We all know who WAS full of beans! 1D

The effect that it is aimed for -- that the majority of Canon EOS
users will not be tempted to go over to the Nikon camp (which some
already did) while further tweakings are been done to the 1D prior
to its official announcement, has been achieved but Canon can still
make it worse by pricing the 1D out of most users' budgets.

Kai Pin
I'm sorry but I don't see the NEED to keep one from making a business decision for him by providing him with false information. You were out of line....plain and simple. If some one wants to jump ship, I'll give them a little gruff at the most. But, they shouldn't be HELD back by some one like you who tells a bunch of false things.....and major exaggerations.

Some people lost a lot of money and or clients who bring in their money to others who were working with the better equipment....like me!....rather than futz'n around with the "professional" D30.....or holding out with their film cameras....like me!....anticipating a super duper camera because they presumed that by staying with Canon or with film for now would be more profitable in the end....for they would have the top dog camera.....which would be so top dog that it would make the competition drop dead and make their clients want to hire me because I possessed the best of the best.

The 1D may be great but not monetarily worth the wait.

JPG/MM
 
I'd suggest reading the rest of the posts.

JPG/MM
Problem is, when you knock the people who bring forth this info you
are saying you would rather not know anything at all (true or not)
and if thats the case then don't read the forum.

A majority of the info has been true and for those of us who rely
on this equipment day to day like to know when to move old gear as
well as make plans to obtain the new gear as soon as we can through
our sources.

Bottom line,
if you don't care to read or look forward to new gear then don't
read those posts.
Doesn't freedom of speach apply to speculation rumor or not?
As for all the hype and rumors and total crud WE all heard about
the new pro SLR....and posted....with the exemption of my humorous
post.......we now know who was full of baked beans!

Now we see the specs of this new 1D, It looks a whole lot different
from all the specs and gossip that was posted on this site.

Now, I post the question....after it has come to be......WHERE DID
EVERYONE GET ALL THEIR WRONG INFORMATION FROM?????????

Please tell me!!!!! I just have to know!! :)

Are these so called Canon reps so full of crap that they would lie
to you about their company's new product??

Are the camera reseller's who supplied you with this bunk pulling
your leg all along??

Were these "photojournalists" who were working with the new top
secret camera....which WAS what Canon WAS coming out with .....made
up stories???

And all these reports of several types of cameras....with specs
like 6MP full 35mm.....10IPS, bla bla this and that....Ahhhh????

Oh and let's not forget all the stories about the actual release
date.....which came and went again....and again.....and
again..........

Gosh! Tell me tell me tell me!! Pleeeeeease!

JPG/MM

--
Good Day! John Greco
 
You are right - the actual designation doesn't matter. What is more
important to anyone is whether there really is an EOS-1D coming out
all this while (prior to the official announcement). :-)
I am not sure that I believe Kai Pin in his motivations for releasing true or false information before it was press ready. FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) has been used as a tactic to lure potential customers from competing products. I am no fan of FUD. I am a big fan of speculation (I made some guesses and threw out some feature requests).

I am also a big fan of honesty in marketing. It seems that if Kai Pin is working for Canon and spreading false rumors to see how far they get (and openly admitting it afterward), than that is more damaging to Canon's reputation than the benefit of luring potential customers with FUD.

All that being said, I doubt that Kai Pin works for Canon or is trusted in any regard by Canon. They probably flashed a few pictures in front of him to test his loyalty and see if he'd talk about them. People generally shouldn't admit that they're lying to you and expect you to trust them. I think we've all lost our faith in anything Kai Pin says.

Yeah, maybe Canon will come out with a 6.6MP 10fps CMOS awesome Pro Digital SLR. I'd like for Phil to announce it as official news rather than some forum poster to spill the beans and claim it's official. Phil is a respectable news source, and he keeps his word, and that is why I trust him and his reviews. The more I've looked into the cameras, and the users feedback on this site, the more I appreciate why Phil goes into such depth reviewing a digital camera.

