d2x users

ron gallegos · Mar 26, 2005

this is directed at those who have had their cameras now for awhile and can give some practical answers. when shooting nefs with the d2x, just how long is the processing aspect. i plan on using both capture and picasa to work with those files. i assume picasa will open them where i can do some quick look-sees and touch ups while capture will give me the final shot.

but it sounds liike the more i read, the more fearful i become of very long processing times. my computer system is fairly new but certainly not a super power. it's done fine with nefs from the d2h.

can someone throw some practical experience and enlightenment on the subject. i'm not looking for the technical, just what your experience has been as a shooter, not as a techie. thanks, ron.

Al B · Mar 26, 2005

Ron Gallegos said:
this is directed at those who have had their cameras now for awhile
and can give some practical answers. when shooting nefs with the
d2x, just how long is the processing aspect. i plan on using both
capture and picasa to work with those files. i assume picasa will
open them where i can do some quick look-sees and touch ups while
capture will give me the final shot.

but it sounds liike the more i read, the more fearful i become of
very long processing times. my computer system is fairly new but
certainly not a super power. it's done fine with nefs from the d2h.

can someone throw some practical experience and enlightenment on
the subject. i'm not looking for the technical, just what your
experience has been as a shooter, not as a techie. thanks, ron.

Ron,

I am certaiinly no expert when it come to computers however I thought I would offer my expereince. I have a 2.53 Ghz Gateway computer. Initially I had 500 MB of RAM which did a good job on my D100/D70. I shoot primarily in RAW. Even after upgrading my RAM to 1 Gig I still find the processing speed to be quite slow in NC 4.2.1. latest version. I am going to be upgrading the RAM to 2 Gig ASAP. Having said the above the D2X is definitely worth the extra time.

Al B

--
Al B

P Base Supporter
http://www.pbase.com/al_b/

'What we see depends mainly on what we look for.'
--Sir John Lubbock

Jono Slack · Mar 26, 2005

HI Ron
I'll probably get blasted for this post, but, what the hell!

I've tried all the available raw converters for the mac (and a couple of 'unavailable' ones).

I've settled on Bibble as the best of the current bunch, and bought it.

Many users have really good reason to use RAW - they may have critical shots which might need exposure or white balance correction, or wish to do sandwich processing to increase the dynamic range - if I have any of these issues I'll shoot RAW and use Bibble.

BUT

Usually I have time to set things up, and time to check I have it right after the shot - in this case I shoot jpg - it will take a surprising amount of post processing, I've compared converted RAW shots to jpg shots, and sometimes they're better . . . and sometimes they're worse. The experience of batch converting 100 or so RAW files just in case they're better doesn't turn me on that much.

So, my advice is to shoot jpg AND nef, and stash the nef files away in case you actually need them.

Kind regards
jono slack

Ron Gallegos said:
this is directed at those who have had their cameras now for awhile
and can give some practical answers. when shooting nefs with the
d2x, just how long is the processing aspect. i plan on using both
capture and picasa to work with those files. i assume picasa will
open them where i can do some quick look-sees and touch ups while
capture will give me the final shot.

but it sounds liike the more i read, the more fearful i become of
very long processing times. my computer system is fairly new but
certainly not a super power. it's done fine with nefs from the d2h.

can someone throw some practical experience and enlightenment on
the subject. i'm not looking for the technical, just what your
experience has been as a shooter, not as a techie. thanks, ron.

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

Greg Gebhardt · Mar 26, 2005

Ron Gallegos said:
this is directed at those who have had their cameras now for awhile
and can give some practical answers. when shooting nefs with the
d2x, just how long is the processing aspect. i plan on using both
capture and picasa to work with those files. i assume picasa will
open them where i can do some quick look-sees and touch ups while
capture will give me the final shot.

but it sounds liike the more i read, the more fearful i become of
very long processing times. my computer system is fairly new but
certainly not a super power. it's done fine with nefs from the d2h.

can someone throw some practical experience and enlightenment on
the subject. i'm not looking for the technical, just what your
experience has been as a shooter, not as a techie. thanks, ron.

