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You gotta love Phil askey...

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Some Canon users seem to be dissapointed with Phil, some even say he likes Nikon more than Canon and his review is biased (like that "fanatic" Eugene Powers, or something so), you know, different sensor sizes, different lenses, different distances... Everything is wrong with the Canon and the review simply isn't fair... I wonder how many D2Xs more could have been sold if this comparison had been done just when both cameras where out...

Just to quote Phil:

"I toyed with a 'Recommended' for quite a while because of the D2X"

If techonology let us make better things smaller, long life to DX DSLRs! Just please magnify the viewfinder or ship a DK-17M for free... :)

Disclaimer: this is only MHO!
Norwen said:
You know what I like about this man? Cuts straight into the beef.
No useless wordies.

I love the part where he talks about the lens he used for his test...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=15391769
Click to expand...
--
Antonio Rojilla
http://fotografia.disparos.com
 
Phil has typically leaned a little more toward Canon. I certainly would not accuse him of being pro Nikon because of the review. I believe (as someone else pointed out), he simply gave a great review in "both" cases and let the chips fall where they may.

You have to admit that until the D2X, there wasn't much in the way of a "dominate Nikon" competing against Canon. Although I believe the D1X also held it's own for sometime.
--
Mel
 
This quote:

"I toyed with a 'Recommended' for quite a while because of the D2X."

doesn't take into account the fact that the D2X and 5D weren't out whe the 1Ds Mark II came out.

Imagine rating the D100 based on the original $2000 price tag.

Maybe it's just jealously but in some ways this makes me happy I can't afford one of these two cameras.

I wonder what 1Ds Mark II buyers think now that the 5D is out?

But what Happens when Nikon comes out with a D2X Mark II that has the high ISO performance of the D50 and D2Hs and Nikon doesn't give you an upgrade?
 
srogouski said:
I wonder what 1Ds Mark II buyers think now that the 5D is out?
Click to expand...
For the average buyer with the resources and motivation to buy a 1Ds MKII, time is probably just as important or more so than money-- time spent shooting and producing with the 1Ds MKII. Besides, now the 5D offers an inexpensive FF back-up body for 1Ds MKII users.
srogouski said:
But what Happens when Nikon comes out with a D2X Mark II that has
the high ISO performance of the D50 and D2Hs and Nikon doesn't give
you an upgrade?
Click to expand...
Again, time is a factor. As the saying goes, time is money. I don't think many people expect Nikon to replace the D2X any time soon-- not with Nikon's leisurely production cycles.
 
T3 said:
For the average buyer with the resources and motivation to buy a
1Ds MKII, time is probably just as important or more so than
money-- time spent shooting and producing with the 1Ds MKII.
Besides, now the 5D offers an inexpensive FF back-up body for 1Ds
MKII users.
Click to expand...
This is actually more of an argument for paying for the D2X or 1Ds Mark II over the 5D. In the former cases, you have sensors that give you medium format or near medium format quality in a pro body.

In the 5D's case, you're paying 3300 dollars for a 20D/D70 class body.

10 years ago, the F5 was 2000 bucks. A Hasselblad system a bit more.

I find it difficult to believe that pro photographers are making more now than they were 10 or 20 years go, especially since any schmuck can buy a D70 or 20D and take decent looking photos. They're probably making much less. Remember, 10 years ago, you could make decent money if you could write Perl Scripts. Not now.

There are probably as many pro photographers still using D100s or 1D Mark Is. These new superbodies seem more like technie fetish objects to me.

I paid $2000 for my first computer. It had a 40 Meg hard drive.