If Canon does indeed read these forums, let them speak for themselves with an official corporate representative, not some leaky mouth that get shown fabricated materials to see how far it spreads. I am no big fan of FUD. If Canon wants to let us know that in 6 months there will be some competition, it can do it in an official press release.
-Mike
 
Dont deefend people who spread lies with fredom of spech it's one thing to start rumors if you don't now is a lie....
O.Olsson
Problem is, when you knock the people who bring forth this info you
are saying you would rather not know anything at all (true or not)
and if thats the case then don't read the forum.

A majority of the info has been true and for those of us who rely
on this equipment day to day like to know when to move old gear as
well as make plans to obtain the new gear as soon as we can through
our sources.

Bottom line,
if you don't care to read or look forward to new gear then don't
read those posts.
Doesn't freedom of speach apply to speculation rumor or not?
As for all the hype and rumors and total crud WE all heard about
the new pro SLR....and posted....with the exemption of my humorous
post.......we now know who was full of baked beans!

Now we see the specs of this new 1D, It looks a whole lot different
from all the specs and gossip that was posted on this site.

Now, I post the question....after it has come to be......WHERE DID
EVERYONE GET ALL THEIR WRONG INFORMATION FROM?????????

Please tell me!!!!! I just have to know!! :)

Are these so called Canon reps so full of crap that they would lie
to you about their company's new product??

Are the camera reseller's who supplied you with this bunk pulling
your leg all along??

Were these "photojournalists" who were working with the new top
secret camera....which WAS what Canon WAS coming out with .....made
up stories???

And all these reports of several types of cameras....with specs
like 6MP full 35mm.....10IPS, bla bla this and that....Ahhhh????

Oh and let's not forget all the stories about the actual release
date.....which came and went again....and again.....and
again..........

Gosh! Tell me tell me tell me!! Pleeeeeease!

JPG/MM

--
Good Day! John Greco
 
So in other words you lied. Whatever the reasons, why should anyone believe anything you say ever again?
Right now I can also admit to having distorted some of them on
purpose, in order to see just how far these rumours travel to other
sites on the Net and then claiming them as coming from their very
own Canon sources ... some of them appeared in sites which I have
never visited before until I got there via a link or
recommendations ...
 
Canon’s silence, little bits of info (often misleading) from their sales force given to large retailers, has been the single most disappointing, maddening, frustrating issue surrounding Canon digital products since well before the D30 arrived,,

Announcing products that don’t exist, or pre-announcing years before availability, is certainly a despicable marketing practice designed to do one thing,, freeze the market to retain customers,, On the other hand allowing rumors to abound unchecked, and now seemingly participating in the spreading of those rumors, servers basically the same end,, freezing the market to retain customers. A despicable practice..

Canon knew about all of the D30 production delays long before it’s release and right up to release continued the smoke screen that there would be ample supply of D30s on day one,, and we all know what a sham that was. And now Canon have seen for nearly a year what the large majority of D30 users wanted in way of features in the “pro” version SLR. This pitiful announcement called the 1D could hardly be considered overwhelmingly good news to most of us, be it only 4.1 MP, CCD, or the outrageous price. Canon didn’t step in and quash rumors simply because they had no good news to offer. What better way to freeze the market than to simply allow favorable, be they true or untrue, rumors to go unchecked.

As I said long ago,, good news leaks, bad news just reeks..

Phred
 
JCDoss wrote:
...What Kai used on everyone here is his imagination.

Feel free to assume anything you want. :-)
There's no assuming anything... you openly admitted to fabricating details about the camera, remember?
b) Others post more BS than me. Mine was confined only to certain
specs that I changed in order to check what goes where from here
plus some that were created to divert attention away from some
genuine facts that were leaked by someone else ... like "EF 15-35mm
f/2.8L USM and EF 50-200mm f/2.8L USM lenses" rather than the
actual EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM and IS version of the 70-200L.
Case in point... even more fabrications.
Fortunately, I can take all the criticisms, which
is quite exciting anyway to have people disagreeing with the points
raised. Can you do the same? :-)
First, I don't enjoy messing with people by fabricating details about things important to their livelihoods, which apparently you do. And second, it's not about me...

