****Challenge 91 New Thread****

" ... not every
photograph in this book (wonderful, btw, i've owned it for some
time) is a strict "decisive moment"
This, for me, is the missing piece of the puzzle. I simply assumed that all of the images in that book were examples of that concept.

I have been going nuts trying to see the required elements in some of Cartier Bresson's images in "The Decisive Moment", without success. I was beginning to seriously doubt my grasp of the concept. I think I'm back on track again now.

Thanks much, guy.

--
-Jerry
Sony V1 - Still learning...
http://www.pbase.com/icicle50/root
 
Colin, I've not read all the posts is this thread so it may have
been said before, but generally with the STF challenges, if you add
an asterix ( ) to the end of the title this signifies that you're
open for feedback & critisism.
Thanks for the tip, Adrian. I've just added the asterisks.
 
" ... not every
photograph in this book (wonderful, btw, i've owned it for some
time) is a strict "decisive moment"
This, for me, is the missing piece of the puzzle. I simply assumed
that all of the images in that book were examples of that concept.

I have been going nuts trying to see the required elements in some
of Cartier Bresson's images in "The Decisive Moment", without
success. I was beginning to seriously doubt my grasp of the
concept. I think I'm back on track again now.

Thanks much, guy.
jerry - you are very welcome. i'm glad everything is clearer now :)

andy
 
I think that the whole idea of having a topic for a challenge, even
a friendly one, is to submit photographs that go somehow with the
challenge topic and guidelines. This was the whole fun of it.
That is the point of all of our challenges-- some people get it, some don't get it, and some take it beyond the bounds. The last group of people are usually the ones to win these challenges, because they are thinking outside the box.
It is also true that being a friendly challenge, people put
sometimes all kinds of photos just for the fun of it and the voters
decided.
Yes, the voters decide.
It also goes without saying, unless there are new rules now, that
it is up to the host to express his/hers opinion about a photo by
leaving a message in the galleries. Actually, if it hasn't yat been
changed, everyone is free to do it.
Yes, the host is certainly allowed to express an opinion. My objection was the implied demand to remove the photo because it wasn't in line with the subject.
In this perticular case, Penelope left a note on Danny's photo, in
a very friendly and polite way, telling that the photo is beautiful
and asked him to refer to the challenge thread. I don't think there
was anything offending in it.
Not much to say other than what I just said above.
I think that no one asked Danny to take out his photo and he didn't
have to do it, it was his own decision and he probably had his own
reasons to do it.
Yes, it was his decision in the end, but I do feel he was complying with our host's wishes. Danny is a really nice man and wouldn't want to offend anyone.
BTW, I also submitted photos in at the beginning but I replaced
three of them after reading and understanding the topic.
Lots of people replace their images if they find others closer to their interpretation of the subject.
One thing is sure here, this topic has made more waves than most.
Maybe because it is a bit more sophosticated and requires a bit of
study and a different artistic approach for which I have the
feeling, not everyone is willing to invest.
Moti, again, all of our challenges have had the potential for sophistication. One only has to recognize it.

Nancy

--
-------
What happens if you get scared half to death twice?
 
Your photo was incredible and to my way of thinking, it most certainly fit the theme. In fact, it's images like yours-- the ones with a vision rather than simply trying to replicate another person's work that inspire me profoundly. Thank you for that. I can only be happy that I got to see it at all.

I'm sad you pulled the images, but do understand. I can only hope that you'll do us the favor of popping back in again.

Best regards,

Nancy

=========
I couldn't really figure out why a bullet going through an egg is
not considered a "decisive moment" so in that case I have no idea
at all Nancy :-)). Maybe this one is more of the arty farty stuff,
so I'll wait and see what other B/W people see. :-)) Maybe I should
be French, LOL.

All the best Nancy as always. Not a problem really :-))

Danny.

--
...........................

http://www.macrophotos.com

http://www.photomacrography.net
...........................
Worry about the image that comes out of the box, rather than the
box itself.
 
With the Terrible Twos, if the parents had been running toward the
fallen child, it would have been a much stronger image. The way
they are, the tension doesn't seem to be there.
It's there, and it's there even more strongly than if the parents had been running toward the kid. I'm interpreting it that the kid is throwing a tantrum and the parents are doing well to ignore rather than play to the tactics. As a parent myself, I can totally relate --now that my kids have grown and flown, this kind of image cracks me up.

Nancy
 
With the Terrible Twos, if the parents had been running toward the
fallen child, it would have been a much stronger image. The way
they are, the tension doesn't seem to be there.
It's there, and it's there even more strongly than if the parents
had been running toward the kid. I'm interpreting it that the kid
is throwing a tantrum and the parents are doing well to ignore
rather than play to the tactics. As a parent myself, I can totally
relate --now that my kids have grown and flown, this kind of image
cracks me up.
Nancy, you hit the nail right on the head. When I first spotted the kid lying on the sidewalk and crying, and his parents just walking past him, I thought that he had hurt himself and they were being callous. But after a few seconds of observation, I realized that he was just throwing a tantrum and they were doing their best to show discipline and not give in to his demands. They kept walking, trying to show that they weren't going to be held up by his antics, and then stopped at just the right distance to be able to keep an eye on him but show that he wasn't changing their itinerary with his whining. The folded arms show that they've settled in for a standoff. I didn't stick around to see who won the contest of wills, but I'd place my bet on the parents. I agree with you that the parents were doing well with this "tough love."

