Any SD20 owner here?

I just got my SD20 recently but I'm not too happy with the photos. I find most photos were either underexposed or exposed incorrectly. In most situations I had to turn the exposure to +1 to get proper exposure to darker areas. Anyone else having this problem?

There aren't many digital camera hobbyists who own the sd20. People don't think it's good because it lacks zoom. I've never met someone who has the sd20 who's unhappy with it.

I've owned 3 of them and they have all been right up there with an s400: some pics better, some pics worse.

I do notice that the s400 pictures are brighter. In some cases this is no good. Maybe people turn down the exposure a notch because the sun washes out some things. In the sd20, you might want to turn it up a notch.

What you're talking about seems strange, though. Maybe you could post or email a couple of pictures so we can have a look at them. I don't have any problems with mine. Maybe you got a bad one?

Here's a few threads about the camera with beautiful samples:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=12612226
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=13311398
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=13143807

I have the SD20 and am very happy with mine. It does have certain limitations though.

Its strengths are its super-sharp lens, and its weakness is that it's not so great in low light.

So you need to use it in fairly good light, or else make sure you use the flash and get within about 6ft. If you can do that you should get superb pictures.

It does sound a bit strange from your description. Can you post a few samples, then maybe we can help...?

Thanks for the replies. I shoot under adequate or bright lights.

This is shot under bright lights, yet the picture looks dark to me.
exposure +0



Things seem to have improved, but some highlights are lost.
exposure +1



Same story here
exposure +0



exposure +1



Foreground's details are too dark, and most highlights in background are lost. A +1 here will blow even more highlights away.
exposure +0



It appears this camera tends to push the details to either side of the histrogram, rather than capture and create a natural/even distribution on the histogram.

No such problem here. Our household also possesses Sony DCS-707, Canon A95, and Pentax IstDS, and the exposure accuracy on the SD20 seems as good as any of them.

I bought the SD20 because I found, after coming back from a cycling trip to Switzerland where I took the A95, that of the 1200 images I took, only about a dozen were taken with the zoom at anything other than the widest setting. In fact I wound up with about 110 stitched-together panoramas of three or more images (the biggest was a 3x3 matrix of nine images).

The lens in the SD20 has noticeably less chromatic aberration than that in the A95.

I think that you may need to check your monitor settings. The normally exposed images look like they're properly exposed, the corrected ones are way overexposed.

The exposures in all three shots you supplied look fine on my monitor considering the subject matter... you may want to check this and then examine your photos again? The 'corrected' version of the 'pegs' definitely looks overexposed to me

The final picture has a lot of contrast and maybe you were looking for a different effect...? If you want both foreground and background details to be visible in that particular shot then maybe what in fact you may be concerned about is a lack of 'dynamic range' which is a different matter entirely! The little SD cameras tend to be quite 'contrasty' by nature and so this can result in loss of shadow detail and/or highlights in some circumstances!

Remember that by default the camera uses a 'matrix' exposure mode which takes account of the exposure in different areas of the image and makes it's metering decision accordingly... if you are interested in metering one only particular area you have the 'spot metering ' option or if you want a slightly more 'even' exposure you can choose the 'Centre Weighted' (or 'Center Weighted' depending on your prefered version of English) exposure option instead. Try experimenting with the 'spot' metering option (if you haven't already) to see if you suffer the same problems!

I have the older version of this camera, the 4MP SD10, and I have to say that I continue to be delighted with mine... I would advise you to persevere a little longer with yours. IMHO you won't find anything else around as small and sharp...

Good luck!

Thanks for the replies.

PP, I think the 'contrasty' issue is what I'm concerned with. As many of you pointed out, those +1 pics were way overexposed. I agree with that. But the reason I used +1 was because many details in the pics were either underexposed or overexposed, and hence look 'contrasty', so apparently adjusting the exposure won't solve the problem.

My last camera was a S400 (lost it ). Pics taken with the S400 had vibrant and even color distribution. I guess I'm not used the contrasty pics of the SD20, though the sharpness is nice.

