I give up...this forum is gettting retarted...

draydur said:

Edwaste said:

draydur said:

best to the old ones
sorry I'm so crotchety to the newbys

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Crotchety? Nah.....imperious....yah.

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Well ... experience tends to do that
I can't imagine how the E-10/20 folks feel.
But you will find my sort of discontent on other forums on this site.
It could be the newbies will soon find themselves alone giving one
another what they have.

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I seriously you have much more experience than myself. Yet I never get tired of passing what advice I might have to the deserving. Perhaps I have more patience. This is a OLY DSLR forum. you got a OLY DSLR, or are considering one...My opinion is you deserve to be here. I'm no snob.

Who gave you the scepter that gives you the authority to demand how this place is run?

I don't have a scepter ... I have tenure.
--
Draydur
(Mike Lowery) - SF bay area, CA, USA
http://www.pbase.com/draydur
-- All things considered, the final image is all that matters.

So I guess there will be a quiz to allow experienced photogs the right to pass into the forum? Or a litmus test? I supose the originator of this thread will be the final judge on who is worthy.

Lawrence Keeney said:

I would not argue against a split, but this would leave the new
Olympus users without the knowledge base of the older Olympus users.

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I'm not convinced that would be the case. There are quite a few E300/E500 users here who know their way around cameras and photography. Saying otherwise implies that only E1 owners have any photographic knowledge. :-(

What a split would do is allow the technical side of discussions to be better managed in separate forums, devoted to the camera types (just like the Canon and Nikon forums). When the E1 replacement comes along, there will be even more discussion going on and the problem will be exacerbated.

This is why a lot of posts are being drowned out, as keen new E300/E500 owners ask about their gear etc. Only those with that particular camera can generally give advice on issues related to those cameras. When it comes to accessories, general photography, technique etc, there's no reason why one can't jump between forums and I see no reason why posters wouldn't be welcome in either camp.

But this place is becoming a bit like a noisy bistro, where it's increasingly difficult to carry on a conversation. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, as it means that Olympus DSLRs are becoming popular, but we need more room, so that we can carry out conversations without being drowned out.

Cheers

Ray

--
http://www.australianimage.com.au

Interesting reply.

you see ... the way those of us who have been here for years feel is that it is the recent newcomers that have changed things. I believe it has to do with the investment we made when we acquired the E-10, 20 or E-1. The E-10/20 folks begrudged us a bit as we dominated the forum a couple of years ago by we were few by comparison to the influx of E-300/500 users.

I am not the first to suggest a split and I will not be the last.

Don't take it personally and remember one of these days you will be told to move on from your home forum too.

--
Draydur
(Mike Lowery) - SF bay area, CA, USA
http://www.pbase.com/draydur
-- All things considered, the final image is all that matters.

good to hear from you.

I think we are getting to the split and the reason is the price point of the E-300/500 vs the original cost of the E-10/20 and E-1. When the E-x comes out it won't increase the forum as much as the consumer dSLR's have. And that is why the canon portion of DPR split into 3 forums for bodies and one for lenses.

Time will tell as you say, just too bad as others say..
best
Mike
--
Draydur
(Mike Lowery) - SF bay area, CA, USA
http://www.pbase.com/draydur
-- All things considered, the final image is all that matters.

Not a quiz, but a test.
and not by me, but by time itself.
--
Draydur
(Mike Lowery) - SF bay area, CA, USA
http://www.pbase.com/draydur
-- All things considered, the final image is all that matters.

So far so good... I'm still quite welcome over in Oly Talk (four years and counting).

While my E-300 is fairly new (March), I've also had an E-10 since April of '02, and began posting in here at that time, so I'm not exactly part of the new influx -- though OTF has been more of my "home".

When the E-1 arrived, I begrudged no new owners then, as I don't begrudge E-500 owners today.

I took nothing personally, but I did take offense at the use of "retarted" (sic) and the implied insult w/respect to newer forum members.

draydur said:

Interesting reply.
you see ... the way those of us who have been here for years feel
is that it is the recent newcomers that have changed things. I
believe it has to do with the investment we made when we acquired
the E-10, 20 or E-1. The E-10/20 folks begrudged us a bit as we
dominated the forum a couple of years ago by we were few by
comparison to the influx of E-300/500 users.

