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misha
Guest
Isn't a big sensor one of the big advantages of an SLR - just look at some ISO400 or even ISO200 samples from small sensor cameras.
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Misha
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I bought the S2 instead of the 70-300DO ?
- Thread starter Tom F>
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Misha
excal
Veteran Member
Yes, but a big clunky SLR isn't always what you want. And a fixed lens P&S isn't either. A "honey I shrunk the SLR" camera would be well cool for some situations. The hyperzooms like the S2 are close, but EVF viewfinders and the fact your stuck with the lens they want you to have and a slow AF, slow frame rate etc. etc. means they don't do what I'd like to see.
Excal
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Excal
Tarpon6
Leading Member
I think the 70-300 DO is overpriced and very soft.
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Dan
Canon EOS Rebel 300D w/ 18-55 kit lens Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM
Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM Canon EF 28-105mm 3.5-4.5 USM II
Canon EF 50mm 1.8 Canon 420 EX
http://www.pbase.com/drimar
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Dan
Canon EOS Rebel 300D w/ 18-55 kit lens Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM
Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM Canon EF 28-105mm 3.5-4.5 USM II
Canon EF 50mm 1.8 Canon 420 EX
http://www.pbase.com/drimar
S2 has only 2/3 the reach of the 75-300IS on the XT and it's 2-3 stops slower. Do you find that limiting?
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Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)
jack scholl
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It all depends on how you are going to use it.
We loved our FZ10 and had great fun with it. But the limitations of sensor size, crop limitations due to MP, noise and action shots moved us to the 20D with a 17-85 IS and 70-300 DO (have a 50mmf1.4 but sure haven't used it much). At this point in time this is the perfect combo for how we take pics. They are relatively compact, yet have all the advantages the 20D offers in the previously mentioned areas.
When we left the Panasonic Forum, several folks predicted we would miss the size and convenience of a all-in-one and would be back. No sign of that happening as yet, but never say never.
Throwing one body/lens on my shoulder and having the other one in a belt pouch allows me to go for hours with one lens change option and 17mm (28) to 300mm(480) range-all with IS and ISO options to 1600 with very limited PS work (3200 when necessary). At this point, life is good.
But it all depends on what you want to do and how you want to use the equipment.
Jack
http://www.pbase.com/jrs40
We loved our FZ10 and had great fun with it. But the limitations of sensor size, crop limitations due to MP, noise and action shots moved us to the 20D with a 17-85 IS and 70-300 DO (have a 50mmf1.4 but sure haven't used it much). At this point in time this is the perfect combo for how we take pics. They are relatively compact, yet have all the advantages the 20D offers in the previously mentioned areas.
When we left the Panasonic Forum, several folks predicted we would miss the size and convenience of a all-in-one and would be back. No sign of that happening as yet, but never say never.
Throwing one body/lens on my shoulder and having the other one in a belt pouch allows me to go for hours with one lens change option and 17mm (28) to 300mm(480) range-all with IS and ISO options to 1600 with very limited PS work (3200 when necessary). At this point, life is good.
But it all depends on what you want to do and how you want to use the equipment.
Jack
http://www.pbase.com/jrs40
Well, Olympus has started in that direction with their 4/3 system. They have announced some f/2 zooms that just simply do not exist in the Canon and Nikon lineup. The tradeoff? The 4/3 sensor has about 1 stop noise penalty for its 2X crop sensor which is made up by the f/2 zooms, which is about the same as the f/2.8 zooms offered by Canon and Nikon. The difference is that the lenses for the 4/3 system is smaller and lighter.
It would be nice if Canon starts a new lens/sensor SLR system at say 2.5-3X crop factor with fast zooms at f/1.2 to f/1.4. It would be a big success if this new sensor can have a usable ISO at 1600. It would have 1-2 stop advantage to the current EF system, not mentioning the weight advantage. A new line of mini L lenses would be great to start a new era.
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Nelson
I agree. If Canon sells it for $700-$800, it would be a good deal. At that price point, it's about 1/2 way between its current price and that of the 75-300. The DO lenses were supposed to be cheaper to make. I guess that never happened.
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Nelson
I've never heard a claim that a DO lens would be lower priced,The advantage is smaller size...I have a 100-400 and a 70-300DO. I've tested them. At equal FL's they are reasonably close with the 100-400 having a slight edge at longer FL's and obviously 100mm more reach.After post-processing,in BIG prints the differences are small.The 70-300 goes a lot of places the 100-400 is just too inconvenient to take.It's worth every penny I paid for it.
300 feet away with 70-300DO
flower at 40 feet
300 feet away with 70-300DO
flower at 40 feet
Adam-T
Forum Pro
It doesn't take Canon lenses and you still need a xx-300mm Zoom !! - now you've got to buy a Nikon mount one as well ;-P
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Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist
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Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist
Mattebox
Well-known member
I Recently sold my Panasonic Lumix FZ20, which has slightly better optics than the S2. It was the best possible travel camera, for light weight, 12x zoom, stabilized lens etc etc etc. The pics are amazing. Unless you have L glass or close to, the images are right up there. One major problem, you cannot get acceptable images past 100 asa. You cannot manual focus through the lens with an optical viewfinder. Focus is a major issue with LCD's in bright sun. You just have to trust it.