The D2X NEF files come out of the camera at near 20mb each and if you convert to tif they can more than double. While most computers will plow thru this processing so will do so slowly.

Guess I am lucky as I am using a HP XW8200 with 800mhz FSB, twin 3.6 Xeons and 3 350gb SATA drives. The 4gb of memory is a plus,also.

While my desktop eats these processes my laptop, IBM TP42p (2373 KXU) does so more slowly but does just fine. I mainly use my laptop for downloading files while traveling and do little image processing.

Some will find processing these large images and working with them a slow process.

--
Greg Gebhardt in
Jacksonville, Florida
http://www.pbase.com/greggebhardt
D 2 X
D 1 X
D 2 H
D S C - V 3

ron gallegos · Mar 26, 2005

i haven't been swayed from getting the d2x, there are just too many positives to put it aside. i was just really wary of the processing times. i think jono may have come up with the best solution of all, that is to shoot in both neff and low jpeg. that way i can play with the jpegs without the time consuming process and then if there is really a keeper, i have the neff as well. i suppose though it would be best to burn the files immediately onto a cd as opposed to putting them on the hard drive and burning up space there. i know there are going to be trade offs and i feel like i'm getting into deep water and my swimming skills are just not that good. thanks again, ron.

Jono Slack · Mar 26, 2005

HI Greg

Greg Gebhardt said:
The D2X NEF files come out of the camera at near 20mb each and if
you convert to tif they can more than double.

Tiff:
34.9 mb 8 bit
70 mb 16 bit

as you say - more than double!

Greg Gebhardt said:
While most computers
will plow thru this processing so will do so slowly.

Guess I am lucky as I am using a HP XW8200 with 800mhz FSB, twin
3.6 Xeons and 3 350gb SATA drives. The 4gb of memory is a
plus,also.

While my desktop eats these processes my laptop, IBM TP42p (2373
KXU) does so more slowly but does just fine. I mainly use my laptop
for downloading files while traveling and do little image
processing.

Some will find processing these large images and working with them
a slow process.

At least, on my mac, capture is so slow as to be unuseable (and I've tried, believe me, I've tried).

It's easy to say that these are 'large images', but before the D2x, I've been using a Kodak 14n for a couple of years - theoretically larger files, but process quickly and easily. Both files are fine when you've got them into photoshop.

The Fact that Bibble can process raw images between 6 and 12 times faster than capture says it all.

The problem with Capture is that it's grotesquely slow (at least on a mac). This is NOT a necessary result of the file size, simply poor programming on Nikon's part. You shouldn't need to buy a supercomputer to process the files, and for most of us who shoot on location it's necessary for it to function properly on a laptop . . . . . in my dreams!

kind regards
jono slack

Greg Gebhardt said:
--
Greg Gebhardt in
Jacksonville, Florida
http://www.pbase.com/greggebhardt
D 2 X
D 1 X
D 2 H
D S C - V 3

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

Jono Slack · Mar 26, 2005

Hi There

I shoot NEF and fine quality large jpg (the best there is). I then use the jpg files for processing and printing - IF I find that they need settings changing, then I may go to the NEF file - otherwise it will remain untouched.

Most of my stuff is printed A3 size and above, and for this purpose jpg is usually just fine.

I use firewire external hard drives for backup - quick, reasonably cheap, and they get bigger at about the same rate as my library!

Kind Regards
Jono Slack

Ron Gallegos said:
i haven't been swayed from getting the d2x, there are just too many
positives to put it aside. i was just really wary of the
processing times. i think jono may have come up with the best
solution of all, that is to shoot in both neff and low jpeg. that
way i can play with the jpegs without the time consuming process
and then if there is really a keeper, i have the neff as well. i
suppose though it would be best to burn the files immediately onto
a cd as opposed to putting them on the hard drive and burning up
space there. i know there are going to be trade offs and i feel
like i'm getting into deep water and my swimming skills are just
not that good. thanks again, ron.

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

Michael Worley · Mar 26, 2005

. . . and among my group, several are going for what we're calling "the super duper computer" that one of our group builds.

