Ist * DS vs Canon 20D

I have both :) They are both great cameras; the 20D is very fast, big and solid. I have a bunch of lenses for it, but no expensive Canon L glass; I use mostly the 17-35 and 28-75 Tamrons, with excellent results.

The DS is just a beautiful camera. I have used Pentax for years and love the results I get from their lenses. Small and light, nice to hold (unlike some of the competition) and a joy to use.

All you can do is try out both and see which feels better for you.

--
http://www.mikeblackburn.com
 
Hi,

It sounds like you've been saving for a while and your budget is a concern. I don't know what kind of camera you used before, but I'm assuming it isn't a Canon given you're buying new glass to cover such a large focal range.

Canon obviously has better image quality + automation, but the Pentax in my mind handles better (its lighter and accepts much better made and lighter lenses -- read: Pentax-M / Pentax limited series).

I guess I'm highlighting this: Those two Sigmas are okay, but you don't get to take advantage of Canon's fantastic automation with full time manual focus / USM lenses (which is fantastic). Similarly, in Pentax land, those lenses aren't really going to augment the handling compared to Pentax's primes (and second hand gear).

If you can, try using a canon full time USM lens (and a L series lens), or a Pentax limited or Pentax-M lens -- so you get an idea where you investment is likely to end up. Even if you end up buying the Sigma, at least you'll be getting the whole picture, if you get what I mean.

Pak
 
Weird, one day this lens is praised into heaven on this site, then another day people sound doubfull..
This is not only with the sigma 18-125.
Or is it just the 18-125 in combination with the c.n.n???
 
It's not bad for it's price range, but it's not Canon L glass quality or Pentax prime level either. And since this user sounded like he only wanted the best, the Sigma would not qualify as the best.
Weird, one day this lens is praised into heaven on this site, then
another day people sound doubfull..
This is not only with the sigma 18-125.
Or is it just the 18-125 in combination with the c.n.n???
--
Thanks,
Hugnut

 
okay thanx,

just ordered one as a walkabout :) . Just to get the pictures you'd miss changing primes. You know, when you go out to see if there is anything worth shooting without knowing what will turn up...
 
If price is the issue why arent you considering Rebel XT ? As per review on this website Rebel XT produces exact same images except 3fps compared to 5fps on 20D. From size point of view it is similar to what you will get with Pentax. Its like getting Pentax with speed of 20D and paying lot less. The difference in price could easily buy you a very good lens from canon itself.
 
LOL that is good one same as using Windows for space applications ....
If you put a DSLR in a housing for underwater photography, you
definitely can't take the batteries off and reboot it like some
Canon users are used to.
--
V.
 
If I was going to spend the money to get a high end DSLR like the
20D, I would put premium lenses on it, your pictures are only as
good as the weakest link. I started off using Sigma lenses when I
first bought my D last year, after seeing the light I have upgraded
to mostly Pentax primes and high quality zoom.
Sigma make premium lenses too, but like any brand they make cheap consumer lenses, unfortunate problem with Canon is the kit lens that is often bundled with the 20D is a piece of junk, worse than the 18-125 which is also a consumer lens.

------------
Joel - *ist DS/P30n/ME
http://www.pbase.com/joele
 
Good point
Snippysanapper, I think you have your answer now !

The Canon advantage is the wide selection of digital lenses they offer compared to Pentax.
 
If price is the issue why arent you considering Rebel XT ? As per
review on this website Rebel XT produces exact same images except
3fps compared to 5fps on 20D. From size point of view it is similar
to what you will get with Pentax. Its like getting Pentax with
speed of 20D and paying lot less. The difference in price could
easily buy you a very good lens from canon itself.
Although I don't think you are far off, there is more of a difference between the two than just 3fps vs. 5fps. They don't even use the same sensor, nor the same processor, so to say they produce the exact same images is probably not very accurate at all.

Quite frankly, I don't agree with you at all when you say it is like getting the DS with the speed of the 20D. They are vastly different cameras, with different metering systems, sensors, etc. Someone might prefere the images from one or the other, but to say the Pentax is the same as the Canon is to suggest that you have never looked closely at the final results between the two.
--



http://www.trekearth.com/members/Darren/photos/
http://www.darrenmelrose.com

Have camera, will travel
 
Think I'm sorted.

If by rebel XT you mean the 350D, I cant use that as it's jut too small for my paws. The DS is just about big enough, but the 20D is a super fit.

I'm going 20D, Canon 18 - 50 IS usm and then sigma 80 - 400 os

I think that'll satisfy me. Thanks for all inputs, really appeictaed.

David
 
I switched for professional reasons to 20D's last year from the ist D. After thousands of pro wedding shots, and three bodies I have not had any trouble at all. There were a few reported glitches in the begining when they were first released, but a lot of that was people not really understanding the level of sophistication of the machine they bought.

The ist DS is a great camera, and the 20D is as well. It really comes down to what you want to use it for. If you need more pro spec stuff, I'm afraid Pentax aint where you want to be. Canon is heads and tails ahead of anyone else, pro wise. (The 16-35L, 24-70L and 70-200L IS are AMAZING.)

