Comparison using 2 A1's and firmware update 1.02/1.13 today

Welllllll, I wish I had better news regarding the two (1.02/1.13) firmware differences, but I don't. I have 2 A1's before me today and mine has 1.13 and the other has the original 1.02 on it. The 1.02 unit only has about 1400 images whereas mine has over 6,000 images on it. Cards were formatted each time when put into the other camera.
First, the write times:
256 Ultra
1 raw file 1.13 write light on to off = 10 sec.
" 1.02 " " " = 11 sec.
Extreme III 1 gig
1 raw file 1.13 write light on to off = 3 sec.
" " 1.02 " " " = 13 sec.

As hard as I tried, in all kinds of light levels/subjects, I could not detect one iota of focus speed difference between the two cameras/versions.

I also checked for possible flash exposure differences between the two and I found none at all for the two firmware/cameras I have used today.

As a sidelight, the differences between the two when using an older Ultra 256 card was so close as to not warrant an update in my mind. IOW, I found less than a one half second in write times between the two when using this card. Where the update really comes into its own is when I use either the Extreme III or the 2 gig Lexar 80x card. Then is when it really makes a huge difference, but for focus, flash and smaller (older) card usage, I found no benefit to upgrading whatsoever while measuring/using THESE TWO cameras side by side in like conditions.

What does this say to those who are sure the focus speed has increased manifold times? I really don't know other than to say the placebo affect is not reaching too far perhaps. Maybe the update DOES work differently in different cameras. I wouldn't think so, at least not to the degree some are sure it has, but who am I? Just a guy that has two "before and after" A1's to try it out on, is all. I will say this, the 1.02 unit has a much more contrasty EVF/LCD than my 1.13 version with all parameters set the same. Factory adjustment I suppose.

If anyone would like me to try another type of comparison, let me know in the next few hours, as I have to return the 1.02 version to its owner. I will not be updating it as he uses the 256 Ultra's and is quite happy to use only those cards and as such it doesn't warrant doing the update.
Okay, there it is from this part of the world!
Regards, Jim
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Jim N'AZ wrote:
[snip]

Jim N'AZ said:

The
1.02 unit only has about 1400 images whereas mine has over 6,000
images on it.

Click to expand...

[snip]

Jim N'AZ said:

If anyone would like me to try another type of comparison, let me
know in the next few hours

Click to expand...

Jim,

I think the problem is that the 1.02 camera has not been properly broken in. can take a quick 4,600 shots so that we might be able to level the playing field for a proper evaluation. ;-)

One thing I find odd (having nothing to do with your tests) is the great disparity in write time reported on the same card. I have a Kingston Elite Pro 2gb. I've seen reported write times up to 45 sec for one raw. my write times are about 14 secs. If the camera are identically built (A1) with same version firmware and the cards are the same, shouldn't write times be the same (+ or - a second for user error)?

I was one of the early "low light focus improvement" people. But, I wasn't sure if it was real or imaginary. Thanks for proving it was imaginary, now I can go back to complaining about the low light focus performance. LOL!

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Hi, Marc,

As to the vastly differing write times of the Kingston, I'm sure you are aware that you are "shooting on thin ice" with the Kingston brand and Minolta, eh? Seriously, of all cards made, the Kingston seems to cause more difficulties when used w/Minolta gear than any other brand. I have also read (cannot verify) that the Kingston cards have used many different controllers and this would speak directly to the disparity of timing with the Minolta. It would be really great to run both cards (14 sec and 45 sec.) in the same camera one time. BTW, are you using 1.13 to get the 14 second write time(s)? What was it b4 updating? I ask because my Lexar 80x 2GB writes a raw in 3-4 sec. after update and 17 sec. b4 update.
Regards, Jim

marc baumser said:

marc baumser said:

The
1.02 unit only has about 1400 images whereas mine has over 6,000
images on it.

Click to expand...

[snip]

marc baumser said:

If anyone would like me to try another type of comparison, let me
know in the next few hours

Click to expand...

Jim,
I think the problem is that the 1.02 camera has not been properly
broken in. can take a quick 4,600 shots so that we might be able
to level the playing field for a proper evaluation. ;-)

One thing I find odd (having nothing to do with your tests) is the
great disparity in write time reported on the same card. I have a
Kingston Elite Pro 2gb. I've seen reported write times up to 45
sec for one raw. my write times are about 14 secs. If the camera
are identically built (A1) with same version firmware and the cards
are the same, shouldn't write times be the same (+ or - a second
for user error)?

I was one of the early "low light focus improvement" people. But,
I wasn't sure if it was real or imaginary. Thanks for proving it
was imaginary, now I can go back to complaining about the low light
focus performance. LOL!