Yes, I see what you mean. But, I don't think that what you're getting is necessarily bad. Mine looks the same. Sometimes I see this on my camera too. What I do is usually use the Center Weighted Metering, set the focus and exposure (half push) on a slightly darker area (or just point it down a touch more if you're outside) then recompose the shot.

If you're like me you don't like to edit images on the computer (the computer is my photo album only!). Looking at the picture of the deck (and maybe the clothespins), I'd say the first pic looks like an sd20 pic, and the +1 exposure looks like a s400 pic - washed out in comparison. Maybe you could try just +1/3 exposure? Maybe that or +2/3 would give you a happy medium?

about the last picture, I think it's impossible to get that metered correctly seeing that part of the picture is shade and part is in direct sunlight. I don't know of a way to do this other than take two pictures of different exposures and cut and paste the middle section of the dark one onto the bright one!

Like you've probably read, I don't think there's too many owners who are unhappy with the sd20. Your choice of the s400 and the sd20 are very good. They are the sharpest compacts ever made.

Here are some Dpreview user comments.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/read_opinions.asp?prodkey=canon_sd20
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/read_opinions.asp?prodkey=canon_sd10

revelry1 said:

Thanks for the replies.

PP, I think the 'contrasty' issue is what I'm concerned with. As
many of you pointed out, those +1 pics were way overexposed. I
agree with that. But the reason I used +1 was because many details
in the pics were either underexposed or overexposed, and hence look
'contrasty', so apparently adjusting the exposure won't solve the
problem.

My last camera was a S400 (lost it ). Pics taken with the S400
had vibrant and even color distribution. I guess I'm not used the
contrasty pics of the SD20, though the sharpness is nice.

Click to expand...

That's what it must be... the SD20 does have a slightly 'hyped' contrast curve which means that you stand the risk of loosing detail at either end of the exposure range. The sensor on the S400 is quite a lot bigger than that on the SD20 and so you would probably have got more dynamic range with that camera (not least because I strongly suspect there is quite a lot of NR processing going on in the SD20 which will further reduce the dynamic range available by rasing the 'noise-floor')

I think the key thing to remember, however, is that the SD20 is basically a take-anywhere second camera. I carry mine with me everywhere and I find it is absolutely brilliant for recording people, places, and things I come across in everyday life... its rather nice macro is an added bonus. The sharpness and the smooth output images mean it can take these sorts of photos with a quality very similar to that offered by the 'prosumer' models in Canon's range. I guess it is basically a foretaste of what the better camera-phones/pda's are going to offer in a few years time... However it's not really a camera for 'creative' photography:

• no 'zoom' lens so limited possibility for 'playing' with perspectives
• no aperture mechanism so no control over DOF
• no manual control over shutter-speed or aperture (if such existed) anyway

Your sensitivity to blown-highlights and lost shadow detail suggest you are keen on photography and have a good eye for image quality. Maybe you need a second, larger, camera to take with you for the times when you want to be a bit more 'creative' or when you know you are going to be taking subjects that the SD20 is not so good at? This 'other' camera could be anything from an S410 to a DSLR... the great thing is that owning the SD20 'frees' you so you can choose a big, heavy lump of a camera for those special times when you're prepared to carry the weight, but yet still have a 'photo-capability' at all other times via the SD20!!! Though please don't get me wrong: I really don't mean to sound blase about the cost involved in buying a 'second' camera, particularly when you've just 'forked-out' on the SD20... In my case that 'other camera' was my old 35mm Minolta SLR system until very recently...

As I said previously, I personally think the SD20 is a great little camera and I really hope you are able to get benefit from yours....

Good luck!

Should have known about the dynamic range issue before I bought it. Too bad most digital camera review sites just lump a bunch of cameras into the "very good image quality" category. There's no way to tell the difference on the little things.

Well too late to refund, it's not like there are any better camera choice that suits my needs anyway

After losing the S400 I don't want to buy another S400, or the identical S410. What I needed was a camera just as small but with as good or better image quality, and I ended up with SD20.

I was thinking about the same thing. It would be nice to have a carry anywhere camera, plus a bulky but more professional one. I agree it's not going to be cheap. It's not likely that I'll be purchasing anything in a year, or two... depending on the cost of the 'other' camera, and if there's any groundbreaking innnovation (like the S400 in the past).