I think Jono may have pointed out the real problem, although I'm no techie, either. My laptop and desktop get really slow processing D2x files, but those files are much smaller than other files that I routinely retrieve and work on with no problem. I can retrieve and work on 150 - 200 Mb PSD files without any trouble, but getting capture to retrieve a D2x NEF and then to save the processed file kind of taxed my patience.

But I'm keeping the D2x, mind you! I'm just not sure I'll shell out another few thousand for a super duper computer, and then whatever a super duper laptop computer costs. Not to mention the added cost already incurred for 2-gig and 4-gig CF cards.

Glad I didn't take up an expensive hobby, like golf!

Regards,

Mike

Ron Gallegos said:
this is directed at those who have had their cameras now for awhile
and can give some practical answers. when shooting nefs with the
d2x, just how long is the processing aspect. i plan on using both
capture and picasa to work with those files. i assume picasa will
open them where i can do some quick look-sees and touch ups while
capture will give me the final shot.

but it sounds liike the more i read, the more fearful i become of
very long processing times. my computer system is fairly new but
certainly not a super power. it's done fine with nefs from the d2h.

can someone throw some practical experience and enlightenment on
the subject. i'm not looking for the technical, just what your
experience has been as a shooter, not as a techie. thanks, ron.

--
Mike
---

'No matter how many lenses and cameras you take, you've always got the wrong lens on.' Jay Maisel

Michael Worley · Mar 26, 2005

Great idea to go for the NEF when the jpeg shows something really exceptional, and otherwise use the jpeg. Should really speed processing for me. With that system, I'll process about one NEF a week!

Regards,

Mike

Jono Slack said:
Most of my stuff is printed A3 size and above, and for this purpose
jpg is usually just fine.

I use firewire external hard drives for backup - quick, reasonably
cheap, and they get bigger at about the same rate as my library!

Kind Regards
Jono Slack

Ron Gallegos said:

i haven't been swayed from getting the d2x, there are just too many
positives to put it aside. i was just really wary of the
processing times. i think jono may have come up with the best
solution of all, that is to shoot in both neff and low jpeg. that
way i can play with the jpegs without the time consuming process
and then if there is really a keeper, i have the neff as well. i
suppose though it would be best to burn the files immediately onto
a cd as opposed to putting them on the hard drive and burning up
space there. i know there are going to be trade offs and i feel
like i'm getting into deep water and my swimming skills are just
not that good. thanks again, ron.

Click to expand...

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

--
Mike
---

'No matter how many lenses and cameras you take, you've always got the wrong lens on.' Jay Maisel

Rick Martin · Mar 26, 2005

I've tried all the available converters and I'm not happy with any of them.

I've settled with Iridient and it's converter until Adobe brings out its plug-in for Photoshop CS and the D2X

Ron Gallegos said:
this is directed at those who have had their cameras now for awhile
and can give some practical answers. when shooting nefs with the
d2x, just how long is the processing aspect. i plan on using both
capture and picasa to work with those files. i assume picasa will
open them where i can do some quick look-sees and touch ups while
capture will give me the final shot.

but it sounds liike the more i read, the more fearful i become of
very long processing times. my computer system is fairly new but
certainly not a super power. it's done fine with nefs from the d2h.

can someone throw some practical experience and enlightenment on
the subject. i'm not looking for the technical, just what your
experience has been as a shooter, not as a techie. thanks, ron.

Jim Fenton · Mar 26, 2005

I'm running a P$ 3.0 Ghz with 1.0MB PC2700 RAM.

I use NC to process my neffs into TIFFS which I then post process in PSCS.

On avarage...I'm gonna estimate that the D2X full size nefs take an addition 5 -10 seconds to open and the same amount of time longer to save as a tiff than my D2H files did.

I've processed well over 500 images to date.

