Can our photos help terrorists?

Welcome back...

I doubt if a general photo is going to help a terrorist, however we should probably avoid postulating in public forum on what could be beneficial to them.

--
Phil

Equipment list in profile, taste in neon below.

 
We had a strange adventure recently. We were heading for the beach
to photograph the sunset but we did not make it on time. On the way
we passed a nice industrial plant that looked a bit like from a
Star War movie with the warm sunset light and the moon beside it.

Innocently we stopped to take a few pics. It did not took long let
me tell you that much. less then 5 minutes and there was 2 police
cars with 4 police officers surrounding us in no time.

They asked for our ID and took us apart to question us just to see
if our stories would match. I felt like a criminal or something!

Finaly I managed to get an answer to my question "is it illegal to
take photos of that plant?" "NO, it is not illegal but we want to
know who is taking photo and why" that was the reply. They
questioned us for a good half hour, asking all sort of questions
about our personal life.

he told me that this specific plant was on the 7 top terrorist target.

But now I have another worry, is it a real danger that someone
with bad intentions would use our photos to help in terrorist
attacks or sabotage? I have not posted the photos and I am afraid
to do so. what are the risks? is it a real risk?

what can they do with web size photos? Should we worry that our
photos can serve such purpose?

--



Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send
them to me via email instead! thanks.
 
As with most things security related, it comes down to perceived
levels of security.

There are no cost-effective systems in existence that can be sure
to keep every criminal out, not one; however the mere presence of
"perceived security" will reduce the chances of that particular
location becoming a target.
so basicaly all this display was just to spread the word that this place has strong security, rather then stop the threat of photographs of the place going about in the wild wild world?

They seemed a lot more interested in us than our photos..they gave no advise about them nor asked us to delete them..they did not seemed concerned about the photographs already been taken at all. which I thought was strange.
As an example, a crook will likely pass by a house with an
advertised security system in favour of a house with no "apparent"
security. The fact that the security system is fallible is of no
consequence, and the seasoned crook will easily get inside, but for
the easy target next door.

People feel more comfortable knowing that their house is less
likely to be a target than the next guy's house.

Terrorists would prefer not to have their ID's checked out for
taking pictures, so by knowing that they will get checked, they'd
rather not take pictures. The truth is that the real pro-terrorist
can do a drive-by shoot (camera) as easily as they can learn to fly.
easier I would think. Surely a terrorist will not walk in the street in bread day light and take photos of the place..set up a tripod and take the time to "frame" the shot with a good composition.
Non-photographer residents probably "feel" more comfortable seeing
the police question photographers and go home feeling "secure".
yes but a false sense of security can be misleading and a double edges knife..if you knwo what I mean.
It sucks, it really does, but it goes about perceptions and those
aren’t going to change soon.

The new challenge will be getting the pictures of the “protected
areas” and having bragging rights for the level of success.
I think if I had knew that this was a terrorist target I would not have stopped to take photos. I prefer to avoid these places but I unfortunatly like the industrial plants very much. I think they look cool and that was a cool sight.

now I'll be afraid to photograph them.
--
--------
Patrol

--



Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send them to me via email instead! thanks.
 
It must be a lot more appealing for the police to spend their time on duty harassing innocent middle-class people with cameras than to go into drug-ridden crimespots risking life and limb...

--

 
Finaly I managed to get an answer to my question "is it illegal to
take photos of that plant?" "NO, it is not illegal but we want to
know who is taking photo and why" that was the reply. They
questioned us for a good half hour, asking all sort of questions
about our personal life.
How close were you to the plant? I ask this because I had a recent
incident here in Boston while taking pictures of the PO office.
The officer and the other cops that arrived 4 minutes later were
quite civil about his matter. They told me I could not point my
camera to the PO but they did not care that if I took pictures of
the harbor while at the parking of the PO building. (Boston Harbor
faces the opposite side of the PO).
I was in the street that goes beside this building. it's a a public street with private houses and a few little stores. PO? what'S that?
The question or answer I got, this was in another post regarding
security, is that it is legal to take such pictures if you are
outside the premises. However in your case it looks like these
officers felt entitled to ask you personal questions even though
you were outside the premises.

Hmm! Sounds to me that the way the laws are carried out vary by
state, building or the personality of the officers perhaps? I
should add that this was a beautifull New England evening...
or the place being photograph? maybe they take seriously only some target. The funny thing is the military were more decent..they did not ask us for our ID simply told us not to take photos on their side of the fence...everything on their side is forbidden to the camera...then left..not asking if we already took photos or not (we did not). the police were a lot more serious about it, like we criminals or potential criminals.
.
But now I have another worry, is it a real danger that someone
with bad intentions would use our photos to help in terrorist
attacks or sabotage? I have not posted the photos and I am afraid
to do so. what are the risks? is it a real risk?
Terrorism for me is 90 % psychological warfare with the main actors
being a government and it opposition (at times referred as
terrorists). I interpret the act of the cops stopping you as
nothing but a government and its politicians making a formal or
visible response to the population at large that they are ready to
respond to terrorism. Terrorists groups, local or imports, will
play the same cat and mouse games by making multiple threats to
divert and keep government forces busy. I therefore assume that
terrorists, in answer to the question regarding you photos, have
already sent hundreds of pictures (both vector and bitmaps) and a
time agenda of the many sites they want government forces to
believe are next in line to be blown apart. I do not think that
additional pictures on the web, yours or others, will have any
practical impact on this psychological warfare.
yes you're probably right.
I recall back in the early 80s when my home country (Lima, Peru)
had the highest level of people in the world that disappeared as a
result of terrorist acts perpetrated by government and citizen
forces (Shining Path being one of these elements). Psychological
warfare and the cat and mouse games play by these forces was almost
as real as the actual terrorist attacks. Here in this country we
have Waco, the Oklahoma City bombings and 9/11. From my
perspective I think of these events as the gradual Latin
Americanization of the US in a smaller scale. I have no idea if
the actual attacks will increase or be contained.
yes but the things is that none of the actual targets were suspected targets. They don't exactly attack what the authorities think they will attack. what they suspect to be terrorits targets are far from the reality it seems.
Psychological warfare, however, is part of our national fabric. It
is just who we are now.

