Replacement for D1x?

[cameraman12]

Thats all we need... another cat shooter that needs more resolution and ff sensor.

Are you even a professional photographer or do you just like annoying people? Considering your post history and how many times you've been called a troll recently, I wouldn't start talking about other peoples comments. Your reputation is a little tainted.

 

[John Gregg]

Not even one D1x for sale at KEH.

 

[Spence]

And ramp up. I genuinely dislike the announce and wait scenario (i.e. 70-200VR). I'm sure someone here has done the announce/ship calculations for all Nikon DSLR products.

Hopefully, when and if they do announce at, say Photokina, most major bugs (that affect the camera imposing a recall situation) are worked out and we can have something to beginning shooting with shortly after announcement. In sufficient quantities, etc.

The companies resources have been shifted to the D70 and P&S cameras but hopefully there is still capacity for their "pro" products.

We'll see. 2.5 months isn't that long is it?

Well if they could make one right now we would have it . However
one should not mistake not being able to market right now with not
being able at all. At the beginning of this year Nikon seemed just
to be able to match the demand for the D2H. So its quite natural to
assume that they target the D2X for a photokina release for an
efficient usage of the companies resources.

Peter

 

[jaduffy108]

According to the timeline posted here on DP Review website the D1
was released June 1999, the D1x and D1h were released Feb 2001 at
the approximate same time. Technnology marches forward and Nikon
owners feel that Nikon is the number one camera for DSLR cameras
with a bright and exciting future in a very exciting new
technology. Nikon owners feel a sybiotic relationship with Nikon.

Well since then, technology has surged forward with exciting new
advances. We know that because Canon us some of it in the 1Ds.
Nikon owners are also excited because they know that Nikon is the
number one camera manufacturer in the DSLR line and will respond
with a better version. Well Nikon did put out a new technology, DX
lenses. Nikon owners collectively went ... HUH?

We argued the advantages of a smaller picture at the same distance
and came up with all kinds of reasons why Nikon was still better
because we believed it. Then Canon came out with the 1DMK2.

Nikon went alright, the next generation of cameras is here now. OK
Nikon where are you, we are ready. We want to spend our money. We
want the new technology available for our huge collections of
lenses and Nikon gadgets.

Well Nikon did respond. They came out with a D70 that was cheaper
and would go well with those cheaper DX lenses. Nikon owners said,
hey what about us D1x/h owners. We want something that uses all
the great new technology. We got a buffer upgrade that could only
be done at the factory. We said okay, cool but that seemed like a
stop gap measure not a fix. We want the real thing, a D1next
generation that uses some of the new available technology those
guys with the white lenses get to use.

Nikon responded with a 4mp camera with less resolution than the
Coolpix. Nikon owners collectively said .... HUH? there was to
say the least a tremendous feeling that Nikon has abandoned its
most loyal supporters, the big lens crowd, D1x crowd.

We started rumbling and groussing and complaining to each other and
then some of us finally started jumping ship to the other side.
Those of us who were left behind because we couldn't afford the
loss of selling large numbers of expensive lenses and accessories,
figured any day now.

Well, any day now has come and gone. The D1s is getting a new
shine with firmware upgrades, The 1DMK2 is getting better. Canon
software is coming of age and Nikon D1x owners are still asking
when.

If we celebrate a fourth birthday for the D1x in Feb 2005 and there
is now news of a D2x, will you stay with Nikon if you have a D1x.
Will you wait for Feb 2006 or 2007.

How long can we keep making excuses for Nikon? When do we say,
Nikon is done with high resolution DSLR camera body because they
could not keep up with the competition? Do not wait for Nikon to
make this announcement. If they did, the current D1x and all DSLR
Nikons would be worthless. If they are out of this line, it will
come not with a bang. It will come with the wimpers of those of us
who waited and waited and waited and waited and waited and waited.

Scott Sherman

 

[gwprovost]

What I find really funny about all you measurebators is stuff like
this makes you look silly...
...
If you don't know why, then you have no business shooting with the
equipment you do or complaing about Nikon or whatever?

Is that your trashy site, or just something you find exciting? You haven't made a single positive contribution, I guess there's no reason to think that you would now.

