Imorality and the Dell error

albertwesker said:

Other then just conversation, people need to stop being so
sensitive to others business.

Click to expand...

This kind of thinking is exactly what's wrong with people and, by extension, America today. We've become so self-involved that we give no consideration to the repercussions of our actions. We think taking advantage of some giant corporation is a birthright, as if it were a game. We've demonized corporations to the degree that we take pride in getting over on them. We delight in cheating on our taxes, screwing a corporation, bilking an insurance company or even speeding on the freeway.

We've made it acceptable to do these things and even elevated it to an expected practice. It's turned into a free-for-all with no one having a second thought about how these behaviors affect us all. How do you think a company like Dell will make up the loss of having to honor a simple mistake such as this? Of course, it will be spread out over the sales of other items. So every other Dell customer will help subsidize the cost of Dell's mistake. A few will get a great deal and the rest of us will pay for it.

The same is true of insurance. A guy gets in a fender bender. In order to cover his deductible he gets a shady body shop to inflate the estimate so that he has little or no out-of-pocket expense. No big deal, right? Everyone does it, don't they? Sure. And every insurance premium reflects the added cost of it. We all end up paying for this behavior in the form of higher premiums. But so long as you're taken care of, why worry about anyone else?

But the monetary cost is only the tip of the iceberg. No one stops to consider the human cost of these behaviors. Layoffs, firings, hiring freezes--many are directly related to these added costs of doing business. But not to worry, you got a great deal on that lens, didn't you? Fudged on your taxes? That's OK, you probably won't even notice the problems of underfunding that result from lower tax revenues.

Our society has become so self-centered that we aren't even a society any more. We're just a collection of ego-centric individuals looking out only for ourselves. To those of you who took advantage of Dell's mistake, enjoy your new lens. It won't cost Dell a cent to make you happy. We'll all pay for your good fortune with our future Dell purchases.

--
Rick A. Diaz
http://www.mcjournalist.com
The image is everything.
My opinions are my own. I paid good money for them.
See my profile for equipment list.

Rick said:

albertwesker said:

Other then just conversation, people need to stop being so
sensitive to others business.

Click to expand...

This kind of thinking is exactly what's wrong with people and, by
extension, America today. We've become so self-involved that we
give no consideration to the repercussions of our actions.

Click to expand...

You seem to make alot of generalizations. What makes you so perfect compared to the "rest of us" . Self-involved with what? How do you even consider this to be taking advantage of Dell? They have NOT even admitted to a pricing error or any type of error whatsoever.

What's wrong is that people such as yourself feel the need to impose their own moralities on others who may not share the same boundaries as you so to speak. This is an internet forum. Who cares? This issue really comes down to morality , and anybody can argue the other side till they turn blue. I can see both sides , although my posts might seem to indicate that I wouldn't care about getting the deal if I could , which isn't necessarily the truth.

You didn't address my issue of saying what if the price were $900, $1000, $1100 but STILL a pricing error on Dell's part. Would you think it's ok? It isn't the reality but it is much more gray then let's say $200.00 where everybody is quick to tout ethics. How many of you jumped on the 70-200 IS Dell deal , and are here now spouting ethics when the reality is you missed out on clicking the order button?

Rick, I admire your convictions . However, capitalism will still go on. People will always look for the best deal for themselves, not for a company.

It's weird, if I spend $1400.00 for this lens at B/H it's ok. If I spend $1200.00 it's STILL ok because I got a good deal. Now where does the dollar threshold have to cross before my ethics get questioned? $200.00 is definiately making me a bad guy of "what's wrong with society today". So ethics , have a certain dollar value to reach before it becomes wrong?

All in all, really Dell can cancel the orders. SO BE IT! At least those of you who tried get some for effort. If it is so detrimental to society like you put it, Dell will just get rid of these frivolous orders instead of even trying to deal with them.

US law generally is on the side of the seller in these kinds of cases, where the offer has an obvious unintended error that the customer knows to be an error. There is no binding contract since there is no knowing assent by Dell.