Thanks, though, for revealing yourself and your true colors.

JCDoss
 
KP keep that crap out of this board!
I for one totally agree with Andrews post! Keep the BS out of this otherwise most excellent forum!

I paid very little attention to the traffic on this forum over the past few weeks just because of speculative garbage that has been flying around and like to see it stopped though I'm realistic enough to know it won't stop.

Anyway, give'm hell Phil! I'm with you!
 
I suggest that people seach for Kai Pin's older postings and read them. I did that thinking that he was in the know. But I was surprised to find that he had been making statements that turned out to be completely false.

Here are some examples:

Post Jan, 2001:

It will have a 6 fps firing rate in AI Servo AF and will cost less than 4.5K. Canon is able to prive it cheaper than other pro models because it makes its own CMOS chip. The D1 is a Nikon-body utilizing Sony's digital imaging technology in an OEM agreement so Nikon has to price it above a certain figure to make a profit.

This is all everyone needs to know about the upcoming pro digital model from Canon for the time being. Let the camera itself be unveiled by Canon in prototype form at the PMA 2001 Show to be held at Orlando, Florida from February 11-14 as to how its shape will look like and other features that may be disclosed further. :-)

Post May 4, 2001:

There are really no plans by Canon for an IS version of the EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM -- it all started off as an assumption from an EOS user in the EOS mailing list back in Jan 2000, based purely on the fact that IS versions of four USM super telephoto L-series lenses were announced during Spring '99, and from there the rumor just grew and grew until it spread to other forums on the Net, including those in the dpreview site.

However, with the pro digital EOS SLR set to be announced formally by Canon sometime this fall, it may be a good idea to wait around for some new L-series lenses, like maybe an EF 50-200mm f/2.8L USM, for example.
As for all the hype and rumors and total crud WE all heard about
the new pro SLR....and posted....with the exemption of my humorous
post.......we now know who was full of baked beans!
Now we see the specs of this new 1D, It looks a whole lot different
from all the specs and gossip that was posted on this site.
Now, I post the question....after it has come to be......WHERE DID
EVERYONE GET ALL THEIR WRONG INFORMATION FROM?????????
Please tell me!!!!! I just have to know!! :)
No doubt that were a lot of rumours over the past few months and
some of them were obviously plain jokes ...
Are these so called Canon reps so full of crap that they would lie
to you about their company's new product??
Are the camera reseller's who supplied you with this bunk pulling
your leg all along??
People said they were told of this and that from their local Canon
reps -- doesn't really mean that those reps told them so. It could
be stories made up by these people ...
Were these "photojournalists" who were working with the new top
secret camera....which WAS what Canon WAS coming out with .....made
up stories???
No, they didn't. In most cases, the photographers that tested the
camera were Japanese professionals, those that Tokyo can trust to
keep everything under tight lid until the official announcement. Of
course, some of them can give a few hints here and there in
between, coupled with their typical Japanese accent English, no
many will believe it anyway ...
And all these reports of several types of cameras....with specs
like 6MP full 35mm.....10IPS, bla bla this and that....Ahhhh????
A version with 6.6mp CMOS/8 fps was one of the prototypes --
however, there was practically nothing about this 4.15mp, 8 fps
w/CCD version that has been officially announced.

I am wondering at which point Canon decided to delay the CMOS version?
"Current technology doesn't allow them to use CMOS at 8fps" is just
another excuse as far as I am concerned -- when Canon launched the
EOS-1N back in Photokina '94, one of the questions asked was "Why
Canon did not make a new booster for the EOS-1N that has a vertical
Main Dial similar to the one available on the optional Handgrip of
the EOS 5 (A2/A2E)?"

The reply was: "It will make the booster bulky and not practical so
we decided not to feature it and just improved the circuitry on the
PDB-E1 to accept AA-size lithium batteries"

Fast-forward to Sept '98: The EOS-3 was launched with PB-E2 that
has a vertical Main Dial and only slightly bigger base than the
PDB-E1.

