****Challenge 91 New Thread****

Tout d´abord, mes félicitations!
Je me permets d´écrire en français, trop mauvaise en anglais!

Mon fils aimerait participer au challenge, mais il n´a pas internet chez lui. Peut-il décharger ses photos sur mon ordinateur, sans qu´apparaisse mon nom?

Merci, et courage pour ce challenge qui s´annonce un peu compliqué (voir le 1er thread).
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Doris

I'm sorry, Penelope, but to include this shot as an example of the "decisive moment" per Cartier Bresson et al, makes it even more difficult for me to grasp the concept - just when I thought I was getting somewhere.

Seems this concept is even more subjective than I thought...
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-Jerry
Sony V1 - Still learning...
http://www.pbase.com/icicle50/root

I get the feeling there are lots more than me here that are uncertain about what is and isn't a "decisive moment". I think the best way to zero in on that elusive formula is by examples. With that in mind, would you please comment on why the following 3 examples do or do not qualify. What, if anything, would have made them fit the criteria?







Thanks for your patience, Penelope.
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-Jerry
Sony V1 - Still learning...
http://www.pbase.com/icicle50/root

No it wasnt your photo I was referring to when I said that. Actually it was in response to someone, I think it might have been Moti who said that if it was just about capturing the moment then holiday snaps would qualify, as would dripping taps etc etc

I think your photo is beautiful
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.....Penelope

http://www.pennypics.com

No 1
The scene is set- some sort of disco this is the static element
The guy is great - he's the dynamic element

Whats missing is the spark between the 2 that transforms the image

Lets say for example there was a singer in the background holding a microphone with the same gesture, or a spotlight that throws him into stark relief, this would transform the image

No2
The scene - a zoo?
The girl (feeding the animal ?) - OK

Again the spark is missing

If there were a sign saying "no feeding" or someone passing reacting to the scene, that would transform it from an intimate moment to a decisive one

No 3
I'm not sure exactly what to tell you about this one, it looks a bit static.

Does this help?

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.....Penelope

http://www.pennypics.com

Hi Doris

Thats great that your son wants to contribute. He can post without any problem he just has to put his name on the caption of the photo
If you have any problems just e-mail me and I'll correct them
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.....Penelope

http://www.pennypics.com

If the woman was wearing a lama jacket, there would then be a connection between subjects. The dynamics would be between the two, but there would not be any moving action. Not sure where to go from here. I'm just as purplexed as everyone else. It's a great challenge idea though. Really makes one think, and prepare.

Chris
--
A picture is but words to the eyes.
Comments are always welcome.

http://www.pbase.com/higgmeister/

Higgmeister said:

If the woman was wearing a lama jacket, there would then be a
connection between subjects. The dynamics would be between the
two, but there would not be any moving action. Not sure where to
go from here. I'm just as purplexed as everyone else. It's a
great challenge idea though. Really makes one think, and prepare.

Chris

Click to expand...

Or... maybe if they were facing the same way with similar stances and similar facial expressions??



--
-Jerry
Sony V1 - Still learning...
http://www.pbase.com/icicle50/root

as a matter of fact, when I posted the one of the guy "air mikeing", I could envision him mimicking the performer on stage and thought that might be the missing link.

Still, I have a hard time ferreting out the connection in some of the examples...

For instance, in "The Transaction": What's the connection with the background? Or does there have to be one? Just the similar facial expressions and mirrored stances of the two participants in the transaction is all that's necessary?

In "Student": I see another person sitting on a rail behind him in a similar stance, and I see most other people in the scene in motion. Would one or the other do it? Or is it that both are happening in the same scene?

In "Spectator": It's presumed that the kid os trying to mimick the trumpet player?

The Man In The Mirror... well.. that's pretty clear

I can't figure out "At the Market" at all, except we have one static person and one in motion... but what's the connection or dynamic between the two?

And... coming back to Moti's "Take Five", I understand that there's a "connection" between the guy's red shirt and the background, but I still don't see where it has the "dynamic" to fit the criteria. Belive me, I love and admire Moti's work, and I'm not picking on him in any way... just that this one makes it a little more difficult for me to crystalize the concept of the "decisive moment".

Sorry to take so much of your time, but you started this wink , and there are others here just as uncertain as I am. I feel I am making progress, though, and I'm sure this discussion will help others understand the concept better, too.

Thanks again...
--
-Jerry
Sony V1 - Still learning...
http://www.pbase.com/icicle50/root

Hi Jerry

I't s pretty late here 1.00am and I'd like to reply properly tomorrow, just let me say that I wanted to put captions on the examples galleries and hadnt quite got around to it

Like all of us I'm pretty new to this so my examples are not so good as they might be

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.....Penelope

http://www.pennypics.com

I do think that there is a gritty quality that is missing from my photo..............but, I think I know what this takes.