The $100 coupon is very generous. Dell, legally, is not obligated to honor any of these sales, and those trying to take advantage and force delivery of the L lens are effectively stealing. This is not a victimless crime.

Ken Croft said:

I will get flamed for this I am sure, but I am ashamed of the
attitude of many posters on this forum with respect to the Dell
100-400 pricing error. It is quite clear that Dell made a mistake
and have owned up to this. They appear in some cases to have
offered $100 compensation for the disappointment, which I would see
as very generous. I can even see that it was a good idea to take
advantage of the pricing mistake. But to try to screw Dell, or any
other company or individual who appears to have made an honest
error, in the way that some posters claim to be doing, tells me a
lot about the morality of those involved. Perhaps those who placed
an order for multiple lenses at a price they must have known was a
mistake, would see this "stealing" as another victimless crime, or
perhaps no kind of crime at all. I know exactly how they would
react if they were being shafted over an innocent error they
themselves might have made at sometime in their lives.
And no, I am not some christian do-gooder freak with a
holy-er-than-thou perspective, just a brit who is right now
disappointed with our cousins accross the pond.

--
ken from the UK

Click to expand...

albertwesker wrote:
snip...

albertwesker said:

What's wrong with placing an order , if it is really that big of a
deal Dell will cancel the orders right? Or can they not do that?

Click to expand...

I think what's wrong is that the original web page showed two separate part numbers, for two different lenses with a description of the higher priced lens offered at the lower price.

99% of the people that ordered one or more lenses knew or certainly know by now that there was a mistake and not just a "good deal". They hoped that they would get their lens shipped to them before Dell could correct their mistake....and perhaps they will.
albert....Do you think this is OK?

-Don

"those trying to take advantage and

Lemming51 said:

force delivery of the L lens are effectively stealing."

Click to expand...

Wrong! There is no stealing involved. Dell made an offer, I accepted it, they acknowledged the order, they confirmed the order....they charged my card (not just an authorization, it is posted). It is called a business agreement, a purchase. You should check the definition.....

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary ( on a dell?)

One entry found for steal.

Main Entry: 1steal
Pronunciation: 'stE(&)l
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): stole 'stOl ; sto·len 'stO-l&n ; steal·ing

Etymology: Middle English stelen, from Old English stelan; akin to Old High German stelan to steal
intransitive senses

1 : to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as an habitual or regular practice
2 : to come or go secretly, unobtrusively, gradually, or unexpectedly
3 : to steal or attempt to steal a base
transitive senses

1 a : to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully b : to take away by force or unjust means c : to take surreptitiously or without permission d : to appropriate to oneself or beyond one's proper share : make oneself the focus of

2 a : to move, convey, or introduce secretly : SMUGGLE b : to accomplish in a concealed or unobserved manner

3 a : to seize, gain, or win by trickery, skill, or daring b of a base runner : to reach (a base) safely solely by running and usually catching the opposing team off guard

• steal·able 'stE-l&-b&l adjective
• steal·er noun
• steal a march on : to gain an advantage on unobserved
• steal one's thunder : to grab attention from another especially by anticipating an idea, plan, or presentation also : to claim credit for another's idea

synonyms STEAL, PILFER, FILCH, PURLOIN mean to take from another without right or without detection. STEAL may apply to any surreptitious taking of something and differs from the other terms by commonly applying to intangibles as well as material things . PILFER implies stealing repeatedly in small amounts . FILCH adds a suggestion of snatching quickly and surreptitiously . PURLOIN stresses removing or carrying off for one's own use or purposes .

Sorry sir, I don't believe anyone stole or is in the process of stealing anything.

Bill

We don't want a $100 coupon, we just want the EF100-400 IS USM lens we ordered. Yeah, Dell have been trying to make people cancel their order during the past 4 days and give out coupons. If Dell think they are in the clear, why ask people do you want to cancel your order and I'll give you a coupon. Because Dell know they are in trouble and have to honor all the orders for people who have the acknowledgement and confirmation email.