 

[Pantanal1]

Totally agree.
Cheers,
Wes

Just curious when you think the next replacement for the D1x is
likely to be announced and where. Don't particularly want
speculation on how many pixels or how many shots per sec or any
other specs as this has been done and done.

I am as frustrated as all of you must be and just want to get a
sense of when we might likely see something. I guess I also am
wondering how long we will have to wait before we know for sure
that Nikon no longer wants to comptete on the high res pro DSLR
camera line.

I too would like to see Nikon put out a high res DLSR, but I guess
it also depends upon the price.

However Nikon DOES compete very nicely in the DLSR market....The
DSLR market that 35mm camera's complete in.

My D1x replaced my F4s quite nicely.

So the market that the 1Ds complete in is NOT really 35mm so much
as replacing MF. The new Phase I back blows the 1Ds out of the
water with 50mm MORE resolution on a chip that is MUCH larger then
the FF Canon chip.

At 30K or 16K for the 16mpix version, this is a BIG price jump.
However we are no longer discussing tools for the amateur, and a
studio can spend 30K on processing and film in a few months.

So IMO THAT is the market that huge resolution chips on a 35mm type
DSLR is attempting to compete in NOT the traditional 35mm market.

I am a little concerned that Nikon has given up on the pro level
DSLR line and simpley wants to sell to the masses at the news
photographers and pro-sumer level and below.

The D2x is a reality, and the D2H IS a pro level camera... When and
what the D2x will be remains to be seen.

The technology has evolved and there is sufficient improvements to
create a competative next level camera but Nikon has not (in this
area). If they were going to come out with something shouldn't it
have appeared by now. At this rate every major manufacturer will
have come out with a high end DSLR high resolution camera except
Nikon.

Hardly.... NO other manufacture other than Canon has a DSLR with
resolution greater than 6mpix. Nikon had a near 6mpix camera (d1x)
on the market three years ago, so Nikon was WAY ahead of the game
at that point...how quickly everyone forgets. The Foveon chip
remains 3.2 mpix, but they boast three times that amount based on
the ability to capture three colors..hmm.. Fuji has similar tactics
with the Super CCD. Both chips are good, but R they what they say
they are in the mpix bean counting department? IMO no.

I have a ton of Nikon glass that I don't want to dump at discount
prices yet and I don't want to buy a D70 or D2h.

How much longer are you going to wait?

I'm not, in fact I purchase the D1x two years ago, and have been
shooting digital ever since. I guess a better question is what RU
attempting to achieve with digital, and why are you NOT in the game
NOW?

Ron

 

[cameraman12]

I knew you didn't know anything about photography.

Those photos were done by one of the most sought after fashion photographers right now (and has been for quite some time.) As for the reason why I pointed to his pictures in this thread... well, do some research. You'll figure it out. It might be a shock to you though

Maybe you should learn a bit about photography and the business before you start telling people what camera system they should use. Or at least put more effort into that instead of these Nikon vs. Canon debates.

What I find really funny about all you measurebators is stuff like
this makes you look silly...
...
If you don't know why, then you have no business shooting with the
equipment you do or complaing about Nikon or whatever?

Is that your trashy site, or just something you find exciting? You
haven't made a single positive contribution, I guess there's no
reason to think that you would now.

 

[gwprovost]

Thats all we need... another cat shooter that needs more resolution
and ff sensor.

Any one of those "cat shooter"s you scorn is worth a dozen obnoxious blowhards in this or any other forum. Why don't you post one of your low-res non-cat shots so we can see how it's supposed to be done?

Are you even a professional photographer or do you just like
annoying people? Considering your post history and how many times
you've been called a troll recently, I wouldn't start talking about
other peoples comments. Your reputation is a little tainted.

Glad to hear you're annoyed. With you as an example I'd be ashamed to call myself a professional, though I imagine if I took every offer that was made to me I'd make more money at it than you. I wondered how long it would take you to get around to your fallback "troll" remark. That's the lame come-back from every half-wit moron on the internet who can't face up to the facts or take part intelligently in a discussion. My reputation isn't at stake here and certainly doesn't depend on any trash that comes out of your mouth.