It's definitely hit and miss. You could spend hours in one spot and not get that shot your after. Other times it just happens in a split second and your ready for it.

synergy of the whole. I think I get it.

thanks for the response,
Ian
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http://www.ianz28.smugmug.com
Positive or Negative - Critique's are always welcome and appreciated.

this challenge - i might have some pics from today

.....Penelope

http://www.pennypics.com

The pictures don't have to be high contrast black and white, pastels can be very lovely, and you can use words or body language to reinforce the picture instead of contrast. It's really the philosophy rather than technique that this challenge is all about. You could go out, find a place, perhaps with a sign on a shop or the wall and wait for something to present itself.

Hope this helps
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.....Penelope

P.S. Im dead jealous, I'd love to visit Florida

Penelope said:

Penelope said:

static - the scene
dynamic - usually people
synergy - usually something in the static which reinforces the dynamic
(or vice versa)

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Setting the scene - where to begin shooting

It might help to start by deciding on a location and waiting for the moment to happen. This hint came from Andy who has a lot of experience taking these kinds of shots

Penelope said:

it's a lot like fishing sometimes. good fishermen know "where they're biting." sometimes, i'll stop and find a spot to "fish" from... that is, i'll wait somewhere, perhaps where there's a nice bg, some good elements for the photo i'm imagining, and i'm just waiting for the right moment to occur (taxi, kid, dog, bird, shopping lady, etc etc

Click to expand...

Some Cartier Bresson Examples - Look at this one
He set his camera up on the staircase and waited for the bicycle to pass



and this one - here the sign says it all



--
.....Penelope

http://www.pennypics.com

OK Jerry
I wanted to take the time to reply to you properly.

I think you are absolutely right about "the transaction" and I have removed it as an example, I don't think on reflection that it is a decisive moment, thanks for pointing this out. The others now have captions, if you go into the examples gallery you will see that I have tried to analyse a little bit to get the point across.

I do think that Moti's red man counts as a decisive moment as for me it has all the elements required, however there may be others who can't see it. All I can do is to try to point out what to look for. The acid test , as always , will be the voting

I don't think that anybody here would pretend to be a great photographer, we all have pics that are more successful than others. I think that in this challenge we have the opportunity to learn from a master, so I'm trying to help get his ideas across and encourage people in their efforts.

.....Penelope

http://www.pennypics.com

penelope, those are a couple of my favorite examples, good onya for pointing those out.

here's a sony f828 shot where i just "fished" fyi iirc, it took about 20mins or so for the right person to come by ...



cheers

andy

Penelope said:

OK Jerry
I wanted to take the time to reply to you properly.
I think you are absolutely right about "the transaction" and I have
removed it as an example, I don't think on reflection that it is a
decisive moment, thanks for pointing this out. The others now have
captions, if you go into the examples gallery you will see that I
have tried to analyse a little bit to get the point across.

Click to expand...

Everything like this helps...

Penelope said:

I do think that Moti's red man counts as a decisive moment as for
me it has all the elements required, however there may be others
who can't see it. All I can do is to try to point out what to look
for. The acid test , as always , will be the voting

Click to expand...

...presuming the voters understand the concept, of course. I have seen it happen in the challenges before that people vote for the most attractive pic... without much regard for whether it fits the criteria.

Penelope said:

I don't think that anybody here would pretend to be a great
photographer, we all have pics that are more successful than
others. I think that in this challenge we have the opportunity to
learn from a master, so I'm trying to help get his ideas across and
encourage people in their efforts.

Click to expand...

You're right... and I think we are learning. Where I am right now is that I can clearly see how some images represent the "decisive moment" and I can clearly see how some don't. But there's a whole middle ground that's still grey and fuzzy for me. You see, I'm more of a scientific type than an artist type, so maybe I'm looking for a "formula" more than an impression or feeling.

Thanks again for your help and patience.
--
-Jerry
Sony V1 - Still learning...
http://www.pbase.com/icicle50/root

Absolutely fantastic example. If this isn't a "decisive moment", nothing is!
--
-Jerry
Sony V1 - Still learning...
http://www.pbase.com/icicle50/root

I remember this one too. It is a brilliant photo and represent the whole idea.

Took me some time to digest the philosophy of the decisive moment and when I finlly got it, I looked again at my postings and replaced two of them.
Cheers
Moti

Andy Williams said:

penelope, those are a couple of my favorite examples, good onya for
pointing those out.

here's a sony f828 shot where i just "fished" fyi iirc, it
took about 20mins or so for the right person to come by ...



cheers

andy

Click to expand...

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http://motion.smugmug.com