-Colin
 
Gotta love the parents who hang in there. It's got to be the hardest thing in the world to do.

Nancy
 
The difference for a macro shooter, a "Decisive moment" comes down to a drop splashing on a pond, a spider snatching a fly, a bee or a fly in flight, a frog or insects having sex, etc, etc.. Split second timing, once in a lifetime shot, all taken at that particular "Decisive moment" in time that can't be repeated.

Every shot we take or has been taken is a decisive moment. None will ever be taken exactly again. Its part of history, its a fragment of time. Two people chatting on a corner in B/W is hard for a macro shooter to come to terms with as a decisive moment to be honest :-)).

I can see from a couple of threads where that particular term is causing problems. Maybe it could have been called something else. Every shot and click we take fits this theme if those terms are used...........IMHO :-))

Anyway, no problem and its just about how different we think and are.

All the best and never a problem :-))

Danny.
--
...........................

http://www.macrophotos.com

http://www.photomacrography.net
...........................
Worry about the image that comes out of the box, rather than the box itself.
 
As this thread has become a bit disjointed with all the discussion in between, I thought I would first provide links to the important parts of it

Introduction - read this before you post
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=13236614

Synergy - the spark
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=13236781

What the "decisive moment" is NOT
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=13236878

The Static element - setting the scene
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=13248301

The Dynamic element - tips
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=13255608

To Sum up

There are 3 main elements in Cartier Bresson's work that make his photographic genius, which he calls "capturing the decisive moment". A combination of

The background scene - the static element

The subject - Someone or something caught in the fraction of a second that appears to be spontaneous (the dynamic element)

A strong "spark" that relates the subject (dynamic element) to the background (the static element) - The synergy - Examples of this are as follows

Body language
A poster or picture in the background
A contrast between the subject and the background
A similarity between the subject and the background
Graphical composition, light dark, shading

For examples please refer to the above threads.
All the examples were taken from Magnum photos excellent site at

http://www.magnumphotos.com/ ... ...Stat=Photographers_Portfolio&E=29YL53IQ1W7

I know that this is a little different from the usual challenge but I think it's a lot of fun and I'm really enjoying your entries

Please feel free to continue to ask questions, i'll try my best to answer
--
.....Penelope

http://www.pennypics.com
 
to kick this back up...

gk
 
...it is gratifying to hear that someone else thinks these are departures (or exceptions) from the style. By the way, I love these portraits and think them superb but I just didn't see how some of them fit into the "decisive moment" definition. I can see the touch of the decisive moment in the Matisse portrait with the Picasso vase in the foreground, but I didn't see it in the Truman Capote portrait (after I got over the shock of Truman Capote being a handsome young man!). Sometimes I think an artist makes the most striking statements when he/she has established a style and then departs from it for individual pieces.

Jerry, don't apologize for taking the topic too seriously. Your dialogue in this thread has been instrumental in clarifying many of the fine points for me. I dunno that I'll be able to come up with a suitable entry for the exhibition gallery, but I do know that I'm richer for just having carefully read the conversation here.

Cheers,

Michael
--

Galleries:
http://www.pbase.com/mtpuff
 
I'm delighted that I was able to both learn for myself and also contribute to others' understanding of this concept simultaneously. One thing that has served me well in my life is not being afraid to exhibit my ignorance if I don't understand something. There's no shame in that. This may be an old cliche, but I feel the only stupid question is the one not asked.

Kudos to Penelope through all this, too. She has been a tremendous source of information and has given much of her time and energy in helping us grasp this rather elusive concept.

Cheers,
--
-Jerry
Sony V1 - Still learning...
http://www.pbase.com/icicle50/root
 
Hi Penelope,

I withdrew my one exhibition entry if you were wondering or if anybody noticed. It's just that I won't be in town for the rest of the challenge and don't want to just dump something and run away. I'd like to participate more but other things are taking precedence. I'm glad to see you took control and kept this challenge on track when it looked like it was going to be derailed early on. Good luck with the rest of the challenge!

kt
 
Hi there

Just been looking through old photos for some "decisive moments" pictures. Here are some that seem to fit the bill:

http://www.paulrussell.info/gallerystreet/22.html
http://www.paulrussell.info/gallerysea/39.html
http://www.paulrussell.info/gallerysea/44.html
http://www.paulrussell.info/gallerylimbs/5.html
http://www.paulrussell.info/gallerybw/9.html
http://www.paulrussell.info/march05/march05fs/S1298.html

Only the last of these was taken with a Sony camera (I currently use the Sony V3 and the Nikon D70).

If I manage anything within the timeframe of the competition and with the Sony, I'll enter it!

Regards
Paul Russell
http://www.paulrussell.info
 
I am so sorry for dredging up the old version of the challenge post! I had linked over to it from this thread to get the link to the galleries, and when I was finished I replied...and forgot I was in that thread!!

So major apologies to all for that one. Anyway, what I was TRYING to add to this thread was:

I entered the Exhibition with three that I think meet the criteria. I am more than happy to receive any comment or criticism, including if they do not really meet the standards of the challenge.

This weekend will probably be the first chance I'll get to try out the Eligible challenge...I'll have my camera ready and see what I can come up with.

Very good challenge idea...very challenging and that's what it should be!

--
Justin
 

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