If on the other hand you want maximum image quality with the least fuss, go with Pentax.

--
Ed
http://www.edwardtmartins.com
 
... [Canon] The lack of
spot metering is something that I find not just dissappointing, but
almost assinine in a camera at the level/price of the 20D. ...
As I have said in this forum before, Canon's 10D/20D "Limited Area" meter pattern (a sensitivity area approximately 7-8mm in diameter) is virtually identical to the Pentax *ist D/DS "Spot" meter pattern (a sensitivity area approximately 6-7mm in diameter). There is no practical difference between them in use. Canon simply chose the wrong nomenclature to satisfy people who somehow believe that "Spot" in a DSLR metering pattern is something different and more valuable than a "Limited Area". Makes no sense to me.

I can't explain your experience with the Canon 10D 'blowing out highlights'. I have owned and used a Canon 10D since September 2003 and have had no such experience. I didn't upgrade to a 20D because, on comparison, I didn't see enough difference in the image quality and I wanted something smaller, lighter.

The Pentax DS won my dollars due to its size and weight, and I've come to enjoy the quality of Pentax lenses. I can't say that it produces significantly different image quality with comparable lenses, particularly if one works with RAW format images.

Godfrey
 
... [Canon] The lack of
spot metering is something that I find not just dissappointing, but
almost assinine in a camera at the level/price of the 20D. ...
As I have said in this forum before, Canon's 10D/20D "Limited Area"
meter pattern (a sensitivity area approximately 7-8mm in diameter)
is virtually identical to the Pentax *ist D/DS "Spot" meter pattern
(a sensitivity area approximately 6-7mm in diameter). There is no
practical difference between them in use. Canon simply chose the
wrong nomenclature to satisfy people who somehow believe that
"Spot" in a DSLR metering pattern is something different and more
valuable than a "Limited Area". Makes no sense to me.
The Canon's meters 9% of the scene, the Pentax meters 2.5%. These have been tested by a couple different reviewers and published on more than one spot on the net. In many cases, the difference between 9% and 2.5% might not be important, but in others it most certainly is. I have been in cases where it is the latter, shooting with 10D shooters. These shooters BTW were one advanced amateur, one part time pro and one full time working professional. All of them know their way around a camera.
I can't explain your experience with the Canon 10D 'blowing out
highlights'. I have owned and used a Canon 10D since September 2003
and have had no such experience. I didn't upgrade to a 20D because,
on comparison, I didn't see enough difference in the image quality
and I wanted something smaller, lighter.
It is not just my experience, but the experience of many. Ask Dave Lewis from this forum for one. I have spent a couple days shooting with 10

Ds in the past, there was a while when I was considering the switch. Both were very noticable in their propensity to blow out highlights. Similarly when I have been out shooting with a good friend who has a 300D. Some casual shooting by myself with the 300D also adds to this conclusion. Finally, it was my trip to Myanmar in November (shooting with the three people above) which really cemented my opinion. They were having to dial in up to two full stops of negative exposure compensation to keep highlights in control, where I was getting bang on exposures shooting either with no compensation, or 1/3 of a stop of negative compensation. The fifth person in our group was a former 10D shooter who now uses a 1Dmk2. He told me he has had all the same issues as what I am describing here. Actually, he says the metering alone is the biggest improvement of the pro Canon (he is a part time pro as well) vs. the consumer models.

My opinion isn't formed by a single bad experience with a Canon, but multiiple bad experiences, in multiple situations. It is further reinforced by seeing other users first hand who are going through similar difficulties. The consistency of the issues is what puts me off.
The Pentax DS won my dollars due to its size and weight, and I've
come to enjoy the quality of Pentax lenses. I can't say that it
produces significantly different image quality with comparable
lenses, particularly if one works with RAW format images.
The irony is that the size and weight of the Pentax are not really huge draws for me. I don't mind carrying a bigger camera at all. The Canon 1 series feel very comfortable in my hands, and they are many times as large. I can certainly see how many people like small, I just am not amongst that number.

I do see a different character between a Canon image and a Pentax image. Personally, I am guessing it is primarily due to CMOS vs. CCD

as the capture device. Although they are different, I have not said one is superior to the other. Photographers have been shooting different film stocks forever, this is just a similar issue I think, although one with less inherant differences within it.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
--



http://www.trekearth.com/members/Darren/photos/
http://www.darrenmelrose.com

Have camera, will travel
 
The Canon's meters 9% of the scene, the Pentax meters 2.5%. These
have been tested by a couple different reviewers and published on
more than one spot on the net.
Sorry ... I measured the sensitive areas myself and they are as I described: 6-7mm Spot circle on the Pentax DS, 7-8mm "limited area" circle on the Canon 10D. That's approximately 7.3% on the Pentax and 11.6% area on the Canon.

My experience with the 10D differs from yours. I worked with the camera for about a year and a half before I bought the Pentax.

Enjoy your weekend.

Godfrey
 

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