Saludos!

Eduardo
--



Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send them to me via email instead! thanks.
 
They asked for our ID and took us apart to question us just to see
if our stories would match. I felt like a criminal or something!
You should have shown your ID's and told them you were not willing
to be separated or questioned; that you were United States citizens
enjoying the freedoms the United States Constitution gives you.
we are not american citizens. I am canadian.
Finaly I managed to get an answer to my question "is it illegal to
take photos of that plant?" "NO, it is not illegal but we want to
know who is taking photo and why" that was the reply. They
questioned us for a good half hour, asking all sort of questions
about our personal life.
After around 5 minutes you should have told them to either arrest
you or release you.
well, I have nothing to hide so I did not felt threatened by their questions..just felt a bit strange. Like from a movie because it was over-exagerated.
he told me that this specific plant was on the 7 top terrorist target.
You should have told him that he was a certified moron for giving
you such classified information; asked him for his name and badge
number, and told him that if he didn't release you that very moment
you would see to it that everyone in America knew what a dimwit he
was.
yes a few people mentioned that..I did not relaized it was a classified info, but rather thought it was a well-known fact maybe which only both of use ignored.
But now I have another worry, is it a real danger that someone
with bad intentions would use our photos to help in terrorist
attacks or sabotage? I have not posted the photos and I am afraid
to do so. what are the risks? is it a real risk?
GET REAL!
what can they do with web size photos? Should we worry that our
photos can serve such purpose?
Why are you asking other people if you should worry, as it seems
you already are.
I sure am but I am asking other people to know if my worry is justified or not.

You should be worrying more about the erosions of
freedom and the attack upon your personal liberty than the
possibility that someone 5000 miles away might use your photo for
an attack.
I am concerned about that too. That part was quite scary actualy, especialy when you go through it and when you are being separated and questioned.

--



Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send them to me via email instead! thanks.
 
seems a few here have a false sense of security, or a false impression. In Canada the closest we get to terrorist threat are the "hell angel" motorcycle clans war.

They put bombs to kill each other but unfortunatly they also kill inocent people at the same time. They killed a young boy in Montreal when a bomb exploded in a truck. I remember being woke up in the middle of the night by a hudge "boom" and the house shook..they had put a bomb in a store near by who was owned by a rival band leader. the crater that it made was 5 feet deep and about 30 feet diameter..no more store but a pile of rubbles.

but that's about it. I did not grew up with the threat of terrorist or war, so I probably too have a false sense of security. At least it is hard for me to understand how my taking photos is a threat.

--



Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send them to me via email instead! thanks.
 
Welcome back...

I doubt if a general photo is going to help a terrorist, however we
should probably avoid postulating in public forum on what could be
beneficial to them.
that'S why I did not mentioned the name of the place nor the location. Top secret :)
--
Phil

Equipment list in profile, taste in neon below.

--



Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send them to me via email instead! thanks.
 
Je crois que tu exagere encore un peu dans tes commentaires, comme si il avait juste sa a faire de verifer les centaine de photo prise a tous les jours de cette place la.Voyons!! On est pas si cave que sa quand meme

--



Merci
Thanks
 
Yes our photos can help terrorists but guess what? a 15x 8MP digicam can do this very well. Most targets have been already photographed like crazy and their pictures are everywhere.

When the FBI head says that they think photography was involved does he think people are stupid? I mean hello ? There are 7MP camera phones these days. Why would someone who wants to hide his intentions take out a tripod and use a $3k lens and SLR is beyond me.

Yiannis
--

Never argue with a stupid man. He will drag you down to his level and beat you because of his experience.
 
Do you really believe that those brief translations (taken out of context) give a objective view of Sweden? :-)
--
P-E
 
--Security forces are MORONS. Do they think someone will visibly
walk up to a potential target and start taking pictures? They will have
hidden cameras and no one will know they've taken pictures.
Anyone could do it, so harrassing conventional photographers in order
to justify your job is a mistake.
-Rich
 
Daniella you have obviously discovered an good way of attracting
Police attention ! Here in the UK if you report a burglary in
process you will be lucky to get a Police response in less than an
hour.
well that'S no joke...my boyfriend did not even had the time to
join me with his tripod that the police were there. just the time
it took for him to get his tripod from the car and walk a 100 feet
or so and bingo.

I had the time to take about 20 or so pics.
--So have you posted any of the photos of this supposed terrorist
target?
-Rich
 
my boyfriend is Russian too. The police said when they were
questioning us after a while, "your canadian and he's russian, so
we are more concerned"

bad thing..we are not terrorist just photographers. And russians
are no terrorists either.
But Canuckistanis? We're not so sure...
 
You should have shown your ID's and told them you were not willing
to be separated or questioned; that you were United States citizens
enjoying the freedoms the United States Constitution gives you.
we are not american citizens. I am canadian.
The US constitution applies to everybody in the US, regardless of citizenship, immigration status, etc.
 
was it that plant/ refinery near i-80's carquinez bridge? i sneak a peak for a possible photo every time i pass it but i guess it's not a good time to take such photos right now... maybe in ten years...
--
Mark
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top