Anyone feel like me re CS2

For those who dont want CS2, you can easily make the same thing as
the smart sharpen in an action. Make copy of original. You
oversharpen your photo, then make two layers. One set to lighten
and one to darken and adjust the opacity of each to suit.
And use the lens blur on a layer and get Focus Magic or Ronnie's noisecooler with deconvolution.

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Kent

http://www.pbase.com/kentc
For prior discussions on most questions:
http://porg.4t.com/KentC.html
or d/l 'archives' at:
http://www.atncentral.com
 
I'm not knocking CS2...
Sure you are, look at your list ;-) The speed problems are 'agent relative' and most on the adobe forum are running faster in CS2 than CS, Bridge than File Browser, and ACR 3 than 2.4. Which also happens to be my case without a bleeding edge computer.
I just don't need the improvements plus I
need to build a new PC just to run it at a normal speed! If you
don't have CS then go ahead and get CS2 if your PC can handle it.
Good advice, unless one is shooting RAW, imo, and happens to need the new features.
Vanishing Point
Don't see where I would need it...can do the same thing in CS but
not as easy.
Not easy, especially if you have to resize objects on a gradient to make them fit the image.

A few comments:
Camera doesn't shoot RAW
A significant point and one that Bert, imo, should reconsider.
High Dynamic Range editing
I got the same result using PWL on their Sample pictures
I get the same effect of PWL with the much faster Shadows/highlights and perhaps some Selective color tweaks - the point being. "for some", the faster and easier the workflow, the better.
Exposure Merge
Isn't that HDR MERGE the same as above?
I think that should have been 'exposure adjustment' that works along with HDR merge, but other files as well.

As far as the 'can do it as well, elsewhere' comments - that has been virtually true of every 'new feature' in every upgrade in Photoshop. Much depends on one's level of skill or how many plugins one can afford, and how much time one has.

--
Kent

http://www.pbase.com/kentc
For prior discussions on most questions:
http://porg.4t.com/KentC.html
or d/l 'archives' at:
http://www.atncentral.com
 
Well I'm glad I took the time to read this thread. It seems that CS2 wouldnt be worth the upgrade to me since I do my RAW procesing in Nikon Capture which offers curves, d-lighting (shadow/highlight), LCH editor, noise reduction, USM, color boost, crop, straighten, resize, white balance, exposure control, contrast and a host of other features including batch. And I never use file browser. It seems to me that CS2 doesnt offer me more than CS in these features. Also, it applies the in camera settings that CS doesnt seem to apply. Only drawback is its is a bit slow. That doesnt bother me as I convert all my images to 8 bit jpeg for preview through batch then open the ones I want to focus on individually. Many of them I don't need much in CS and I'll go back and batch them to 16 bit to polish in Photoshop. I think I'll stick with what I have and hold my $ for another release. Thanks for sharing the thoughts and info. I would hate to spend that much money and feel as if I didn't get what I was expecting.
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Bman
 
and it doesn't hold a candle to Neat Image.

As a matter of fact, even running it with everything (except sharpen details) all the way to the right (10, 100, 100, 0) I would click the layer on and off and see absolutely no difference.

I turned off this layer and duplicated the background again, ran Neat Image, and the improvement is noticeable.

I'm wondering if maybe my copy is broken (I have the CS2 workspace on and Noise Removal doesn't turn blue) although I do get the dialog and it seems to go through all the motions. But other than "sharpen details" (which actually makes matters much worse) I don't see either the preview image or the larger version in PS affected by what I'm doing.
--
Kate
 
did live up to expectations.

An additional try at the noise filter gave slightly better results, but still not anywhere near Neat Image.

--
Kate
 
Ingrid,

I am playing with the trial version until mine comes on Friday. I can say so far, that I love the smart sharpen but I tried out the vanishing point using tutorials and I can only get halfway on it and then I lose the understanding. I have a feeling that this will be a learning curve. Plus I thought that cloning would be easier using this tool but it still picks up objects if you don't do a little at a time. I was hoping that this feature would stop that from happening. I also was hoping that Adobe would make extracting so much easier but that didn't happen elsewhere.