Here it is again, in case you missed it. Nikon, because of their decision to stick with the DX sensor, will not be able to keep up with the leaders in the DSLR field. If you find that annoying or threatening or hard to deal with, take it up with Nikon.

Now, go ahead, bump this up to the top again. It's always a pleasure.

 

[gwprovost]

Those photos were done by one of the most sought after fashion
photographers right now (and has been for quite some time.) As for
the reason why I pointed to his pictures in this thread... well, do
some research. You'll figure it out. It might be a shock to you
though

I'm happy to say that I don't have time to play around with your juvenile peep-show "research". The fact that you find puerile spraddle-legged gynecological semi-porn exciting says plenty about your taste, judgment and maturity.

Maybe you should learn a bit about photography and the business
before you start telling people what camera system they should use.
Or at least put more effort into that instead of these Nikon vs.
Canon debates.

You don't have a clue about what I know about photography and business. Maybe you should study my post(s), and the question(s) that preceeded them, before you take off on a tangent to further exhibit your hostility and ignorance. You might learn something and, if not, might at least spare yourself the embarrassment of further exposing your lack of intellect.

Is there any chance you can get back on the subject? Why don't you tell us how Nikon is going to continue to compete in the DSLR field while using only the DX sensor? "Cameras are just tools" - is that it? That's your revelation for us, the unknowning? Or "megapixels don't matter" - the song of the desperate and deprived. Or have you thought up something new? Blind us with the brilliance of your intellect, o' mighty promoter of smut.

 

[gwprovost]

no text

 

[Ron Frank]

One thing that people in this forum seem to not realize is the fact that noise increases as sensor heat increases. Larger sensors, more heat, more problems.

It amazes me that such experts in mpix design don't bother to read issues that exist in REAL larger sensor design.

One thing that hinders 35mm type DSLR camera's from using HUGE sensor design already available in MF backs is that fact that most use advance cooling systems, and that requires...space..

K, anyone want to discuss this? The Canon D1s sensor is rather smallish compared to what could be done..... but dispite our love of the 1ds, most Canon owners (who trumpet FF to the sky) refuse to purchase the expensive 1ds, and beyond that, there are issues with larger sensor designs that most here seem to be rather ignorant of....

Ron

 

[robwalcott]

How long can we keep making excuses for Nikon?

Everyone has their own breaking point I guess. Mine is September.

I do enough families and large prints (16x20 or larger) to want more than 6mpx. I don't really care how they do it (FF vs DX).
Until then, I am working my hardest to make the best of every pixel
:?

 

[Ron Frank]

People ask questions, I have some education, knowledge and
experience and if I think I can help, then I answer. Any questions
I can answer for you?

Based on what I've read, you seem to like trolling and controversy...

And who gives a RIP if I don't spell well, I don't edit this what post, ;ole think it really matters??

Explain the COC? I know the answer, but please, do. While your at it relate it to DOF. After 20 years of photography, teaching, shooting professionally, and just LOVING the heck out of photography, I'm interested in how a short sighted inpatient equipment geek answers a REAL question.

Ron

 

[robwalcott]

I Only shoot jpg basic - 1840 x 1224 [M], it gives me spectacular

prints even 20x30 prints looks fantastic!

???

I shoot the d100 RAW, highest quality, and am never happy with group pictures. Am I doing something wrong? I don't even like the prints at 16x20 let alone 20x30 !?

I will have to disagree with you completely, but would (in all seriousness) love to be proved wrong. Maybe there is such thing as 'magic megapixels' from the d2h?

Im here to learn and make better prints.

 

[James McPeak]

I have the answers to all your concerns:

The D1X is good enough, and it's all you'll ever need.

The D2H is good enough, and it's all you'll ever need.

The D70 is good enough, and it's all you'll ever need.

DX sensors are good enough, and it's all you'll ever need.

And if you don't agree, you're either stupid or a troll.

The Great Wizard of 'Kon has spoken!

Happy shooting!

And pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!

Just curious when you think the next replacement for the D1x is
likely to be announced and where. Don't particularly want
speculation on how many pixels or how many shots per sec or any
other specs as this has been done and done.