I work at a law firm and I asked many lawyers already regarding this situation. They all said we have a very good case against Dell.

Lemming51 said:

The $100 coupon is very generous. Dell, legally, is not obligated
to honor any of these sales, and those trying to take advantage and
force delivery of the L lens are effectively stealing. This is not
a victimless crime.

Ken Croft said:

I will get flamed for this I am sure, but I am ashamed of the
attitude of many posters on this forum with respect to the Dell
100-400 pricing error. It is quite clear that Dell made a mistake
and have owned up to this. They appear in some cases to have
offered $100 compensation for the disappointment, which I would see
as very generous. I can even see that it was a good idea to take
advantage of the pricing mistake. But to try to screw Dell, or any
other company or individual who appears to have made an honest
error, in the way that some posters claim to be doing, tells me a
lot about the morality of those involved. Perhaps those who placed
an order for multiple lenses at a price they must have known was a
mistake, would see this "stealing" as another victimless crime, or
perhaps no kind of crime at all. I know exactly how they would
react if they were being shafted over an innocent error they
themselves might have made at sometime in their lives.
And no, I am not some christian do-gooder freak with a
holy-er-than-thou perspective, just a brit who is right now
disappointed with our cousins accross the pond.

--
ken from the UK

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I agree 100%. After the confirmation email, Dell and I have a binding contract for the Ef100-400 IS USM.

jowille said:

jowille said:

force delivery of the L lens are effectively stealing."

Click to expand...

Wrong! There is no stealing involved. Dell made an offer, I
accepted it, they acknowledged the order, they confirmed the
order....they charged my card (not just an authorization, it is
posted). It is called a business agreement, a purchase. You
should check the definition.....

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary ( on a dell?)

One entry found for steal.

Main Entry: 1steal
Pronunciation: 'stE(&)l
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): stole 'stOl ; sto·len 'stO-l&n ; steal·ing
Etymology: Middle English stelen, from Old English stelan; akin to
Old High German stelan to steal
intransitive senses
1 : to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as an
habitual or regular practice
2 : to come or go secretly, unobtrusively, gradually, or unexpectedly
3 : to steal or attempt to steal a base
transitive senses
1 a : to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent
to keep or make use of wrongfully b : to take away by force or
unjust means c : to take surreptitiously or without permission d
: to appropriate to oneself or beyond one's proper share : make
oneself the focus of
2 a : to move, convey, or introduce secretly : SMUGGLE b : to
accomplish in a concealed or unobserved manner
3 a : to seize, gain, or win by trickery, skill, or daring b of a
base runner : to reach (a base) safely solely by running and
usually catching the opposing team off guard

• steal·able 'stE-l&-b&l adjective
• steal·er noun
• steal a march on : to gain an advantage on unobserved
• steal one's thunder : to grab attention from another especially

by anticipating an idea, plan, or presentation also : to claim
credit for another's idea
synonyms STEAL, PILFER, FILCH, PURLOIN mean to take from another
without right or without detection. STEAL may apply to any
surreptitious taking of something and differs from the other terms
by commonly applying to intangibles as well as material things .
PILFER implies stealing repeatedly in small amounts . FILCH adds a
suggestion of snatching quickly and surreptitiously . PURLOIN
stresses removing or carrying off for one's own use or purposes .

Sorry sir, I don't believe anyone stole or is in the process of
stealing anything.

Bill

Click to expand...

$200 for the EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS USM was not a knowing and intended offer, it was a mistake, and everyone ordering it knows that. Dell thought they were offering the EF 75-300 f/4-5.6 for that price, not the 100-400L.

Legally, there was not enforceable offer nor contract. Anyone trying to hold them to the erroneous ad is attempting to steal $1200 in merchandise that was never intended to be offered.