For those who have decide that the current 1D is the camera for
them, that's good. As for those who prefer to wait for the CMOS
version, this is better still but there is also the risk of waiting
longer than usual -- right now Canon has the discretion of
announcing it at the next PMA Show 2002 (very unlikely) or
Photokina 2002 or it will just delay it further and consider it as
the replacement for the current 1D by PMA/Photokina 2004.
Oh and let's not forget all the stories about the actual release
date.....which came and went again....and again.....and
again ..........
As far as I am concerned, I have always maintained that the
official release date will be around Sept/Oct 2001 and the first
public showing is likely to be at NYC's Photo Plus East EXPO to be
held at Jacob Javits Center (is still ON despite the recent
attacks).

ANOTHER THING: Both Canon USA and Canon Inc. Japan are monitoring
the Pro Digital and Canon SLR Talk forums -- so anyone who want to
have their constructive views (especially the price of the EOS-1D
and other ridiculous business practices) to be heard by them, feel
free to say more ... but leave the silly and sarcastic ones out. :-)

Kai Pin
 
Point is that most people here are interested in new DSLRs, not
film scanners, low-end P/S cameras, and macro ringlights. Kai Pin
openly admitted to "fabricating" details about this new camera once
he gained the trust of many on these forums. So, even if he's
spot-on with regards to the other stuff, his reputation and
credibility around here about things we care about are out the
window.
Jason,

I told you so. I knew he was full of it long before the announcement.

(Have to take this moment for an old man to gloat).
 
all know what a sham that was. And now Canon have seen for nearly
a year what the large majority of D30 users wanted in way of
features in the “pro” version SLR. This pitiful
announcement called the 1D could hardly be considered
overwhelmingly good news to most of us, be it only 4.1 MP, CCD, or
the outrageous price. Canon didn’t step in and quash rumors
simply because they had no good news to offer. What better way to
freeze the market than to simply allow favorable, be they true or
untrue, rumors to go unchecked.
Yipes. This is the clearest analysis of the disappointment and bitching (some call it whining) that has occurred since the official announcement of the 1D that I've seen.

You nailed it on the head, Phred, and I wish I had had the insightfulness to see this a few days ago. Michael Richman (sp?) of Luminous-Landscape expressing his disappointment of the 1D couldn't quite pull it together. Those of us who felt displeasure but couldn't put on finger on it knew we were handed an excrement sandwich but even though it didn't taste good we didn't know why.

Unless Canon reps do not read any of these messages (quite possible) this is one arrogant company (anyone seeing the price of the 400 DO obviously knew that). They knew those of us wanting a higher end D30 would remain loyal in the absence of any kind of upgrade word, given the excellent quality of the camera. But what kind of reward does that loyalty bring? Maybe we'll hear something next year, maybe not.

Too bad MarkL left the forum. I'd like to debate him one on one now.
 
Kai, all I can say is that I'm dissapointed. Yes, in the announcement, but mostly in you for getting our hopes up.

I do fully realize that this could all change with (possibly near) future announcements from Canon. But I, among just about everyone else around here, do not appreciate being used as guinea pigs by you and Canon for your little experiment.

I'm sure by now you've both realized the powerful vehicle that is Phil Askey's website. Please be thankful and treat it with respect from now on...something we all once did towards you.

We are real people, with real emotions and real needs.

Thank you for reading and please try to have compassion for why it is that so many are upset. If you were to step outside the situation for a moment, I'm sure you would agree that there was a better way to handle all of this.

Take good care,
David
 
I think we all should just sue Canon for getting our hopes up, and
then they have the odosidy to create such a horrible piece of
euipment they call a 1D.Hey, people smoke for forty years, die of
cancer, then there families sue tobacco companies, right?
Yes, I know I said goodbye, but these post are so full of humour, I
need my daily laugh.Suing is as stupid as some posts here.
A persons life is a lot more valuable than a digital camera.
Stand in an intensive care room and watch someone slip away with
lung cancer, then stand in your local camera store - I can assure
you the experience is VERY different.
Both of my parents died and yes, I have seen people pass away.If you smoke for forty years are we to blame tobacco companies.Why not sue beer companies when someone is killed by a drunk driver????????????????

