Light meters

This is a question for you pros, I'm hoping you can help me out. I'm very much an amateur, but am trying to improve. I want to get away from using auto settings on my camera, but much of the time I find it's a guessing game as to what shutter speed & aperture to use. I was considering buying a hand held light meter, thinking that my help me learn and help me getting better photos. My question is, what type of light meter should I get, ambient, etc.?

Thanks

sss809 said:

This is a question for you pros, I'm hoping you can help me out.
I'm very much an amateur, but am trying to improve. I want to get
away from using auto settings on my camera, but much of the time I
find it's a guessing game as to what shutter speed & aperture to
use. I was considering buying a hand held light meter, thinking
that my help me learn and help me getting better photos. My
question is, what type of light meter should I get, ambient, etc.?

Click to expand...

I'd suggest a light meter that performs incident readings of both ambient and flash a couple examples are:

http://www.sekonic.com/Products/L-358.html

http://www.sekonic.com/Products/L-308S.htm

Incident light meters measure the light illuminiating an object rather than the light reflected from an object and are therefore not affected buy the objects color or reflectance:

http://www.sekonic.com/IncidentVsReflect.html

Gossen and Minolta are two other good brands of light meters.

Regards,
Scott

--
As we celebrate mediocrity all the boys upstairs want to see
How much you'll pay for what you used to get for free

• Tom Petty

It is NOT the light falling on a subject that is important. It is the light that bounces off. After all, that't the light that reaches your camera.

If you start using a 1 degree spotmeter you will learn how to evaluate a scene. You will learn how to, with just your eyes, see the brightest area in the scene and the darkest. You will learn exactly how a given amount of light will be captured rather than just guessing with averaging meters.

My vote goes for a 1 degree spot meter. It will slow you way down, but that extra time will be your education.

Thanks for the info. Can you recommend a meter for me to buy?

jimcreative said:

It is NOT the light falling on a subject that is important. It is
the light that bounces off. After all, that't the light that
reaches your camera.

If you start using a 1 degree spotmeter you will learn how to
evaluate a scene. You will learn how to, with just your eyes, see
the brightest area in the scene and the darkest. You will learn
exactly how a given amount of light will be captured rather than
just guessing with averaging meters.

My vote goes for a 1 degree spot meter. It will slow you way down,
but that extra time will be your education.

Click to expand...

A spot meter is the ultimate tool, but not for neophytes. New users have enough problem using spot meters in cameras as they don't know how to analyze and compensate for the brightness of the object.

Regards,
Scott

--
As we celebrate mediocrity all the boys upstairs want to see
How much you'll pay for what you used to get for free

• Tom Petty

Sekonic L-558 Dualmaster

it has incident, reflected, and 1 degree spot metering. Fantastic meter, I've got one.

Yes, a light meter can go a long way towards helping your exposure, however you still need to know the fundamentals of exposure - what you're exposing for, why you're exposing for it, what your film can handle, what your paper can handle (the 'dynamic range' (slightly inaccurate term, but perhaps easier to digest in the context if a digital forum) or paper is less than film - and the DR of matter paper is less than that of glossy), and how to overcome problem (eg, if you're taking photos in the snow, reflecting off the snow isn't going to help you unless you know to open the shutter.

a light meter doesn't automatically get the best exposure - it still tries to make everything 18% grey in the exact same fashion as your camera. But an external light meter makes it easier to say exactly what you want read (well, with a spot meter anyway!), as well as making it easy to do things such as reading the highlights and shadows to see if the brightness range of a scene is too great, and then finding the average of those readings...things like that.

However, you also MUST learn how to master your camera's exposure - learn how it exposes in different modes because you won't always have your light meter with you, or even if you do, you may not have time to work it.

I would strongly suggest getting a book or two on exposure, or even looking on the net for tutorials (some of the online tutorials might sink in more, books solely on exposure can get ridiculously in depth). Learn more about exposure, then when you feel limited by the capabilities of your camera, or you can truly understand how a light meter is useful (you're starting to recognise that there are things a camera meter simply can't do, or is cumbersome to do with), THEN get a light meter.

Also consider that a good light meter can last for quite some time. It's a long-term investment - if you want it to be. If you get a good one (like the L-558) it'll probably outlast your camera body, easily. It'll probably outlast this one, and the next one, at least.

Minolta Auto Meter IV-F. Once you fully understand how to use it, THEN get the spotmeter attachment. If you run out and get a great spotmeter (such as the Pentax), you will pull your hair out trying to figure how many stops above the reading that white wall is, or how many stops under that black face is.

The spotmeter recommendations are correct but it sounds like you need to work up to that if you have no handheld meter experience at all. Get a meter that will offer both ambient and spot readings.....might as well get one that offers stobe measurement while you are at it. My vote remains the Minolta IV-F, I have four of them, two in each location bag/
mark

http://www.markpix.com

You want a multi meter that does ambiant, flash and spot.

A bit belt and braces maybe, but it gives you the best of all worlds, and won't be something you'll then need to upgrade at a later point.

Sekonic are probably one of the most repested brands. I own a polaris myself, which is bit cheaper, and in my opinion just as good.

although the photography by jimcreative is technically excellent, his reply is dogmatic. it is usually unwise to trust dogmatic absolutes.

i have used both. spotmeters are excellent tools. but i find incident readings also very helpful. there's no question that spot readings accurately record the different ev's for your scene, and that they will tell you your contrast range in a way other meters will not. but incident readings can give you, the human intelligence behind the cam, a feel for the light that multiple spot readings sometimes don't. this can be very freeing, and you can concentrate more on composing and shooting.

the sekonic dualmaster is probably the best of all worlds, now, as it does both.

