other EF-S lens.
  • an update on one of canon's admittedly finest pieces of glass. Now frankly, I've been around many current 85L users (I personally make do with the 85/1.8), and have read many threads and discussions about the previous version of the 85L, and NEVER have I heard anyone seriously complaining about the AF speed or the need for improving support for E-TTL II.
It's a super-wide aperture lens for cryin' out loud. You buy it not only for a shallow DOF, You want to use it in natural light. I've actually never seen it used with a flash (although I assume some might do that).
  • the 20Dmk2, is not what was expected. Canon-husbands and -wives worldover had hoped to see Canon's answer to the Nikon D200, which this clearly is not. What peeves me personally is that although the 20Dmk2 is slightly cheaper than the original 20D, I'm ready to bet a small fortune it's profitability is waaay better.
Current 20D owners will not upgrade in flocks. current 10D, 300D and 350D owners will consider it, but they might just as well go into the single-digits or buy a used 20D.

What would I need to make my investment feel secure?
  • A top-notch APS-C dSLR (min 10 mpix) or an entry-level 1.3 or 1.0 crop body by the end of the year. An update of the 350D by summer 2007 (at the latest)
  • optics:
20/1.8 USM
35/1.8 USM
50/1.2L USM
135/2L IS USM
200/1.8 IS USM
200/2.8 IS USM

EF 12-24 L4
EF 70-200 L4 IS USM
EF-S 18-200 IS USM (comp. NIKKOR AF-S DX VR 18-200/3.5-5.6G IFED)

2much said
Pekka
-
 
I don't own any Canon's at the moment, but it looks like a very decent camera to me. Professionaly speaking there isn't anything wrong with it. Within it's marketplace it is a fine camera.

So what if it is a matured 20D. I think the market for DC's and DSLRs is simply maturing. The big steps in higher and higer resolution and such are over.

A little story:

In 1997 I got my first DC, the Casio QV-10A, 320x240 pixels, yes sir! that's no less than 0.076 megapixels. Well the term megapixels didn't exist at that time, but okay.

In 1998 I bougt a -just released- 1.3 megapixel camera, the Agfa ePhoto 1680. That camera had 16 times!!! as many pixels as my first one. Think about it: 4 times bigger pictures (Length&Height) meaning 4 times more resolution.

Those days are gone...and will never return. Never again I saw that much progress in the DC scene. Sure after the 1.3 there was a 2.1 megapixel but that was merely 25% more resolution. And it got worse after that.

The megapixel race went on and on but got less and less significant after the 6 mp barrier.

I think 6 mp is more than enough for most types of photography and certainly more than enough for pop&mom stuff resulting in 4x6 (10x15cm) prints. I really think 6 mp is over the edge already for most people.

So Canon only bettered a good camera....so what...it's the sign of the time...

35 mm cameras (and slrs) didn't evolve from one year to the other much either...that time is there at last for the digital stuff as well. Thank god for that! Give it another 2 years and all the exitement will have died down and the gearheads will have found something else to persue...

Personally, I can't wait...

Theo
First i am not Canon guy but I don't understand why:
Canon people : not impressed, dissapointed.
Other people: try to down play the 30D think their brands will come
out something better. In fact, they don't.
 

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