I am as frustrated as all of you must be and just want to get a
sense of when we might likely see something. I guess I also am
wondering how long we will have to wait before we know for sure
that Nikon no longer wants to comptete on the high res pro DSLR
camera line.

It sort of appears that the DX lens line is intended for the D70 /
D2h line. On Ebay D1x cameras are for sale for just over a
thousand or so dollars with few bids even at that price.

I am a little concerned that Nikon has given up on the pro level
DSLR line and simpley wants to sell to the masses at the news
photographers and pro-sumer level and below. Needless to say they
will never make that announcement but at some point, might we be
able to assume that what we have been waiting so long for just is
not coming. My questioin is how long must we wait before we find
out that there really is no D2x or D3 coming.

The technology has evolved and there is sufficient improvements to
create a competative next level camera but Nikon has not (in this
area). If they were going to come out with something shouldn't it
have appeared by now. At this rate every major manufacturer will
have come out with a high end DSLR high resolution camera except
Nikon.

When the D1 split, Nikon announced the H and the X versions very
close together and then released them within a short time of one
another. Why would this offering be different if there was a D2x
in the wings?

Typically cameras like most technology devices evolve in
approximately 18 month or 2 year increments to keep sales and
competition satisfied. Where is Nikon?

DSLR sales are frequently decided on by which lenses one has
invested in. DSLR's are not just cameras but systems, it seems
likely that Nikon would not want to jeprodize losing a whole
generation of potential system customers to another brand because
the foundation of the system (the camera body) is not being made
available. All those who have gone to Canon or first time buyers
who chose Canon or what ever will never go to Nikonbecause they
will own other companies glass. Every day hundreds of others
around the world are making a decision which system to invest in
for high res camera system potential are chosing another maker of
cameras because they are afraid Nikon will not be competative in
the future.

If they are to be competative for the future they must release
something soon to tell those who are spending (lots of) money on
lenses and accessories that there will be a steady flow of new
technology as it becomes available. i am not seening this and i am
becoming ever more skeptical.

I have a ton of Nikon glass that I don't want to dump at discount
prices yet and I don't want to buy a D70 or D2h.

How much longer are you going to wait?
--
Scott Sherman
http://www.interactivephotos.com

 

[Ron Frank]

Ron, I often enjoy your posts, but I've gotta say that you're
making very little sense here.

Well, grasshopper... be the camera!!!

This entire post assumes that Nikon and Canon are in a tennis match.

Ummmm....could you please show me another 35mm player that is
anywhere near the level of these two? Bodies, lenses, flash,
etc--they've been competing for years, constantly trying to out-do
each other, with no one else even close? Maybe you'd prefer a
different metaphore/analogy, but the priniciple is still the same:
They're the only two in the game, and they're fiercely competing.

Hardly. Kodak INVENTED digital. Sinar/Phase One/ Imicon/ they IMO R the players in big sensor implementation.

Who cares about the 35mm players, that's not where the engineering is.

But my tennis match analogy means, this is NOT a quick game.

Why does it matter when they started? They're unable to currently
compete with the competition's top offerings, and have been unable
to for close to a couple years now.

How do you know that?

Nikon could have announced a FF sensor DSLR at 12 mpix within a few months of Canon. The question becomes, is that wise?

The D1s is a VERY interesting price point, but one that CAN NOT live well for long in the 35mm DSLR market. Let's face it, most Canon owners do NOT own the 1ds. Most MF shooter have NOT adopted the 1ds. It's at a price point where anyone who can afford it, would most likely be best off spending 20K+ on a MF back.

The 1ds competes in a different market vs. 35mm type DSLR camera's.

of the current stuff, of which we're all familiar. It's about the
future. And so far, they're getting their butts kicked.

Hmmm, there are FF 4x5 sensors out there. If this is just about mpix, Canon is not even in the game.

If you are unhappy with Nikon for whatever reason, buy a different
TOOL!!!

Much cheaper said than done. Is it so much to ask that Nikon stay
competative? It's not that what they have doesn't work. It's that
more is possible, and I think it's fair for it to be expected. INO,
Canon users are getting more more return on their glass. Why is it
so wrong to ask/expect Nikon to do the same?