Is like putting a gun to your head and rapidly pulling the trigger, you may die or you may not.thats like smoking.I was merely mocking all you who are complaing about a camera that hasn't gone into production yet.
 
Howdy Mike, I agree the camera, and lenses are way over priced.How do they expect to keep pro's if they can switch to Nikon and buy two cameras for one 1D? What I was saying was simply this: The camera has not even gone to anyone of these people posting, we are basing our conclusion on what we here and read, isn't it wiser and knowledgebale to have experienced with something before jumping to conclusion.We cannot believe everything simply through books.It is on the same basis as this:"We see somenthing off in the distance and it looks like an animal as we get closer and looks like a person, upon arriving closer it's a tree."

This is exactly what is happening here.Am I happy over the price, NO! I am angry at Canon.
all know what a sham that was. And now Canon have seen for nearly
a year what the large majority of D30 users wanted in way of
features in the “pro” version SLR. This pitiful
announcement called the 1D could hardly be considered
overwhelmingly good news to most of us, be it only 4.1 MP, CCD, or
the outrageous price. Canon didn’t step in and quash rumors
simply because they had no good news to offer. What better way to
freeze the market than to simply allow favorable, be they true or
untrue, rumors to go unchecked.
Yipes. This is the clearest analysis of the disappointment and
bitching (some call it whining) that has occurred since the
official announcement of the 1D that I've seen.

You nailed it on the head, Phred, and I wish I had had the
insightfulness to see this a few days ago. Michael Richman (sp?)
of Luminous-Landscape expressing his disappointment of the 1D
couldn't quite pull it together. Those of us who felt displeasure
but couldn't put on finger on it knew we were handed an excrement
sandwich but even though it didn't taste good we didn't know why.

Unless Canon reps do not read any of these messages (quite
possible) this is one arrogant company (anyone seeing the price of
the 400 DO obviously knew that). They knew those of us wanting a
higher end D30 would remain loyal in the absence of any kind of
upgrade word, given the excellent quality of the camera. But what
kind of reward does that loyalty bring? Maybe we'll hear
something next year, maybe not.

Too bad MarkL left the forum. I'd like to debate him one on one now.
 
...(some was) created to divert attention away from some
genuine facts that were leaked by someone else ... like "EF 15-35mm
f/2.8L USM and EF 50-200mm f/2.8L USM lenses" rather than the
actual EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM and IS version of the 70-200L.
Why did you try to divert attention from the genuine facts - was your
activity commissioned or encouraged by Canon?

rotohr
 
Stop your lame postings! Nobody gives a hoot about your lame "i dun care wat others say" tiresome tirade. It's amazing to me you can still feel so good about yourself and unreptentant after all the criticisms of your actions.

You have spread lies and we all know wat happens to liars. Nobody believes them anymore. That includes you. You know wat? I dun believe you dun care wat others think about u.

IF you're really a Canon insider. you should have known better than to tarnish your reputation. Who asks you to distract us from accurate / correct rumours? Canon? I don't think so.

It's your own pride and self assumed importance at having inside info that motivate you to take it upon yourself to spread lies and stories. It must have felt good that pple look up to you eh?

learn something today - it NEVER pays to tell a lie.

Red Dawn
 
Howdy Mike, I agree the camera, and lenses are way over priced.How
do they expect to keep pro's if they can switch to Nikon and buy
two cameras for one 1D? What I was saying was simply this: The
camera has not even gone to anyone of these people posting, we are
basing our conclusion on what we here and read
This is exactly what is happening here.Am I happy over the price,
NO! I am angry at Canon.
I'm in 100% agreement that some of the complaining is "jumping the gun." I'll even fess up to one big one that I keep making -- that about the dust problem. I'm going to keep quiet about this from now on because, as you correctly note, I really don't know what I'm talking about just based on the specs. Neil says he has no problem with dust in his (Canon based) Kodak cameras, and I respect his opinon..