I don't like the fact that, you can't lock individual layers anymore in the Layers pallette. I miss that.

Overall, I like it.

The only problem I am having is CS2 won't let me pull it up using a desktop shortcut. I have to go under explore, programs and adobe CS2 and then click on the shortcut to launch it. I don't know what the problem is. I hope the one I get on Friday is not like that.

--



Melissa
catz
PBASE Supporter and
NAPP Member
Proud owner of a Nikon D2X
Still use the Fuji S2 for backup
 
I'll try these more conservative settings, maybe more is not better. I've been running it on 400 ISO images that are pretty noisy because it was so dark (I probably should have used 800 ISO), but it wasn't even making a dent on the noise.

By the way, do you know what the benefit would be to run it in the individual channels? And would doing so be in addition to or instead of the settings in the basic tab?

(I have the same concern about smart sharpen and the settings in highlights and shadows and the basic tab).
--
Kate
 
Thanks for the helpful link. I'm still trying to get a handle on what CS2 can do.

--
Lucinda
8080 & Metz 54 MZ-3
http://lucinda.smugmug.com
 
I'll try these more conservative settings, maybe more is not
better. I've been running it on 400 ISO images that are pretty
noisy because it was so dark (I probably should have used 800 ISO),
but it wasn't even making a dent on the noise.
For one thing - the dialog box takes up the whole workspace and right at first I was turning 'preview' off and on and it wasn't changing :-) I moved the dialog box to my other monitor and then I could see the actual changes. After some of the posts on this, I thought it may not be that useful, but once I started tweaking it looked pretty good. I don't know if the images by each of the NR pgrms on michael's site are 'after photos', but if they are Neat image and Noise Ninja doesn't look as good as what I got here, imo, but I made no attempt to actually download them and compare.
By the way, do you know what the benefit would be to run it in the
individual channels? And would doing so be in addition to or
instead of the settings in the basic tab?
I did this rather quick, but I did try the separate channels but without first checking to see what the channels looked like. I targetted the blue channel and didn't see a difference so I decided to just leave them at 0 and show what I got with the other settings. Still more tweaking to do there.
(I have the same concern about smart sharpen and the settings in
highlights and shadows and the basic tab).
On that, if you saw my post on that, I set the amount to @150 and the radius to 10 (for experimenting) and then checked the highlights and shadows sliders taking the top slider all the way to the right and then tweaking the middle slider. This way you can see what it is doing - ie. similar to setting up two layers one set at lighten, one set at darken and adjusting the opacity or creating a mask to get the same type effect.

Without the exaggeration in radius, it is harder to see, but at least that is what is happening. I know, out of habit, I almost always 'fade in luminosity at 100%' when using strictly usm (not much anymore) but there are only a few images where you can really see the effect of that, unless you zoom in quite a bit.

--
Kent

http://www.pbase.com/kentc
For prior discussions on most questions:
http://porg.4t.com/KentC.html
or d/l 'archives' at:
http://www.atncentral.com
 
Noise reduction on separate channels can be useful if you have noise concentrated on one particular channel (my 20D under tungsten light at high ISOs often has a totally shot red channel for example). So far I prefer to use the ACR noise reduction at lower ISOs, if necessary and the more agressive Noise Ninja for high ISOs, than the new noise reduction filter - the latter's strength seems to be chroma noise rather than luminance noise reduction and I have used it on some P&S files with a deal of succes a couple of times - the chroma noise on my 20D files after ACR processing is pretty much zero anyway.

Other features (my own personal view of the things I've tried): Smart sharpen is worth playing with, especially using motion blur for pictures suffering from camera shake - but for many images, if you know what you are doing in USM the latter seems to give a an equally good result with less messsing about to get the right settings. The lens correction filter puts a few third party offering out of business - if you don't already have one it saves $50 or so there - works really well.(I'm on MacOSX so there isn't a free version that I'm aware of out there) And I like the way on these new filters that you can save presets in a drop down menu, without having to go hunting to find where you saved them.