I really don't need to spell it all out, as most of us know that a DSLR is just superior, and I was a hard convert. But the image quality with the 20D and all the other performance benefits far outweigh the extra weight etc. They are apples and oranges. I can't make money and produce pro quality photos consistently with a point and shoot, as fun and easy as they are. I will probably purchase another p&s just for fun, but most of my photography is to make money, or get the best possible photo quality. I would only use the p&s if I just could not possibly bring my DSLR along.
The lenses for the 4/3 system are still quite large and heavy, and the smaller sensor still means more noise. 400 asa on the 20D is the same as 80asa on the Lumix, as far as noise is concerned. Being able to use 800 asa without a problem, is huge. 1600asa is equivelent to 200asa on the p&s.
The FZ20 had ED glass with a constant 2.8 throughout the zoom range. The bokeh or depth of field at 2.8 on the FZ20 looks the same as f 11 on the 20D at 200mm equivalent. You can quickly see the shortcomings of p&s.
Cheers, Ted
I really don't need to spell it all out, as most of us know that a DSLR is just superior, and I was a hard convert. But the image quality with the 20D and all the other performance benefits far outweigh the extra weight etc. They are apples and oranges. I can't make money and produce pro quality photos consistently with a point and shoot, as fun and easy as they are. I will probably purchase another p&s just for fun, but most of my photography is to make money, or get the best possible photo quality. I would only use the p&s if I just could not possibly bring my DSLR along.
The lenses for the 4/3 system are still quite large and heavy, and the smaller sensor still means more noise. 400 asa on the 20D is the same as 80asa on the Lumix, as far as noise is concerned. Being able to use 800 asa without a problem, is huge. 1600asa is equivelent to 200asa on the p&s.
The FZ20 had ED glass with a constant 2.8 throughout the zoom range. The bokeh or depth of field at 2.8 on the FZ20 looks the same as f 11 on the 20D at 200mm equivalent. You can quickly see the shortcomings of p&s.
Cheers, Ted
excal
Veteran Member
totally agree. but the s2 has one trick an SLR can't... video!
there are reasons to own both!
Excal
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Excal
M
misha
Guest
But then it's video is not up to par with a good digital camcorder, so might get that instead
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Misha
eosnob
Active member
If I'd wanted video I'll get a camcorder, which would give vastly superior videoing facilities than P&S. Hell, my Sony Ericsson mobile can produce video clips too, so would you compare the S2 to that?
sugar208304
Senior Member
take a lok at the Epson Rd-1. It's quite expensive though 
sugar
Less is more...
sadly, this rule does not apply to lenses...
sugar
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Less is more...
sadly, this rule does not apply to lenses...
jerryk
Veteran Member
I agree.
The 70-300 DO IS is agreat travel lens. Not a sharp as the 70-200L f2.8 I have, but pretty darn close, and a lot easier to carry.
Glad to hear it compares well to the 100-400.
BTW, those are great shots.
jerry
The 70-300 DO IS is agreat travel lens. Not a sharp as the 70-200L f2.8 I have, but pretty darn close, and a lot easier to carry.
Glad to hear it compares well to the 100-400.
BTW, those are great shots.
jerry
excal
Veteran Member
I'd rather take an S2 over a video camera - my dad bought a Panasonic I think it was for about £250 a few months back. I'm not impressed - even though it claimed to be digital, it was analogue! There was no way I could find to hook it up to USB and download the movie - just playback and sample it over PAL. Yuk! The S2 is pure digital AVI.... just a shame it's not MPEG compressed, but hey, perhaps the S3? So, I have a lot of respect for the S2 for video from what I've seen of it's competitors on the other side of the fence. The Canon £2,000 one is a another matter though...
Excal
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Excal
excal
Veteran Member
Ah, now ISO1600 on such a small sensor... don't think so at the moment... unless Fuji licence their sensor tech to Canon?
But I think a new (high quality) mini-SLR format would fly. Imagine the lenses... they would be soooo cute!
Have you ever seen the EagleEye or CrystalVue type monoculars... ?--
Excal
David Eicher
Forum Enthusiast
I hvae a 20D plus assorted lenses, s70 when I need something in my pocket, and an Optura 500 for video, very compact and produces crystal clear widescreen for DVD'S (EVEN 2MP STILLS!) I often will take all of them with me on a trip so they are available for different situations, (I have an underwater case for the s70) I put DVD shows together quite easily using media from all 3 sources.
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David
http://members.cox.net/photochef/
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David
http://members.cox.net/photochef/
ImBuz
Forum Enthusiast
and the 10/22, and went on a cruise to Scandinavia----I took about 20 pics with the 70?300DO, and 850 with the 10/22----I just love this lens--
Happy shooting one and all
Buz
Happy shooting one and all
Buz
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