I just bought a 2 GIG Hitachi Microdrive for 100 dollars.
 
srogouski said:
In the 5D's case, you're paying 3300 dollars for a 20D/D70 class body.
Click to expand...
How so? The 5D has an even more robust magnesium alloy body than the 20D's, a much larger viewfinder, a 17 frame RAW buffer and 60 frame JPEG buffer, a 2.5" LCD, an RGB histogram, a magnesium alloy portrait grip, better low light autofocus and focus tracking, etc, etc. By all accounts, it's been noted that the 5D's body and mechanical performance is better than the 20D's in just about every respect. Even if Canon offered NONE of these improvements over the 20D, they could STILL justify the $3300 price for this 13mp FF camera because it's the LEAST expensive 12+MP and/or FF option on the market. The 5D is definitely a class above the 20D, and certainly above the D70. If you think the 5D is equivalent to a D70-class body, you obviously are selling the 5D far short. Handle both and you'll see that the D70 and 5D are definitely not the same "class body".
 
Comparing the D70 body to a 5D body is more like comparing a Nikon N80 body to an F100 body.
T3 said:
srogouski said:
In the 5D's case, you're paying 3300 dollars for a 20D/D70 class body.
Click to expand...
How so? The 5D has an even more robust magnesium alloy body than
the 20D's, a much larger viewfinder, a 17 frame RAW buffer and 60
frame JPEG buffer, a 2.5" LCD, an RGB histogram, a magnesium alloy
portrait grip, better low light autofocus and focus tracking, etc,
etc. By all accounts, it's been noted that the 5D's body and
mechanical performance is better than the 20D's in just about every
respect. Even if Canon offered NONE of these improvements over the
20D, they could STILL justify the $3300 price for this 13mp FF
camera because it's the LEAST expensive 12+MP and/or FF option on
the market. The 5D is definitely a class above the 20D, and
certainly above the D70. If you think the 5D is equivalent to a
D70-class body, you obviously are selling the 5D far short. Handle
both and you'll see that the D70 and 5D are definitely not the same
"class body".
Click to expand...
 
When I read this, I don't get the sense that you own a 5D. It feels like a cut and paste to me.

Ken Rockwell is a D70 fanboy. Mike Johnson a Minolta fanboy. But when I read either, I know they're intimately acquainted with those cameras.

Nothing personal but Ken Rockwell's obsession with the D70's flash sync has a certain authenticity. It's a quirky reason why he likes it so much.

But when you post "The 5D has an even more robust yada yada" over and over again, it feels like a press release.

But maybe I'm wrong. Have you shot 1000 frames plus with a 5D? Because if you haven't, how can you recommend it.
T3 said:
How so? The 5D has an even more robust magnesium alloy body than
the 20D's, a much larger viewfinder, a 17 frame RAW buffer and 60
frame JPEG buffer, a 2.5" LCD, an RGB histogram, a magnesium alloy
portrait grip, better low light autofocus and focus tracking, etc,
etc. By all accounts, it's been noted that the 5D's body and
mechanical performance is better than the 20D's in just about every
respect. Even if Canon offered NONE of these improvements over the
20D, they could STILL justify the $3300 price for this 13mp FF
camera because it's the LEAST expensive 12+MP and/or FF option on
the market. The 5D is definitely a class above the 20D, and
certainly above the D70. If you think the 5D is equivalent to a
D70-class body, you obviously are selling the 5D far short. Handle
both and you'll see that the D70 and 5D are definitely not the same
"class body".
Click to expand...
 
T3 said:
Comparing the D70 body to a 5D body is more like comparing a Nikon
N80 body to an F100 body.
Click to expand...
How many frames have you shot with the 5D?

I have 28,000 frames on my D2H and I feel as if I'm still learning how to use it.
 
No offence to Phil, but I don't know any pro who's looking at a 1DS2 or a medium format digital back holding off their purchase until Phil reviews the product. The D2X is a great camera but IT IS NOT FF and that takes it out of consideration for most commercial, advertising, fashion, and many editorial photographers. As nice as the body is, I can't imagine paying $5K for a camera that changes the way i shoot. I want my 35, 50, and 85 to look the way they were intended to look. This concept seems to be hard to grasp for many who don't make a living with their camera or have not shot enough images but have plenty to say about nothing. It's not just about resolution, fast AF, ergonomics, etc....but attaining the "look" you can achieve only with a FF sensor.