I've never owned anything beyond the not-too-expensive S400, so I'll have a hard time choosing when the time comes. Canon does very well in lower-end to midrange camera but it seems there are more competitors at the DSLR level, that makes it even harder to choose.

IMO the foremost important thing a digital camera should deliver is faithful color reproduction, second is sharpness/non-blurry-images, third is zoom and other misc features.

I had my eyes on Sigma's Foveon X3 technology. The technique they use to capture colors is pretty much the best on the market. Unfortunately it's the only outstanding feature. I haven't looked into other DSLRs atm.

revelry1 said:

I've never owned anything beyond the not-too-expensive S400, so
I'll have a hard time choosing when the time comes. Canon does very
well in lower-end to midrange camera but it seems there are more
competitors at the DSLR level, that makes it even harder to choose.

IMO the foremost important thing a digital camera should deliver is
faithful color reproduction, second is sharpness/non-blurry-images,
third is zoom and other misc features.

I had my eyes on Sigma's Foveon X3 technology. The technique they
use to capture colors is pretty much the best on the market.
Unfortunately it's the only outstanding feature. I haven't looked
into other DSLRs atm.

Click to expand...

I'm going to get badly flamed for saying this, but my own impression is that Canon colours aren't very 'faithful'... however I much prefer the 'cheerful' output from Canon's P&S digicams to the grey, grainy offerings I see from other manufacturer's compacts and ultra-compacts

Yes... like you I really like the images I see in the Sigma forum as well, it's just a shame that the SD9 and SD10 (Sigma, not Canon!) are so large and expensive and seem to have so many other issues with them :-(. I also had a few hopes for the Polariod compact x530 but the samples from that model speak for themselves :-Q

In the end I decided that a Pentax DS was going to be my 'big heavy' camera and so my two X700's are currently being pensioned-off. To be honest I would have probably gone for a Pro1 if it had offered a better shutter response but Canon don't want anything to get in the way of 350D/XT (+ associated lenses) sales for the moment (ie. no Digic II chipsets in their Prosumer models) so DSLR is all we've got and after a lot of deliberation I decided the Pentax model (and particularly the Pentax 'prime' lenses) appealed to me more than the XT or the D70

If you are going to be buying in 12-18 months time then things will be different again and I strongly suspect that 'Prosumer Digicams' will have made a bit of a resurgence - particularly with the new chipsets and also the better high-ISO performance that some of the latest sensors are now offering - but who knows?

Good luck, anyway!

Did you have any luck with your pictures? I recompared some s400 to the sd20 pictures and the s400's are all usually brighter or sometimes too bright. The sd20 is just the opposite, darker or a little too dark. I just turn the exposure up one notch, never more.

It depends on the light condition. Sometimes +1/3 is better than +2/3, sometimes +1 is needed. I probably need to take more pictures before I can tell which exposure setting to use under which lighting condition.

However, if the image itself has too many dark and bright spots (high dynamic range?), then it will result in an over-exposed and under-exposed picture. No exposure compensation can help, whereas a S400 in this case can probably handle it better.

The camera does okay when the dynamic range isn't too wide. Close up (less than 1.5 meter?) flash performance is quite impressive. Very sharp image, great carry-anywhere camera for taking photos with people on a night out. Haven't taken flash photos with subjects away from the camera for more than 1.5m yet.

Overall, some S400 shots seem sharper than the S20, don't know if it's because my hands were shaking when I pressed the shutter button.

revelry1 said:

Overall, some S400 shots seem sharper than the S20, don't know if
it's because my hands were shaking when I pressed the shutter
button.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree with you. I don't want to agree with you seeing that I bought my sd20 to be sharper than the s400. I think the s400, overall, takes sharper pictures. But, the sd20's lens is definitely better and never washes out anything like the s400 does. The s400 is in no case bad here because I'm sure that it's better almost all ultra compacts in this area.

The s400 has corner softness and on mine, the bottom of the picture has some fuzziness (Maybe the top too, didn't check because it's usually the sky. Maybe I should take the next landscape pic upsidedown and see!).

Either way, the combination of both is a great pair of cameras to have.