That Dell's automated order process sent acknowledgement is, again, an obvious and unintended error. It does not necessarily prove intent or an enforceable contract. The confirmations and credit card charges were for the 75-300 at $200 even if they erroneously named the other lens.

Your definitions apply:

"1 : to take the property of another wrongfully..." and "1 a : to take or appropriate without right..." - there is no valid contract, no knowing meeting of the minds on this transaction. To force completion of the transaction is wrong and there is no legal right to do so.

albertwesker said:

Rick said:

albertwesker said:

Other then just conversation, people need to stop being so
sensitive to others business.

Click to expand...

This kind of thinking is exactly what's wrong with people and, by
extension, America today. We've become so self-involved that we
give no consideration to the repercussions of our actions.

Click to expand...

You seem to make alot of generalizations. What makes you so
perfect compared to the "rest of us" . Self-involved with what?
How do you even consider this to be taking advantage of Dell? They
have NOT even admitted to a pricing error or any type of error
whatsoever.

What's wrong is that people such as yourself feel the need to
impose their own moralities on others who may not share the same
boundaries as you so to speak. This is an internet forum. Who
cares? This issue really comes down to morality , and anybody can
argue the other side till they turn blue. I can see both sides ,
although my posts might seem to indicate that I wouldn't care about
getting the deal if I could , which isn't necessarily the truth.

You didn't address my issue of saying what if the price were $900,
$1000, $1100 but STILL a pricing error on Dell's part. Would you
think it's ok? It isn't the reality but it is much more gray then
let's say $200.00 where everybody is quick to tout ethics. How
many of you jumped on the 70-200 IS Dell deal , and are here now
spouting ethics when the reality is you missed out on clicking the
order button?

Rick, I admire your convictions . However, capitalism will still
go on. People will always look for the best deal for themselves,
not for a company.

It's weird, if I spend $1400.00 for this lens at B/H it's ok. If
I spend $1200.00 it's STILL ok because I got a good deal. Now
where does the dollar threshold have to cross before my ethics get
questioned? $200.00 is definiately making me a bad guy of "what's
wrong with society today". So ethics , have a certain dollar value
to reach before it becomes wrong?

All in all, really Dell can cancel the orders. SO BE IT! At least
those of you who tried get some for effort. If it is so
detrimental to society like you put it, Dell will just get rid of
these frivolous orders instead of even trying to deal with them.

Click to expand...

--
(See profile for equipment I own -- questions welcome.)

Like most of the people who got in on the 100-400 deal, I put in my order early on, before it was clear that there was a pricing error on Dell's part. A 100-400L for $200 from a reputable dealer?? I'm definitely in.

When it became clear that it was indeed a pricing error, I was thinking of just cancelling my order. But since Dell decided to cherrypick its way in getting people to cancel orders...asking people to cancel without coupons....then offering $50-$100 coupons...and now with the delay...all the time without acknowledging a pricing error and just cancelling all orders, I'm definitely not cancelling and will see this thing through. It's clear that Dell is playing a game and is trying to dog people into cancelling. While this is standard business practice for a lot of companies, it's pretty stupid for Dell to try this considering how easily people can find out about this differentiation. It also stands to reason that the longer a buyer stonewalls, the more likely Dell is to fulfill the order.

If Dell decided from the very start to just cancel all 100-400 orders at the wrong price, I'm sure that the majority would just suck it up. Since Dell has decided to play a game, I'll play too....

I do agree with you and I thought that many of the posters would better change their nicknames after the dust settles.

Sadly there are some people among them who have been very respectable on these forums...