--
All shots are A1 unless otherwise noted
http://www.pbase.com/mbaumser

Click to expand...

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G'dag Jim
Very good of you to take the time to test - thanks.

I have read from some that they are sure the focus logic is different after the update, they claim to hear the motors work in a different rythm whne focusing in low light.

Just to check out the last straw: Can you hear any difference when focusing in low light?
--
Cheers
Peter

All about A1/A2: http://www.pbase.com/mtf_foto_studies/mtf_faq
my stuff: http://www.pbase.com/pmthor/

Peter, Actually, after I found the results of my comparison, I wish I had not opened my big mouth earlier that I was going to compare the firmware! I agree that some are quite fervent that the upgrade has done some of those other things besides boost write speeds. I really didn't want to crush anyone's happiness over percieved new found focus speed and/or flash now works better, etc.

After reading your post and query as to focus motor sounds possibly being different between the two, I had high hopes I could deliver some good news about the hidden benefits of the update. Alas, not to be. I just finished a rather exhausting time of planting my one good ear up against the zoom collar/lens barrel and focused until I got dizzy while switching between the two units. No difference in pitch, start/stop or length of motor sounds. Nada, none whatsoever, but this is only a small sampling and certainly not in the least bit scientific (remember the one good ear part above?) in view of the methods used! I then held both cameras up to my wife's TWO good ears and triggered them consecutively and she could not differentiate between the two.

There is a genuine, measurable and quantifiable difference in write speeds when updating to 1.13 AND using WA type cards, but I found no other changes on this end.... sigh....
Thanks, Peter.
Regards, Jim

pmthor said:

G'dag Jim
Very good of you to take the time to test - thanks.
I have read from some that they are sure the focus logic is
different after the update, they claim to hear the motors work in a
different rythm whne focusing in low light.
Just to check out the last straw: Can you hear any difference when
focusing in low light?
--
Cheers
Peter

All about A1/A2: http://www.pbase.com/mtf_foto_studies/mtf_faq
my stuff: http://www.pbase.com/pmthor/

Click to expand...

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Jim thanks again.

I have an updated A2 I have not noticed any diffeence apart from the writing times but had read a lot of the remarks so were curious as to wether it was true or not.

I'm not in the least surprised, while KM might have ironed out one or two bugs and kept quite aboout it so as not to acknowledge them, I'm certain that a substantial increase in focus speed would have been mentioned.

Please don't risk getting tinitus or other damages by all this testing I would much rather see some new pictures of Marilyn or the desert.
--
Cheers
Peter

All about A1/A2: http://www.pbase.com/mtf_foto_studies/mtf_faq
my stuff: http://www.pbase.com/pmthor/

The difference in write speed wasn't as dramatic in the Kingston as with the Sandisk Ultra II 1gb. With The sandisk I get time similar to yours 3-4 secs.

With the Kingston (I think I recall) my times being about 4 seconds longer than they are now. The Kingston is more a backup card for me. I've been in situations (Disney, a hotair Balloonfest) where I've run out of CF. The Kingston was on sale so I took a shot and it hasn't been to bad for me.

One other thing, (And this may be bloody obvious) is that "instant playback" (2 sec or 10 sec) extends the red light by about the same amount of time. My guess, is that the write doesn't begin until after the review period has ended (As I said, maybe bloody obvious)

Marc
--
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Jim --

Thanks for doing the testing. I wasn't expecting any focus speed increase with the new firmware, so it would surprise me if it was the placebo effect that made me think it was faster. It definitely sounds different to me (in bright light) and acts different (to me).

Oh well. Thanks again! Back to taking pictures!

RS

Jim N'AZ said:

As hard as I tried, in all kinds of light levels/subjects, I could
not detect one iota of focus speed difference between the two
cameras/versions.

Click to expand...

Not too surprising. I recall claims of a focus improvement from an earlier firmware upgrade as well. I did before/after tests with my A1 and found no change.

Like most everyone else, though, I have definitely noticed an improvement in write times, though, so at least I can be happy about that. ;-)

larsbc

Jim,

Which card did you do the focus tests with? My impression is that any operation in the camera the relies on memory access will be faster with the upgrade when coupled with an appropriate CF card. I'd go ahead and update you friends A1 ... you never know, he might just buy a better CF card in the future. Plus you never know what undocumented issues were addressed in the latest update. I believe I read on a KM web site that the update was 'required'.

--
cheers!
Rick Stirling
My A2 Gallery
http://rickster.org/gallery/albums.php

Long time no hear. Does my memory serve me right when I think we first inhabited the same Oly forum back when the E10 was introduced?