I know it was a dogmatic statement nad a lot does depend upon what the photographer is shooting and his/her background.

I was shooting lots of 4x5 chromes and about 18 years ago decided to shoot everything with a spotmeter and almost without exception instruct labs to process my E-6 "normal". It was an eye opener.

I bracketed for a while then got to where I was very comfortable taking a shot on one sheet of film... at least as far as exposure goes. There's always dust and lab failures.

However, I still strongly believe that, at least in theory, there is no more certain way to get it right than with a spot meter. That does not preclude the use of other tools and often an incident reading will do just fine. For the demands of shooting archtiecture incident readings are completely useless so I am strongly biased by the stuff that I shoot.

I think your advice is good.

Thanks for all the info, I appreciate it. I'll never be a pro, but I'm trying to improve enough to get good photos of my nieces & nephews.

I do think I'll spend the $$ for a meter. I just think it will help me with seeing proper exposures and learning more. This might be a stupid question, but should I still use a grey card for custom white balance when using a light meter?

Also, as pros, do any of you ever give private photography lessons? I was thinking of calling a pro in my area and see if it's possible.

Thanks

not a stupid question. the wb situation in digital is different than film, though. the easiest thing i've seen [and now use] is a whibal. google it, go to the site, watch the little video. you'll be sold. so easy a monkey could do it.

works both with raw and jpeg.

A light meter does not help with WB at all. Exposure and WB are completely different things - your light meter has nothing to do with WB.

A grey card may help, but only if it's completely neutral. Many grey cards aren't sold for the purpose of WB, so they may not be.

Run a search on WB to find out how to handle that side of things...but yeah, even with a light meter you'll still need to use the back of a grey card, coffee filter, pringles lid - whatever gimmick you like.

Or just shoot RAW, leave it on auto and figure it out later - though, with all things, you'll be a better photographer if you can learn how to get it right in camera, as you shoot.

Light meters? It's called a Histogram. The light meter sits in the draw where it belongs unless I'm doing studio work. In which case it's strictly incident. The histogram tells me all I need to know about how the light will be captured. If I need more I'll look at the actual photo on my computer.

I am using a Sekonic L508, I think this model has been replaced by the L558. Anyway its an excellent tool, allowing you to spot meter as well as performing all the usual things you expect from a light meter. Ideal for use in the field or studio. Maybe you can pick one up secondhand, or get the latest model as theoretically it can only be an improved version of my trusty L508.

Regards

Simon
--
http://www.sbphotography.org.uk

frety said:

The histogram tells me all I need to know
about how the light will be captured.

Click to expand...

Right, but you don't know that until you have taken a photo, so you are just guessing, reading a histogram, and then adjusting until it is right...

frety said:

If I need more I'll look at
the actual photo on my computer.

Click to expand...

Thats even more unuseful info, obviously you cannot look at it until you have uploaded to a computer, and unless you are shooting thethered in the field! it will normally be sometime until you see it, and what if the exposure is wrong? More importantly what has viewing a photo on the computer got to do with anything? Its got nothing to do with getting it right in the first place, which is what a lightmeter allows you to do.

the proper way to do it, is meter, set camera, take photo.

I have an old incident meter> I only use it in incident mode and never in reflective mode.. I hardly ever use my camera on auto. I disagree a little with spot meters. I had a pentax a long time ago. The problem is you want to find how much light is falling on the subject. I do not want to 1 degress on a back spot or a white spot.I don't even want a meter of the flesh because it is not 18% gray. I want all the tones on the grey scale to be seen. I want to get 18 % grey on the whole subject . So if there are blacks in the subject they will be rendered as they as. Same goes with white, or flesh as they are. I have photographed some 600 weddings over my life time and an my old incident meter is fine. An incident light meter reading is as close as you can get to perfect. I don't not subscribe to expose for shadow and print for highlights. That maybe was good for old do it your self b&w but not for digital where you really need to be close. I have a 1dmark 2 . I also have used the photoplex grey black and white stripes on one side and white balance on the other. Well that is great for portraits and studio stuff but at a wedding you don't have time to white balance and meter with a card. So i CALIBRATED MY METER TO THE CARD AND works great all the time.
Rich

While I do not disagree with previous postings I most certainly agree with yours,its called experience I know a few Photographers who can look at a scene and calmly state, f5.6 @ 1/250 and they will be correct.
Carl

I almost always use an incident meter, but it's not perfect for everything.

And there are time when it's also not the best solution - such as, landscape photography, where spot metering may be the best solution.

And spot metering does have the advantage over incident in that it can tell you the subject brightness range...

Anybody can keep shooting until there isn't any detail lost in the highlights or shadows - that doesn't take any skill.

click - move wheel to change your settings one amount - click - move wheel - click - move wheel - click - move wheel

With digital we can take bracketing to extremes.

Heck, somebody who's read a single tutorial can even make a rough guess as to how many clicks of the wheel is going to be needed to put the histogram where it belongs.

But that doesn't mean you've got any understanding of exposure whatsoever. Anybody who exposes purely from the histogram and has no interest in learning otherwise has no interest in learning the craft and are severely limiting themselves, IMHO.

And with a spot meter you can tell even before you unpack your camera, lens, filter, tripod and head if you're going to be able to capture all the detail or not.

There's a good reason why the only people you see checking the back of their camera immediately after every shot are called amateurs.....

Reading a histogram has absolutely nothing to do with exposure. It can lead you to a roughly correct one, but it has nothing to do with understanding exposure.

And considering we're dealing with light, I would say that understanding exposure is even more fundamental than understanding composition.