However, I think it's perfectly legitimate AND NECESSARY to complain about things in the specs that are clearly wrongheaded. Here's my reasoning: if there is even the slightest chance Canon monitors these forums, such complaining in advance can only do good. If there is even a remote possibility some Canon rep reads all the bitching about the pricing perhaps they will reconsider. If there is one chance in 1000 that the people working on the next Canon model understand power consumption of a CCD compared to CMOS is a legitimate and valid concern it may cause them to move in that direciton.

IOW, I want people to keep complaining about things just in the off possibility it may actually do some good. Maybe I'm just a dreamer, maybe it doesn't matter a hill of beans what forum people say here and we're all just venting (although that has some theraputic value, I doubt Phil runs this place for our mental health). If so, I'll be the first one to remain quiet or to just bare my backside and say to Canon, "Thank you sir, may I have another?"
 
Since you don't believe anything he's saying, why are you still reading his posts? Why not just skip over his posts. That should lower your blood pressure a bit.
How sad for you, your credibility has just gone shooting through
the floor.
Now that we know you either (a) don't know as much as you purport
to know and (b) voluntarily fabricate rumors just for kicks or (c)
both, I for one don't see reason to believe anything else you say.
Not many take my last hint (early Sept) seriously neither did they
believe it much when I said the new camera will be known as the
EOS-1D(igital), and not D1v, 1Dv or 1vD earlier this year.
Even a blind squirrel sometimes gets an acorn. Who really cares
what Canon decided to name the camera anyways?

JCDoss
 
However, I think it's perfectly legitimate AND NECESSARY to
complain about things in the specs that are clearly wrongheaded.
Here's my reasoning: if there is even the slightest chance Canon
monitors these forums, such complaining in advance can only do
good. If there is even a remote possibility some Canon rep reads
all the bitching about the pricing perhaps they will reconsider.
I also believe that speaking up about issues is our only hope, mind you it could be a very slim hope..

OTOH, voting with our money is what will count in the long run. So, here’s my plan.

1. I’m not investing in any additional Canon glass or accessories – was seriously considering the new 70-200 IS but will wait. Have toyed with the idea of picking up a second D30 if the price was right, but that’s also now on hold. And I’m not interested in the 1D..

2. No first-in-line for me on any Canon (or Nikon) new product. I will have to be able to use/test the product for a couple of weeks, in my environment, before even considering a purchase.

I’m going to keep my options open. With their switch back to CCD technology, Canon would now be lagging behind Nikon in experience on the ground, where it counts. Nikon would appear to be one full development cycle ahead of Canon at this point. I know it’s early days, however, the early 1D samples are just awful. We D30 CMOS users have never been impressed with CCD images. If you think back to this same point in time with the early sample D30 images, image quality didn’t improve by orders of magnitude by production release of the camera. That doesn’t bode well for the 1D. And we are starting to see tell-tale signs that Canon wants to play silly games, like offering 45 point AF only in their “pro” 1D (at exorbitant prices) or at least delaying their D30H/X model to force 1D sales.

So, I’m positioning, and preparing, myself to switch camera vendors. If a new Nikon product gives me what I’m looking for, I will switch; Canon doesn’t own me simply because of my current investment in Canon products. That investment is now largely written down in value.

And while I’m on the subject, if Canon is interested, and I don’t particularly care if they are or aren’t,, give me a D30V with:

.45 point AF (full function, identical to EOS-3/1V performance)

.If a full frame sensor can’t be accomplished (too costly or just not currently feasible for any reason) a multiplier somewhere between 1.6 and 1.0 (1.3 will do) with correspondingly more pixels (keep pixel size the same as the D30)
.3fps is just fine but increase the buffer size

.Don’t need to take the D30 into the bath with me so the “non-pro” body is just fine
.Fix the software, speed up RAW capture

.Keep USB or switch to Firewire, don’t care – I use a Firewire card reader.

.AND keep the price at about what the original D30 cost – $3,000 – given the D30V would be a follow on product, based largely on the previous D30 R&D efforts, we would expect that to be achievable

For that matter, anyone from Nikon reading this??

Phred
 

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