Rick, I used the Ultra 256 and both of my cards, Lexar 80x 2 GB and my Extreme III 1 GB for all the comparisons (funny, I can't bring myself to say "tests') and can report no focus changes between the two (1.02 and 1.13) updates that I was working with. Yes, in hindsight I think I probably should have updated his, but before I borrowed it, I warned him that the update could possibly go awry and he decided that with his low level of use and slow cards, he would let sleeping dogs lie and stay w/his non-updated A1.
Regards, Jim

William R Stirling said:

Jim,

Which card did you do the focus tests with? My impression is that
any operation in the camera the relies on memory access will be
faster with the upgrade when coupled with an appropriate CF card.
I'd go ahead and update you friends A1 ... you never know, he might
just buy a better CF card in the future. Plus you never know what
undocumented issues were addressed in the latest update. I believe
I read on a KM web site that the update was 'required'.

--
cheers!
Rick Stirling
My A2 Gallery
http://rickster.org/gallery/albums.php

Click to expand...

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Hi Jim,

Never had an Olympus ... maybe the Nikon forum? ;-)

--
cheers!
Rick Stirling
My A2 Gallery
http://rickster.org/gallery/albums.php

OK, I know I'm grasping at straws here, but I'm trying to protect my own image of my sanity. I KNOW there's a difference in my camera.

Here's my theory:

Previous firmware updates contained only a single file, right? And, I don't think they required battery removal after the update, right? Stay with me here.

Maybe some of the older A1 cameras had a different focus method. My camera was firmware version 1.0, I believe. All the updates to date changed/fixed various things, but only the most recent one affected the focus software and brought the older cameras up to the new standard.

RS

Jim,

Thanks for your continuing support of this forum. My 40x Lexar 512s are recording RAW images in about 3 seconds for one, and a burst of 5 in just over 15 seconds. I do believe that focus in low light at full telephoto is less iffy, but I can't claim that science is on my side here but the improvement in write speed is certainly remarkable.

Paul

G'dag Rittersport

Sorry to disappoint you, but I just read he instructions for A1 upgrade to version 1.12e and it says there that there are 3 files and that the batteries should be removed.
I don't know about possible earlier upgrades though.
--
Cheers
Peter

All about A1/A2: http://www.pbase.com/mtf_foto_studies/mtf_faq
my stuff: http://www.pbase.com/pmthor/

OK, I give in. I'll just have to continue enjoying the A1 as it is. Life could be worse.

RS

......that it didn't introduce that stupid A2 "200mm F7" P-Mode bug into the A1 ! . KM want to fix that with the A2 even though they say it's "deliberate", I find A mode better anyway with these small Digicams as the lens will stop down beyond the diffraction point quite happily if you don't keep an eye on it. if they're going to introduce a "bug" which fixes aperture in P mode, it ought to be an F4.5 bug where the lens is at or near the sweet spot across the zoom range..

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It would definitely seem that there are differences of experience regarding focus speed. Some, I'm sure, are imaginary but I am in a position to reinforce your belief that there has been an improvement.

This is on account of my owning an A2 (purchased 8 months ago) and also an A1 (18 months).

Being a bit of a victim to hype, as soon as I acquired the A2 I immediately set about comparing the two cameras.

I found the usual slightly higher noise/slightly more resolution and slightly better viewfinder in the A2 and also, as claimed by KM, a slightly faster AF.

Now, having updated both cameras to their respective latest firmware and upon reading these threads, I have compared them again.

The final product is much as it was but insofar as focussing is concerned there is NO discernible difference. Why this should be I have no idea but, to my mind, this demonstrates that you are quite correct in your belief.

QED the A1 now focusses quicker and reduces the gap in performance between the two models.

(So although I own one, don't let A2 owners thumb their noses at you A1 owners!...)

Member said:

QED the A1 now focusses quicker and reduces the gap in performance
between the two models.

Click to expand...

What about accuracy though ? I've used a few A1s and not seen one which has all the AF issues that Jeff Keller (DC Resource) etc went through, the one I tried AF'd like a 10D with a Sigma 18-125 on (very hit and miss) but this was at the beginning - then there is the diagonal banding and 200mm F7 bugs and Purple Fringing (no such issues with the A1 - or the A200 come to that) .

Now Rawshooter essentials is about and working well with the A1 I'm actually enjoying a camera which I discounted on image quality grounds 2 years ago as I always liked the handling and the results from that GT lens edge wise and lack of PF but hated the image quality of (so didn't buy one) - I'm now wondering how the A2 shapes up with RSE well and would be worth considering SO LONG as it can AF as well as an A1 and the banding has been fixed..

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Adam-T said:

What about accuracy though ? I've used a few A1s and not seen one
which has all the AF issues that Jeff Keller (DC Resource) etc went
through

Click to expand...

Went through with the A2** that is - in otherwords, does an A2 with the new firmware AF as accurately as an A1 ?

,
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