Josef

http://www.josefisayo.com
 
FF VS. DX format is irrelevant as soon as you shoot with proper lenses. Same fov.

The man himself said it. Phil Askey. So please, gang of Trolls, go home.
 
srogouski said:
When I read this, I don't get the sense that you own a 5D.
Click to expand...
No, I don't own one yet. But I've handled it. My budgetary plan isn't to get one until December.
srogouski said:
But when you post "The 5D has an even more robust yada yada" over
and over again, it feels like a press release.
Click to expand...
Oftentimes, things bear repeating because the same topic comes up over and over again. And maybe because some people aren't sharp enough to get it the first time. Besides, it's true: the 5D isn't just some light plastic D70 with a $3300 price tag and a 13mp FF sensor stuffed into it. I can't help it if you don't like hearing it. Furthermore, I find the best way to combat ignorance or disinformation is to provide relevant information (often in the form of objective specs) to educate those that may not know any better. If that sounds like a "press release" then so be it. I'd rather try to be informative than to simply say superficial things like "you're paying 3300 dollars for a 20D/D70 class body."
 
Yeah, the D70 is a hell of a lot easier to handle because it is lighter.

The 5D isn't so absolutely solid. The CF door is creaky when you handle the camera. And that door is right where the heel of your hand is every time you pick it up. I want the portion of the camera my hand grapples to be solid. The D70 feels more solid in that regard.

I don't see bigger and heavier as a "feature." If a camera has to weigh that much, give me a D2X - something actually designed to be held.
T3 said:
srogouski said:
In the 5D's case, you're paying 3300 dollars for a 20D/D70 class body.
Click to expand...
How so? The 5D has an even more robust magnesium alloy body than
the 20D's, a much larger viewfinder, a 17 frame RAW buffer and 60
frame JPEG buffer, a 2.5" LCD, an RGB histogram, a magnesium alloy
portrait grip, better low light autofocus and focus tracking, etc,
etc. By all accounts, it's been noted that the 5D's body and
mechanical performance is better than the 20D's in just about every
respect. Even if Canon offered NONE of these improvements over the
20D, they could STILL justify the $3300 price for this 13mp FF
camera because it's the LEAST expensive 12+MP and/or FF option on
the market. The 5D is definitely a class above the 20D, and
certainly above the D70. If you think the 5D is equivalent to a
D70-class body, you obviously are selling the 5D far short. Handle
both and you'll see that the D70 and 5D are definitely not the same
"class body".
Click to expand...
 
srogouski said:
T3 said:
Comparing the D70 body to a 5D body is more like comparing a Nikon
N80 body to an F100 body.
Click to expand...
How many frames have you shot with the 5D?

I have 28,000 frames on my D2H and I feel as if I'm still learning
how to use it.
Click to expand...
Nice try changing the subject. What does that have to do with anything? Once I shoot a bunch of frames on a 5D, is that going to make any of the specifications and details I listed more real to you? LOL.
 
Ed said:
I don't see bigger and heavier as a "feature." If a camera has to
weigh that much, give me a D2X - something actually designed to be
held.
Click to expand...
Well if I decide to pay 4400 dollars for a D2X, I know I'm getting the exact same body as my D2H. I can work around the higher noise.

If I pay 3300 dollars for a 5D, I'm getting an unknown quality and having scene the fiasco with the horrible 10D autofocus, do you really want to pay this much money on an unknown Canon prosumer body?

But the one reason I wouldn't buy a D2X right now is the fact that it seems like a prototype. My gut feeling teels me they're going to introduce an updated version with better noise control.
 
T3 said:
Nice try changing the subject. What does that have to do with
anything? Once I shoot a bunch of frames on a 5D, is that going to
make any of the specifications and details I listed more real to
you? LOL.
Click to expand...
As I said, read Ken Rockwell on the D70 or Mike Johnson on the Minolta. Neither camera is the best DSLR in the world but they're both biased toward them for their own quirky reasons.

I could look at the specs of a D70 or 20D and say "hey it's better than the D2H". Means nothing until you've picked up a D2H and used it.
 
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