I am not the first to suggest a split and I will not be the last.
Don't take it personally and remember one of these days you will be
told to move on from your home forum too.

--
Draydur
(Mike Lowery) - SF bay area, CA, USA
http://www.pbase.com/draydur
-- All things considered, the final image is all that matters.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately the situation seems to have developed where we seem to have 2 fairly distinct groups with a differing focus. And as 1 group seems to have greater numbers, the other is being left out to some degree.

As an E1 user, I am not seeing a lot of relevance to most of the discussions taking place, and as most seem to be technical issues with the E300/500, my experiences with the E1 are not all that relevant. This is not the fault of the new users, they are just part of the natural progression, but it has in essence led to some form of alianation to E10/20/1 users.

As a result, many of the "older heads" are not being seen around here much of late, they can be seen on other forums however.

Having 2 forums would be great for both groups of users, and I am very sure there would be a lot of interaction between the 2 groups (afterall, many own both cameras). So if we could create the situation where we could get back the "old heads" by introducing a second forum which would have a different focus, suddenly all that experience is back to help us out when the relevant need arises.

Cheers
Wazza

--
If I had all the answers we wouldn't be having this conversation.........

I found this place by chance. It is a brand new forum, and the admin seems to be receptive to suggestions.

Sure it is new and no content, but like any site, there is always a start. At least you can have a dedicated forum for Olympus DSLR and a dedicated section for showing photos and separate discussions.

I am trying to think of something to tell the admin on how to make the format better.

Inigo Montoya wrote:
[snip}

Inigo Montoya said:

While my E-300 is fairly new (March), I've also had an E-10 since
April of '02, and began posting in here at that time, so I'm not
exactly part of the new influx -- though OTF has been more of my
"home".
When the E-1 arrived, I begrudged no new owners then, as I don't
begrudge E-500 owners today.

Click to expand...

well you must have noticed a change in duration of posts since the E-300 was released.

my point is ( and I quote Oz Ray on this) this is getting like a noisy bistro and it's difficult to have a conversation. posts used to last a day on page one... now only an hour.

Inigo Montoya said:

I took nothing personally, but I did take offense at the use of
"retarted" (sic) and the implied insult w/respect to newer forum
members.

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Retarded is harsh isn't it.? .. but I was directing it to the forum as a whole, not any individual or group as classed by camera ownership... more like a general consciousness that I get from all the chatter combined. It's just cacophony these days compared to the slower pace and ordered posts a couple of years ago...

I almost (almost...) regret posting this thread, but it was time for me to do so.

--
Draydur
(Mike Lowery) - SF bay area, CA, USA
http://www.pbase.com/draydur
-- All things considered, the final image is all that matters.

Such a nice civil man you are with such clear thinking.
how I wish I'd consulted you before I started this nightmare of a post.
oh well...
here it is, by my own hand for me to deal with.
Thanks for your thoughts. I sure miss the "old heads"
some have new equipment, some have grown silent.

I suppose I resist change too much or have waited too long waiting for a return to what once was.

Nice of you to chime in on this "dangerous" thread
best to ya'
Mike
--
Draydur
(Mike Lowery) - SF bay area, CA, USA
http://www.pbase.com/draydur
-- All things considered, the final image is all that matters.

draydur said:

Such a nice civil man you are with such clear thinking.

Click to expand...

LOL, there are probably many who would argue that point with you Mike, perhaps my wife first of all......

draydur said:

how I wish I'd consulted you before I started this nightmare of a
post.

Click to expand...

I've seen worse posts, and at least this one is relevant for the time.

draydur said:

oh well...
here it is, by my own hand for me to deal with.

Click to expand...

Many agree with you, and we ALL need to blow of steam at some point.

draydur said:

Thanks for your thoughts. I sure miss the "old heads"
some have new equipment, some have grown silent.

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The problem is those who have grown silent..... When Bill Wallace bought up the last "time to split" thread, many of the newbies said things along the lines of "great... thanks.... just throw us in the deep end and leave us... "

The problem is, many of those who have grown silent through being swamped, are those whe we need around, so essentially we have all been dumped.

draydur said:

I suppose I resist change too much or have waited too long waiting
for a return to what once was.

Click to expand...