Ken Croft said:

I will get flamed for this I am sure, but I am ashamed of the
attitude of many posters on this forum with respect to the Dell
100-400 pricing error. It is quite clear that Dell made a mistake
and have owned up to this. They appear in some cases to have
offered $100 compensation for the disappointment, which I would see
as very generous. I can even see that it was a good idea to take
advantage of the pricing mistake. But to try to screw Dell, or any
other company or individual who appears to have made an honest
error, in the way that some posters claim to be doing, tells me a
lot about the morality of those involved. Perhaps those who placed
an order for multiple lenses at a price they must have known was a
mistake, would see this "stealing" as another victimless crime, or
perhaps no kind of crime at all. I know exactly how they would
react if they were being shafted over an innocent error they
themselves might have made at sometime in their lives.
And no, I am not some christian do-gooder freak with a
holy-er-than-thou perspective, just a brit who is right now
disappointed with our cousins accross the pond.

--
ken from the UK

Click to expand...

Is it even legally possible to have a binding contract generated by a computer acting on behalf of a legal entity? AFAIK, only real live persons and corporations are legal entities in the U.S. and only they have the authority to enter a contract.

If your reasoning did hold up, it would inflate prices for all ecommerce in the U.S. Instead of relying on automated systems which work 99.9% of the time, online mail order businesses would have to pay to have people screen each and every order for pricing errors, or they'd have to eat the losses from the 0.1% of the time things didn't work. Either way, they'd pass the costs on to their customers as higher prices.

All you've done is obtain an extraordinarily low price for yourself, which is offset by higher prices for all the other customers out there. The net effect is the same as you stealing from the other customers no matter how you rationalize the details.

ShootingStars said:

jowille said:

ShootingStars said:

force delivery of the L lens are effectively stealing."

Click to expand...

Wrong! There is no stealing involved. Dell made an offer, I
accepted it, they acknowledged the order, they confirmed the
order....they charged my card (not just an authorization, it is
posted). It is called a business agreement, a purchase. You
should check the definition.....

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary ( on a dell?)

One entry found for steal.

Main Entry: 1steal
Pronunciation: 'stE(&)l
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): stole 'stOl ; sto·len 'stO-l&n ; steal·ing
Etymology: Middle English stelen, from Old English stelan; akin to
Old High German stelan to steal
intransitive senses
1 : to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as an
habitual or regular practice
2 : to come or go secretly, unobtrusively, gradually, or unexpectedly
3 : to steal or attempt to steal a base
transitive senses
1 a : to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent
to keep or make use of wrongfully b : to take away by force or
unjust means c : to take surreptitiously or without permission d
: to appropriate to oneself or beyond one's proper share : make
oneself the focus of
2 a : to move, convey, or introduce secretly : SMUGGLE b : to
accomplish in a concealed or unobserved manner
3 a : to seize, gain, or win by trickery, skill, or daring b of a
base runner : to reach (a base) safely solely by running and
usually catching the opposing team off guard

• steal·able 'stE-l&-b&l adjective
• steal·er noun
• steal a march on : to gain an advantage on unobserved
• steal one's thunder : to grab attention from another especially

by anticipating an idea, plan, or presentation also : to claim
credit for another's idea
synonyms STEAL, PILFER, FILCH, PURLOIN mean to take from another
without right or without detection. STEAL may apply to any
surreptitious taking of something and differs from the other terms
by commonly applying to intangibles as well as material things .
PILFER implies stealing repeatedly in small amounts . FILCH adds a
suggestion of snatching quickly and surreptitiously . PURLOIN
stresses removing or carrying off for one's own use or purposes .

Sorry sir, I don't believe anyone stole or is in the process of
stealing anything.

Bill

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Wm. Bates said:

OK...thes are just my opinions and I have no problems with whatever
any else thinks or feel good or bad about Dell or those that
ordered lenses.

I placed an order and I'm waiting to see what happens. When I
placed the order I figured one of three things could happen:

Click to expand...

Say you were a clueless newbie photographer and placed an order for the 75-300 lens at $1500.

Wm. Bates said:

1
. Dell could cancel the order as they state in there "Terms"
statement because it was a pricing error on the 100-400. If they
cancel my order I have no problem. I knew what the 'terms" were.

Click to expand...

Dell could cancel the order for the 75-300, no problem. Check.