Please explain what you NEED that you don't have in Nikon? And then explain WHY if you NEED this, you have not Switched?

THEY R JUST TOOLS!!! If you need Dewalt, but you have Craftsman, what choice is there?

It's about retrun on investment. I've invested in Nikon, and
they've let me down. If I could do it over again, I wouldn't be
here, and you wouldn't have to hear me. But I expected Nikon to
remain competative, to give me at least a somewhat comparable
return on my investment. They haven't. They aren't even in the same
league right now.

What investment? Invest in Canon, and shaddup... OR wait.

I'm curious...as always...what do you need in a DSLR that the D1x or the D2h or the D70 does NOT offer???

Seriously, pro's make a daily living with Nikon, so WHAT is missing in your life, and have you explored ALL the printing options of going BIG with 35mm DLSR's.

The irony is that the 1dS does NOT compete with MF film well from a usage standpoint.....

Ron

 

[Ron Frank]

The interisting thing about this ENTIRE thread is that most are either in the Canon or Nikon Camp....

Hey...I'm in the FUTURE camp....

I've been beating heads with MF bigots for a decade over IF 35mm is EVEN a viable format for weddings. And I shoot 35mm, MF AND LF ( or have).

Now I beat heads with 35mm DSLR shoots over mpix's... 35mm DSLR camera's have brilliant design in MANY areas.

But the fact is there are little brained in the mpix wars... so why does anyone here bother?

MF film remains the choice in much of the big buck fashion and wedding industry. You guys get this..right? If you doubt it, the 2004 SI Swim suit shot is the FIRST to use ANY digital for publication, but ONLY one of many photographers used that medium (1Ds BTW), and THESE GUYS are DIGITAL sports shooter!!! Get a CLUE??

Ron

 

[robwalcott]

cameraman12,

I think it is safe to say that your point is that you believe that technology is only a tool to further the creative process - and I agree.

There are loads of great artists who work with polaroids cameras and p/s cameras - including disposable cameras. It only makes sense that the same will be done with digital. I have followed Terry Richards work, and I agree that it is very good (yet very controversial).

THERE IS MORE TO GOOD PICTURES THAN PRINT QUALITY (I am sorry for shouting, but there is no way to underline ). Yet photographers like Ansel Adams are well known for their print quality, and though I don't care for his work at all, he certainly deserves credit for what he accomplished.

In short, maybe I can add a grain of salt to your comment by agreeing with you that there is a lot of really technical crappy work out there, and great pictures are not taken by great cameras, but by great minds and eyes... though great cameras make great tools for great minds and eyes.

 

[Don Karner]

The irony is that the 1dS does NOT compete with MF film well from a
usage standpoint.....

Ron

Could I ask you to comment further here. In what ways does the 1Ds NOT compete with MF. I am seriously asking.

I have 2 MF outfits and am chewing my lip thinking about the 1Ds. Do you have a feeling that I would be disppointed??
Thanks for any comment....
--
Ol' Don in Broken Arrow

 

[steveTQP]

How long can we keep making excuses for Nikon? When do we say,
Nikon is done with high resolution DSLR camera body because they
could not keep up with the competition? Do not wait for Nikon to
make this announcement. If they did, the current D1x and all DSLR
Nikons would be worthless. If they are out of this line, it will
come not with a bang. It will come with the wimpers of those of us
who waited and waited and waited and waited and waited and waited.

Scott Sherman

Scott, you make some great points, and your history of Nikon marketing is commendable! However, I disagree with one point...that ..."the current D1x and all DSLR Nikons would be worthless..."

My opinion is that no matter what camera does or does not appear in the future, this does NOT make one's D1x or other DSLR "worthless", because these cameras STILL will produce the quality images that their owner is capable of with that particular model! True, I too, like to keep up with technology, and would love to be able to acquire the best that technology has to offer. But alas, I must make do with what I can afford, and must work within the limitations of my existing camera. However, I still can make pretty decent images, even though it is not the latest and greatest DSLR!

Thank you anyway, for your other fine points. Here's hoping that Nikon does indeed bring out a 1DMKII equivalent or better.
Regards,
Steve
--
Steve Solomon
[email protected]