It had to be said, as we need a split. As I stated just above, we need to get those "oldies" back, and the only way thats going to happen is for a different forum which will allow a focus more to their liking. Once this happens, then the cross forum support can happen on the relevant issues.

draydur said:

Nice of you to chime in on this "dangerous" thread

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I nearly started a thread the other day that was going to be titled "Use the #$&%ing search before posting another #$%& thread".... I wonder what reaction that would have gotten.

Now a little OT for this post:

I found a sand bar on the river today where Pelecans seem to hang out, I might just have to go for a walk with Bertha later and see just how friendly these ones are.

Keep your head up Mike.

Cheers
Wazza

draydur said:

best to ya'
Mike
--
Draydur
(Mike Lowery) - SF bay area, CA, USA
http://www.pbase.com/draydur
-- All things considered, the final image is all that matters.

Click to expand...

--
If I had all the answers we wouldn't be having this conversation.........

Well, I had my first SLR(SRT 101 which is still clicking) and the attitude on these forum cracks me up, especially the "film is dead" clown. Film might be dead but the optics is the same. Whininig about noisy ISO 1600 cracks me up knowing having had to used Diafine to poush Tri-X that high.

To me, that is just simply elitish thoughts on your part. A forum such as this is a free world and well, I have to say that everyone began as a newbie who know nuts about photography. You got to start somewhere, somehow.

draydur said:

could be, hard to sort through it all.
Seems like a logical entry point would be a fundamental
understanding of photography.

Maybe a forum with a test for membership is the answer.
--
Draydur

Click to expand...

--
. Oly E-300 . KM A200 .

I understand what you mean, draydur. I don't ever look at the the "got my camera yesterday, here is my first picture". My advice for the newbies: read about photography, there are books and magazines about every item. Then, when you have practised for a year or two and still have a vital question, then go to the forum and ask.
--
Raymond
http://home.online.no/~rwardena
http://www.volleyball.no/t3.asp?p=57227 (E-1)

dashure said:

To me, that is just simply elitish thoughts on your part. A forum
such as this is a free world and well, I have to say that everyone
began as a newbie who know nuts about photography. You got to start
somewhere, somehow.

Click to expand...

Mike's post had nothing to do with elitism. If anything, it was to do with bringing some balance back to the forum and giving everyone an even chance to ask questions and give answers.

Is it elitism that the Canon and Nikon forums have been sub-divided? No. It's just a matter of practicality. This forum is now on the edge and needs some breathing space.

Like I said in another post, this forum is very much like an increasingly popular, but noisy bistro, some of us need to have breathing space and we need a quieter place to talk. There's nothing wrong with that.

From some of the arguments being presented, it's almost a case of reverse-elitism that I'm hearing. If you want us old buggers to hang around (as some seem to profess), then consider and respect our views as well.

I'll bend over backwards to help where I can, but I'm a country lad, used to a country town, as are many others and this is becoming a big city, so give us country bumpkins some slack.

Cheers

Ray

--
http://www.australianimage.com.au

looks like it was stormy last night; although you did bring a little of it on yourself with the subject line. I too have been giving a lot of thought to forum splits or splitting the forum and taking up residence elsewhere.

Firstly, have you sent feedback to Phil, I would encourage all who want a split to do so maybe he will listen.

Secondly, we could try fighting fire with fire. Instead of complaining about the traffic levels lets try to increase them; there must be some level at which Phil will split the forum so try starting and responding to as many E-1 threads as possible.

Thirdly, if you do go elsewhere let me know where as I may well join you ;^) A while ago when some of the Exx nature shooters started getting new cameras and were no longer welcome in Olympus land a new forum was born. This new forum is non-camera specific and nature oriented but has low participation; I'm sure you'd be welcome there.

Regards
Doug

--
See my best images @
And many many more @ http://rookhope.ncl.ac.uk

Agreed!

As one of the Admins of the site you mentioned above, Mike would most certainly be welcome!
--
Regards,
(afka Wile E. Coyote)
Bill
PSAA
Equipment in profile.

If you can visualize it, then create it in the camera, finish it off with the print that matches your mind's eye then you are, most likely, a master...

now thats an interesting suggestion.

I know the dpreview administrators ALWAYS say use the feedback, but they never respond, so I have no idea if that is an effective method or not..?? Perhaps sending their thread counter 'troppo' might work?

--
If I had all the answers we wouldn't be having this conversation.........