Wm. Bates said:

2. They could ship me a 100-400. Of course if they do I'm a
thrilled happy customer. At this point if they do ship the lens it
is to keep customer goodwill that is their decision and I have no
problems with that. Because that would be their decision I don't
feel I'm cheating Dell. I haven demanded that they ship me the lens.

Click to expand...

Dell could ship you a 75-300 and you'd be a thrilled happy customer. Nope.

Wm. Bates said:

3. They could ship the 75-300. That I have a problem with. Dell
knows there was a mistake. Dell knows when my order was placed.
They know they sent me emails with a complete description of a
100-400 lens. If they ship the 75-300 which they know isn't what I
ordered they have broken their own "term agreement" which clearly
states they may at their option cancel my order. No where can I
find in the Terms that they can substitute a inferior or different
product. In fact the terms indicate from time to time the do
substitute parts of lower value but higher performance when a part
is outdated. The 75-300 doesn't fit this description.

Click to expand...

They ship the 100-400L. You have a problem with that. You'd accuse them of deception and breaking their terms of agreement, and demand they exchange it for a 75-300. That'll never happen.

Wm. Bates said:

Dell knows they made a mistake. How they decide to fix the mistake
is up to them. They can cancel or ship a 100-400IS. If they ship
the 75-300 then they are guilty of bait and switch.
--
Bill
Taking It One Day At a Time

Click to expand...

Basically, avoiding relativistic morality is just a matter of asking yourself, "Would I react in the same way if the situation were reversed?" Would you complain to Dell if you ordered a $1500 lens and they shipped you a $200 one? If the answer is yes, then your own morality obligates you to fess up if you order a $200 lens and they ship you a $1500 lens. Otherwise you're guilty of a double standard that changes based on whether or not the situation favors you.

Just to clarify, as the poster said, this is a clear cut case of a mistake and Dell is not under any legal obligation to deliver. What makes it even simpler -- if that's possible -- is that the web site links got crossed. So on their end Dell always showed an order for the 75-300. And if you had graduated from a law school I'd hope you'd know that they don't have to do anything for you.

On the other hand, Dell is a big company and if they are willing to give you a $100 coupon that's their business decision. And if you can mau mau them into delivering the 100-400 that's fine as well. Given the mismatch in resources, it's hardly stealing for some joker to force a huge company into delivering a product they don't have to legally deliver.

FWIW, I have an order in so don't think it's sour grapes. I'm just waiting to see how this works out.

DSC

jowille said:

jowille said:

force delivery of the L lens are effectively stealing."

Click to expand...

Wrong! There is no stealing involved. Dell made an offer, I
accepted it, they acknowledged the order, they confirmed the
order....they charged my card (not just an authorization, it is
posted). It is called a business agreement, a purchase. You
should check the definition.....

Click to expand...

Factor in the fact that Dell would happily sell you the 75-300 for $1500 and you understand why so many of us jumped on the $200 100-400L. After years of substandard equipment and substandard service... a break!

Dell has the right to cancel. no harm done.

they don't cancel, so not my fault.

Explain this with your moral..why Dell does not simply cancell all these orders???

Ken Croft said:

I will get flamed for this I am sure, but I am ashamed of the
attitude of many posters on this forum with respect to the Dell
100-400 pricing error. It is quite clear that Dell made a mistake
and have owned up to this. They appear in some cases to have
offered $100 compensation for the disappointment, which I would see
as very generous. I can even see that it was a good idea to take
advantage of the pricing mistake. But to try to screw Dell, or any
other company or individual who appears to have made an honest
error, in the way that some posters claim to be doing, tells me a
lot about the morality of those involved. Perhaps those who placed
an order for multiple lenses at a price they must have known was a
mistake, would see this "stealing" as another victimless crime, or
perhaps no kind of crime at all. I know exactly how they would
react if they were being shafted over an innocent error they
themselves might have made at sometime in their lives.
And no, I am not some christian do-gooder freak with a
holy-er-than-thou perspective, just a brit who is right now
disappointed with our cousins accross the pond.