Al B said:
Ron Gallegos said:

this is directed at those who have had their cameras now for awhile
and can give some practical answers. when shooting nefs with the
d2x, just how long is the processing aspect. i plan on using both
capture and picasa to work with those files. i assume picasa will
open them where i can do some quick look-sees and touch ups while
capture will give me the final shot.

but it sounds liike the more i read, the more fearful i become of
very long processing times. my computer system is fairly new but
certainly not a super power. it's done fine with nefs from the d2h.

can someone throw some practical experience and enlightenment on
the subject. i'm not looking for the technical, just what your
experience has been as a shooter, not as a techie. thanks, ron.

Click to expand...

Ron,
I am certaiinly no expert when it come to computers however I
thought I would offer my expereince. I have a 2.53 Ghz Gateway
computer. Initially I had 500 MB of RAM which did a good job on my
D100/D70. I shoot primarily in RAW. Even after upgrading my RAM
to 1 Gig I still find the processing speed to be quite slow in NC
4.2.1. latest version. I am going to be upgrading the RAM to 2
Gig ASAP. Having said the above the D2X is definitely worth the
extra time.

Al B

--
Al B

P Base Supporter
http://www.pbase.com/al_b/

'What we see depends mainly on what we look for.'
--Sir John Lubbock

--
Jim Fenton

http://www.pbase.com/soonipi1957

Jono Slack · Mar 26, 2005

Michael Worley said:
Great idea to go for the NEF when the jpeg shows something really
exceptional, and otherwise use the jpeg. Should really speed
processing for me. With that system, I'll process about one NEF a
week!

HI Mike - it isn't necessarily even for exceptional photos - just for ones which need special treatment.

When ACR II finally supports D2x RAW in photoshop, then it'll be even simpler - you can just open the nef directly if there's a problem with the jpg.

Works for me.

kind regards
jono

Michael Worley said:
Regards,

Mike

Jono Slack said:

Most of my stuff is printed A3 size and above, and for this purpose
jpg is usually just fine.

I use firewire external hard drives for backup - quick, reasonably
cheap, and they get bigger at about the same rate as my library!

Kind Regards
Jono Slack

Ron Gallegos said:

i haven't been swayed from getting the d2x, there are just too many
positives to put it aside. i was just really wary of the
processing times. i think jono may have come up with the best
solution of all, that is to shoot in both neff and low jpeg. that
way i can play with the jpegs without the time consuming process
and then if there is really a keeper, i have the neff as well. i
suppose though it would be best to burn the files immediately onto
a cd as opposed to putting them on the hard drive and burning up
space there. i know there are going to be trade offs and i feel
like i'm getting into deep water and my swimming skills are just
not that good. thanks again, ron.

Click to expand...

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

Click to expand...

--
Mike
---
'No matter how many lenses and cameras you take, you've always got
the wrong lens on.' Jay Maisel

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

Jono Slack · Mar 26, 2005

Michael Worley said:
. . . and among my group, several are going for what we're calling
"the super duper computer" that one of our group builds.

I think Jono may have pointed out the real problem, although I'm no
techie, either. My laptop and desktop get really slow processing
D2x files, but those files are much smaller than other files that I
routinely retrieve and work on with no problem. I can retrieve and
work on 150 - 200 Mb PSD files without any trouble, but getting
capture to retrieve a D2x NEF and then to save the processed file
kind of taxed my patience.

But I'm keeping the D2x, mind you! I'm just not sure I'll shell
out another few thousand for a super duper computer, and then
whatever a super duper laptop computer costs. Not to mention the
added cost already incurred for 2-gig and 4-gig CF cards.

Glad I didn't take up an expensive hobby, like golf!

Regards,

Mike

LOL - well, certainly on my modest mac, Bibble is reasonably fast - certainly a great deal faster than capture, and seems to work pretty much as well. It's cheaper too!

Kind Regards
jono

Michael Worley said:
Ron Gallegos said:

this is directed at those who have had their cameras now for awhile
and can give some practical answers. when shooting nefs with the
d2x, just how long is the processing aspect. i plan on using both
capture and picasa to work with those files. i assume picasa will
open them where i can do some quick look-sees and touch ups while
capture will give me the final shot.

but it sounds liike the more i read, the more fearful i become of
very long processing times. my computer system is fairly new but
certainly not a super power. it's done fine with nefs from the d2h.

can someone throw some practical experience and enlightenment on
the subject. i'm not looking for the technical, just what your
experience has been as a shooter, not as a techie. thanks, ron.