Raw handling is improved - and for some cameras there may be less obvious under the hood improvements (eg the 20D processing has improved a little in regard to pattern noise at high ISOs).

Spot healing brush is pretty cool, as is the red eye removal (about time too!)

If you are into compositin gat all, smart objects and the new ability to warp stuff makes it sooooo much easier (look at the example on the NAPP video of wrapping a label round a can.) Useful and fun too. I haven't played with the perspective tool yet - not something I'd use on a regular basis but I can see where it would make tasks that are otherwise complicated much harder.

I like Bridge. I really like the way I can automate standard conversions and batch resizings without having to write an action to do so. I've still got to work out the full workflow implications, but in principle I think it gives a lot more workflow options than file browser did.

I have no idea what the shape blur filter is intended for - but the "right' choice of starting shape can produce some interesting effects..

Best thing is that it runs no slower (and if anything slightly faster) than CS did. And I'm using a 600Mhz G3 imac with less than 1Gb of RAM... if that can run it enyhting will!

--
Some of the least worse of my photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/susans/
 
(I have the same concern about smart sharpen and the settings in
highlights and shadows and the basic tab).
On that, if you saw my post on that, I set the amount to @150 and
the radius to 10 (for experimenting) and then checked the
highlights and shadows sliders taking the top slider all the way to
the right and then tweaking the middle slider.
Actually, I didn't see that post, but I'm glad you're explaining it here again.

I'll have to try it and see. I can't see what is happening when I set reasonable amounts, so maybe I'll try setting these high settings to see if I get a feel for what is happening and work my way backwards.

I find that not having a threshold setting is a serious disadvantage--especially in portraits. (Even on the cd that came with the program, the skin was blown clear out of the water in order to get sharpening in the eyes). And even in the eyes, I didn't notice that much difference, although Deke was certainly enthused.

This way you can see
what it is doing - ie. similar to setting up two layers one set at
lighten, one set at darken and adjusting the opacity or creating a
mask to get the same type effect.
I wondered if this is what they were going for. I have an action written for this type of sharpening using USM (with threshold)
Without the exaggeration in radius, it is harder to see, but at
least that is what is happening. I know, out of habit, I almost
always 'fade in luminosity at 100%' when using strictly usm (not
much anymore) but there are only a few images where you can really
see the effect of that, unless you zoom in quite a bit.
I'm beginning to think of this "smart blur" feature as a new editing step in the work flow instead of as an equivalent, alternate, or substitute for USM. (Even in the cd, after blowing out the poor woman's face, he says now we'll blur..... &.....). I'm thinking that we still will have to use USM at the end of editing, at least if we want to print.

Are you getting the same impression?

--
Kate
 
--BOB, thanks for the movie tuts. I will be getting CS2 now that I see the new RAW dialog box with a curves-histogram tool!
Bill Richardson
Barrington, IL (USA)
 
the one about the three new blurs. I found it extremely reassuring that the experts are just as confused about them as I am.

Seriously, I can't figure them out. The video says that box blur is "boxy" (big help) and "faster" than gaussian blur (which I've never thought of as slow). End of explanation.

Shape blur will be pretty useless until someone comes up with specific shape sets with practical applications (like cirlces or ovals with different softnesses at the edges). At least we know that it is a blur you apply locally in the shape of a ????? w/o making a selection--should you ever need to.

He doesn't explain and I don't know how surface blur is different from any other blur we've had before. The demonstration doesn't tell you much other than you blur (like you've always done) and then remove parts of the blur with a mask (like you've always done).

The other videos in the series that I've seen so far really do explain or at least introduce us to the new features. But I guess you need a tool with some substance in order to make a video about it with some substance.
--
Kate
 

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