--
ken from the UK

Click to expand...

--
------------------------------------------
this is elfe language from Lord of the ring:
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send them to me via email instead! thanks.

I received my email today..no mention of the mistake what so ever..just a notification that the order will ship on 12/29/04 and that no further action from me is required..

they obviously KNOW about the mistake now..so why they did not tell me about it?

I can reasonably understand from this that there is no mistake, if I was a customer not going to dpreview and not knowing about it.

If I had doubt that it was a pricing error to begin with..my doubts would be gone with that new email.

EOSMan said:

You're assuming too much at this point.

It's all hearsay because Dell hasn't made an official statement.

--
EOSMan
http://www.pbase.com/eosman

Click to expand...

--
------------------------------------------
this is elfe language from Lord of the ring:
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send them to me via email instead! thanks.

Lemming51 said:

US law generally is on the side of the seller in these kinds of
cases, where the offer has an obvious unintended error that the
customer knows to be an error. There is no binding contract since
there is no knowing assent by Dell.

The $100 coupon is very generous. Dell, legally, is not obligated
to honor any of these sales, and those trying to take advantage and
force delivery of the L lens are effectively stealing. This is not
a victimless crime.

Click to expand...

dah..but if they don't take their right to cancel and still go through with those orders knowing very well that there is a mistake..then that can only mean that they accept the deal.

Lemming51 said:

Ken Croft said:

I will get flamed for this I am sure, but I am ashamed of the
attitude of many posters on this forum with respect to the Dell
100-400 pricing error. It is quite clear that Dell made a mistake
and have owned up to this. They appear in some cases to have
offered $100 compensation for the disappointment, which I would see
as very generous. I can even see that it was a good idea to take
advantage of the pricing mistake. But to try to screw Dell, or any
other company or individual who appears to have made an honest
error, in the way that some posters claim to be doing, tells me a
lot about the morality of those involved. Perhaps those who placed
an order for multiple lenses at a price they must have known was a
mistake, would see this "stealing" as another victimless crime, or
perhaps no kind of crime at all. I know exactly how they would
react if they were being shafted over an innocent error they
themselves might have made at sometime in their lives.
And no, I am not some christian do-gooder freak with a
holy-er-than-thou perspective, just a brit who is right now
disappointed with our cousins accross the pond.

--
ken from the UK

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--
------------------------------------------
this is elfe language from Lord of the ring:
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send them to me via email instead! thanks.

it was computer generated you say? of course..but then Dell knows about the mistake very well...

they have canceled some orders but not all? so does it mean that they accept some orders that were qualifiying..not more then 5 etc..??

Dell is digging this deeper and deeper by not cancelling all orders.

I just received my 3th confirmation that the order was processed and will be shipped on 12/29/04..

no mention of the mistake in price..no mention of the mistake in lens..nothing.

John Kim said:

If your reasoning did hold up, it would inflate prices for all
ecommerce in the U.S. Instead of relying on automated systems
which work 99.9% of the time, online mail order businesses would
have to pay to have people screen each and every order for pricing
errors, or they'd have to eat the losses from the 0.1% of the time
things didn't work. Either way, they'd pass the costs on to their
customers as higher prices.

All you've done is obtain an extraordinarily low price for
yourself, which is offset by higher prices for all the other
customers out there. The net effect is the same as you stealing
from the other customers no matter how you rationalize the details.

ShootingStars said:

jowille said:

Member said:

force delivery of the L lens are effectively stealing."

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Wrong! There is no stealing involved. Dell made an offer, I
accepted it, they acknowledged the order, they confirmed the
order....they charged my card (not just an authorization, it is
posted). It is called a business agreement, a purchase. You
should check the definition.....

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary ( on a dell?)

One entry found for steal.