Click to expand...

--
Mike
---
'No matter how many lenses and cameras you take, you've always got
the wrong lens on.' Jay Maisel

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

Raul · Mar 26, 2005

I am quite a loss still. NC is simply a mess not only in speed but in other aspects eg curves take ages to refresh (when they do). Cannot open with comfort more than one nef.

I will have to get a new laptop and upgrade my second computer (pentium 4 2.2Ghz). My main, dual amd athlon MP 2600+ barely makes it with 2gb ram and multiple scsi drives.

I shoot only nef (only 96 in a 2gb card - I would not dream of adding hq jpgs - times double). I will try Bibble for now I have been testing things in NC. NC is NOT good.

Not very happy with the dough I shall have to put out.

Still shooting my work with the 2h. The quality of the 2x is very good - something that we had not seen before in Nikon, a new experience all together. Honestly, I feel much more comfortable 2H for the time being.

Kindest regards

Raul

Jono Slack · Mar 26, 2005

Raul said:
I am quite a loss still. NC is simply a mess not only in speed but
in other aspects eg curves take ages to refresh (when they do).
Cannot open with comfort more than one nef.

I will have to get a new laptop and upgrade my second computer
(pentium 4 2.2Ghz). My main, dual amd athlon MP 2600+ barely makes
it with 2gb ram and multiple scsi drives.

I shoot only nef (only 96 in a 2gb card - I would not dream of
adding hq jpgs - times double).

HI there Raul (incidentally, did you mean Julia borg, in which case, does she know)?

I guess if you're shooting sports events the time does matter, but as far as I'm concerned, operation is instant, and twice no time is no time! (using lexar X80 2gb cards).

Kind Regards
Jono
I will try Bibble for now I have

Raul said:
been testing things in NC. NC is NOT good.

Not very happy with the dough I shall have to put out.

Still shooting my work with the 2h. The quality of the 2x is very
good - something that we had not seen before in Nikon, a new
experience all together. Honestly, I feel much more comfortable 2H
for the time being.

Kindest regards

Raul

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

Freddy Rozentzvaig100749 · Mar 26, 2005

I just did my first ALL RAW shoot with the D2X, and let me tell you, the post wasn't fun. Granted, this was an emergency shoot, which I think you guys will find interesting. Here it goes: ....

Church choir organizer calls me on Monday. They need a large poster for an event they are having on Friday and Saturday (this is this week, by the way).

The only time the shot can be done, because all will be gathered, is Wednesday night at 8:30 PM. I live 1 hour, 20 minutes away.

They need the poster by the next morning so there is time to get it framed for Friday's event.

So I shot at 9:00 PM, got home at 10:45, and had no energy for anything else (haven't been sleeping much. Wife and I may be splitting up and life hasn't been fun or easy). So I went to sleep.

Got up at 4:00 AM to process and print. Thank god for my good old Epson 4000 - what lab would do this in a 12 hour period, and in the middle of the night.

So, got everything done by 6:00 AM. Went to walk the dog, and noticed I had a new lagoon in front of the house - broken sprinkler pipe.

Got everything turned off, and went to a networking breakfast 45 minutes AWAY from where I needed to deliver the poster.

Finished breakfast, drove 1 hour 45 minutes to deliver the poster and collect the money.

In all honesty, having shot NEF wasn't the biggest contributor to my woes, but from now on, I will definitely be shooting both NEF and JPEG fine. Cards have gotten a lot cheaper than my own time is worth, so I'll be investing in them.

happy shooting,

Freddy

Raul · Mar 26, 2005

She does not know... Man dont spread the word please or I will have to ban myself

Regards Mon amie

Raul

Jono Slack said:
Raul said:

I am quite a loss still. NC is simply a mess not only in speed but
in other aspects eg curves take ages to refresh (when they do).
Cannot open with comfort more than one nef.

