There are two. Which one?would be nice to know how you came up with this figure
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Lee Jay
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New DX Sensor
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Lee Jay
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Julia Borg
Veteran Member
82000There are two. Which one?would be nice to know how you came up with this figure
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Julia
Julia Borg
Veteran Member
which means you actually projected forward your idea of the same technology. you may want to check this in direct experiment instead of faux pas
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Julia
I did, as did three others. Some did it with visual tests, others with imatest. It seems to be just a little bit more than this.
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Lee Jay
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Julia Borg
Veteran Member
well capacity of 20D is not 50,000 - more like 51,500.
Imatest is GIGO tool. Garbage In, Garbage Out.
well capacity of 5D is far less then what you suggest. it is much more closer to another Canon camera with the same pixel spacing.
12 bits is about 4095 levels (or 3700
82000/4095 =~ 20, means that readout noise of 5D should be abpout 3 times more then of 20D - or that 5D deserves 14-bit ADC --
Julia
Then why is shot noise lower on the pixel level by between 1/3 and 2/3 of a stop? Log2(8.2/6.4) = 0.357.
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Lee Jay
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Julia Borg
Veteran Member
you should first address well capacity question. after that we can return to "same technology" issue. technology scaling is a very delicate topic
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Julia
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Julia
I know. That's one of the things I do for a living.technology scaling is a very
delicate topic
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Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)
Julia Borg
Veteran Member
now you have one more example. I'm really waiting for your experimental data on the full well capacity of 5D compared to 20D, since you own both cameras. after that we can return to the "scaling vs. new technology" argument.I know. That's one of the things I do for a living.technology scaling is a very
delicate topic
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Julia
I already gave it to you. You weren't interested in empirical data and you berated the data from others that you haven't even seen.
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Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)
Julia Borg
Veteran Member
what? you gave me experimental data on 5D well capacity? I probably missed it
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Julia
dannv
Senior Member
Cal Tech?
CalTech?
who the Tech cares? i get enough of this from those arrogant SOBs from living here.
while you're nit picking things smart people don't care about try the proper spelling of 'circle' (hint: its not 'sensor'). we all make mistakes.
i expect mine was in responding to this thread. apologies to the forum for the rant...dav
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don't wait for technology -- it won't wait for you
CalTech?
who the Tech cares? i get enough of this from those arrogant SOBs from living here.
while you're nit picking things smart people don't care about try the proper spelling of 'circle' (hint: its not 'sensor'). we all make mistakes.
i expect mine was in responding to this thread. apologies to the forum for the rant...dav
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don't wait for technology -- it won't wait for you
I should have know better than to ask you a question. You kindly answered but, YOUR question made me go through a complete thread (from which, as usual, I learnt a lot).
Thank you.
Kindest regards
Raul
Kevin Morris
Leading Member
I've thought a lot about this and I guess the point is that Canon is saying, "Stick with us and you can choose between 3 different sensor sizes". Nikon is saying, "Ya wanta shoot Nikon, you're gonna shoot DX."
But on reflection, Canon doesn't actually offer a choice either. I've set my minimum standard at 10MP. If I want a dslr of 10MP or more, then Canon says "FF or nothing." Nikon says "DX or nothing."
So, in fact, Canon is not really offering a choice either - except at 8MP.
However, I suspect Canon will fill that gap much sooner than Nikon, although I hope I'm wrong.
Losing a bunch of money also makes me unhappy.
Me too. But it has kept me in the Nikon camp a bit longer - which is of no advantage to Nikon as I'm not buying anything until I've decided where my dslr dollars are going.
Assuming the earlier post was true, it seems that someone within Nikon is dropping the hints. Everything else since then has been speculation, including the project time frame of late 2006 to mid 2007.
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Tuktu Sijuktei
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Kerry Pierce
Forum Pro
Yes, that pretty much sums it up. I was a little disappointed with the 10mp, but I think it will work out okay for my needs.
Dunno. It depends on what happens with the 20d replacement. If it isn't 10 to 12mp, it's not going to be a big deal. The 5d might have put a cap on their DX bodies. Going from 8 to 12mp would be a significant advance, more incentive to upgrade or switch, than just going to 10 or staying at 8mp. Now, I'd be very surprised if they exceeded 10mp with their DX bodies, any time soon. Even that would likely put a crimp on 5d sales. Look at what is happening with the price of the d2x. It's less than a year old and the d200 isn't even out yet.
Me too, but if the d200 doesn't work out for my needs, I'll be looking at the competition. I don't expect that to happen, though.
Not sure which post you're talking about. I assume it's the chinese press thing. IMO, that was a meaningless statement. It wasn't a senior nikon official and they can safely say that they're doing R&D on it, for years.
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http://www.pbase.com/kerrypierce/root
Kevin Morris
Leading Member
It would be an interesting marketing challenge to have 2 x 12MP cameras side by side in their line-up. Presumably the DX version would be cheaper, so Canon would have to heavily play up the advantages of FF to sell the 5D at a higher price. But to do this, they would run the risk of infering that their DX camera was inferior in some way, and that wouldn't look good. Interesting.
Before the 5D arrived on the scene I would have agreed. But I think Nikon now has some serious incentive to deliver a FF model. It was easy to dismiss the 1DsII since it's price was up there in the financial stratosphere. By comparison, the 5D is very affordable.
But as I said, I'm prepared to wait until PMA 2007. That gives me 2 x PMAs and a Photokina.
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Tuktu Sijuktei
'Please tell me if the lens cap is on.'
Kerry Pierce
Forum Pro
The wildcard would be canon's perception of the market impact by the d200. It might be safe to assume that they learned of the d200 specs long ago, perhaps long enough to have it included in their calculations for their next DX body. Unless they view the d200 as a significant competitor for the middle market, my guess is that they'll come out with no more than 10mp, perhaps even remain at 8mp, but dress up the body with a few more goodies and hang their hat on better high ISO performance.
Dunno. The expense of the FF sensors guarantee a niche market. It depends on how important nikon views that market segment and how it fits into their future plans. Then, you have to believe that their FF entry would be at/below the 5d price point. I can't see a consumer body, as a first FF model. Will the pros be content with a 12 to 16mp FF, at a higher cost than the d2x? So, they'd probably be looking at 20+ MPs, which runs the cost of the sensor even higher. Then you have the FF issues to contend with. Would nikon be content to offer a FF without having some kind of solution to those problems?
On top of all that, you have to consider the fact that the low end market, where tons of money can be made, is going to tighten up. It doesn't seem wise for them to sit back and let the d50/d70 stagnate for 3 years, while the competition is offering new technology, higher MPs. The d70 will be 2 years old in March.
Well, I hope you get what you want, but I'm not nearly convinced that it will be a reality as some folks here seem to be. But, my crystal ball is in the shop, so I could easily be wrong.
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http://www.pbase.com/kerrypierce/root
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