Main Entry: 1steal
Pronunciation: 'stE(&)l
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): stole 'stOl ; sto·len 'stO-l&n ; steal·ing
Etymology: Middle English stelen, from Old English stelan; akin to
Old High German stelan to steal
intransitive senses
1 : to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as an
habitual or regular practice
2 : to come or go secretly, unobtrusively, gradually, or unexpectedly
3 : to steal or attempt to steal a base
transitive senses
1 a : to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent
to keep or make use of wrongfully b : to take away by force or
unjust means c : to take surreptitiously or without permission d
: to appropriate to oneself or beyond one's proper share : make
oneself the focus of
2 a : to move, convey, or introduce secretly : SMUGGLE b : to
accomplish in a concealed or unobserved manner
3 a : to seize, gain, or win by trickery, skill, or daring b of a
base runner : to reach (a base) safely solely by running and
usually catching the opposing team off guard

• steal·able 'stE-l&-b&l adjective
• steal·er noun
• steal a march on : to gain an advantage on unobserved
• steal one's thunder : to grab attention from another especially

by anticipating an idea, plan, or presentation also : to claim
credit for another's idea
synonyms STEAL, PILFER, FILCH, PURLOIN mean to take from another
without right or without detection. STEAL may apply to any
surreptitious taking of something and differs from the other terms
by commonly applying to intangibles as well as material things .
PILFER implies stealing repeatedly in small amounts . FILCH adds a
suggestion of snatching quickly and surreptitiously . PURLOIN
stresses removing or carrying off for one's own use or purposes .

Sorry sir, I don't believe anyone stole or is in the process of
stealing anything.

Bill

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--
------------------------------------------
this is elfe language from Lord of the ring:
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send them to me via email instead! thanks.

Rick's not imposing his morality on others nor did he claim he was more perfect that anyone else. He simply offered justifiable criticism of a widespread hypocracy.

You can walk your hypothetical tightrope all you want, but it's clear when the price is a small fraction of what would be expected that people are only trying to take advantage. It's perfectly acceptable to view a 5% error differently than an 80% one and no one has to draw the line in order to justify that view. You're perspective is hardly interesting.

Of course, Dell has done exactly as you say leaving the greedy hypocrites to whine amongst themselves.

albertwesker said:

Rick said:

albertwesker said:

Other then just conversation, people need to stop being so
sensitive to others business.

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This kind of thinking is exactly what's wrong with people and, by
extension, America today. We've become so self-involved that we
give no consideration to the repercussions of our actions.

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You seem to make alot of generalizations. What makes you so
perfect compared to the "rest of us" . Self-involved with what?
How do you even consider this to be taking advantage of Dell? They
have NOT even admitted to a pricing error or any type of error
whatsoever.

What's wrong is that people such as yourself feel the need to
impose their own moralities on others who may not share the same
boundaries as you so to speak. This is an internet forum. Who
cares? This issue really comes down to morality , and anybody can
argue the other side till they turn blue. I can see both sides ,
although my posts might seem to indicate that I wouldn't care about
getting the deal if I could , which isn't necessarily the truth.

You didn't address my issue of saying what if the price were $900,
$1000, $1100 but STILL a pricing error on Dell's part. Would you
think it's ok? It isn't the reality but it is much more gray then
let's say $200.00 where everybody is quick to tout ethics. How
many of you jumped on the 70-200 IS Dell deal , and are here now
spouting ethics when the reality is you missed out on clicking the
order button?

Rick, I admire your convictions . However, capitalism will still
go on. People will always look for the best deal for themselves,
not for a company.

It's weird, if I spend $1400.00 for this lens at B/H it's ok. If
I spend $1200.00 it's STILL ok because I got a good deal. Now
where does the dollar threshold have to cross before my ethics get
questioned? $200.00 is definiately making me a bad guy of "what's
wrong with society today". So ethics , have a certain dollar value
to reach before it becomes wrong?

All in all, really Dell can cancel the orders. SO BE IT! At least
those of you who tried get some for effort. If it is so
detrimental to society like you put it, Dell will just get rid of
these frivolous orders instead of even trying to deal with them.

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