I will have to get a new laptop and upgrade my second computer
(pentium 4 2.2Ghz). My main, dual amd athlon MP 2600+ barely makes
it with 2gb ram and multiple scsi drives.

I shoot only nef (only 96 in a 2gb card - I would not dream of
adding hq jpgs - times double).

Click to expand...

HI there Raul (incidentally, did you mean Julia borg, in which
case, does she know)?

I guess if you're shooting sports events the time does matter, but
as far as I'm concerned, operation is instant, and twice no time is
no time! (using lexar X80 2gb cards).

Kind Regards
Jono
I will try Bibble for now I have

Jono Slack said:

been testing things in NC. NC is NOT good.

Not very happy with the dough I shall have to put out.

Still shooting my work with the 2h. The quality of the 2x is very
good - something that we had not seen before in Nikon, a new
experience all together. Honestly, I feel much more comfortable 2H
for the time being.

Kindest regards

Raul

Click to expand...

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

Jono Slack · Mar 26, 2005

Put $25,000 in my paypal account immediately or I'll rush straight off and tell her.

snigger snigger

kind regards
jono slack

Raul said:
Regards Mon amie

Raul

Jono Slack said:

Raul said:

I am quite a loss still. NC is simply a mess not only in speed but
in other aspects eg curves take ages to refresh (when they do).
Cannot open with comfort more than one nef.

I will have to get a new laptop and upgrade my second computer
(pentium 4 2.2Ghz). My main, dual amd athlon MP 2600+ barely makes
it with 2gb ram and multiple scsi drives.

I shoot only nef (only 96 in a 2gb card - I would not dream of
adding hq jpgs - times double).

Click to expand...

HI there Raul (incidentally, did you mean Julia borg, in which
case, does she know)?

I guess if you're shooting sports events the time does matter, but
as far as I'm concerned, operation is instant, and twice no time is
no time! (using lexar X80 2gb cards).

Kind Regards
Jono
I will try Bibble for now I have

Raul said:

been testing things in NC. NC is NOT good.

Not very happy with the dough I shall have to put out.

Still shooting my work with the 2h. The quality of the 2x is very
good - something that we had not seen before in Nikon, a new
experience all together. Honestly, I feel much more comfortable 2H
for the time being.

Kindest regards

Raul

Click to expand...

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

Click to expand...

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

ron gallegos · Mar 26, 2005

thanks, raul, i was hoping you would chime in. with the computer knowledge that you have, what you say carries a lot of impact with regard to processing those files. the free google program, picasa, that someone on this forum turned me onto opens d2h nefs and processes as well. i wonder if it will do the same with the d2x and how expedient it is. just go to google and images and download. it's a wonderful program. i have ps 7, capture and picasa. each is excellent in its own right and each has its shortcomings.

Raul · Mar 26, 2005

Jono Slack said:
snigger snigger

kind regards
jono slack

Raul said:

Regards Mon amie

Raul

Jono Slack said:

Raul said:

I am quite a loss still. NC is simply a mess not only in speed but
in other aspects eg curves take ages to refresh (when they do).
Cannot open with comfort more than one nef.

I will have to get a new laptop and upgrade my second computer
(pentium 4 2.2Ghz). My main, dual amd athlon MP 2600+ barely makes
it with 2gb ram and multiple scsi drives.

I shoot only nef (only 96 in a 2gb card - I would not dream of
adding hq jpgs - times double).

Click to expand...

HI there Raul (incidentally, did you mean Julia borg, in which
case, does she know)?

I guess if you're shooting sports events the time does matter, but
as far as I'm concerned, operation is instant, and twice no time is
no time! (using lexar X80 2gb cards).

Kind Regards
Jono
I will try Bibble for now I have

Jono Slack said:

been testing things in NC. NC is NOT good.

Not very happy with the dough I shall have to put out.

Still shooting my work with the 2h. The quality of the 2x is very
good - something that we had not seen before in Nikon, a new
experience all together. Honestly, I feel much more comfortable 2H
for the time being.

Kindest regards

Raul

Click to expand...

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

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